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[Succinct Verbosity]

As a Jew, I am afraid to go to England or France due to anti-semitism. I wanna go to France so bad, but fear keeps me away.

Anti-semitism can be found anywhere though, like most forms of bigotry, discrimination, and hate.

Living in Britain, I am having a very hard time seeing the rise of anti-semitism. Admittedly, I'm not Jewish, but I haven't seen any sentiment of hatred towards the Jewish religion rise... I can't even recall a time it has been brought up. Of course, it's possible it's a regional issue, but it is in no way, shape or form indicative of my experiences in my fairly large city.

 

[Nuu]

No, but you have to question the motive of bringing up the hypothetical future plight of Palestinians in a thread that is about European Jewish emigration to Israel solely due to a massive increase in hate crimes and antisemitism against them.

If your sole comment is 'those poor Palestinians', it touches on the very point raised, that Jews around the world, especially in western Europe are blamed for the policies/actions of the government of Israel.

That isn't what he likely meant at all. It was probably a drive by comment that a few of those Jews could push more Israelis to start more settlements.

 

[Cheesecakebobby]

That isn't what he likely meant at all. It was probably a drive by comment that a few of those Jews could push more Israelis to start more settlements.

That would still be under an assumption that Western Jews inherently want to oppress Palestinians. Watch out Palestinians, more evil Jews are on their way! It's as bad as saying 'poor white women' when hearing that Muslims are fleeing the Middle East to Europe.

The drive by post also perfectly illustrates my point that there is a growing tendancy to not care as much about antisemitism as anti-Muslim bigotry.

 

[Xenus]

It's like you didn't read the article. Even in the US, despite being 2% or less of the population, 63% of religion based hate crimes happen against Jewish persons.

How long of a time period is this over? Because I feel like since 9/11 America is far more slanted against Muslims then any other religion.

 

[justjohn]

Huh? I really dont see it. Far worse to be muslim or even black in europe right now. Not downplaying it just dont think its really that bad to make them move.

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

How long of a time period is this over? Because I feel like since 9/11 America is far more slanted against Muslims then any other religion.

You would think this, but the FBI releases figures for every year.

Here is 2014's figures for reference. Every year on record more religious hate attacks are against Jews in the US than every other group combined.

 

[S-Wind]

So feeling bad for Palestinains is "antisemitism" now?

Apparently.

I thought it's pretty fucked up that criticizing the actions of Israel of tends get one labelled as an Anti-Semite (how did it came to be the the Jews manage to co-opt the label of Semite anyway?), but now feeling pity for the shitty predicament of the Palestinians is enough to get that label thrown at you as well.

As if anti-Semites have a shit about Palestinians!

More Jews immigrating to Israel will result in more land getting stolen from the Palestinians for illegal settlements.

 

[Madness]

How long of a time period is this over? Because I feel like since 9/11 America is far more slanted against Muslims then any other religion.

That's from the FBI UCR report from 2014 alone. Just highlights the difference between what people think and what the reality is. So if it's that bad in the US, you can see why a lot of Jews in France, the UK, Germany feel this way.

 

[Xenus]

That's from the FBI UCR report from 2014 alone. Just highlights the difference between what people think and what the reality is. So if it's that bad in the US, you can see why a lot of Jews in France, the UK, Germany feel this way.

Something's off about those numbers reading the report. Only 6800 hate crimes in the entire US? With racial tensions as high as they are in some area's along with anti-islamic sentiment going on calling them all terrorists?

According to those stats only roughly 150 anti-islamic hate crimes existed in the whole US in 2014. I guess it could be an issue of reporting vs actual happening but still a lot of those numbers seem really really low and portray most of the US as some 1950's perfect suburb.

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

Something's off about those numbers reading the report. Only 6800 hate crimes in the entire US? With racial tensions as high as they are in some area's along with anti-islamic sentiment going on calling them all terrorists?

According to those stats only roughly 150 anti-islamic hate crimes existed in the whole US in 2014. I guess it could be an issue of reporting vs actual happening but still a lot of those numbers seem really really low and portray most of the US as some 1950's perfect suburb.

Islamophobia isn't as widespread as you, and others, seem to believe it should be. The numbers are consistent with previous years and show anti-muslim hate crimes are low, particularly in relation to anti-black/gay/jew hate crimes.

That's all another topic though.

 

[Nuu]

Something's off about those numbers reading the report. Only 6800 hate crimes in the entire US? With racial tensions as high as they are in some area's along with anti-islamic sentiment going on calling them all terrorists?

