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[SquiddyCracker]

This is a discussion the two of you should have had before you got together, and before you had a child, but while you've made your bed I shall try to do my best helping you out.
It's a bit too late for this bit, but just in case you might reach a compromise with her:

• Regarding un-baptized babies going to limbo.
• She can still celebrate holidays, just as you are presumably doing right now
• Her being "atheist" for 17 years is balanced out by religious education
• Tell her that the pope has in recent times changed this so that they do not go to limbo but rather immediately to heaven.
  
• Regarding the child not picking religion if raised neutrally and given a choice: Tell her that if she does pick her religion as Christinaity, wouldn't God have preferred the child to independently reach said decision instead of having it made for her?

Either way, your daughter being without her father is worse than her being baptized as a child. She won't even remember the "indoctrination", and so long as you go behind your SO's back and teach her about all the other religions (and the non-religious explanations for the world) she should be fine in the theological department.

TL;DR

Apologize to your GF.
Apologize to your father.
Try to maintain the relationship so that you can be a proper father to your daughter.
After a couple of years, if you can't handle the relationship, get a divorce (at much more favourable grounds now).
Otherwise, keep on trucking and do your best to raise your daughter as an independant woman.

 

[YoungHav]

Go with the flow and appease these idiots for now. Just make sure you raise your child smart enough to leave religion. If your family/GF would abandon you over this that says alot about them and their religious "values".

 

[bananas]

when am I supposed to believe you?


Did your Dad throw you out, or did he say the two of you were going to have a chat, to which you laughed at him and left?

which was it?

Yo be fair to OP, his father said "If your daughter was not here, you wouldn’t be allowed in my house.” So he implied it.

Still, OP took the initiative himself.

 

[commedieu]

As an atheist, you should recognize baptism as just a meaningless ritual, if it makes her and her family happy - why not? Sprinkling water on an infant's head doesn't magically make her religious.

This? You're no better than religious zealots at this point OP.

 

[ferr]

Well thats just it... she was not that religious when I first met her. And like I said, she is only religious because she is scared of what happens when you die. Thats why she made the decision to believe that when you die you either get reincarnated or heaven. THAT was not brought to my attention till just a few days ago.

So basically now she wants it, and these things could happen,

1) You are no longer a part of their life, your kid becomes baptized
2) You agree to allow the baptism, your kid becomes baptized
3) In an apparently unlikely scenario, a compromise is made and no baptism takes place. Your kid can learn religion on their own, but the subject will be dangling in your family for years to come. Anything that happens next is conjecture.

As an atheist, you should recognize baptism as just a meaningless ritual, if it makes her and her family happy - why not? Sprinkling water on an infant's head doesn't magically make her religious.

Also this'ing this. I went to a Christian school until 7th grade and decided on atheism by around 8th grade before going with agnosticism by around college. I would actually consider all of that religious upbringing has made me more aware of religion and has helped me make a better decision regarding my beliefs than the average Christian, but I digress.

 

[Quick]

Go with the flow and appease these idiots for now. Just make sure you raise your child smart enough to leave religion. If your family/GF would abandon you over this that says alot about them and their religious "values".

"Idiots"? Really, dude?

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Just as a useless anecdote, I'll offer my own background. My mother is a semi-devout Catholic. My father doesn't believe in anything. I was Catholic-school educated K-12. My father didn't really do anything to instruct me in religious philosophy aside from be completely uninterested in Church and demonstrate zero belief, which I obviously must have caught on to. I don't really remember when I stopped really believing, but I think I was pretty much done pretending to care about religion around the time of my Confirmation.

That's just my own little tale of how kids are capable of making their own choices.

 

[plagiarize]

Yo be fair to OP, his father said "If your daughter was not here, you wouldn’t be allowed in my house.” So he implied it.

Still, OP took the initiative himself.

I don't get the implication. The father was siding with the mother on the kid getting baptized. No reason at all to think their grand daughter was going to cease to exist or to cease being a part of their lives.

i'm sure she still is.

 

[dem]

This is family tradition shit... dont bother trying to fight it.


I'm an athiest.. but you gotta pick your battles. Sprinkle some water on her head. Stop acting like a petulant child.

 

[marrec]

"Idiots"? Really, dude?

