broncobuster
Banned
Diggle this episode...Andy Andy Andy Andy Andy
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Arrow Season 4 |OT| A Tale of Salt and Fire
- Thread starter ZeroX03
- Start date
- Status
The AV Club wasn't a fan on the episode (C), but mostly just because of the secrets. They liked everything else.
On the subject of secrets, I can actually totally understand why Samantha wants Oliver to keep William a secret, but it's something that didn't really click until the talk with Thea. Oliver Queen has a huge target on his head as the Mayoral candidate. All the others have been attacked at the least. He's attacked in public multiple times in the following episode and Felicity did pay the price for being with him. Forcing him to keep the secret from Felicity is still a bit extreme, but being associated with Oliver Queen in any way is dangerous enough at this point in time that it would have been such an easier pill to swallow if it was framed like that.
On the subject of secrets, I can actually totally understand why Samantha wants Oliver to keep William a secret, but it's something that didn't really click until the talk with Thea. Oliver Queen has a huge target on his head as the Mayoral candidate. All the others have been attacked at the least. He's attacked in public multiple times in the following episode and Felicity did pay the price for being with him. Forcing him to keep the secret from Felicity is still a bit extreme, but being associated with Oliver Queen in any way is dangerous enough at this point in time that it would have been such an easier pill to swallow if it was framed like that.
psychotron
Member
I laughed at that part.
gundamkyoukai
Member
That would have been better but it still don't make any sense.
It's not like him telling felicity going to bring any harm to the child .
plus if thea can figure this out anyone can lol .
Still really looking forward to next week ep with vixen .
RedNumberFive
Banned
Felicity' mom is in that grave. Considering Felicity left the grave losing her mind, and that the show went out of their way to inform the viewer that she's a possible target now, there is no other choice. The CW isn't going to off a small child.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
lmao. Blackneto fulfilled.
Don't forget that the January premier had the flash-forward at 4 months. So time in the Arrowverse moves slowly apparently!
Jorok Goldblade
Member
The premiere was October 7th, so if it's real-time, April 7th should be the funeral.
The death will probably be in late March before the final break of the season.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Could also be Quentin since his death would make Felicities mom send and Felicity in turn angry.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
I like how Oliver went from handily beating Malcolm last week to struggling with one of the demo guys. That guy also favorited and responded to my tweet about that, heh.
Mark Guggenheim use to be a lawyer, he has to know just how bullshit this whole "you can see your son as long as you don't tell anyone about him" nonsense is it's nothing but drama for the sake of drama and throwing Thea into it with this ridiculous check nonsense to give Oliver (and the writers) someone to reinforce it as a good idea was just... Ugh. But oh well,
The action was on point though some interesting shots with James Bamford directing though IDK what the point of the limo jump was. Damien pulls a Vader though now why couldn't he do that to Oliver? I like how they put Laurel getting bloodied in the promos to look like she was going to be in some sort of peril. Speaking of which, I said it before but I'll say it again, Katie Cassidy has been looking great this season. I still find Felicity's mom annoying in an overly cheery/bad cheesy kind of way the tight dresses and push-up bras they put Charlotte Ross in isn't enough to distract me from it. So Curtis invents a spinal simulator chip to give to Felicity, okay she's the test subject (I really hope this doesn't result in her getting some sort of power) but that shit better be on the market in a couple years. This whole paralysis thing has been a waste of time though.
Mark Guggenheim use to be a lawyer, he has to know just how bullshit this whole "you can see your son as long as you don't tell anyone about him" nonsense is it's nothing but drama for the sake of drama and throwing Thea into it with this ridiculous check nonsense to give Oliver (and the writers) someone to reinforce it as a good idea was just... Ugh. But oh well,
it comes back to bite Oliver in the ass next week like EVERY. SINGLE. FUCKING. LIE. ALWAYS. DOES.
