Are Western Devs the worst they have ever been these days or am I just having a bitter old man hot take?

Anyone who tells you that they aren't is trying to gaslight you just like Hollywood was gaslighting us around 2020 by calling anyone who was noticing the enshittification of movies and shows negative, crazy, racist, sexist and so on

Not only Western games are becoming worse and worse but even well-respected Western devs are quickly becoming shit, surprisingly including many indie studios
 
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Not sure what you mean

GOTY this year will probably be a french game

Every market produces slop, look at that Solo Levelling game
 
Dr. Samuel Hayden said:
Once again I'm just gonna leave this here...



Compare to the shit we get now and it's a total joke.
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jeez i mean when Dead Island is your only middling game in the list you know you have something special.

and while the PS3 started slow it also reached those levels too.

man good times, glad i was alive around then, sucked i wasn't old enough to be working and paying for most those games, but we all use to loan and visit each other and plan our games so it all worked out in the end.
 
Estimated 80% of my favorite games these days are western made. I guess we just have different opinions 🤷‍♂️

Interestingly enough (for me), Elden Ring and KCD2 are the absolute best two games on my recent playlist.
 
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Generic said:
But Expedition 33 is a western game.
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I know that.
Hypereides said:
I'm on the team that echoes that American AAA developers are the ones who are limping atm. Euro developers are still bringing in their A-game, for the most part, while diversifying their output in all sorts of individualist ways. American indies have proven they still got some creative spark in them too.

AAA overall is in a dire creative slump though and someone has to start shaking up the c-suite upstairs to make them realise that this isn't going to go well. They got some fierce competition sneaking up on them. It doesn't help that they for some reason believed that employing people with activist-like tendencies, while pushing out talent with long time experience and instituional knowledge, was a good call. Its made them weaker creatively.

Honestly, its about time they step up their game and show they're supposed to be "frontrunning leaders" of this industry as well as why they managed to establish themselves in the first place. Smearing yourself with a "high fidelity make up" isn't going to cut it anymore. They're in dire need of people with strong imaginative minds and worldbuilding skills.


I have to agree with the bolded. Much of what comes out of Western-American AAA in particular right now feels so... "manufactured". It simply exists for the sake of it. Not because it was meant to. There's a certain lack of "personal touch" in many of those games.
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Yup. And coupling with "infantile" everything, it just leads to non-compelling slop.

To your point about creatives, man, those folks are long gone. Most creatives I ever met, don't thrive in corpo world. So many of these big developers now are simply that, corporations focused on the bottom line and shareholders. Creatives move on from this.
 
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Dacvak said:
This is it 100%. It very much feels like western games are guided by executives trying to chase trends, as opposed to individual designers chasing a vision. So it's not surprising that most of the games feel extremely homogenized.

Man, do I miss the 360 era.
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The irony here is that much of the homogenization that we see now had its seeds planted way back in the 7th gen. We're just now beginning to see the consequences of those choices sprout to the surface. The non-gaming suits such as Zelnick, Wilson, Guillemot and Kotick really accelerated that into full gear.
 
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Replace Western devs with all devs and creators of every medium and you are correct. Everything absolutely blows today from movies, music, TV and videogames. Hell even user generated content online sucks. "Mods" used to be total conversions, the likes of which spawned entire genres like Counter-Strike and DotA. What happened to the world? Where did all the talent and creativity go? Why is everything going to shit?
 
ahahaha mario kart world totk annnnd fzerogx derstoy western gameplay im sorry my friends i must go hibernite and play now gigabowser they will say he is the spirit of gaming saved gaming

discoverywildlifepark-berkley.gif
 
Generic said:
But Expedition 33 is a western game.
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It wasnt made/pitched in the offices/shareholders meeting like 90% of western trash currently is...

Top heads at dev studio gotta be veteran devs and gamers, not suits only looking if excel is in the red or in the black, game has to have a soul in the first place.
 
lol the west is making a fuck ton of money, they'll be just fine, unless some of you just assume folks just stopped playing COD, AC, GTA etc.

This sounds like a bitter old man hot take.

Not liking something doesn't mean others stopped playing and i've noticed this sorta tone deaf desperation of folks acting as if the west is some how in this danger and then have no explanation on why some of those fucking IP are moving record units.

The best selling games right now on PSN


Best selling on XB


Best Selling On Steam

store.steampowered.com

Steam Search

store.steampowered.com store.steampowered.com


So...I think the west will be just fine. If COD, GTA and AC all flopped then shit, many someone has a point, but those IP are at the literal highest in their entire histories right now
 
2 or 3 great games does not make up for years of majority failures and mediocre garbage downward spiral of western devs in general.
 
T4keD0wN said:
European games are better than ever
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Sorry, but no.

There was a time in which Europe delivered banger after banger, from the Batman: Arkham trilogy to Battlefield 3 and 4 or the Bad Company duology, from MotorStorm and DriveClub to Burnout Paradise and Criterion's Need for Speed games, from Mad Max and Dying Light to Hitman and Wolfenstein: The New Colossus, from The Witcher 2 and 3 to Mafia II, from Inside to Resogun, from Payday to The Division, from Killzone 2 to Crysis, from Alan Wake to Heavy Rain, from Mirror's Edge to Metro 2033 and Last Light, from Dishonored to Remember Me, from a MediaMolecule that released games to a Lionhead that ran wild under Peter Molyneux's command.
 