Religious people are pretty silly about their sky wizards.

BUT

That doesn't mean that someone as an atheist needs to throw a tantrum about a silly ritual.

 

[Korey]

1) Cut all if these people out of your life. Your dad, mom, gf. Completely. Do not give them a second thought or moment of stress.

2) Get your life together. Once you do that, maintain your rights as a father and have 50% visitation rights or whatever and continue raising tour child the right way. She needs you in the midst of her otherwise batshit crazy family.

Do the above without jeopardizing your legal rights to your daughter. I have no idea about this stuff do others will need to give you more info. Or see a lawyer or social worker.

 

[Cat Party]

1) Cut all if these people out of your life. Your dad, mom, gf. Completely. Do not give them a second thought or moment of stress.

2) Get your life together. Once you do that, maintain your rights as a father and have 50% visitation rights or whatever.

Do the above without jeopardizing your legal rights to your daughter. I have no idea about this stuff do others will need to give you more info. Or see a lawyer or social worker.

Possibly the worst advice I've ever seen given out on GAF.

 

[BronsonLee]

1) Cut all if these people out of your life. Your dad, mom, gf. Completely. Do not give them a second thought or moment of stress.

2) Get your life together. Once you do that, maintain your rights as a father and have 50% visitation rights or whatever and continue raising tour child the right way. She needs you in the midst of her otherwise batshit crazy family.

Do the above without jeopardizing your legal rights to your daughter. I have no idea about this stuff do others will need to give you more info. Or see a lawyer or social worker.

I agree, forcibly disowning yourself from your parents and girlfriend is a far better solution than apologizing for acting like a jackass.

Strong contender for worst advice I've ever seen given here.

Ninja Edit: Dammit, cats have beaten me to the punch yet again!

 

[SquiddyCracker]

1) Cut all if these people out of your life. Your dad, mom, gf. Completely. Do not give them a second thought or moment of stress.

2) Get your life together. Once you do that, maintain your rights as a father and have 50% visitation rights or whatever and continue raising tour child the right way. She needs you in the midst of her otherwise batshit crazy family.

Do the above without jeopardizing your legal rights to your daughter. I have no idea about this stuff do others will need to give you more info. Or see a lawyer or social worker.

Your intentions are good, but he has already jeopardized his legal rights to his daughter in the case a divorce is thrown at the table.
That's why the best thing to do is to get his act together, sure, but also kiss up to his entire family and hope they'll take him back.

The baptism thing isn't even that big of a deal if you can ensure that your daughter's critical thinking abilities are developed - which you'll have an easier time doing if you're not just seeing her every other weekend.

The OP is 100% right in my opinion, but unfortunately reality doesn't always side up with how we feel.

 

[Dice]

[continuing from here] Also, as one who has spent many years as a minister yet now an atheist, I can tell you a few things. Do I look back on it as wasted time? In terms of delaying me from goals I want to reach now, yes. However, I didn't have a father who pointed out their importance to me, I only had two very religious parents. Do I carry some wounds from concepts it impressed on me? Yes, but they also taught me to be introspective, to know and master myself. Did it fill my head with silly things that only disappointed me in the end? Yes, but it also showed me much about the beauty mankind wished was more common in itself, and our nature to try and make it a reality.

My experiences and knowledge have taught me much about myself and others. Because of what it gave me, I am able to see right through the many facades we have constructed to mask them. I don't simply see all religions as paths of folly, but as interpretations of what we all sense intuitively. The things we know we need, the things we can do to make them real for ourselves and others, the weaknesses in ourselves which hinder that process, and the things that happen when we work together to draw out the strengths which overcome. Can it all be found without religion? Sure, but I don't see any secular cultural institutions that are anywhere near as intentional and cooperative in pursing these sides of what it means to be a human being.

So don't count it all as loss. One can know religion and then graduate from it into a more beautiful wisdom in rationality than they would have had without it. My time in religion increased my awareness such a great amount, and with that awareness of self and life, when I know what I want and love, I have full assurance of it. Having full confidence in your knowledge of what is true and what you are passionate about and why is a great joy. The process of developing rationality can be distracted, but whenever it is finally well developed, all information is useful information. Do not fear it.