The action was on point though some interesting shots with James Bamford directing though IDK what the point of the limo jump was. Damien pulls a Vader though now why couldn't he do that to Oliver? I like how they put Laurel getting bloodied in the promos to look like she was going to be in some sort of peril. Speaking of which, I said it before but I'll say it again, Katie Cassidy has been looking great this season. I still find Felicity's mom annoying in an overly cheery/bad cheesy kind of way the tight dresses and push-up bras they put Charlotte Ross in isn't enough to distract me from it. So Curtis invents a spinal simulator chip to give to Felicity, okay she's the test subject (I really hope this doesn't result in her getting some sort of power) but that shit better be on the market in a couple years. This whole paralysis thing has been a waste of time though.
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
This last episode had made me think that the Malcolm/Oliver fight was staged.
Like, Merlyn is already inside HIVE now. He's in the board room, watching Darhk kill dudes via telepresence. Yet he hasn't told him that Oliver is Green Arrow.
I bet he made up a plan he didn't fully tell Oliver. And Oliver, quick to try and get an advantage on Darhk, agreed.
Like, Merlyn is already inside HIVE now. He's in the board room, watching Darhk kill dudes via telepresence. Yet he hasn't told him that Oliver is Green Arrow.
I bet he made up a plan he didn't fully tell Oliver. And Oliver, quick to try and get an advantage on Darhk, agreed.
I do like they had Thea side with Oliver though. It would have been so easy to add more drama between the siblings but they didn't take the easy way out. I admit I would have been really annoyed if they had Thea potentially take Felicity's side of things instead of her brother's. The sibling relationship needs to continue to be strong and focused on more and more.
The action was fantastic. Faceless goons bad, unmasked goons toptier.
Laurel finally learned to get out of crumbling buildings on time, not going back in for documents.
Geomancer isn't as good as the Demolition Team
"I learned that in high school". Perfect.
The look felicity gives the camera when Donna asks her if she invited Chesthair.
Laurel finally learned to get out of crumbling buildings on time, not going back in for documents.
Geomancer isn't as good as the Demolition Team
"I learned that in high school". Perfect.
The look felicity gives the camera when Donna asks her if she invited Chesthair.
fallengorn
Bitches love smiley faces
Interesting theory, but what's in it for Merlyn? He's going to be the head of HIVE? Eh, been there, done that.
Maybe he is dying and wants to do a final good thing for this world.
I mean he did out his son soo
But this would be such an incredible retread of S3 it wouldn't even be funny
ChaosZeroX
Banned
Am I the only one that thinks this show is pretty much done at this point?
Its getting incredibly bland. Guggenheim is such a terrible writer.
Its getting incredibly bland. Guggenheim is such a terrible writer.
psychotron
Member
Makes sense. Gives Oliver a great opportunity for a one-liner. "You pulled it off, Malcolm...I really gotta hand it to you."
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
Could be doing it to "protect Thea," but really some ulterior motive that includes taking HIVE's resources.
I know, I know. Season 3.
Novel Mike
Member
I'm been thinking the same thing. Why else would Merlyn not tell Damien that Oliver=Green Arrow.
Unless Merlyn is playing both sides...
WTB More information damn it XD
Mericle gets some credit too though I reckon.
gundamkyoukai
Member
The shows is far from done .
We have not hit the point where every season feel worst than season 3 .
Thought this too but doubt Oliver would be ok with letting his son be used as a pawn.
Diggle's Vengeance.
Let's just say I have a ton of new puns for an upcoming fuc from this episode. "Debate prep" included.
Anyhow I don't get why he's keeping it a secret, did that time travel stuff back with Savage teach him nothing? Plus, what is she going to do go tell the press? I was waiting for Mamma Darhk to drop the truth about William at the debate.
Thea lecturing Olliver? She should know how terrible keeping a secret too. Remember she went all emo when Ollie lied about Merlyn being her father?
Mamma Smoak and Pappa Lance are so cute together.
StopMakingSense
Member
I am wondering what Dhark did/said to the baby mama.
Septimus Prime
Member
I'm holding out hope that it'll miraculously recover, like Supernatural.
gundamkyoukai
Member
That show recover ?
