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AusGAF 8 - Worksafe Wankers

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Religious groups should have the freedom to hire whoever they want when that position can be considered pastoral. Otherwise how far does it go? Will my church be shut down because of clear discrimination based on the fact that we wouldn't employ a Muslim as our minister? For stuff like admin staff, support positions, etc, it changes.
While I can understand that logic, I can't agree totally. Firstly, I think there is a certain amount of common sense that a person should employ when applying for a job. Should a Muslin be applying for a Christian Minister position? Probabaly not, for a number of reasons; the most obvious reason being that a devout Muslim shouldn't be teaching the scriptures of another belief system. Should a church hire someone who isn't qualified? Not in the slightest, nor should they be compelled to by law, much like any other job that requires qualifications from their applicants.

However, being able to openly discriminate against people who's life choices they don't agree with is not something that anyone should be able to do. Especially from an organisation that preaches openness, forgiveness understanding and equality for all people under their God.
 

Dead Man

Member
Would a non-religious person be qualified to be a teacher in a religious school? If a school is presented to parents as a place to send their children to receive religious instruction as well as a secular education, is it not reasonable for parents to have the expectation that the teachers at the school hold the values that they are expecting them to teach to their children?

Is the teacher a teacher of religion, or a teacher of maths? If a teacher of maths is presented with a question of religion, I would hope they send the asker to the teacher of religion, and vice versa.
 

legend166

Member
But they should. That is all most people are saying. I have no problem with churches not hiring whoever they want or don't. I do have a problem when they have tax free status and get to do that.

No, what I mean is that the laws don't apply in secular society for that reason. They exist because the government, by the will of the people, have reasonably determined that employers should not be able to discriminate when hiring based on a variety of factors. It has nothing to do with whether you receive public funds or not.
 

Yagharek

Member
However, being able to openly discriminate against people who's life choices they don't agree with is not something that anyone should be able to do. Especially from an organisation that preaches openness, forgiveness understanding and equality for all people under their God.

The killer here is, some of these life choices aren't even choices. Nature rules.

Is the teacher a teacher of religion, or a teacher of maths? If a teacher of maths is presented with a question of religion, I would hope they send the asker to the teacher of religion, and vice versa.

Further, in my experience, I'd rather not have anyone religious teaching biology classes.
 

Dead Man

Member
No, what I mean is that the laws don't apply in secular society for that reason. They exist because the government, by the will of the people, have reasonably determined that employers should not be able to discriminate when hiring based on a variety of factors. It has nothing to do with whether you receive public funds or not.

Ah. In which case churches should still not be able to discriminate. If someone is qualified for the job they are qualified, and if they are not, then they are not.
 

Rezbit

Member
Would a non-religious person be qualified to be a teacher in a religious school? If a school is presented to parents as a place to send their children to receive religious instruction as well as a secular education, is it not reasonable for parents to have the expectation that the teachers at the school hold the values that they are expecting them to teach to their children?

Yes. Within the curriculum how much religious ethos is built-in is entirely up to the school, but the teacher will follow the curriculum accordingly. Being religious or not doesn't have a bearing on their ability to teach. Those teachers don't run around yelling "I'm not religious!" of course, they have to be respectful of the particular religion. It's usually a bit of a mix, in my limited experiences in a couple of religious schools.
 

legend166

Member
Is the teacher a teacher of religion, or a teacher of maths? If a teacher of maths is presented with a question of religion, I would hope they send the asker to the teacher of religion, and vice versa.

Well that's the question though, isn't it? If a religious school wants to establish a particular environment that requires that all the teachers adhere to a certain set of values, it might not be as easy to say where one aspect of the job begins, and another one ends. That goes into the question of qualifications. People say "if a teacher is qualified, they should be allowed to do the job." But who determines the qualifications? Even in a secular school the qualifications don't simply end at 'can teach math'.