According to those stats only roughly 150 anti-islamic hate crimes existed in the whole US in 2014. I guess it could be an issue of reporting vs actual happening but still a lot of those numbers seem really really low and portray most of the US as some 1950's perfect suburb.

There are almost 800 active hate groups in the United States.

Groups that focus on being anti-Muslim double that of anti-Jew.
Though to be fair I assume Neo-Nazis and White Nationalist likely have Jews on their plate as well, especially the former.

 

[MisterFalcon]

How long of a time period is this over? Because I feel like since 9/11 America is far more slanted against Muslims then any other religion.

That's been a very effective campaign by muslim organizations to claim massive persecution. A headline like this:

Anti-Muslim hate crimes are still five times more common today than before 9/11

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...five-times-more-common-today-than-before-911/

Horrible, right ? Until you look at the raw numbers, in 2000 there were 28 anti-islamic hate crimes against 1109 anti-jewish. An extremely low number to start and good to report a huge increase. Anti-jewish hate crimes still vastly outnumber anti-muslim ones both in the US and Europe, both in absolute and relative numbers.
There is also the severity of the crime which may get lost in statistics that treat 'slogan painted on mosque' as 1 and 'five jews gunned down by jihadists' also as 1 hate crime.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

The Jewish Agency sounds like propaganda trying to get the Jewish diaspora to migrate to Israel, lol

In what world is Israel safer than France or UK (or most of the West)?

This, seriously. I've not noticed a shred of rising anti-semitism here in the UK over years. Where as islamaphobia is becoming rife. Just where is this publication pulling the facts from? Doesn't sound right to me.

 

[Jotaka]

Jewish Agency for Israel

It is best known as the primary organization responsible for the immigration ("Aliyah") and absorption of Jews and their families from the Diaspora into Israel

The whole purpose of the agency is to bring more people to Israel... yeah no agenda lol

 

[Bananajama]

Haven't seen a shred of rising anti-semitism here in England.

And currently working with one who is a Good lad. Only thing I don't get is his humour!

 

[Xenus]

Islamophobia isn't as widespread as you, and others, seem to believe it should be. The numbers are consistent with previous years and show anti-muslim hate crimes are low, particularly in relation to anti-black/gay/jew hate crimes.

That's all another topic though.

It's not just muslim that seems low. I'm saying all those numbers seem really low in general considering the the issues in US going on and the size of the population.

There are almost 800 active hate groups in the United States.

Groups that focus on being anti-Muslim double that of anti-Jew.
Though to be fair I assume Neo-Nazis and White Nationalist likely have Jews on their plate as well, especially the former.

Well Neo Nazi's are anti-jew for obvious reasons. The KKK tends to be anti anyone who isn't white. But now we're veering of into nebulous are the numbers right and if they aren't are the percentages rite but the numbers wrong which is something we can't really know one way or the other.

 

[Joni]

If you are afraid of Muslims attacking you, is Israël really the best place to be?

 

[Bollocks]

If you are afraid of Muslims attacking you, is Israël really the best place to be?

They at least have a big wall preventing Muslims from entering the country, compare that to Europe which is currently being flooded by Muslims and continues to do so

 

[Joni]

They at least have a big wall preventing Muslims from entering the country, compare that to Europe which is currently being flooded by Muslims and continues to do so

Europe on the other hand isn't hit with rockets every day.

 

[Jumeira]

Islamophobia isn't as widespread as you, and others, seem to believe it should be. The numbers are consistent with previous years and show anti-muslim hate crimes are low, particularly in relation to anti-black/gay/jew hate crimes.

That's all another topic though.

This is not true, not only is islamaphobia on the rise, its become acceptable position to hold, and parts of popular media thrive on fuling anti Muslim hate. Ive not witnessed the same bombardment of anti semtic views by the media. People have been killed for being Muslim in UK recently and France, read this report on the rise in the UK, its a big problem.

http://tellmamauk.org/wp-content/uploads/resources/We Fear For Our Lives.pdf

 

[Bollocks]

Neither is Israel but at least people are not subjected to hate crimes like in Europe

 

[Buba Big Guns]

They at least have a big wall preventing Muslims from entering the country, compare that to Europe which is currently being flooded by Muslims and continues to do so

Isnt a huge percentage of Israel muslim. It's also the fastest growing religion there.

 

[Kathian]

Neither is Israel but at least people are not subjected to hate crimes like in Europe

Right. Israelis are not victims of hate crimes. Please Google; am not doing it for you.

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

This, seriously. I've not noticed a shred of rising anti-semitism here in the UK over years. Where as islamaphobia is becoming rife. Just where is this publication pulling the facts from? Doesn't sound right to me.

You may not have noticed rising anti-semitism in the UK, but it's a fact.