Everyone and their mother got greelit to start their own studio and these studios don't have enough talent and resources to make modern games.

It's not limited to western developers either. I saw just as many janky generic looking Japanese games at that showcase too.

The industry is too spread thin. It's turning the majority of games into shovelware.
 
Dr. Samuel Hayden said:
Once again I'm just gonna leave this here...



Compare to the shit we get now and it's a total joke.
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Dude... this is brutal. I remember playing Left 4 Dead 2 on my Xbox 360 with splitscreen and blow my mind, while current gen not only play some games with splitscreeen. Kinda nuts the retrocess gaming got those days.
 
I remember way back in the old days when American developers couldn't hold a candle to Japanese development. Then it switched, switched back switched again, and now we're back to American developers by and large making crap.

And I'm not too worried. All these layoffs are a functional purge of the bad hiring mistakes these studios and publishers made over the past decade. The industry can only sustain so many AAA nine-figure flops before they'have to get back to games about tits and guns.
 
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I didn't think it was that bad. There were a few games that appealed to me (e.g., Clockwork Rev). Some of them weren't particularly groundbreaking (e.g., Resonance, the Indy DLC), but that doesn't mean they won't be fun/entertaining. Not everything needs to break the mold.

I understand what you're getting at, though. There is definitely a "sameness" to a lot of the games - a lot of repetitive themes, worlds, combat styles, and character types. I'm not sure how unique that is to videogames, though. I have that same reaction to most modern commercial fiction, most movies, and most TV. I think I've grown accustomed to it, so I just take it for granted now.
 
EDMIX said:
lol the west is making a fuck ton of money, they'll be just fine, unless some of you just assume folks just stopped playing COD, AC, GTA etc.

This sounds like a bitter old man hot take.

Not liking something doesn't mean others stopped playing and i've noticed this sorta tone deaf desperation of folks acting as if the west is some how in this danger and then have no explanation on why some of those fucking IP are moving record units.

The best selling games right now on PSN


Best selling on XB


Best Selling On Steam

store.steampowered.com

Steam Search

store.steampowered.com store.steampowered.com


So...I think the west will be just fine. If COD, GTA and AC all flopped then shit, many someone has a point, but those IP are at the literal highest in their entire histories right now
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Thick Americans buying shit American games

Your point?
 
Walliwallipaloo said:
I agree with your sentiment, but frikkin' China? Please, man, understand that everything in China is political, tied directly to its totalitarian ruling party.

But believe me, Japan's cultural independence has been noted, and steps are being taken to correct this issue. They are as we speak under assault from the same subversives that have ruined American culture and media expression.
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Yeah, saying Chinese developers don't do "political" is pretty wild. There are literal CCP commissars in most large companies (so Tencent as an example). And Chinese devs won't touch a ton of different topics and scenarios because they don't want to disappear one night.
 
Fake said:
Dude... this is brutal. I remember playing Left 4 Dead 2 on my Xbox 360 with splitscreen and blow my mind, while current gen not only play some games with splitscreeen. Kinda nuts the retrocess gaming got those days.
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I remember the reveal of Left 4 Dead 2 caused a huge backlash because everyone was expecting years of support for the first but then Gaben decided to release a sequel just 1 year later.

These video are full of revisionism. The most common sentiment in internet boards back then was that western devs sucked because they only cared about brown dudebro shooters and multiplayer.
 
nemiroff said:
Estimated 80% of my favorite games these days are western made. I guess we just have different opinions 🤷‍♂️

Interestingly enough (for me), Elden Ring and KCD2 are the absolute best two games on my recent playlist.
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I have a feeling when people say "Western", they mean US studios. There are multiple great games that have come out from European studios in recent years… Ubisoft being the notable exception.
 
Kacho said:
Western studios still put out good games but it's nothing like during the 360 era. Nowadays it's like they're copying each other's notes. A lot of stuff looks identical to the next.

Indies and Japanese games are where it's at.
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The 360 era sucked with western developers all using piss filters and characters looking like plastic due to using en mass, the terrible UE3.
 
It's not just you. I'm more interested n the new RGG game "Stranger Than Heaven" and that new Korean game "Mudang Two Hearts" from the Xbox showcase than 90% of all other Western games shown.
 
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It's the homogenization (and corporatization) of everything.

Boil everything down to least offensive, most accessible, widest audience. A game for everyone is a game for no one.

It's become fast food - Sony is McDonald's Xbox is Burger King, Nintendo is Wendy's.

Sure there are differences but at the end of the day Western dev has become slightly different variations of a burger and fries. Maybe throw in some chicken nuggets or a "healthy" wrap.

Scientifically engineered to keep you fat and happy, but rarely satisfied and slowly killing you.
 
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MagiusNecros said:
Nah most games lack the wow factor. Wow factor that an Ico game, Yoko Taro game or the recent E33 has in spades.