I dunno, I genuinely think it's a tough one. I can see where you guys are coming from. I just think it's encroaching on the freedom of religion whereby the government can tell a religious group who they can and cannot hire when that person will be in some sort of a position of pastoral care. I have no problems with them telling them that they're not allowed to not hire a janitor because he's gay.
 
If someone is appropriately qualified to teach something, and is respectful of it, who cares what they actually believe?

There are many scientists who believe in creationism, how is that any different?

And wait, you're saying it's OK to not hire someone to clean a school because they're gay? Convicted sex criminals, sure, but just gay?
 

Omikron

Member
Well that's the question though, isn't it? If a religious school wants to establish a particular environment that requires that all the teachers adhere to a certain set of values, it might not be as easy to say where one aspect of the job begins, and another one ends. That goes into the question of qualifications. People say "if a teacher is qualified, they should be allowed to do the job." But who determines the qualifications? Even in a secular school the qualifications don't simply end at 'can teach math'.

I dunno, I genuinely think it's a tough one. I can see where you guys are coming from. I just think it's encroaching on the freedom of religion whereby the government can tell a religious group who they can and cannot hire when that person will be in some sort of a position of pastoral care. I have no problems with them telling them that they're not allowed to not hire a janitor because he's gay.

What if they have the qualifications, religious belief and are gay? Can they teach? or is the janitorial position the only appropriate one?
 
Darwin is an interesting inclusion, I really should read up more on that place, all I have really heard is horror stories from people who have worked up there.
I've only heard horror stories about it being an awful place to grow up :p Take that, list.

midonnay is never coming back, is he?
;.; But then who will I talk to about my wonderful heisig progress!?

Would a non-religious person be qualified to be a teacher in a religious school? If a school is presented to parents as a place to send their children to receive religious instruction as well as a secular education, is it not reasonable for parents to have the expectation that the teachers at the school hold the values that they are expecting them to teach to their children?
I imagine there are some subjects (like language education) where it might be harder to find a christian teacher. That said, there's nothing wrong with them having a preference for Christian teachers. There is something wrong with them wanting a preference for straight/male/white/whatever teachers. I mean, I'm pretty sure religious school favour children of the same denomination over other Christians and children of other religions.

also

i've never owned a tablet and i really want one ;___;

though given the amount of note-taking i'll have to do this semester i probably can't justify something without a keyboard :/
Nexus 7 looked pretty good. The smaller size makes it really easy to hold and type (my thumbs can reach all the buttons - you don't even need a separate keyboard), and it also makes is a lot cheaper!

Do religious schools teach evolution and let kids play with dinosaurs? I should probably look into that soon.

No rep, put your son into the superior public system!
 

Lafiel

と呼ぶがよい
Just picked up Dragons Dogma for PS3 via cash converters for $25. Perfect timing, since I only have like one boss left in Dark Souls.
Well well..

an-city-300x0.jpg



No more hating on Tazzie now.
Mmm, I wonder where Geelong ranks on this list.:p


Do religious schools teach evolution and let kids play with dinosaurs? I should probably look into that soon.
I'm pretty sure EVERY religious school in australia teaches evolution. They might be a few exceptions however, but as far as I know, no school religious or otherwise teaches creationism. I'd be saddened if I was proven wrong on this though.
 

Salazar

Member
I imagine there are some subjects (like language education) where it might be harder to find a christian teacher. That said, there's nothing wrong with them having a preference for Christian teachers.

My (Anglican) high school pretty clearly had a scheme of hiring husband and wife teachers.
 

magenta

Member
Do religious schools teach evolution and let kids play with dinosaurs? I should probably look into that soon.

My religious school taught evolution and creationism was denounced in the first week of religion class. This isn't America.

In fact I don't even think they get a say in the curriculum.
 

Dead Man

Member
Public school kids are always more awesome. +1 to knife skills too!

Too right.