Islamophobia is also on the rise in the UK but is given more attention.

This is the biggest problem the Jews have - few seem to care of our plight. This breeds a feeling of hopelessness and of fear, which unsurprisingly leads to increased aliyah. Yes living in Israel is dangerous, here, as there, we have religious nutcases trying to kill us, but it's an infinitely better situation on the whole.

Isnt a huge percentage of Israel muslim. It's also the fastest growing religion there.

Not "huge", but not insignificant either. About 1.3 million of 8 million. Hareidi/Ultra-Orthodox Jews are technically the fastest growing sector.

This is not true, not only is islamaphobia on the rise, its become acceptable position to hold, and parts of popular media thrive on fuling anti Muslim hate. Ive not witnessed the same bombardment of anti semtic views by the media. People have been killed for being Muslim in UK recently and France, read this report on the rise in the UK, its a big problem.

http://tellmamauk.org/wp-content/uploads/resources/We Fear For Our Lives.pdf

I was talking specifically about Islamophobia in the US.

 

[Joel Was Right]

The interesting thing to note is that there are people within those persecuted groups who themselves hold prejudices against other minorities.

 

[MisterFalcon]

http://tellmamauk.org/wp-content/uploads/resources/We Fear For Our Lives.pdf

Interesting how the ones who carry out islamist terror attacks are just pretending to be muslims or are identified by their nationality while any victim is 100% muslim. Islam, always a victim and never the perpetrator.

Terrorist attacks carried out by individuals who identify themselves as being Muslim or acting in the name of Islam – such as
the Woolwich attack, the atrocities committed by ISIS and attacks around the world
such as in Sydney, the Charlie Hebdo attack in Paris, and in Copenhagen and
Tunisia – induced a significant increase in participants’ online and offline anti-Muslim
hate crime experiences. Additionally, national scandals such as the child sexual
exploitation in Rotherham by groups of Pakistani men

 

[More Fun To Compute]

The interesting thing to note is that there are people within those persecuted groups who themselves hold prejudices against other minorities.

Everybody is in some persecuted group or another. The ones who make the biggest deal politically about being persecuted are white Christian conservatives.

 

[Roufianos]

Living here in London all my life, I've come to the conclusion that people actually consider it socially acceptable to mock Jews. I've seen it hundreds of times at school, college, uni, work, social gatherings and even in public.

And it's not just people of an Arabic origin who do it.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Living here in London all my life, I've come to the conclusion that people actually consider it socially acceptable to mock Jews. I've seen it hundreds of times at school, college, uni, work, social gatherings and even in public.

And it's not just people of an Arabic origin who do it.

Mock in what way? Can you give some examples.

 

[kruis]

I thought Anti-Semitism was semi wiped out in the West given its suicidal side effects. If you're an anti semite you can kiss your public image good bye.

It's come back now there's a sizable number of muslim immigrants in western Europe. This has been the case for at least two decades now in the Netherlands. Young immigrants don't give a rat's ass about public image. That's why there have been recurring reports about the difficulties teachers face when they want to talk about the holocaust in class with many muslim pupils, that's why Jewish schools often have security, that's why Jewish men would rather not walk around in Amsterdam wearing a yarmulke, etc. Young Moroccan males in particular have a reputation for being anti-Jewish and not afraid to make that opinion known.

 

[Cromat]

Bringing up the Palestinian issue in a thread about antisemitism is the same as mentioning black crime in a thread about racism. It's basically victim blaming. Whatever your position about the policies of the Israeli government, that does not excuse any acts of hate against random Jews or Israelis for that matter.

My anecdotal contribution is to say that I've never encountered nor heard of any major problems in the UK, but I did hear several horror stories about France. A friend of mine lived in Paris with his family and they were quite establishment and well-off, with no intention of leaving. When he was around 14 he and a friend were beaten on the Metro with people yelling slurs at them for being Jewish so they all moved to Israel.

Israel isn't a terribly safe place these days but at the same time it does have a higher life expectancy than the UK so on average it's not that bad I guess (I am aware that this is not a proper comparison).

 

[Nuu]

Well Neo Nazi's are anti-jew for obvious reasons. The KKK tends to be anti anyone who isn't white. But now we're veering of into nebulous are the numbers right and if they aren't are the percentages rite but the numbers wrong which is something we can't really know one way or the other.

The entire point of my post was to illustrate how unreliable the "statistics" are. There are far more hate crimes committed per year than a few thousand.

More proof that hate crimes data is bollocks.

I highly doubt that Oregon has that many more hate crime incidents than Mississippi which only had ONE hate crime reported in the entire state.

