Lol, c'mon son.
Joseph is best JoJo btw
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Arrow Season 4 |OT| A Tale of Salt and Fire
- Thread starter ZeroX03
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Joseph is best JoJo btw
Joseph is best JoJo btw
I've been watching it for the first time over my holiday break, about halfway through Stardust Crusaders and I 100% agree.
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
Just going to say:
hospitals usually require a patient to be discharged in a wheel chair regardless of whether they are totally capable of walking out under their own power.
Just going to say:hospitals usually require a patient to be discharged in a wheel chair regardless of whether they are totally capable of walking out under their own power.
Yes, but we never have actually seen someone leave the hospital. It would be a weird thing to cut to. And they're filming episode 14 or something.
Frank the Great
Banned
I will never understand why people here are so against seeing
. What is so bad about that? I honestly don't get it.
Is it simply because it is
Felicity in a wheelchair.
Is it simply because it is
similar to a comic book character? If so, why give a fuck? This is a comic book show. Is it surprising if elements are taken from the comics? I'm confounded by the vitriol.
I will never understand why people here are so against seeing. What is so bad about that? I honestly don't get it.Felicity in a wheelchair.
Is it simply because it issimilar to a comic book character? If so, why give a fuck? This is a comic book show. Is it surprising if elements are taken from the comics? I'm confounded by the vitriol.
Because doing a death fakeout that was teased at the start of the season to turn into putting Felicity in a wheelchair, calling her Oracle, and killing off someone else instead to fill the grave would be moronic
I will never understand why people here are so against seeing. What is so bad about that? I honestly don't get it.Felicity in a wheelchair.
Is it simply because it issimilar to a comic book character? If so, why give a fuck? This is a comic book show. Is it surprising if elements are taken from the comics? I'm confounded by the vitriol.
I don't get it either. Her
having the code name Oracle is fine. She's basically the fucking Oracle in Arrowverse already.
If you really had a problem with it you could always headcanon it as
Felicity training or inspiring Barbara at some point later to become the next Oracle in the future or some other bs.
Frank the Great
Banned
Because doing a death fakeout that was teased at the start of the season to turn into putting Felicity in a wheelchair, calling her Oracle, and killing off someone else instead to fill the grave would be moronic
But why? What makes it worse than any other ridiculous plot in this show? Or in the comics for that matter? A character
surviving a near death experience and becoming wheelchair-bound is a very common and realistic trope. I mean, isn't that exactly how Barbara becomes Oracle in the comics? What makes it worse here?
Is it merely the teased death fake out that bothers you? If so, Felicity becoming Oracle is irrelevant to that. It would still be a fake out as long as Felicity merely survives. Her being in a wheelchair is a separate concern entirely, and that seems to be the source of the vitriol.
Is it merely the teased death fake out that bothers you? If so, Felicity becoming Oracle is irrelevant to that. It would still be a fake out as long as Felicity merely survives. Her being in a wheelchair is a separate concern entirely, and that seems to be the source of the vitriol.
Plasticine
Member
I will never understand why people here are so against seeing. What is so bad about that? I honestly don't get it.Felicity in a wheelchair.
Is it simply because it issimilar to a comic book character? If so, why give a fuck? This is a comic book show. Is it surprising if elements are taken from the comics? I'm confounded by the vitriol.
They don't really give a shit about the fidelity to the comics. They only care about seeing Felicity dead. Seeing her not dead causes their irrational, delusional hatred to rise.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
I think a lot are getting tired of the writers of Arrow "borrowing" stuff from Batman.
They don't really give a shit about the fidelity to the comics. They only care about seeing Felicity dead. Seeing her not dead causes their irrational, delusional hatred to rise.
I'm fine with Felicity and her being alive. I however am not fine with the show continuing to leverage her importance just to appease shippers
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
I think a lot are getting tired of the writers of Arrow "borrowing" stuff from Batman.
This is a weird one, too. It's not like adapting Batman stories hurts their chances of being adapted elsewhere.
Green Arrow doesn't have a ton and Batman has enough to share, in my opinion.
BewareTheBatsie
Member
Guggenheim seems salty about the lack of stunt nominations in the Emmy's for Arrow. In my own opinion I think the fight choreography, while still enjoyable and some parts stand out, doesn't seem as on par as it was for the first two seasons. Which is strange considering that later seasons add more characters and thus, more opportunities for different kinds of brawls.
MikeBreezy92
Member
I'm fine with Felicity and her being alive. I however am not fine with the show continuing to leverage her importance just to appease shippers
Then it shouldn't be an issue....