Well that's the question though, isn't it? If a religious school wants to establish a particular environment that requires that all the teachers adhere to a certain set of values, it might not be as easy to say where one aspect of the job begins, and another one ends. That goes into the question of qualifications. People say "if a teacher is qualified, they should be allowed to do the job." But who determines the qualifications? Even in a secular school the qualifications don't simply end at 'can teach math'.

I dunno, I genuinely think it's a tough one. I can see where you guys are coming from. I just think it's encroaching on the freedom of religion whereby the government can tell a religious group who they can and cannot hire when that person will be in some sort of a position of pastoral care. I have no problems with them telling them that they're not allowed to not hire a janitor because he's gay.

I think a teacher of non religious subjects should not be considered a position of pastoral care. They are there to teach a syllabus, not provide for the religious wellbeing of the students. Unless they make every teacher also be a seminary graduate?
 

Yagharek

Member
In some cases, there are parts of religions that would disagree with you.


They are still wrong.


What if they have the qualifications, religious belief and are gay? Can they teach? or is the janitorial position the only appropriate one?

This. I dont see why they should have the right to discriminate based on a persons inherent makeup. Someone who is blind, deaf, black, white, aboriginal, asian, inuit, collingwood supporting, paraplegic, or any number other of physical traits, acquired or inherent to the person would not be legally discriminated against so long as they were qualified and competent at doing the job.

But if they are gay? Even if they are devout christians and celibate in the case of clergy members - then the churches have legal protection to kick them out on their backside without any legal recourse.

It's not fair, and it smacks of a discriminatory and backwards attitude from those who would seek to justify or practice this kind of bigotry.

I just think it's encroaching on the freedom of religion whereby the government can tell a religious group who they can and cannot hire when that person will be in some sort of a position of pastoral care.

Why should religious freedom be allowed to impinge on other peoples freedom? I'm still at the stage where I'm not satisfied by any of the unspoken answers asserting that they should be afforded that right. It's hypocritical to assert that you are loving/inclusive/welcoming etc then seek to exclude a not insignificant portion of society because of biology.

Further, what about 'religious freedom'? The churches around the country already have vast amounts of wealth tied up in property, tax free, and in many towns they own so much infrastructure thanks to their advantageous position that they can have direct, damaging and debilitating impacts on local economies. I know this is only tangentially related to the topic at hand, but there are so many freedoms and privelliges afforded to these institutions that it is a bit rich to see them crying "but what about our freedom?!"
 

Kritz

Banned
I don't really like 10,000,000. It was pretty hyped up by the phone gaming types, and I only now bothered to get it on Steam.

For those of y'all out of the loop, 10,000,000 is two games genres playing simultaneously. The top third of the screen is a runner, the bottom two thirds of the screen is a match-3 game. The top third of the screen is essentially just an output - you don't ever 'play' the runner, you simply affect it via the actions of the match-3 game. If in the runner, the player hits the left of the screen, or is killed by a monster, both games end and you're dumped to a menu.

In the match-3 game, you're not really matching jewels as you are matching actions. If you match three swords, you try and attack what's in front of you. If you match keys, you try to unlock, if you match shields you get some health, if you match pouches you find items.

Matches can last anywhere from 30 seconds to about 3 minutes. There is a win condition to the matches, which rewards you in some bonus XP and resources. But I have never once since the first 2-3 levels. The game is hard. Not challenging hard, mind you. It's frustrating.

There are two common ways I fail in 10,000,000. The first is I simply can't match fast enough. Well, okay, this is actually both ways. But, the first way is that I can see the matches and I'm simply not doing them fast enough. That's not too bad, although it's certainly annoying to be matching the 3-5 gems you want the millisecond AFTER you fail, voiding your success and throwing you back to the game over screen. However, this is usually caused by an artefact of the second way I lose - there aren't enough very specific jems to match up to do this very specific thing I need to do. That is to say, yo why do I always run out of keys.