Not saying that Jews don't come across hate crimes, but the official data underestimates hate crimes for all demographics hugely to the point where it is inaccurate.

 

[Jumeira]

Interesting how the ones who carry out islamist terror attacks are just pretending to be muslims or are identified by their nationality while any victim is 100% muslim. Islam, always a victim and never the perpetrator.

You seem to be confused with Islam and Islamism

 

[Nervous Sausage]

You may not have noticed rising anti-semitism in the UK, but it's a fact.

Islamophobia is also on the rise in the UK but is given more attention.

This is the biggest problem the Jews have - few seem to care of our plight. This breeds a feeling of hopelessness and of fear, which unsurprisingly leads to increased aliyah. Yes living in Israel is dangerous, here, as there, we have religious nutcases trying to kill us, but it's an infinitely better situation on the whole.

I don't live in the UK and I'm sure there are many areas that are absolutely fine but from what I've seen lately, I share your concern. The thing that really bothers me is the media and the left are more concerned with Islamophobia when such a thing (and I don't think that word is even appropriate) only exists as a secondary symptom of the main issue which is the clashing of two wildly different and incompatible cultures and the refusal of a good portion of Muslims to fully integrate combined with the inherent incompatibility of Islam and sharia within a democratic society.

It would be great if we could all hold hands and co-exist but the sad reality is that this just isn't an option for many Muslims. You also couldn't draw a clearer distinction if you tried with the increasing Muslim population in the UK (and Europe) and the rising anti-semitism. Do all Muslims hate Jews? No of course not but a large enough population of them do to make life hell for these people and it will probably only get worse.

 

[MisterFalcon]

You seem to be confused with Islam and Islamism

Sorry for even contemplating the thought muslims could do hate crimes motivated by their religion. It's all false flags and Pakistanis.

 

[Renekton]

Living in Britain, I am having a very hard time seeing the rise of anti-semitism. Admittedly, I'm not Jewish, but I haven't seen any sentiment of hatred towards the Jewish religion rise... I can't even recall a time it has been brought up. Of course, it's possible it's a regional issue, but it is in no way, shape or form indicative of my experiences in my fairly large city.

Maybe that's why.

 

[petran79]

TBH it's a shame these people aren't coming to the United States. That kind of skilled labor is pretty beneficial, and we obviously have an excellent history of integrating Jewish immigrants.

Things were not so smooth there either. There were quotas for the entry of Jews in universities for a while

 

[Lucky_Se7enty]

Sorry for even contemplating the thought muslims could do hate crimes motivated by their religion. It's all false flags and Pakistanis.

I'm pretty sure Islam doesn't tell you to get underage white girls addicted to drugs and alcohol and then take them. What do all the abuse gangs and majority of extremists have in common? They always Pakistani / Bangladeshi. These communities have serious issues.

 

[Xenus]

The entire point of my post was to illustrate how unreliable the "statistics" are. There are far more hate crimes committed per year than a few thousand.

More proof that hate crimes data is bollocks.


I highly doubt that Oregon has that many more hate crime incidents than Mississippi which only had ONE hate crime reported in the entire state.

Not saying that Jews don't come across hate crimes, but the official data underestimates hate crimes for all demographics hugely to the point where it is inaccurate.

No problem as I said in a previous post I had serious doubts about those numbers. You just backed it up with actual data. But as I said it's hard to tell whether or not the numbers are wrong and the percentages are still in the ball park or it's a lot of junk data.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

I don't live in the UK and I'm sure there are many areas that are absolutely fine but from what I've seen lately, I share your concern. The thing that really bothers me is the media and the left are more concerned with Islamophobia when such a thing (and I don't think that word is even appropriate) only exists as a secondary symptom of the main issue which is the clashing of two wildly different and incompatible cultures and the refusal of a good portion of Muslims to fully integrate combined with the inherent incompatibility of Islam and sharia within a democratic society.

It would be great if we could all hold hands and co-exist but the sad reality is that this just isn't an option for many Muslims. You also couldn't draw a clearer distinction if you tried with the increasing Muslim population in the UK (and Europe) and the rising anti-semitism. Do all Muslims hate Jews? No of course not but a large enough population of them do to make life hell for these people and it will probably only get worse.

Not sure you can lay the unwillingness to co-exist solely at the feet of Muslims.

And I wouldn't say all Jewish people are willing to integrate either with stories of women being told not to drive, not to walk on certain sides of the road, etc.

 

[jimbobsmells]

So feeling bad for Palestinains is "antisemitism" now?

You haven't encountered cheescake before I guess?

 

[Jumeira]

Sorry for even contemplating the thought muslims could do hate crimes motivated by their religion. It's all false flags and Pakistanis.