I'm not sure honestly if the stunts are better or not. Nothing in S3 was memorable. Even the big hyped up S4 stunts were just okay. It's hard to tell since we have gotten a lot of new shows since the first two seasons. Daredevil definitely raised the bar though.Guggenheim seems salty about the lack of stunt nominations in the Emmy's for Arrow. In my own opinion I think the fight choreography, while still enjoyable and some parts stand out, doesn't seem as on par as it was for the first two seasons. Which is strange considering that later seasons add more characters and thus, more opportunities for different kinds of brawls.
Guggenheim seems salty about the lack of stunt nominations in the Emmy's for Arrow. In my own opinion I think the fight choreography, while still enjoyable and some parts stand out, doesn't seem as on par as it was for the first two seasons. Which is strange considering that later seasons add more characters and thus, more opportunities for different kinds of brawls.
Considering what the competition was in the category over the past few years, it is kind of bullshit that Arrow doesn't at least get a nomination. The Flash was lucky to get a nod for Grodd and Jane the Virgin's Golden Globes success didn't carry over to the Emmys. The CW stigma is real.
Here's James Bamford's favorite stunts so far. Daredevil's hallway scene tops the elevator scene, but the procedurals sure as hell don't. Bambam needs to tone down the shaky cam down, but that's cinematography and direction.
BewareTheBatsie
Member
I think I read somewhere that the lead choreographer went to Flash which might have suffered on how the fights are. But I agree, I do think that the show had a better chance with the earlier seasons.I'm not sure honestly if the stunts are better or not. Nothing in S3 was memorable. Even the big hyped up S4 stunts were just okay. It's hard to tell since we have gotten a lot of new shows since the first two seasons. Daredevil definitely raised the bar though.
Maybe they just don't want to push a superhero show? Flash got it for effects and effects are generally one of the few categories that the more outlandish shows have a chance for.Considering what the competition was in the category over the past few years, it is kind of bullshit that Arrow doesn't at least get a nomination. The Flash was lucky to get a nod for Grodd and Jane the Virgin's Golden Globes success didn't carry over to the Emmys. The CW stigma is real.
I think I read somewhere that the lead choreographer went to Flash which might have suffered on how the fights are. But I agree, I do think that the show had a better chance with the earlier seasons.
Yes and no, but mostly no. James Bamford has been with Arrow since the beginning and so has JJ Makaro. Makaro did work on The Flash but also stayed with Arrow during S3 and S4 but Bambam picked up the slack. IMDB episode entries are incomplete which gives that impression.
Maybe they just don't want to push a superhero show? Flash got it for effects and effects are generally one of the few categories that the more outlandish shows have a chance for.
It's not just superhero shows, when The WB/CW are doing anything right they don't get acknowledged by the Emmys. The only major nom Buffy ever got was writing for Hush, Gilmore Girls got nothing, Jane the Virgin was only nominated for Best Narrator.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
This is a weird one, too. It's not like adapting Batman stories hurts their chances of being adapted elsewhere.
Green Arrow doesn't have a ton and Batman has enough to share, in my opinion.
Maybe if they gave credit to the source from which they keep "borrowing" from.
Okay borrowing Ra's was fine(until they completely screwed that up), but you then have to add the whole heir plot point.
It didn't even fit Oliver but they thought it was awesome in Batman so tacked it on as well.
Then after Ra's gets screwed by terrible writing, they freaking kill him and have the goofy ass Green Arrow villain take his place.
If your going to borrow one of Batman's top villains you better at least acknowledge Batman in there somehow.
Also took Huntress... fucked that up quickly.
Make Green Arrow stuff interesting, stop ripping off better characters.
4 season;
1 Green Arrow big bad
1 Batman big bad
2 Teen Titans big bads
Team Filler
Member
I'm okay with Felicity being alive, I like her and Oliver together (or at least I do when they behave like normal human beings). I'm even okay with her being wheelchair-bound and becoming Oracle. What I'm not particularly okay with is the amount of Felicity dramatics and crying that will likely come with that.
Make Green Arrow stuff interesting, stop ripping off better characters.
4 season;
1 Green Arrow big bad
1 Batman big bad
2 Teen Titans big bads
What Green Arrow characters are suitable to be big bads exactly? Merlyn is #1, and they used him first. Deathstroke is practically a DC-wide villain now so I'm not going to hold that against them, and Damien Darhk is a (HIVE) nobody they're doing their own new take with. Pretty successfully. Really it's just Ra's as the problematic big bad, although Merlyn is a long time League member so that isn't really out of the realm of possibility either.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Don't make a solo show about a character that apparently can't carry a show?What Green Arrow characters are suitable to be big bads exactly?