So, if you're at a chest, you have to unlock it. And they require two keys to unlock, or alternatively if you match four keys together, it will unlock both at once. The problem stems from having only a few keys on your board, and going through incredibly stressful, tedious acrobatics to match (or generate and then match) these keys together. I can't really explain it to anyone who hasn't played the game, but the way the movement of gems works is a little counter intuitive, and when gems are separated, it's incredibly hard to get them to fit together.

I could go on about how the metagame is dull or how it's baffling the objective system in 10,000,000 is so annoying when Jetpack Joyride's was so satisfying. I could mention how upgrades are sterile, how little affect they have on the game, how there's no sense of persistence or advancement, or how Jetpack Joyride is better at everything than this game.

But I won't, because I don't want to write anymore. Which is kind of a weird trend in my longer posts where I get so tired thinking of the subject matter of my posts I end before I reach any kind of conclusion.

I don't think 10,000,000 is a very good game. Its genre mixing doesn't work well, some of the meta game decisions are poor, there's not enough sense of reward versus the overwhelming sense of failure, and on top of all of that you can't even buy a sweet tux and royal crown and be this motherfuckin high rollin' motherfucker flying through the world on a golden dragon collecting money and jewels you don't even fucking need.
 
My (Anglican) high school pretty clearly had a scheme of hiring husband and wife teachers.

I'm trying very hard not to make a "that's adorable" squeal noise.

Dunno if he will end up public if we stay here, the nice school here we looked at was some kind of demonification of religious thingy.

Well after hearing some of your recent tales maybe private might be the way to go :p Single Sex schools are dumb though. Don't send him to one of them.
 

Shaneus

Member
More hypocrisy, this time from rock paper shotgun
I have no issues with the crazy half naked torn up body. I guess I don't get what all the fuss is when you can go out and buy crazy horror memorabilia and have been able to for fucking ever.

If you loved the game that much then by all means, go mad and buy it.
Ugh how annoying. Good on shopto PR, eff that guy. I also have no problem with the boobs torso especially considering it's a violent zombie game.
Dare I say it, RPS dude was beaten down pretty heavily there. White knighting something like like can't make you look good to anyone. And isn't he barking up the wrong bush anyway by going after a place like ShopTo?
 

Salazar

Member
I'm trying very hard not to make a "that's adorable" squeal noise.

Pretty sure the (married to another teacher) Head of Senior School had it away with the (married to another teacher) convenor of Japanese.

I'm sure the philosophy of it holds up most of the time, but it does sort of increase the explosive radius of any failures of Christian will.
 

legend166

Member
Why is it possible to get around Amazon's region restrictions for video games and Kindle books, but impossible for MP3s?

I refuse to buy my music through iTunes and not every band is smart enough to sell digital direct through their website. I want to give these people my money but they won't take it.
 

Yagharek

Member
Dare I say it, RPS dude was beaten down pretty heavily there. White knighting something like like can't make you look good to anyone. And isn't he barking up the wrong bush anyway by going after a place like ShopTo?

Of course he was, but he was on a crusade of stupidity and got shown up as a fool by the shopto rep.
 

Rahk

Member
I don't really like 10,000,000. It was pretty hyped up by the phone gaming types, and I only now bothered to get it on Steam.

For those of y'all out of the loop, 10,000,000 is two games genres playing simultaneously. The top third of the screen is a runner, the bottom two thirds of the screen is a match-3 game. The top third of the screen is essentially just an output - you don't ever 'play' the runner, you simply affect it via the actions of the match-3 game. If in the runner, the player hits the left of the screen, or is killed by a monster, both games end and you're dumped to a menu.

In the match-3 game, you're not really matching jewels as you are matching actions. If you match three swords, you try and attack what's in front of you. If you match keys, you try to unlock, if you match shields you get some health, if you match pouches you find items.