 

[bananas]

1) Cut all if these people out of your life. Your dad, mom, gf. Completely. Do not give them a second thought or moment of stress.

2) Get your life together. Once you do that, maintain your rights as a father and have 50% visitation rights or whatever and continue raising tour child the right way. She needs you in the midst of her otherwise batshit crazy family.

Do the above without jeopardizing your legal rights to your daughter. I have no idea about this stuff do others will need to give you more info. Or see a lawyer or social worker.

I don't know what's worse. What you wrote, or the fact that you're not joking.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

I should have known GAF would be infested with a bunch of spineless compromises. You know who else compromised? Neville Chamberlain. Don't let Hitler baptize your child, OP. She wants a 40 day introduction course today, but tomorrow she'll be demanding a strip of the Polish corridor. There is only one way out of here alive: It's IDEOLOGICAL WARRIOR TIME.

Her compromise) Take the baby to her 40 day introduction, baptize her Greek Orthodox at 8 months of age, and have her celebrate the holidays and teach her the religion as she grows. Also once she is of age she can choose to continue the religion, pick a new one, or simply not participate in any belief.

That is not a compromise, that is a capitulation. She probably proposed this to you because she thinks you're an idiot. First of all, nobody should be baptized as a Greek Orthodox because LOL GREEK ORTHODOXY. They may have a badass Byzantine Eagle as a logo, but it's a bunch of loons. More so than the comparatively reasonable catholic church. They fingerbang a few twelve year olds from time to time, but they're OK to sit down and have dinner with because they have science educations. Then there's the Church of England who are the largest collection of strangely robed Atheists on the planet, they're cool too.

Secondly, her position is laughable. "Let's raise the child as a Greek Orthodox Christian, then when its older it can leave if it wants". Yeah, of course it can leave when its older, that's because YOU CAN'T STOP IT BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO POWER OVER IT. This isn't her giving you any ground, because the child being able to do whatever it wants when its old enough to seek advice from Girl-Age on her future Lesbian encounters is implicit no matter what you two decide.

I have created an illustration to explain how your next argument should go:

The most important thing to keep in mind is that you're right. As long as you keep this in sight, she should be an Atheist by weeks end and you can stop living in the car.

 

[fifasnipe2224]

when am I supposed to believe you?


Did your Dad throw you out, or did he say the two of you were going to have a chat, to which you laughed at him and left?

which was it?

Believe me? I am looking for advice, not showing off. No reason to lie when I clearly need help.

First he said I was not welcomed anymore then said we will have a long talk. Not specific as to what about. probably to tell me I am kicked out.

 

[Devolution]

Yes. A bit, to be fair I was not able to fully get me view out there prior to these recent conversations.
We tried clearing this and several times she has agreed with me. I honest think her family is the one pressuring her into getting our child baptized and forced into the religion.

Baptism isn't really going to do much to her. It's just the sprinkling of water. If you're worried about the slippery slope this creates with other such decisions you're going to need to learn to pick and choose your battles better. Baptism is on the very low end of "forcing religion" if at all. What you have to look forward to now is your daughter possibly going to Church, possibly going to a religious school and holidays. Since your little freak out and isolating everyone from your perspective, it will now be harder to challenge these things. You could let these things happen and just stay on as the "other perspective" but so far what I'm gleaming from you is it's atheist rules or nothing. This won't really help your daughter out so much as polarize the situation and make for a stressful time as she tries to navigate mom's background with dad's authoritarian stances on being non-religious.

 

[J-Rod]

I hope you enjoy that "warm feeling of winning" against that "monster" who is the mother of your child.

 

[Korey]

Your intentions are good, but he has already jeopardized his legal rights to his daughter in the case a divorce is thrown at the table.
That's why the best thing to do is to get his act together, sure, but also kiss up to his entire family and hope they'll take him back.

The baptism thing isn't even that big of a deal if you can ensure that your daughter's critical thinking abilities are developed - which you'll have an easier time doing if you're not just seeing her every other weekend.

The OP is 100% right in my opinion, but unfortunately reality doesn't always side up with how we feel.

can you elaborate on how he's screwed legally?

