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[Yagharek]

The Australian Christian Lobby benefits from tax breaks and possibly (probably) government funding through part of it's network.

Thats morally reprehensible given the vitriol they spout. Almost as bad as Bernardi's nonsense.

 

[Arksy]

The Australian Christian Lobby benefits from tax breaks and possibly (probably) government funding through part of it's network.

Thats morally reprehensible given the vitriol they spout. Almost as bad as Bernardi's nonsense.

Can allow tax breaks, but can't fund a religion directly.

Bernadi is an elected member of parliament. He's well within his right spew whatever vitriol he wants. He commands a popular mandate for his position.

Don't like the system? Cool. Help me make it better.

 

[A More Normal Bird]

Can allow tax breaks, but can't fund a religion directly.

I'm interested to hear why.

 

[Arksy]

I'm interested to hear why.

Section 116 of the constitution;

The Commonwealth of Australia shall not make any law establishing any religion, or for imposing any religious observance, or for prohibiting the free exercise of any religion, and no religious test shall be required as a qualification for any office or public trust under the Commonwealth.

I can't remember the case but they can't just hand out fat wads of cash to Churches. They can give federal assistance to religious organisations constructed for a purpose, such as say Anglicare, and they can employ chaplains (edit: and give out fat wads of cash to religious private schools, because they're schools, not churches, derp) but not give direct financial assistance to a religious organisation to conduct religious services.

 

[Yagharek]

Rampant libertarianism is never the answer.

As the old saying goes, never go full retard.

And to counter your post directly above, theyve already violated it by putting christian ministers in schools. Especially when theyre all a bunch of proselytizers

 

[A More Normal Bird]

Section 116 of the constitution;

I can't remember the case but they can't just hand out fat wads of cash to Churches. They can give federal assistance to religious organisations constructed for a purpose, such as say Anglicare, and they can employ chaplains (edit: and give out fat wads of cash to religious private schools, because they're schools, not churches, derp) but not give direct financial assistance to a religious organisation to conduct religious services.

Sorry, that was a derp on my end, I thought you were saying that you personally supported tax breaks for such things but not direct funding.

 

[Arksy]

Rampant libertarianism is never the answer.

As the old saying goes, never go full retard.

And to counter your post directly above, theyve already violated it by putting christian ministers in schools. Especially when theyre all a bunch of proselytizers

I'm sorry I can't respect anyone that calls an alternative point of view retarded. Especially when they get ideological labels wrong, and even more especially when they get fundamental facts wrong, like the government breached that provision when they put christian ministers in schools. They didn't. Read Williams v Cth.

Sorry, that was a derp on my end, I thought you were saying that you personally supported tax breaks for such things but not direct funding.

Haha if that were true you'd be able to accuse me of a level of double standards not seen since my ex-gir....nevermind me >.<

 

[Dead Man]

I'm sorry I can't respect anyone that calls an alternative point of view retarded. Especially when they get ideological labels wrong, and even more especially when they get fundamental facts wrong, like the government breached that provision when they put christian ministers in schools. They didn't. Read Williams v Cth.

Depends on the point of view. Some are genuinely retarded.

 

[Arksy]

Depends on the point of view. Some are genuinely retarded.

No they're not. That is, aside from mine, of course.

 

[Dead Man]

No they're not. That is, aside from mine, of course.

No, they are. Not an attack on yours, except your opinion that all opinions are valid. Anti Semitism is an opinion that is retarded.

 

[Mondy]

I said this before and I'm happy to say it again.

Keep talking Mr. Bernardi, PLEASE keep on saying stupid shit.

 

[Arksy]

I represent people with penises!

I mean, I represent people with uncircumcised penises!

I mean, I represent people with uncircumcised penises as long as it doesn't touch other penises!

 

[Elaugaufein]

Arksy: How do you classify your political ideology?

 

[bomma_man]

You still haven't answered my question Arksy

Also that Williams decision confuses me a bit. They barely give the s116 argument the time of day and I can't really understand why.

 

[lexi]

Abbott reckons we have 'too many forests'. This fucking clown is a Captain Planet villain.

 

[roosters93]

This was fun.
Ludlam tells it like it is.

 

[Jintor]

he classified himself as a feminist yesterday

which makes sense, of course, because he is the minister for women's affairs. I mean, it only makes sense that a man would know the most about women's affairs

 

[Tommy DJ]

Abbott reckons we have 'too many forests'. This fucking clown is a Captain Planet villain.

"When I look out tonight at an audience of people who work with timber, who work in forests, I don't see people who are environmental vandals; I see people who are the ultimate conservationists," he said.

It just hurts my brain. Especially since most logging in Tasmania is clear-fell as far as I know.

 

[Arksy]

My apologies, I'd call myself something between a democratic localist, clissical liberal, whig and chartist.

 

[A More Normal Bird]

In the past Abbott has said that conservatives are conservationists because it's right there in the name. Most of what he says on the topic sounds like the ranting of a delusional madman. I get the feeling with him that it's not so much the Captain Planet villain greed that motivates his views, but a religious fervour that God, sorry, "Mother Nature" created the environment for man to exploit. I find it deeply disturbing.

