Late Stage Marxist
Member
That trailer needed more talking and upside down Batman. Otherwise it was AWESOME DOOD!
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BATMAN BEGINS TRAILER is...here! (Downloadable link)
- Thread starter Matlock
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Cauliflower of Love
Banned
Full blown trailers are garbage nowadays, showing climax and conlcusion to the film.
Cauliflower of Love
Banned
Come to miami. =(
trippingmartian said:
:lol :lol :lol It's one of the most boring, medicore, overrated pieces of trash in cinematic history. Returns managed to be even more sleep-inducing, despite Pfieffer's performance being the best in the entire series.
Let's get this straight once and for all...Mask of the Phantasm and Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker are the best comic-based movies ever made. Period. For strictly live action I'd give the nod to either X-Men 2, Spiderman 2, Superman 1 and 2 or TMNT. But none of 'em top the aforementioned Batman movies. Thankfully, I think that's finally gonna change...
ManaByte
Gold Member
Shinobi said:
Almost. The best live-action comic book movies are Spider-Man 2 and Donner's Superman (Donner's cut of Superman 2 is close but it was only shown on TV in Europe).
Batman Begins is better than all of them.
It's so dark, it makes Burton's Batmans look like a Hilary Duff movie in comparison.
Duck of Death
Member
ManaByte said:
I'm not so sure about that. Certainly the film uses a dark color palette (from what we've seen), but the script itself is quite entertaining. It is without question more moody and serious than Schumacher's Batman films. If I remember right, Batman Returns was quite a dark film, correct? If I remember that film faithfully, then I don't think Batman Begins will be as dark or gloomy.
ManaByte
Gold Member
Duck of Death said:
The
Scarecrow
Duck of Death
Member
ManaByte said:
Good points. The
Scarecrow
The script simply wasn't that moody. More serious? Yes. But nothing as dark and depressing as some of the stuff in Batman Returns.
How dark a movie is is simply one aspect of the movie. The Burton movies were more then dark...they had the atmosphere nailed down pretty well I thought. It's the weak ass, illogical, boring ass scripts that turned those movies into turkeys.
If you get the characters and script right, and have the proper focus, the atmosphere can take care of itself.
If you get the characters and script right, and have the proper focus, the atmosphere can take care of itself.
Duck of Death
Member
Shinobi said:
The characters and script ARE right. The atmosphere in the script is fantastic, and I'm sure Nolan and crew will make it even better.
This will be a good film, and probably the best Batman film yet.
Mike Works
Member
I haven't read the script, thus I don't know what's going to happen at the end, but unless Batman kills Joel Schumacher at the end of the movie, I doubt the crowd is going to be "cheering".
Duck of Death
Member
Mike Works said:
Well, there's one action sequence in particular that MIGHT elicit approval from the audience.
HOPPING BATMOBILE CARNAGE!
Agent Dormer
Dirty Drinking Smoker
Agent Dormer
Dirty Drinking Smoker
Matlock said:
A thorn in you side, I be.
={<SMOKE>}=
Member
for those who have read the script: there's something i'm confused about.
MAJOR SPOILERS!
MAJOR SPOILERS!
is neeson/ducard actually ra's al ghul? in the script it turns out that ducard is actually ra's al ghul, but in the trailer they show ken wannatabe sword fighting with christian bale. i don't recall that happening in the script. who the hell is really ra's al ghul?
Duck of Death
Member
={<SMOKE>}= said:
Yeah, in the script Ducard IS Ra's Al Ghul. It might have been altered slightly to make the "fake" Ra's Al Ghul more convincing. In the normal script, he just sort of sits there and gets set on fire.
Shinobi, my man, you have to start dealing with the fact that they're popular and well-liked. Christ, I don't know how many times you've ripped into them, and sometimes during the most bizarre opportunities (not this thread, of course). I just think it's all a little much. Like you've taken this on as your 'thing to do' or your own perception of the movies takes a hit each time someone says otherwise. 
karasu
Member
Shinobi said:
No, it's just that you make it sound like there were so many options around or something. As if the Bat suit was so bad compared to..., Batman, and Returns were so bad compared to....