Matches can last anywhere from 30 seconds to about 3 minutes. There is a win condition to the matches, which rewards you in some bonus XP and resources. But I have never once since the first 2-3 levels. The game is hard. Not challenging hard, mind you. It's frustrating.

There are two common ways I fail in 10,000,000. The first is I simply can't match fast enough. Well, okay, this is actually both ways. But, the first way is that I can see the matches and I'm simply not doing them fast enough. That's not too bad, although it's certainly annoying to be matching the 3-5 gems you want the millisecond AFTER you fail, voiding your success and throwing you back to the game over screen. However, this is usually caused by an artefact of the second way I lose - there aren't enough very specific jems to match up to do this very specific thing I need to do. That is to say, yo why do I always run out of keys.

So, if you're at a chest, you have to unlock it. And they require two keys to unlock, or alternatively if you match four keys together, it will unlock both at once. The problem stems from having only a few keys on your board, and going through incredibly stressful, tedious acrobatics to match (or generate and then match) these keys together. I can't really explain it to anyone who hasn't played the game, but the way the movement of gems works is a little counter intuitive, and when gems are separated, it's incredibly hard to get them to fit together.

I could go on about how the metagame is dull or how it's baffling the objective system in 10,000,000 is so annoying when Jetpack Joyride's was so satisfying. I could mention how upgrades are sterile, how little affect they have on the game, how there's no sense of persistence or advancement, or how Jetpack Joyride is better at everything than this game.

But I won't, because I don't want to write anymore. Which is kind of a weird trend in my longer posts where I get so tired thinking of the subject matter of my posts I end before I reach any kind of conclusion.

I don't think 10,000,000 is a very good game. Its genre mixing doesn't work well, some of the meta game decisions are poor, there's not enough sense of reward versus the overwhelming sense of failure, and on top of all of that you can't even buy a sweet tux and royal crown and be this motherfuckin high rollin' motherfucker flying through the world on a golden dragon collecting money and jewels you don't even fucking need.
I like it. I'm playing it on my phone rather than PC though.

To help with the key problem, key items are somewhat common and a single one will unlock the whole chest. There are also scrolls which add more keys to the board.

Sometimes the board is fucked up and you can't seem to make any matches, but I just take that as being dealt a shitty hand and play again. I don't ever get the feeling of failure, since you're always going to die no matter what. You just try to get as far as possible.

I haven't had a problem with the objective system yet, but maybe it gets more difficult later? Gaining exp, gold etc. to make my dude better in combat is enough reward for me. It doesn't have all the flashy abilities of Jetpack Joyride, but advancement is there. It would be nice if the upgrades were physically reflected on the character though.

I'm sure I won't be playing it for very long, but it should be a fun distraction on the phone every now and then.
 
Why is it possible to get around Amazon's region restrictions for video games and Kindle books, but impossible for MP3s?

I refuse to buy my music through iTunes and not every band is smart enough to sell digital direct through their website. I want to give these people my money but they won't take it.
I have to settle for importing retail copies sometimes due to my avoidance of iTunes. eBay can be helpful too. While acts are signed to publishers consumers will have to accept the fact that iTunes will get plenty of exclusive content.

Also Japanese exclusive tracks always annoyed me!
 

Shaneus

Member
Of course he was, but he was on a crusade of stupidity and got shown up as a fool by the shopto rep.
Who posted that picture... the RPS guy or ShopTo? I can't tell with those colours who said what. But if it was the RPS guy who posted it, expecting pats on the back from all and sundry, backfire total.

Every so often I hear good things about RPS, but it's stuff like that which holds me back from actively following them (and others).

Why is it possible to get around Amazon's region restrictions for video games and Kindle books, but impossible for MP3s?

I refuse to buy my music through iTunes and not every band is smart enough to sell digital direct through their website. I want to give these people my money but they won't take it.
I actually remember getting around it somehow. I think I bought a gift certificate/voucher in one transaction, then created another order and set my country as "US" (like when buying games) to buy it with the voucher code. Verify that with Mr. Google, though.