 

[bomma_man]

In the past Abbott has said that conservatives are conservationists because it's right there in the name. Most of what he says on the topic sounds like the ranting of a delusional madman. I get the feeling with him that it's not so much the Captain Planet villain greed that motivates his views, but a religious fervour that God, sorry, "Mother Nature" created the environment for man to exploit. I find it deeply disturbing.

Well it says as much in the bible. I think the bigger problem is his scant regard for sustainable development, which you'd think the bible would support.

 

[hidys]

This was fun.
Ludlam tells it like it is.

Excellent speech. I really hope he gets reelected.

I may give his campaign some money.

 

[legend166]

Can someone explain to me what's wrong with logging?

 

[Shaneus]

Holy shit, that analogy comparing Abbott's government to a "thin, greasy layer" in Australia's political history is wonderful.
Edit: Whole speech is amazing. And keeping such a level tone of voice works wonders, too.

 

[reptilescorpio]

Link

PAUL and Kate Kent’s bakery and café in Camperdown yesterday became part of a national debate about weekend penalty rates.

The Kents’ decision to stop Sunday trading at their Loaf and Lounge business because penalty rates made it unviable was one of the examples cited by member for Wannon Dan Tehan in his call yesterday for a rethink on penalty rates in Australia.

Mr Tehan said the high cost of penalty rates “was covering the country in ghost towns on a Sunday”.

Penalty rates were causing “an ever-growing casualty list including workers, businesses and local communities,” he said.

They were based on last- century rationale when men were often the sole household breadwinner and weekends were sacrosanct, Mr Tehan said. Society had since changed and business and unions needed to “meet in the middle” to ensure penalty rates did not endanger the nation’s future growth.

Back in Camperdown, Mr Kent said the bakery had traded seven days a week for eight years until December, when it closed on Sundays because penalty rates had made trading too expensive.

He and his wife were unwilling to work Sundays themselves because they had a young family and wanted to spend time with their children.

First off, country towns are usually busy as shit on Sundays due to sports and markets.

Secondly, if you don't want to do something that means the task has a higher value to you. So fucking pay people more to do the shit jobs no one wants to do. That's just logic.

Thirdly, did penalty rates change in December? Why were they fine until December?

Fourthly, your bakery sucks and everything is overpriced.




Finally, why are penalty rates in the firing line? Is this a union thing? I sure wish I was getting penalty rates back when I used to work weekends in hospitality.

 

[Dastardly Jerks]

Ludlam speech is amazing. Loved every minute of it.

 

[Dead Man]

Link
First off, country towns are usually busy as shit on Sundays due to sports and markets.

Secondly, if you don't want to do something that means the task has a higher value to you. So fucking pay people more to do the shit jobs no one wants to do. That's just logic.

Thirdly, did penalty rates change in December? Why were they fine until December?

Fourthly, your bakery sucks and everything is overpriced.

Finally, why are penalty rates in the firing line? Is this a union thing? I sure wish I was getting penalty rates back when I used to work weekends in hospitality.

He and his wife were unwilling to work Sundays themselves because they had a young family and wanted to spend time with their children.

You fucking morons. If you want to fuck over wage earners, at least be clever.

 

[Shaneus]

Ludlam speech is amazing. Loved every minute of it.

Best thing is, no matter how Abbott responds to it, it's literally impossible for him to do so in a similar tone. Perfect delivery and content.

 

[bomma_man]

Can someone explain to me what's wrong with logging?

In Tasmania a lot the logging that they do is done in pristine wilderness which many think should be conserved for future generations. I don't think anyone has a problem with forests being specifically grown to be logged.

Plus trees are good for the air and animals live in forests.

You fucking morons. If you want to fuck over wage earners, at least be clever.

lol seriously, how stupid can people be.

 

[bobnowhere]

You fucking morons. If you want to fuck over wage earners, at least be clever.

Haha, the last line is priceless!

 

[Elaugaufein]

My apologies, I'd call myself something between a democratic localist, clissical liberal, whig and chartist.

Thank you. I sympathize since I've never managed to find an ideology that completely describes my positions either.

 

[A More Normal Bird]

Can someone explain to me what's wrong with logging?

The short version? It's mismanaged and unsustainable, exchanging short term gain for long term cost. To add to that it's generally being conducted in already severely degraded environments (at least on the mainland). This argument isn't necessarily about conservation for moral reasons, it's about recognising that these are interconnected systems that we do not have the capability to replace wholesale. Evolution is a slow process and decades of human activity can take thousands of years to be compensated for.

There's nothing innately wrong with logging, just as there isn't anything innately wrong with fishing, farming, mining or any other primary industry. However the first European settlers set about using methods adapted for a European environment, importing European species and trying to reshape the land. They didn't know any better, but it's obvious that it didn't work and we're now left with the resultant mess: worst mammal extinction rate on the planet, one of only two developed nations in the top ten for threatened species (the other being the US), chronic water shortages, the list goes on.