Adam West? Nuclear Man? It's not that I think theres anything wrong with you disliking the films, but come on man. If not for those Burton pictures we probably wouldn't be getting this beautiful shit we're drooling over now. Batman would still be buried under layer upon layer of camp/mockingly homo erotic relationships. Burton got a few things wrong here and there, but as far as his medium is concerned he definitely upped the ante. This movie is a direct result of that.
Fresh Prince
Banned
Pretty Good, the cape and mask are cool.
Socreges said:Shinobi, my man, you have to start dealing with the fact that they're popular and well-liked. Christ, I don't know how many times you've ripped into them, and sometimes during the most bizarre opportunities (not this thread, of course). I just think it's all a little much. Like you've taken this on as your 'thing to do' or your own perception of the movies takes a hit each time someone says otherwise.
I deal with reality shows being popular and well-liked, so dealing with the Burton Batman flicks isn't much of an issue. :lol I only rip into the movies when it's on topic...or when I feel like unleashing. Doesn't mean you or others can't continue to suck their dicks.
karasu said:
Just because it's the only thing around, doesn't mean I have to like it. And it sure as hell doesn't mean it's any good. If that's the only reason you liked the movies, then it pretty much speaks volumes. The fact that these movies managed to bore me to death simply means they were bad movies on any level. I'm not gonna give 'em extra points just because they "paved the way".
I thought the first two Superman movies did things right, so in essence a template was already there. TMNT in 1990 also did things right (and hey, it was dark too!!). And the Batman animated series, a freaking kids show, did things so right, it only served to make the movies look all the more embarassing. And that doesn't even get into Phantasm. BTW, I think the animated series paved the way for this movie just as much as the Burton flicks.
Anyway, I only come down hard on those movies because so many people think they were so great because of the Didlomobile and it's darkness, which just doesn't cut it for me. The major elements that makes the Batman character what he is, his martial arts and stealth training and techniques, his detective skills, his relationships with both Commissioner Gordon and Alfred, were woefully represented in the movies in my view. And I just don't think there was an excuse for it.
scola said:
And he wasn't there for Trilogy Tuesday, where I heard so much cheering that I went temporarily deaf for three days.
Shinobi said:
I think you're greatly de-emphasizing how great the Batman Animated Series was by calling it a "kids" show. It certainly was marketed to the kids, but the show had so many adult undertones it was insane. Really, it's the greatest comic book related television show ever devised and frankly it does kick all the movies asses. Hell, Phantasm alone kicks all the movies asses.
Anyway, on topic, this trailer is so good that my face melted away from the joy.
Greenpanda
Banned
Thanks for all the links, guys
karasu
Member
That's not what I'm saying at all.
Of course the animated series got certain things right, how many hours did they have devoted to Batman? In many ways the Burton films were the model for that (along with comics). If you're comparing two movies to a 5 year tv series you're doing yourself a disservice. Do you realize how fucking stupid lengthy martial arts scenes would have looked in 1989 America with a Superhero suit? The Burton character was obviously well trained. It was written all over his defenses, subtle things like tumbling to evade a larger attacker or his defense against the twin swordsman. Deep back stances and jump spinning back kicks would have looked retarded, and destroyed the mythic creature of the night feel he was trying to bring across with the character. And that feel and moodiness is as big a part of Batman as his kung fu. The things you list as problems are so minor when you look at other movies of it's type. For example, you said Superman was good. You think Batman's relationships with Gordon and Alfred were misrepresented (Alfred???), what about Superman and his relationshis with Jimmy Olsen or his own Parents? Ok, so they weren't mystery films that showcased Batmans abilities as a detective(even though those skills are apparent if you watch the decisions the character makes). Ignoring the fact that that is perfectly in line with a million Batman comics, the Superman movies gave Superman the ability to Teleport, to steal people's memories, to throw magically expanding S shields, and to turn back time. A bunch of shit that doesn't fit with the comic version of SUperman at all. They killed his parents and turned his birth father into a giant floating head. They ignored all of the fighting Skills that he suppossedly has in favor of "science". There are always differences between adaptations and the source material. If that's all that bothers you about the films, it explains alot. It makes it sound like you hate them just because you want to. Does Mask of the Phantasm hold up as a standalone film? That didn't spend a great deal of time on Batmans relationship with Gordon, Alfred or stealth. It had as much stealth as The Batman movie. *shrug*
Amir0x said:
Heh, I know...I merely called it a kids show to make a point. That a 22 minute per episode cartoon on a network that wouldn't even allow bullets to be used could still capture the essence of Batman a thousand times better then the movies is frankly hilarious. Batman was as mature as any series I've followed in terms of characters, pace and mood, but I'm not gonna get too offended if it's called a kids show, cause that's what was commisioned. Thankfully the people in charge had a respect for the character to make it far more then just a kid's show. Hope you know what I mean.
karasu said:
First of all, I don't need to compare a five year run to the Burton flicks. The very first Batman episode Shadow of the Bat destroyed those movies. And it did so with Fox regulating their ass and a budget that's hardly comparable with what Burton had to work with.