I laugh at people requesting Rocksteady make a game like Arkham exclusively with Green Arrow.
We have a Batman show absolutely killing it without Batman and his villains at subC level(penguin maybe B).
its about direction, I think Arrow is good but could be great with a new direction.
Seasons 1 & 2 were about perfect but 3 was horrendous and 4 is sitting in the middle.
Don't make a solo show about a character that apparently can't carry a show maybe?
That's not an answer to the question. We've got the show, saying "retroactively don't create the show" doesn't help anything.
Arrow is doing fine with 3/4 of the big bads.
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
Maybe if they gave credit to the source from which they keep "borrowing" from.
Arrowverse has acknowledged Batman as much as Gotham, so they're doing okay, I guess.
But I'm not sure how you want them to acknowledge Batman in any kind of meaningful way or how that specifically would affect things at all really.
I don't think Ras referencing "the Detective" or something would help anything. Hell, that would make it worse: Green Arrow is the center of a universe where Batman exists? That's crazy. You're actually better off not having Batman exist here because otherwise he matters less than a universe where he doesn't even exist.
We have a Batman show absolutely killing it without Batman and his villains at subC level(penguin maybe B).
its about direction, I think Arrow is good but could be great with a new direction.
Seasons 1 & 2 were about perfect but 3 was horrendous and 4 is sitting in the middle.
Serious question because I don't venture into the Gotham thread: if Gotham was a wholly original show with no connection to the Batman universe with identical characters and story lines but different names, would you actually be watching it?
Razgriz-Specter
Member
That's not an answer to the question. We've got the show, saying "retroactively don't create the show" doesn't help anything.
Arrow is doing fine with 3/4 of the big bads.
You avatar reminds me that I feel opposite about Flash.
As of this point the 2 Flash big bads have been perfect yet the supporting cast/heroes besides Joe don't feel nearly as solid.
and I think Arrow's villains of the week were a lot better.
I actually would have enjoyed it sooner because the ages and stuff being messed with was really killing my interest.Serious question because I don't venture into the Gotham thread: if Gotham was a wholly original show with no connection to the Batman universe with identical characters and story lines but different names, would you actually be watching it?
(Bette Kane = original Bat-girl was cast as like a 30year old while Bruce Wayne is 13?, thankfully was cut. Harvey Dent is like twice Bruce's age, etc)
Also kittygirl Selina wouldn't be screwing with my head image of Selina/Catwoman.
Show is absolutely crazy and the art direction and cinematography is great.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
You avatar reminds me that I feel opposite about Flash.
As of this point the 2 Flash big bads have been perfect yet the supporting cast/heroes besides Joe don't feel nearly as solid.
and I think Arrow's villains of the week were a lot better.
I actually would have enjoyed it sooner because the ages and stuff being messed with was really killing my interest.
(Bette Kane = original Bat-girl was cast as like a 30year old while Bruce Wayne is 13?, thankfully was cut. Harvey Dent is like twice Bruce's age, etc)
Also kittygirl Selina wouldn't be screwing with my head image of Selina/Catwoman.
Show is absolutely crazy and the art direction and cinematography is great.
Dent being a good deal older than Bruce at least has precedents.
Arrow is doing good, they will always need a Batman like character for their justice League where Arrow is the next best thing. Gotham doesn't have any ambition to do anything more than their isolated world. So they just ham it up with teases for villains they will never be able to useDon't make a solo show about a character that apparently can't carry a show?
I laugh at people requesting Rocksteady make a game like Arkham exclusively with Green Arrow.
We have a Batman show absolutely killing it without Batman and his villains at subC level(penguin maybe B).
its about direction, I think Arrow is good but could be great with a new direction.
Seasons 1 & 2 were about perfect but 3 was horrendous and 4 is sitting in the middle.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Gotham doesn't have any ambition to do anything more than their isolated world. So they just ham it up with teases for villains they will never be able to use
Eh, everyone but Dent, Selina and Ivy(who really is just a cameo at this point) has been done so well on there some don't really matter wether they get there on the show or not.
Jerome might be my favorite live action "version" of Joker and he doesn't have the look/costume.
Alfred is the best version by far.
Bruce is getting good for a kid and had an incredible moment in the last few episodes.