Everyone else needs to replace "catholic" with "scientology"

 

[Log4Girlz]

I should have known GAF would be infested with a bunch of spineless compromises. You know who else compromised? Neville Chamberlain. Don't let Hitler baptize your child, OP. She wants a 40 day introduction course today, but tomorrow she'll be demanding a strip of the Polish corridor. There is only one way out of here alive: It's IDEOLOGICAL WARRIOR TIME.



That is not a compromise, that is a capitulation. She probably proposed this to you because she thinks you're an idiot. First of all, nobody should be baptized as a Greek Orthodox because LOL GREEK ORTHODOXY. They may have a badass Byzantine Eagle as a logo, but it's a bunch of loons. More so than the comparatively reasonable catholic church. They fingerbang a few twelve year olds from time to time, but they're OK to sit down and have dinner with because they have science educations. Then there's the Church of England who are the largest collection of strangely robed Atheists on the planet, they're cool too.

Secondly, her position is laughable. "Let's raise the child as a Greek Orthodox Christian, then when its older it can leave if it wants". Yeah, of course it can leave when its older, that's because YOU CAN'T STOP IT BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO POWER OVER IT. This isn't her giving you any ground, because the child being able to do whatever it wants when its old enough to seek advice from Girl-Age on her future Lesbian encounters is implicit no matter what you two decide.

I have created an illustration to explain how your next argument should go:

The most important thing to keep in mind is that you're right. As long as you keep this in sight, she should be an Atheist by weeks end and you can stop living in the car.

Woah NSFW.

 

[thefit]

I can sorta relate to the op, sorta. My wife and I are both atheist from catholic families and our kids are not baptized and never will. Difference here is my wife really doesn't give a shit about religion at all and we both have zero pressure from our families because although catholic both our families would hardly be considered observant except for the occasional wedding and funeral.

We both know they might want to be religious later in life and we both agree that's their right. Also, we aren't militant atheist either we live and let live and we have never been apposed to our kids going on church sponsored activities that their friends have invited them to (although I have regrets later because then they ask me "who's this God" guy )

Seems to me OP you have a born again situation on your hands and I hope you can both meet in the middle somehow

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

can you elaborate on how he's screwed legally?

He's a man, doesn't own the house and they have possession of the child.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

can you elaborate on how he's screwed legally?

By leaving the mother and child (even if he was "forced" out by his father"), and alienating his entire family who'll most likely side with the mother in the event of a legal dispute?
Combined with the fact that fathers in generally are screwed over in these cases, I'd say that he should do his best avoiding the legal option.

 

[fifasnipe2224]

Can we meet in real life? I can guarantee you the manlyst of man hugs ever.

 

[Korey]

By leaving the mother and child (even if he was "forced" out by his father"), and alienating his entire family who'll most likely side with the mother in the event of a legal dispute?

I agree then, and that was the point of my last point. If he can't do the above then he needs to pretend and play along until he can.

1) Do everything necessary to ensure custody of daughter.

2) Cut off all ties with insane religious family.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

I agree then, and that was the point of my last point. If he can't do the above then he needs to pretend and play along until he can.

Yeah, that's unfortunately the case (I also doubt the OP has the money for a legal dispute).

Sometimes, people in the right just have to shut up and put up with the crazy nonsense of everyone surrounding them.

 

[Devolution]

I agree then, and that was the point of my last point. If he can't do the above then he needs to pretend and play along until he can.

1) Do everything necessary to ensure custody of daughter.

2) Cut off all ties with insane religious family.

They don't seem insane. Do you just take this route with everyone who shows any sort of religious leanings?

 

[bananas]

I agree then, and that was the point of my last point. If he can't do the above then he needs to pretend and play along until he can.

1) Do everything necessary to ensure custody of daughter.

2) Cut off all ties with insane religious family.

3) Cut off all ties with religious people altogether! NO COMPROMISES!

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

They don't seem insane. Do you just take this route with everyone who shows any sort of religious leanings?

Dunno about insane, but they are definitely unreasonable if they are so intolerant of irreligious people and unable to realize the difference between raising someone as an Atheist and allowing the child to decide for itself. They mean well, since they're trying to look out for the kid's soul or whatever, but they're not looking at this clearly.