 

[senahorse]

Speaking of the effect on wildlife, this XKCD comic spells it out:

 

[Yagharek]

Can someone explain to me what's wrong with logging?

There's nothing wrong with it per se, but the way its been done in Tasmania is pretty controversial with logging of old growth forests - many of which involve trees that are very very very slow to regenerate.

On top of that, when they have been replaced with plantation forests, many of those have not been tended to very well, or completely stripped bare and not regrown. It's one thing to create a monoculture, it's another to not even maintain it in areas where that's all there is.

Add to that a history of some nasty extinctions, facial tumours for devils, high rates of roadkill on tasmanian roads and the controversy over the Tamar pulp mill (which would never have been opposed if they put it in up in Wesley Vale or Burnie instead of in a wine tour region and you begin to get an idea of why its a perennial hot topic.

 

[Danoss]

Abbott reckons we have 'too many forests'. This fucking clown is a Captain Planet villain.

There sure was an interesting Q&A session to kick things off.

Questioner: What orders from Mordor my Lord? What does the Eye command?
Aboott: We have work to do.
Questioner: The trees are strong, my Lord. Their roots go deep.
Abbott: Rip them all down!

 

[Dead Man]

Can someone explain to me what's wrong with logging?

Nothing. Can you explain why logging should require cutting down wild forests?

 

[markot]

Speaking of the effect on wildlife, this XKCD comic spells it out:

Wheres cats and dogs?!

 

[Elaugaufein]

Wheres cats and dogs?!

One of the smaller unlabeled groups of grey squares probably.

 

[AdventureRacing]

There sure was an interesting Q&A session to kick things off.

Questioner: What orders from Mordor my Lord? What does the Eye command?
Aboott: We have work to do.
Questioner: The trees are strong, my Lord. Their roots go deep.
Abbott: Rip them all down!

Lol this caught me off guard.

 

[wonzo]

he classified himself as a feminist yesterday

which makes sense, of course, because he is the minister for women's affairs. I mean, it only makes sense that a man would know the most about women's affairs

"bibles full of bitches"

 

[Dryk]

Ludlam speech is amazing. Loved every minute of it.

Ludlam's speeches are always great, parliament will eventually be lessened by his defeat/retirement.

 

[Ruthless_Barbarian]

Received a letter from my local MP (Lalor) about the Abbott govt. cutting funding to the Community centre and library in my suburb. It was fully costed under the 2013 budget, yet Abbott wants to slash it.

Abbott wants to remembered as the Infrastructure prime minister? Bloody idiot.

This was fun.
Ludlam tells it like it is.

"Every Time to open your mouth, the Green vote goes up"

Priceless.

 

[wonzo]

i keep tellin y'all a large chunk of this country won't be happy until refugees and asylum seekers are shot on site

 

[roosters93]

To counter that incredibly depressing image, here is putingaydressup.com


and my creation (nsfw obviously)
he's wearing every single item

 

[Tommy DJ]

I think we're all aware that the Australia populace really, really hates asylum seekers for reasons unknown outside of NIMBY or racism. Hence why a lot of us think Arksy's view of direct democracy to be a bit too optimistic.

We pretty much vote people who are willing to lock children indefinitely in the middle of nowhere. Shooting them on site may actually be seen as being too kind.

 

[Mondy]

Another thing I'm happy to repeat myself about: When you put so many electoral seats in the centre of the most white, upper middle class region of the country, you can only expect one result. Of course, I'm referring to Western Sydney. You know, that paradise of human decency and compassion....

 

[Myansie]

Don't they also find in polling about asylum seekers that voters care factor is pretty low vs jobs, education etc? If you want to shoot Abbott on it explain the costs. The political capital and economic costs are huge.

 

[Danoss]

Another thing I'm happy to repeat myself about: When you put so many electoral seats in the centre of the most white, upper middle class region of the country, you can only expect one result. Of course, I'm referring to Western Sydney. You know, that paradise of human decency and compassion....

Sounds like you're referring to the hills district, of which this reflects quite well. Although that is only a small part of western Sydney – the rest is vastly different.

 

[Arksy]

I think we're all aware that the Australia populace really, really hates asylum seekers for reasons unknown outside of NIMBY or racism. Hence why a lot of us think Arksy's view of direct democracy to be a bit too optimistic.

We pretty much vote people who are willing to lock children indefinitely in the middle of nowhere. Shooting them on site may actually be seen as being too kind.

I'm more than happy to take the hit for having faith in the electorate....

But...

Like...

You know...

Things currently...are pretty damn bad...for asylum seekers.....and we have no real power to constrain the government. The things I saw on dateline last night made me sick to my stomach. Are you somehow suggesting it'd be worse with open primaries or citizens initiative? Because I really don't see how. :|

 

[Mondy]

Sounds like you're referring to the hills district, of which this reflects quite well. Although that is only a small part of western Sydney – the rest is vastly different.

I think you'll find that's not the case, although QLD to be fair is not much better.