They freaking used The Order of St. Dumas
Their original big bad villain was pretty darn good
Riddler and Penguin are perfect at the moment
Literally the only problem I have with it at the moment is that I can't believe they haven't shown flashback scenes about Bruce's parents.
its a freaking tv series and they have less screen time than Batman Begins.
It's not just superhero shows, when The WB/CW are doing anything right they don't get acknowledged by the Emmys. The only major nom Buffy ever got was writing for Hush, Gilmore Girls got nothing, Jane the Virgin was only nominated for Best Narrator.
That sucks. Gilmore Girls had some great writing in the earlier seasons.
brotkasten
Member
I'm not sure honestly if the stunts are better or not. Nothing in S3 was memorable. Even the big hyped up S4 stunts were just okay. It's hard to tell since we have gotten a lot of new shows since the first two seasons. Daredevil definitely raised the bar though.
I feel like the fights look worse and worse the more characters are in it. It all looks so choreographed and like a dance. The in-show stunt scene I liked the most was then Sara busted into the apartment and fucked Thea up really bad. It looked great and was accompanied by some good music. I felt really bad for Thea.
The stunts in the James Bamford video all look more impressive to me than what ended up being in the show. I'm not sure why exactly.
Eh, everyone but Dent, Selina and Ivy(who really is just a cameo at this point) has been done so well on there some don't really matter wether they get there on the show or not.
Jerome might be my favorite live action "version" of Joker and he doesn't have the look/costume.
Alfred is the best version by far.
Bruce is getting good for a kid and had an incredible moment in the last few episodes.
They freaking used The Order of St. Dumas
Their original big bad villain was pretty darn good
Riddler and Penguin are perfect at the moment
Literally the only problem I have with it at the moment is that I can't believe they haven't shown flashback scenes about Bruce's parents.
its a freaking tv series and they have less screen time than Batman Begins.
Jerome is a good example, they pretend for months they'll do Joker and then they do some tease version.
Order of St Dumas isn't something amazing when Arrow gets to use the actual league, HIVE and
Shadowspire
Jerome is a good example, they pretend for months they'll do Joker and then they do some tease version.
Order of St Dumas isn't something amazing when Arrow gets to use the actual league, HIVE and.Shadowspire
Except they also said from the beginning that there would be many red herrings for the Joker.
People convinced themselves about Jerome, nobody ever said that he was not just another red herring.
People only have themselves to blame for that.
Gotham did screw the Order up in a big way, though that could just be a small part of the order.
Seems like folks may be getting themselves worked up over nothing
https://twitter.com/mguggenheim/status/685861903969554432
Rule #1: Guggenheim lies
4x10 Aussie promo with spoilers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQDLPI0M73Q
BewareTheBatsie
Member
Should I be mad it's true or mad that the promos always give away the fucking spoilers before the episode does.Rule #1: Guggenheim lies
4x10 Aussie promo with spoilers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQDLPI0M73Q
Rule #1: Guggenheim lies
4x10 Aussie promo with spoilers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQDLPI0M73Q
Felicity will be hallucinating she can walk
Rule #1: Guggenheim lies
4x10 Aussie promo with spoilers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQDLPI0M73Q
Express from the US. lol
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Considering we are a good 5+ years at the earliest away from Batman and costumed antics the fact that St Dumas was used and pretty well at that is a great sign.Order of St Dumas isn't something amazing when Arrow gets to use the actual league, HIVE and.Shadowspire
League of Shadows showing up on this show would be kinda weird at this point unless we just get the string pulling from the shadows.
I mean Ra's and the League mostly failing against Gordon would suck.
Though I did have a thought recently about Alfred hiring a world class martial artist to further Bruce's fighting and it ends up being someone like a young Shiva,
sent by Ra's to try slowly grooming him towards the typical destroying Gotham from the inside thing.
ClivePwned
Member
Express from the US. lol
don't get me started. Australian Cable provider Foxtel shows Arrow and The Flash basically a few hours after the US, and then sits on the episodes for an arbitrary amount of time before releasing the episodes to season pass holders on Australian itunes and google. That arbitrary time is anywhere from the next day (like everything else) to 4 weeks for that last episode of Arrow. Next year, I'll pay (a lot) extra and get a season pass on US iTunes.
They also waited weeks before adding the crossover episodes to the season passes (ie Flash episode in the Arrow pass and vice-versa)
Really frustrating as it's generally been solid season. If you watch the episodes live on Foxtel, they are sped up (normal PAL speedup and possibly sped up more for time). Oliver using his non threatening voice sounds like a chipmunk.
