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AusGAF 8 - Worksafe Wankers

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R

reptilescorpio

Member
Darklord said:
I'm going to try and get a refund for SimCity. It's unplayable me. I've been able to actually play twice since launch and both times ended up booted from the game and lost a sizable chunk of progress. Not to mention features, including basic core gameplay mechanics being turned off it's a waste of money. I've dealt with Diablo 3's launch, WoW, SWG, heaps of terrible launches but this, this takes the cake. Fucking hell EA, why did you have to ruin SimCity? :(
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If it's a digital copy you have zero chance of getting a refund. EA has already made that very clear.
 
C

CrazedProfessional

Member
shanshan310 said:
Somehow it ended up costing me $45 ><
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92Xn2JZ.gif

WELCOME TO THE DIGITAL FUTURE!~
 
J

Jintor

Member
Darklord said:
After looking it up by Australian Law they have too. Does that not apply to digital items?
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It might. Bring it to the ACCC and we'll see if we can have a tribunal ruling :lol :lol :lol

Sorry... consumer rights exist in theory [and, technically, in law], but enforcibility is another matter
 
M

markot

Banned
Darklord said:
After looking it up by Australian Law they have too. Does that not apply to digital items?
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It should apply to digital items too.
Demand a refund cause there is a major problem with the game, you dont have to wait for them to fix it and make it playable.
 
J

Jintor

Member
Hmmm... do I have a research essay for consumer law this semester? I should do one on digital goods and their standing in Au law...
 
M

markot

Banned
Jintor said:
Hmmm... do I have a research essay for consumer law this semester? I should do one on digital goods and their standing in Au law...
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I would research your allergy to good games! Itd make it into the lancet easy!

And youd get a nobel prize.

And they would call it Jintor Syndrome in your honour.
 
D

Deeku

Member
have you ever done that thing where you get pissed in a store or something and tell the dudes you're a law student and they've breached section i dno 52 of the tpa now cca and you demand yada yada?

cos i totally know heaps of people that have lol
 
D

Darklord

Banned
Jintor said:
It might. Bring it to the ACCC and we'll see if we can have a tribunal ruling :lol :lol :lol

Sorry... consumer rights exist in theory [and, technically, in law], but enforcibility is another matter
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I'm on to customer chat now. The guy kept saying he can't because of Origin policy. When I started throwing Australia Law at him I think it stumped him. He couldn't say the law is invalid but he can't say the origin policy is either and they both conflict so he's now passing me on to "The expert team" to help deal with it.
 
D

Dead Man

Member
So I don't want to wade into the main SC thread, so hopefully someone can answer my stupid question here. SC is always online and always coop, with towns in regions that are linked? What happens if you get left with dipshits in your region?
 
J

Jintor

Member
commanderdeek said:
have you ever done that thing where you get pissed in a store or something and tell the dudes you're a law student and they've breached section i dno 52 of the tpa now cca and you demand yada yada?

cos i totally know heaps of people that have lol
Click to expand...

no but that's because i'm a bad negotiator
 
J

Jintor

Member
But yeah, they *should* give you a refund under AU law. Of course, there's a few things to argue about... the main thing being that the nature of the goods you purchase is more akin to a digital subscription than a physical thing... which is admittedly a tedious point of law, but one that could be swung on, I suppose... not that an 'expert team' of consumer relations people will tell you that.

Danoss said:
If they have an online store that operates in this country, they are bound by the same laws a bricks and mortar one would be. Here it is on the Fair Trading site.
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The way the language reads on that site seems to imply that the only thing contemplated by the site is buying physical goods via online means and the situation might be different for digital goods... well, subscriptions, or licences, or whatever. *shrug* But don't tell that to their customer support. I think Serrels had an article up on this over the weekend specifically about getting a return on Sim City.
 
D

Danoss

Member
Jintor said:
The way the language reads on that site seems to imply that the only thing contemplated by the site is buying physical goods via online means and the situation might be different for digital goods... well, subscriptions, or licences, or whatever. *shrug* But don't tell that to their customer support. I think Serrels had an article up on this over the weekend specifically about getting a return on Sim City.
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See, I think that's a relatively easy thing to argue. The product in the end is identical, one is provided via DVD and the other by a download. In the end, they're both digital products. If I paid $5k for an Adobe Suite and they gave me a CD key that didn't work, should I be shit out of luck because I downloaded it instead of walking into the store? Of course not, and this is no different.