It would be far more of an issue than it currently is if that were true don't you think. Rotten minds can do and will do what they like.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

I can understand Muslims hating Jews, it is their thing.

But why are educated modern white people still anti-semitic?

What the hell

 

[phisheep]

It's like you didn't read the article. Even in the US, despite being 2% or less of the population, 63% of religion based hate crimes happen against Jewish persons.

I don't find that at all surprising (or, indeed, particularly worrying), since there is a very small proportion of the US population that is potentially the subject of religion-based hate crimes to start with.

According to Pew Research, 71% of America is Christian of one sort or another, 23% atheist/agnostic/don't care and about 6% minority religions. Of these, there's only three (I think) that sometimes be distinguished by sight usually because of dress conventions - that's Jews (1.9%), Muslims (0.9%) and Sikhs (so few they are not categorised in the Pew data). I don't know about you, but I'd be hard-pressed to identify a buddhist or a hindu by sight.

So I'd kind of expect, given that there are religious hate crime, for about two-thirds of them to be against Jews and one-third against Muslims - which is what the figures show.

That's not to excuse the crimes of course. Hate crime of any sort is bad, as is any crime. But there's nothing here to suggest that Jews are disproportionately at risk in the USA.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

Muslims hating Jews?
Islam forbids Hating other religions especially Judaism and Christianity, Even cursing them is Forbidden and I heard that from the Mecca Mufti.
He'll many Jews were under sanctuary during the Muslim conquest since some were prosecuted by Christian, in Andalusia Jews were fighting in Muslims armies.

It's Zionism that current Muslims hate but I wouldn't put it past some mixing the two.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

As a Jew, I am afraid to go to England or France due to anti-semitism. I wanna go to France so bad, but fear keeps me away.

Anti-semitism can be found anywhere though, like most forms of bigotry, discrimination, and hate.

As a englishman, you are being ridiculous.

There is far more anti immeigration racism, homophobia, anti-islamic fear mongering than anti-semitism.

I wouldnt agree with those groups being afraid to come here either.

In most areas in the UK the worst you will experience is someone slightly ribbing your skullcap.

 

[Kinokou]

I can't say that I notice any kind of discrimination, discomfort, fear or hatred towards Jews in my day to day life, outside of the rare news report that sources antisemitism as a motivation for an attack or crime. On the other hand I see all of the above ascribed to muslims at least once a week, if not even more often.

I'll be reading this thread later to get some insights as I genuinely don't get why someone would be discriminatory towards Jews in our day and age.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

I remember my brother did a student exchange with Israel before. They went there for 2 weeks, then the ones from Israel came for 2 weeks.

4 or 5 of the 10 people who came were scared to go to a doctor, because they are scared they will gas them. They were scared germans will attack them on the street and kill them. 3 had to be send back because of that paraonoia.

 

[michaelius]

It is pretty much a Muslim thing.

Not only but in case of ethic europeans it's mostly verbal anti-semitism or devastation of graves.

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

Not sure you can lay the unwillingness to co-exist solely at the feet of Muslims.

And I wouldn't say all Jewish people are willing to integrate either with stories of women being told not to drive, not to walk on certain sides of the road, etc.

Reads like victim blaming.

Muslims hating Jews?
Islam forbids Hating other religions especially Judaism and Christianity, Even cursing them is Forbidden and I heard that from the Mecca Mufti.
He'll many Jews were under sanctuary during the Muslim conquest since some were prosecuted by Christian, in Andalusia Jews were fighting in Muslims armies.

It's Zionism that current Muslims hate but I wouldn't put it past some mixing the two.

That's a nice interpretation that isn't shared by many of the Muslim faith and arguably contradicts many statements of the Quran.

The whole thing is meaningless though. In the real world antisemitism is swelling year-on-year. In the real world, Muslim youths can chant "hamas, hamas, Jews to the gas!" at Ajax supporters and at rallys with impunity. In the real world, Jews just don't feel safe and, frankly wanted, in Europe any more.

I left, my family left. My Synagogue that had over 2000 members in 80s now has dwindled to under 100. This is a unique phenomenon that is happening mostly because anti-semitism is being ignored or palmed off with victim blaming and whataboutisms.

As a englishman, you are being ridiculous.

There is far more anti immeigration racism, homophobia, anti-islamic fear mongering than anti-semitism.

I wouldnt agree with those groups being afraid to come here either.

In most areas in the UK the worst you will experience is someone slightly ribbing your skullcap.

As an Englishman and a Jew, I've experienced much worse and don't know a single English Jew who hasn't his own similar story. The figures don't lie.