BewareTheBatsie
Member
Honestly I just want her being in a wheelchair to be treated with respect and not as just a cheap way to generate angst- which honestly is what it feels like. After going through this kind of storyline with Glee I can't take anymore painful writing.
Rule #1: Guggenheim lies
4x10 Aussie promo with spoilers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQDLPI0M73Q
Guggenheim and Berlanti both on record lying. Kreisberg has lied unknowingly too but I can't think of a time he's done it on purpose.
And you know what? It's totally fine if they lie. I like reading spoilers but I also like being surprised and it's their show. Can you imagine how crazy the Flash/Arrow/Firestorm showdown would have been in Flash #122 if we hadn't been spoiled?
It can't be as bad as Glee writing. It is physically impossible.Honestly I just want her being in a wheelchair to be treated with respect and not as just a cheap way to generate angst- which honestly is what it feels like. After going through this kind of storyline with Glee I can't take anymore painful writing.
BewareTheBatsie
Member
Since Calculator has been rumored
what are the chances that
to be Felicity's dad,
she ends up being Proxy?
Oh dear god this is going to be insufferable.Rule #1: Guggenheim lies
4x10 Aussie promo with spoilers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQDLPI0M73Q
Since Calculator has been rumoredwhat are the chances thatto be Felicity's dad,she ends up being Proxy?
If they don't want to use the name Oracle I guess. Her episode in S3 was originally called Oracle and then renamed so it's probably something along those lines.
BronsonLee
Member
Can you imagine how crazy the Flash/Arrow/Firestorm showdown would have been in Flash #122 if we hadn't been spoiled?
Act like that shit still wasn't hype as fuck
Oh shit it's the ring
OH SHIT HERE WE GO
Act like that shit still wasn't hype as fuck
Oh shit it's the ring
OH SHIT HERE WE GO
It was still uncontrollable hype, don't get me wrong.
But can you imagine if we didn't know Firestorm and Arrow were going to drop in? They were in-episode surprises. They threw it in the promo after it leaked but it was clearly meant it to be a twist. GAF would have EXPLODED.
BewareTheBatsie
Member
I just figure since everyone seems to be assumingIf they don't want to use the name Oracle I guess. Her episode in S3 was originally called Oracle and then renamed so it's probably something along those lines.
he's going to be her dad, using the daughter in a wheelchair he has in the comics for Felicity would make sense.
That scene was awkward as hell, especially the whole part with Oliver shooting that arrow that slowed down Reverse-Flash created by Ray which probably will never be brought up again (let's not get into the fact that there isn't much belief to the fact Ray who knows barely anything about the Speedforce would be able to counteract it briefly). The end of it just looked like Ollie and Ronnie were off to go get a beer together or something with how they just walked off, and also the hilarity of Oliver skipping out on his wedding and soon to be poisoned friends.Act like that shit still wasn't hype as fuck
Oh shit it's the ring
OH SHIT HERE WE GO
I think it being advertised so much just made the quality of it rather jarringly go down.
I just figure since everyone seems to be assuminghe's going to be her dad, using the daughter in a wheelchair he has in the comics for Felicity would make sense.
They'll take elements for sure, I think it's just the name that's in question.
Plus Felicity is technically an established character... Not one that anybody cares about mind you. It'll just be a Proxy/Oracle mix with one of the names.
That scene was awkward as hell, especially the whole part with Oliver shooting that arrow that slowed down Reverse-Flash created by Ray which probably will never be brought up again (let's not get into the fact that there isn't much belief to the fact Ray who knows barely anything about the Speedforce would be able to counteract it briefly). The end of it just looked like Ollie and Ronnie were off to go get a beer together or something with how they just walked off, and also the hilarity of Oliver skipping out on his wedding and soon to be poisoned friends.
I think it being advertised so much just made the quality of it rather jarringly go down.
Metahuman dampening appears to be a somewhat consistent element, and affects Earth-1 speedsters. Remember they can contain Reverse Flash in the cell too and Cisco had the meta truck. So it's loosely consistent.
Ronnie was just going to meet Caitlin and Oliver had to go and bang a few chicks on the way back to Nanda Parbat.
The evidence for the theory thatI just figure since everyone seems to be assuminghe's going to be her dad, using the daughter in a wheelchair he has in the comics for Felicity would make sense.
Calculator is her daddy
Proxy built Cyborg or something so they can do that for Titans
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