If EA don't give refunds and start banning accounts due to chargebacks, they best be in for a world of hurt. A perfect opportunity to nip this in the bud.
 
J

Jintor

Member
Danoss said:
See, I think that's a relatively easy thing to argue. The product in the end is identical, one is provided via DVD and the other by a download. In the end, they're both digital products. If I paid $5k for an Adobe Suite and they gave me a CD key that didn't work, should I be shit out of luck because I downloaded it instead of walking into the store? Of course not, and this is no different.
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Eh... I'd have to look it up more. But software is and has always been a fucking weird area of consumer law to tool around in because of its nature as an [end-user] digital product while being sold as physical retail goods (as CDs etc).
 
D

Danoss

Member
Jintor said:
Eh... I'd have to look it up more. But software is and has always been a fucking weird area of consumer law to tool around in because of its nature as an [end-user] digital product while being sold as physical retail goods (as CDs etc).
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What I meant by "nip it in the bud" is to clarify it. Obviously some companies, in this instance EA, are quite happy to abuse this. In no letter or spirit of the law would it be acceptable to sell a faulty product, refuse refunds and threaten to revoke access to other products.

The more society leans towards online tools and services, the more this is going to be a problem. There are dodgy retail stores like Harvey Norman just like there are dodgy digital sellers like EA.
 
D

Darklord

Banned
So apparently this guy couldn't give a refund but he's probably too low in the food chain to feel comfortable doing it anyway. He gave me come reference number and to call their expert team, whatever the hell that is, who only deal with this stuff by phone. Looks like I'll be calling tomorrow.

This pisses me off, I never ask for refunds but 5 days of not even being able to launch a game is crazy! MMO's aren't that bad. I might buy it again one day, when it's cheap and fixed.
 
J

Jintor

Member
Danoss said:
What I meant by "nip it in the bud" is to clarify it. Obviously some companies, in this instance EA, are quite happy to abuse this. In no letter or spirit of the law would it be acceptable to sell a faulty product, refuse refunds and threaten to revoke access to other products.

The more society leans towards online tools and services, the more this is going to be a problem. There are dodgy retail stores like Harvey Norman just like there are dodgy digital sellers like EA.
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Well, the main deal is that someone will have to bear the cost of nipping it in the bud. Maybe the ACCC if they decide they want to clarify the situation on digital goods in Australia.
 
D

Danoss

Member
Jintor said:
Well, the main deal is that someone will have to bear the cost of nipping it in the bud. Maybe the ACCC if they decide they want to clarify the situation on digital goods in Australia.
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It's one of the things we pay taxes for. We deserve the protection that they exist to provide.
 
R

reptilescorpio

Member
Sticky situation digital downloads. ACCC have bigger fish they are trying to fry up at the moment, if they can clear all that up maybe they can do a good push at DD games. Germany had a go at Steam recently!

Darklord said:
So apparently this guy couldn't give a refund but he's probably too low in the food chain to feel comfortable doing it anyway. He gave me come reference number and to call their expert team, whatever the hell that is, who only deal with this stuff by phone. Looks like I'll be calling tomorrow.

This pisses me off, I never ask for refunds but 5 days of not even being able to launch a game is crazy! MMO's aren't that bad. I might buy it again one day, when it's cheap and fixed.
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Hopefully you get a good expert tomorrow, they legally have to refund you under our laws (Serrels had a nice article on Kotaku about it) but the chances of them doing it is slim to none. The threats of going to ACCC won't do much unless the person you are talking to has had 20ish people call up and say that already.

Do you have other games on that Origin account? If the phone call doesn't go well you can always do a chargeback, EA will ban the account but you will get your money back (EA will also be hit with a $20 fee!).
 
B

BananaArnie

Member
Danoss said:
What I meant by "nip it in the bud" is to clarify it. Obviously some companies, in this instance EA, are quite happy to abuse this. In no letter or spirit of the law would it be acceptable to sell a faulty product, refuse refunds and threaten to revoke access to other products.