I stop watching after a bit of season 10 and it was still bad .
After season 5 everything went down hill .
Arrow has far to go before it drop that bad IMO.
He probably crippled her and threw her in a pit.
Magic and nanobots exist in this world he could probably buy a rocket fist if he wanted.
Calm waterfall
Banned
I can´t wait for
, next week. But that dialogue was so bad.
Vixen
evil solrac v3.0
Member
I don' think it's "done"..... yet. but it sure is getting there. last night's episode was awful. drama for the sake of drama that did not advance the plot not one iota. and the casual misandry towards Lance and the contrived "I can't tell you because I can't" are these characters incapable of telling the truth? of having an actual adult conversation. the moment the cast started growing is the moment the show lost focus.
or maybe we want the show writers to try harder?
Septimus Prime
Member
Yes. Season 11 is excellent and on par with season 5. 6-10 are not so good. It was a long and grueling trek to get to this point, though, and they ended up having to kill off most extraneous characters--including some fan favorites--but it was worth it in the long run.
I'm not holding it against him that he didn't want to say: "I'm in danger because I worked for the organisation that shot your daughter". Good on him that he did it in the end anyway.
I'm always curious how honest people that complain about this are in real life.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Will have to check it out then .
Oliver should learn from him .
Better yet the show writes should not have a plot point that so stupid that there just for romance drama.
Drama shows should ideally have characters making mistakes, trying to improve themselves.
Septimus Prime
Member
They just need to trim the fat. Okay, Felicity isn't going anywhere. Fine. Kill off Thea/Laurel, Diggle, Lyla, Lance, Donna, and Diggle 2. Differentiate flashback Oliver with his current self; he shouldn't have qualms about killing in the flashbacks, since he's all into it in season 1, which is chronologically later.
The show is called "Arrow"--not "Bunch of Nobodies."
The show is called "Arrow"--not "Bunch of Nobodies."
Cipher Peon
Banned
One of the few times this season that I think the week's episode of Arrow is better than the week's episode of The Flash.
Really loved this episode and the constant switching of perspectives of targets led to a ton of awesome tension. Especially considering that I think Lance is gonna bite it.
I was totally down for this episode up until they HAD THE DEBATES OFF SCREEN WTF
I was COMPLETELY looking forward to them! I would have wanted a whole episode dedicated on political debates, and having them not even show a little of it was devastating. I LOVE politics and I LOVE superhero shows and this was the golden opportunity to do a political debate in a superhero show and... nope.
Biggest missed opportunity from the show in a long long while.
Really loved this episode and the constant switching of perspectives of targets led to a ton of awesome tension. Especially considering that I think Lance is gonna bite it.
I was totally down for this episode up until they HAD THE DEBATES OFF SCREEN WTF
I was COMPLETELY looking forward to them! I would have wanted a whole episode dedicated on political debates, and having them not even show a little of it was devastating. I LOVE politics and I LOVE superhero shows and this was the golden opportunity to do a political debate in a superhero show and... nope.
Biggest missed opportunity from the show in a long long while.
gundamkyoukai
Member
They don't need to kill off everyone lol.
Characters like lyla not even a problem since she hardly there .
Plus this show can't go 22 ep a season with only 2 characters .
What they need to do is have less focus on other characters .
Cipher Peon
Banned
I watch the political debates, of course. I enjoy them greatly.
I just thought it was a golden opportunity to do something different and flesh out the political/ideological/practical views from Oliver. They really could have gone in depth about how he approaches philanthropy in a visible and practical problem solving way, which would have made some awesome juxtaposition from when he bailed on a donation event in Season 2. And also I would have loved hearing about how he feels and would handle the superhero and supervillain problems that Star City have on the public space.
Nothing wrong with that. Plenty of areas they can improve with, like the island stuff, etc.
But the same old same old "this show sucks" from some around here makes me question why why they still watch it each week if they hate it so much. (There seems to be a few who outright said they were done/hate it, and still come back).
Personally I enjoyed this episode. It was fun.
- Status