Actually... I don't think you can use gift certificates bought with the same account, so maybe (if you have a second one) buy a voucher for the cost of the item, then use that code with your main account to purchase it (changing the country). Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's how I did it.
 

Rezbit

Member
Lol games journalism. Dumbest shit ever. I get news from occasional forays into the gaming side, you guys, or I just remain blissfully ignorant of any pointless bullshit that's around.
 

Kritz

Banned
I agree with most of your points, rahk, and I agree that the items can make getting stuck a bit easier, but I feel that I have 'power weapon' mentality of hoarding items until I feel I absolutely need them, which results in me... never using them. Or feeling like crap when I do use them and lose 1-3 encounters later.

Also,


I've started working on a mockup new site design. Thoughts? Also, any thoughts on palpable ways to show visitors content that I could look into doing?

Current plan is to have a main page that contains every bit of content submission. Reviews, videos, games, blog posts, etc. Have them be filterable to search for specific tags, or exclude tags if you're interested in seeing videos and games but don't care for, say, reviews.

In addition I'd like to have a section of the site that's dedicated as a kind of port-folio of all of my games. Where you get a list of completed prototypes, abandoned works, in progress stuff, and then get a page that has videos / screenshots / writeups of each game. Kinda like Steam or Apple's individual game pages. The plan is to have something that looks semi-professional, something where people could link to friends and go, "hey you should check out this game".

(Yes I do design all of my websites in mspaint why do you ask)
 

Yagharek

Member
As a Christian I believe I am no position to judge anyone.

Unfortunately, those in positions of power do a damn fine job of judging anyone and everyone. Those are the hypocrites who need to be exposed.

Not all muslims are scary bad people, only a tiny minority of them are extremists.
Not all christians are fundamentalist bigots, only a tiny minority of them.

Lol games journalism. Dumbest shit ever. I get news from occasional forays into the gaming side, you guys, or I just remain blissfully ignorant of any pointless bullshit that's around.

However 99% of gaming journalists are mouth breathing buffoons.
 

Yagharek

Member
From abc:

"I'm not aware of any Christian organisation that has refused to hire anyone (based on their sexuality), and I've looked," Mr Wallace told reporters in Canberra.

"I'm not aware of any school that has expelled anyone... for homosexuality.

I'm aware of at least two. One is a christian school in Alice Springs which refused to hire someone who was gay. I heard that directly from someone on the interview panel. I also know a former christian brother in hobart who lost his position for being gay.

Wallace is lying.
 

Rahk

Member
I agree with most of your points, rahk, and I agree that the items can make getting stuck a bit easier, but I feel that I have 'power weapon' mentality of hoarding items until I feel I absolutely need them, which results in me... never using them. Or feeling like crap when I do use them and lose 1-3 encounters later.
I just use them whenever it seems like I won't find a match quickly. You seem to get them somewhat frequently.
 
I'm aware of at least two. One is a christian school in Alice Springs which refused to hire someone who was gay. I heard that directly from someone on the interview panel. I also know a former christian brother in hobart who lost his position for being gay.

Wallace is lying.
Just because it's legal doesn't mean that they'll openly admit to it. If they are smart (and I'll assume at least a base level of intelligence) they will not hire the person and give a different reason. There's no need to be honest and start a P.R. maelstrom for no reason.
 

Yagharek

Member
Just because it's legal doesn't mean that they'll openly admit to it. If they are smart (and I'll assume at least a base level of intelligence) they will not hire the person and give a different reason. There's no need to be honest and start a P.R. maelstrom for no reason.

If these sorts of people want to hold themselves up as arbiters of morality in society, they need to be seen to be doing the right thing as well as actually doing so. In these cases, they are lying which is a sin, as is breaking one of the commandments about not bearing false witness.

Simply put: hypocrisy.
 
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