The more society leans towards online tools and services, the more this is going to be a problem. There are dodgy retail stores like Harvey Norman just like there are dodgy digital sellers like EA.
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oh how come HN are dodgy?
 
D

Danoss

Member
reptilescorpio said:
Sticky situation digital downloads. ACCC have bigger fish they are trying to fry up at the moment, if they can clear all that up maybe they can do a good push at DD games. Germany had a go at Steam recently!
Click to expand...

I understand this. I'm not saying this needs to go to the top of their to-do list, I'm saying this has to be done relatively soon. It's not a widespread issue at the moment, but there's a good chance it could be.

If people are saying it's not worth doing at all and it's not worth spending taxpayer money on, then we're in disagreement.

BananaArnie said:
oh how come HN are dodgy?
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This is something new?
 
P

Planet_JASE

Member
Dead Man said:
So I don't want to wade into the main SC thread, so hopefully someone can answer my stupid question here. SC is always online and always coop, with towns in regions that are linked? What happens if you get left with dipshits in your region?
Click to expand...
Then you done got dipshits in your area. You only response is how you would respond in real life: Put up with it or move. The only difference being in real life you would sell your house and bu a new house somewhere else. In the game you are forced to abandon all of your work, move to a different server and start again. From square one.

The problem with this game (fine; one of) is that you can't always play the game that you want. You're constantly reacting to what your neighbours are doing. If they've made an industrial city, the pressure will be on you to create nothing but residential housing, for example.

An interconnected world sounds great, but not when it restricts and dictates the game I wish to play.
 
D

Dead Man

Member
Planet_JASE said:
Then you done got dipshits in your area. You only response is how you would respond in real life: Put up with it or move. The only difference being in real life you would sell your house and bu a new house somewhere else. In the game you are forced to abandon all of your work, move to a different server and start again. From square one.

The problem with this game (fine; one of) is that you can't always play the game that you want. You're constantly reacting to what your neighbours are doing. If they've made an industrial city, the pressure will be on you to create nothing but residential housing, for example.

An interconnected world sounds great, but not when it restricts and dictates the game I wish to play.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Yeah, really sounds nothing like a simcity that I want to play.
 
C

codswallop

Member
Darklord said:
I'm going to try and get a refund for SimCity. It's unplayable me. I've been able to actually play twice since launch and both times ended up booted from the game and lost a sizable chunk of progress. Not to mention features, including basic core gameplay mechanics being turned off it's a waste of money. I've dealt with Diablo 3's launch, WoW, SWG, heaps of terrible launches but this, this takes the cake. Fucking hell EA, why did you have to ruin SimCity? :(
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@simcity said:
Hey, this is on Maxis. EA does not force design upon us. We own it, we are working 24/7 to fix it, and we are making progress
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https://twitter.com/simcity/status/310490053803646976
 
R

reptilescorpio

Member
Maxis has a lot of EA producers in there now. They all share the blame. This was what they wanted.

Danoss said:
I understand this. I'm not saying this needs to go to the top of their to-do list, I'm saying this has to be done relatively soon. It's not a widespread issue at the moment, but there's a good chance it could be.

If people are saying it's not worth doing at all and it's not worth spending taxpayer money on, then we're in disagreement.
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I agree with this. At least the Apple/Adobe stuff shows they are willing to give it a red hot go.

As we settle into the next console cycle and people realise all the digital games they bought for 360/PS3 don't work on their 720/PS4 I can see it being an even bigger issue here.

CrazedProfessional said:
I got a good deal out of it at least!
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How is it treating you so far by the way?
 
C

CrazedProfessional

Member
reptilescorpio said:
How is it treating you so far by the way?
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It's pretty good, it's basically a Microsoft office tablet which is nice for university since there will be no distractions from it. Thank god the Windows Store is so shit that there's nothing on it to distract me! It makes me crave a bottom of the page button on desktop gaf though.
 
S

SwissLion

Member
CrazedProfessional said:
It's pretty good, it's basically a Microsoft office tablet which is nice for university since there will be no distractions from it. Thank god the Windows Store is so shit that there's nothing on it to distract me! It makes me crave a bottom of the page button on desktop gaf though.
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Does it have an end key?
 
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