Course the games you mention Mario and Meatboy are primarily platformers and lack the Dark Fantasy atmosphere I crave.

When it comes to most Western games they lack artistic vision and often come off as too artificial or soulless.

It's kinda like going to a Bookstore and wanting to read a good Western Fantasy or Sci-Fi Novel but every Western Author keeps writing non-fiction.
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Y'know, this is going to sound plain stupid or disagreeable to some, but recently I watched a full walkthrough of Uncharted: the lost legacy, out of pure curiousity. By the end of it, I thought to myself how "tame" the world and storyline was. They had some interesting characters, but the whole adventure really lacked some "oomph". The main villain having a background as a doctor was kinda cool and it would've been interesting if he had been on the chase for some fantastical "amazing cure" or whatever.

I was hoping the story would have a turning point where they'd be on the hunt for some ancient, mystical "liquid" or "elixir" that could bring inanimate things to life (which could've been in line with his background as a motivation). Then, upon its discovery, It could've lead up to a moment where one of the military jeeps accidentally got the liquid spilled upon it, or doused by it under some circumstance, only to start turning its mask or bender into a monsterous jaw or something and come to life. Cue monster car boss fight. Y'know, fabled and outerworldly twist which would make the adventure more wild and adventerous or something. My point is, too many modern American AAA games, and modern AAA overall, lack that "wow" factor or "pizzazz" that makes people keep talking about them or discussing them a long time post launch.

But, hey, that's just me anyway.
 
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Yes.

But gamers enabled it.

They wanted e3 gone, got it. Now they can all be lazy and just do shows without real competition.

They want convenience, got it - now soon, we will all be forced digital and at the mercy of digi store front non-comoetitive pricing.

They wanted to play online - got it, with ever increasing fees and nobody bats an eye. Microsoft ushered in this beauty but instead of criticism it was "LOL bUt XbOx LiVe Is So GoOd It'S wOrTh It!"

They supported developers not wanting overtime. Got it. Now we get games once per decade.

They complain abiut how mundane, safe, and political devs have gotten - but guess what, you'll still be there to buy the next Naughty Dog game or GTA6! So they really don't care.

And all this, while they hate you completely and spit in the "gamers" face.

Lazy.
 
Specifically Western AAAs?

Yes.

Other parts of the overall industry are in something of a Golden Age or doing just fine.

Western AAA or the ever elusive AAAA are mostly dogshit lately with some rare and notable exceptions.


Some big dogs will fall and newer, smaller studios will rise. That's progress and all for it.
 
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AAA American games are kinda shit yeah.

All the rest tho? As an indie dev, publishing your game is easier than ever. The asian market is evergrowing specially in Korea and China, and this year I played a slav game on release that barely had any bugs and is my first choice for GOTY. Everyone but American AAA devs are doing more than fine.
 
Things were incredible in 2001 but not everyone is going to look back at it today and understand why.

Trailers in 2025.. half of them have the same stupid orchestral "DUH DUUH DUH" smash cut cookie cutter soundtrack that should be invisible it's such garbage.

The last few racing games that had potential are loaded with narrative slop nonsense WHILE you're racing.

The console manufactures don't seem to understand what will "hit" anymore… so they take "accidental" hits like Fortnite and try to copy the formula, fail and we end up with nothing.

And a lot of western devs are clearly too hyper focused on creating art style vanity projects and not games. We were ROLLING in great content when not every developer was asking " like, what is my game trying to SAY?"

Kojima asked us to "think of covid" when playing his new release. Sounds FUN!

We've got a lot of "head up the ass" going on and I think it's easier to spot if you're an old man ;)
 
No your not an old bitter man your 100 percent right!, and that's coming from another bitter old man lol, western dev's work is average and doesn't excite many anymore except GTA, most can see this even if they try and deny it.
 
AGRacing said:
Trailers in 2025.. half of them have the same stupid orchestral "DUH DUUH DUH" smash cut cookie cutter soundtrack that should be invisible it's such garbage.
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Yes the trailers can be so annoying trying to be impactful with the same crash sounds and climaxing editing style, been going on for years now alongside this over used glitch malfunction overlay. So many lame youtube intros use this technique as well, can't just have some title, it has to glitch with some electrical short sound. It was played out 10 years ago.
 
Outside of a very select few FPS titles - Western devs have always been trash.
Aint nothin new.

But yes - its worse than ever in the here and now.
 
There's a lot more better eastern games these days but I'll say the best games are still western like Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Witcher, and GTA. So there's a good balance cause while there's usually more better eastern games then western but the very very best games are still western.
 
Raven117 said:
it was developed in France.

Regardless, what difference does it make? The point is not the style of game, but it's respect for mature subject matter.

I swear some of y'all are morons.
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It can't have mature matter and be a Western game, that's why it's classified as an JRPG.
 
InXile Clockwork revolution
Doublefine Keeper
Obsidian Outer world 2 & Grounded 2
Chronicles medieval which seem to be KCD simRPG like.

Yea its a you thing. These were behind widely successful kickstarters not that long ago until they joined MS and delivered amazing games.

As if we didn't have enough fucking weeb souls clone during summer game fest.
 
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