 

[Devolution]

Dunno about insane, but they are definitely unreasonable if they are so intolerant of irreligious people and unable to realize the difference between raising someone as an Atheist and allowing the child to decide for itself. They mean well, since they're trying to look out for the kid's soul or whatever, but they're not looking at this clearly.

Baptism doesn't mean raising the child in the Church. A bunch of my friends are baptized but lapsed as all hell.

 

[Dice]

Then there's the Church of England who are the largest collection of strangely robed Atheists on the planet, they're cool too.

 

[bananas]

Dunno about insane, but they are definitely unreasonable if they are so intolerant of irreligious people and unable to realize the difference between raising someone as an Atheist and allowing the child to decide for itself. They mean well, since they're trying to look out for the kid's soul or whatever, but they're not looking at this clearly.

Fighting intolerance with intolerance doesn't solve anything either.

 

[KtSlime]

I did. You should've just let your kid be baptized because it ultimately doesn't mean anything and you would have destroyed your relationship with your GF and your parents.

But should atheists concede all meaningless rituals to the theists just to not rock the boat? They won't make much progress that way. Although, in this situation, I agree that since his whole living situation is dependent on him concealing his beliefs, he might be wise to continue as before and remain silent.

 

[Angry Fork]

People saying the baptism thing isn't a big deal since it's meaningless are right but aren't getting the real point imo. The fact that she went behind his back and everyone has treated him like shit because he's against is the real issue. Even if he could have avoided everything by just doing what she wanted that doesn't excuse the treatment after he didn't (and doesn't explain why he should have to submit to everything anyway, it's his kid too). This event has shown people's true colors for better or worse.

But it's somewhat annoying that people are chastising OP for not wanting to bend over for crazy people. Imagine if you had a kid and everyone around you wanted to hang it upside down, paint a red X on it's stomach and then shave it's head. It may be pointless but it's fucking creepy as shit, would you want someone doing that to your kid? But the whole dunking head underwater while everyone watches is okay? Nobody should defend these scary cult rituals.

 

[Oppo]

That is a tough one OP. A really tough one.

For my part I totally agree with you. And I would have said a lot of the same things in that situation. Yes baptism is a "meaningless ritual" but I still don't feel good about doing things like getting up in front of my family and swearing fealty to a god I don't care about. Words do still mean something. And I say that as much out of respect for the church's institutions, as I do my own beliefs.

You are in a really difficult position now. I'm not even sure what advice to offer you. I'd definitely have a huge issue with my parents, who clearly aren't following the loving tenants of their own faith btw, and there would be repercussions about that. As for the wife, it sounds like she is using this issue to specifically drive a wedge between you. She may well try to take your kid in custody. And you'll probably lose.

So for now I would cool it, see how you can patch things up, but it's going to be on you to basically try to "balance" your mom in terms of faith views, for the rest of your / your kid's life, essentially.

good luck. that's just... really rough.

p.s. I was baptized, or so I'm told. IT REALLY DIDN'T TAKE

p.p.s. for my part I wouldn't fucking apologize to anyone. you were wronged and your baby was denied a choice.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

It sounds like your pride just fucked things up pretty well for you.

MULTIPLE times in your post, you mentioned how you NEVER admitted you were wrong, how she had multiple times and even posted a 3-0 "score"?!

What the fuck is wrong with you?

You, in your little pride game you were playing, just lost your house and daughter because you think a little water over the head will magically turn your daughter into a religious person? Did it do it to you? No.

So what's the problem?

You need to get your shit straight and your pride in check. And I sure as hell hope you realize you're as fanatical as the Christian fundamentalists you likely make fun of are. The only difference is you're a fanatical atheist with an ego issue.

/thread

 

[I'm an expert]

For fuck's sake, OP, you made probably the worst decision with every situation you were confronted with from the beginning of your relationship with this woman to where you are now. Yes, I read your entire post. You fucked up, you fucked up good, and you never should have brought a baby into this world as such a fuck up.

And I say this as a someone who was raised in a Christian home, went to private school his whole life, and is still a devout athiest since my teenage years. You tried to force your own "non-beliefs" onto your baby as much as your girlfriend. And look where you ended up.