Asking about how stupid lengthy, costumed martial art scenes would've looked in 1989 is pretty laughable, considering TMNT came out the following year and was a smash hit. Had some very good fight scenes that still hold up...turtles doing flips, quick moves, powerful blows. Don't tell me Batman would've been laughed at with similiar scenes. I can't think of one great, memorable fight in the entire series, and that includes the knife weilder. As far as Superman goes, what exactly was wrong with the relationships potrayed in those movies? Yeah, his father died...but they made that scene relevant towards the end of the first movie (granted it was for one of the hokiest scenes ever created, but still). Didn't see much wrong with his relationship with Jimmy either. The other stuff he did, yeah, that was added on...but hell, it wasn't that far out of line for the character anyway. It's already ridiculous that he can fly, not be hurt by a bullet and shoot lasers out of his eyes, so the other stuff isn't much of a leap to me. Then again I'm exactly a Superman fan to begin with...but I think those movies did a good job representing his major elements. Same with Spider-Man 1 and 2, even though those movies have weak scenes as well. It's a little different to the Batman movies, which I feel missed major elements of his character for no good reason at all. Adding stuff is fine...but if you're not gonna bring what he already had to the dance, then it isn't gonna make up for it.
As far as Phantasm goes, you're goddamn right that stands all alone as a movie. Look at the flashback scenes that showed the genesis of his character. Look at the way people were actually croaking. It had every element you could want for a Batman movie...a sinister villan, detective work, conflict with the police, the hot babe/love interest (and a red head to boot!), a terrific chase scene with Bats, and of course the Joker. As far as your points are concerned...you don't think Gordon's defense of Batman wasn't an example of the relationship between the two? Did you somehow miss the potshot Alfred took at Bruce in their opening scene, or the argument they had concerning Andrea, or the flashback scenes where Alfred acted as a conduit for Bruce during his early days as a crimefighter? You didn't see the way Bats vanished into the night when Andrea saw him at the cementary, or the way he stayed hidden at Andrea's apartment? I mean seriously, which movie were you watching? I suppose I could argue that you're trying to tear Phantasm down just to prop up the movies you watched as some snot-nosed kid in order to protect those precious childhood memories, but then I'd be doing the same thing you're doing...assuming. And you know what that means. Or so I assume, heh.
Anyway if you love the movies, that's fine. I don't even hate the people who've made reality TV a hit, so what do I care. I've only ranted in this thread because someone said the idea of Batman '89 not being hailed as the best comic-based movie ever is debatable. Now you know me...that's like holding a fed flag in front of a bull. :lol If he hadn't said the debatable word, I would've just said the movies sucked and left it at that.
karasu
Member
I saw all of that, and I saw equivalents of in the Burton movies. It wasn't uncommon for Alfred to make decisions for Bruce with his damned Jedi Mind tricks. Alfred and Bruce disagreed on Andrea? Guess what, they also disagreed on how to handle Vicki Vale. That's straight from the movie. Bats vanished into the night in Phantasm you say? You didn't see him do that like 4 times in the live action movie? You didn't see him obscure himself behind a cloud of mist? You didn't see him use stealth in his fights, or you didn't notice how they were playing up the urban myth angle? The dude was practically a Ninja. I think he even used Metsubushi at one point. I don't even see how you can suggest I was tearing Phantasm down. I'm one of the few who prefer the second movie to the first, and I think Val Kilmer was ten times the Batman that Keaton was.The series does own the movies, thanks to the freedom of animation and their love of the character. This has nothing to do with nostalgia. I have my problems with the movies. Things like killing the Joker were retarded. I'm not gonna sit around acting like it was as bad as the Captain America movie though.
I sure hope you're joking.
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