Word of advice for any fellas out there, when it comes to kids, what the woman thinks before the baby and after will change. Her family, friends, and society will all have a profound effect on how she views things. Men don't experience this the same way as women. As a man, you will always start off on the "losing side" when it comes to serious matters. Your common sense and maturity will guide you on the right paths to the right "battles", but in the end know that the bond a mother will have for their child will always trump the bond they have with you.

 

[RagnarokX]

Like it or not, exposing children to religion is the social norm.

And splashing some water onto an 8 month old's head is hardly forcing an entire religion.

You're taking my post out of context. Exposing kids to religion is normal, and I said that 1 ritual isn't going to brainwash a kid. But indoctrinating kids in a religion is not parenting, and letting a kid choose what they believe is not going to put them on the 5 o'clock news, which is what I was replying to; that you shouldn't let kids choose ever. All the OP had to do was go along with what his GF wanted while teaching his daughter to stay open minded and making sure that she doesn't feel that parental love and support is dependent on her beliefs.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

But should atheists concede all meaningless rituals to the theists just to not rock the boat? They won't make much progress that way. Although, in this situation, I agree that since his whole living situation is dependent on him concealing his beliefs, he might be wise to continue as before and remain silent.

I think the key thing to understand is that baptism is -- at the end of the day -- a purely symbolic gesture. Could it be the first of many compromises? I suppose. But in and of itself it's a small concession that many people just tend to think of as important despite it not amounting to a whole lot of anything. We're not talking about something like circumcision here where it's an irreversible action.

 

[Pachinko]

This sounds like a shitty situation for all involved and like all science vs religion debates there just simply won't be a solution that will make everyone happy. The closest you are going to get is to basically let the girlfriend have her way for now and with proper education your child should come to the logical (correct) conclusion that it's all bullshit on her own.

As for relationships with your family, I'd say it's in your best interests to just suck it up and apologize. Stay there and plan to get out as soon as you can, if your parents actually give any kind of a shit about you or their grandkid they'll let you back in the house.

 

[Devolution]

People saying the baptism thing isn't a big deal since it's meaningless are right but aren't getting the real point imo. The fact that she went behind his back and everyone has treated him like shit because he's against is the real issue. Even if he could have avoided everything by just doing what she wanted that doesn't excuse the treatment after he didn't (and doesn't explain why he should have to submit to everything anyway, it's his kid too). This event has shown people's true colors for better or worse.

But it's somewhat annoying that people are chastising OP for not wanting to bend over for crazy people. Imagine if you had a kid and everyone around you wanted to hang it upside down, paint a red X on it's stomach and then shave it's head. It may be pointless but it's fucking creepy as shit, would you want someone doing that to your kid? But the whole dunking head underwater while everyone watches is okay? Nobody should defend these scary cult rituals.

They're not crazy they've just been socialized to think certain traditions and rituals are important. This is why people get so "omg gaf is so anti-religious it's annoying." You're not separating the issues stemming from religion from the people. You're just outright insulting believers.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Baptism doesn't mean raising the child in the Church. A bunch of my friends are baptized but lapsed as all hell.

Majority of current Atheists were baptized, including myself, but that's not exactly the point. In OP it states that in addition to baptism, the girlfriend wants the Child to be taught Greek Orthodoxy but not any other religions (education in many religions is what Fifasnape wanted). Their whole side of the family is apparently intolerant of Atheism, with even the girlfriend saying she wouldn't have dated OP if she'd known he was an Atheist to begin with. They don't want a compromise, they want to raise the kid as a Christian, no buts.

 

[saltinekracka]

It sounds like a lot of stuff was said in the heat of the moment. I don't think your dad really wants you sleeping in your car, and I don't know that you really want to kick your gf to the curb. Take a breath, think things over, and all you guys need to talk. Pride has no place in such a delicate situation.

 

[kiunchbb]

There are no way to win this game, focus on damage control. This is not the time to save face or be an Atheist knight in shining armor, all will be lost if she ditch you with your daughter.

I think it is more important to consider rather you want to stay with the mother or not, unless you surrender, the same conflict will always reappear till the day one of you died or divorced.

What is the point of getting back with her just to be separate again, if you want to introduce your daughter to atheist, you can always do it during your visition time.

If you want to stay with the mother and daughter full time, just let they do what they want, after they hit ~15 you can start introduce her to all different types of option. Just be patient, think about how many people grew up in religious family, and ended up being atheist, there are no point on rushing anything. Even if she ended up staying in that religion, as long as she get a good education and moral, she can still be a successful and nice human being.

As my last advice, religion is not open for argument, don't ever try that again. It is not you're fault, but you have to make the sacrafice since she had the advantages.

 

[Oppo]

For fuck's sake, OP, you made probably the worst decision with every situation you were confronted with from the beginning of your relationship with this woman to where you are now. Yes, I read your entire post. You fucked up, you fucked up good, and you never should have brought a baby into this world as such a fuck up.

And I say this as a someone who was raised in a Christian home, went to private school his whole life, and is still a devout athiest since my teenage years. You tried to force your own "non-beliefs" onto your baby as much as your girlfriend. And look where you ended up.

Word of advice for any fellas out there, when it comes to kids, what the woman thinks before the baby and after will change. Her family, friends, and society will all have a profound effect on how she views things. Men don't experience this the same way as women. As a man, you will always start off on the "losing side" when it comes to serious matters. Your common sense and maturity will guide you on the right paths to the right "battles", but in the end know that the bond a mother will have for their child will always trump the bond they have with you.

WTF is this shit.

"take it from me fellas, the ladies will change!"

seriously every word of this post is just pure horseshit. you didn't even say HOW he "fucked up". women's relationship trumps yours. nonsense.

 

[KtSlime]

I think the key thing to understand is that baptism is -- at the end of the day -- a purely symbolic gesture. Could it be the first of many compromises? I suppose. But in and of itself it's a small concession that many people just tend to think of as important despite it not amounting to a whole lot of anything. We're not talking about something like circumcision here where it's an irreversible action.

Yeah, OP is lucky he doesn't have to deal with making decisions for his son. My problem is that people think of this as "important", it's not, and the longer we allow people to continue to think the performing of superstitious rituals as important, the further down the wrong path we go.

 

[Kinitari]

They're not crazy they've just been socialized to think certain traditions and rituals are important. This is why people get so "omg gaf is so anti-religious it's annoying." You're not separating the issues stemming from religion from the people. You're just outright insulting believers.

I think the language is a little volatile, but I get what he's saying - he's just trying to highlight the inanity of it all. Why not call it for what it is, why not bring attention to how these social norms seem 'crazy' to you? I'm usually pretty respectful, but if it came to my child, I would not bite my tongue to save someone's pride:

"This stuff is crazy, I don't want any of your magic water on my child" might be something I say to someone if they started pressuring me to do so, just to really drive home how ridiculous I think what they are doing is, and how little respect I have for it.

 

[Devolution]

Majority of current Atheists were baptized, including myself, but that's not exactly the point. In OP it states that in addition to baptism, the girlfriend wants the Child to be taught Greek Orthodoxy but not any other religions (education in many religions is what Fifasnape wanted). Their whole side of the family is apparently intolerant of Atheism, with even the girlfriend saying she wouldn't have dated OP if she'd known he was an Atheist to begin with. They don't want a compromise, they want to raise the kid as a Christian, no buts.

And yet he hasn't presented his side in a manner that's not insulting to the mother of his kid and just as much ideologically fair as he proposes to raise the child. He came down hard on Baptism and now he's out of the house without his daughter. He could easily come to decisions with her about Church going, schooling and being brought up that way but he's been acting quite immature. People calling them crazy just because they feel strongly in their belief system isn't going to help his situation.

I think the language is a little volatile, but I get what he's saying - he's just trying to highlight the inanity of it all. Why not call it for what it is, why not bring attention to how these social norms seem 'crazy' to you? I'm usually pretty respectful, but if it came to my child, I would not bite my tongue to save someone's pride:

"This stuff is crazy, I don't want any of your magic water on my child" might be something I say to someone if they started pressuring me to do so, just to really drive home how ridiculous I think what they are doing is, and how little respect I have for it.

And then good luck to you keeping anyone on your side when you mutter such things. If it's not such a big deal in general, why is it that big of a deal to do in the first place. Seems to me like some people want to prioritize non-belief just as much as belief, then wonder why they have such push back. I understand it's his daughter but it's also her daughter. You start talking about how something is crazy and stupid, see how far that gets you.