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BATMAN BEGINS TRAILER is...here! (Downloadable link)
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The Bookerman
Member
Hearing Liam Neeson talk to young bruce... I still think of him as qui-gon jinn.
Phantom menace was still crap, but Liam was awesome as qui-gon. That's for sure.
Phantom menace was still crap, but Liam was awesome as qui-gon. That's for sure.
eh, I'm completely fine with no batman for a good portion of the script. It's gonna be great seeing them go over the psychology and beginnings of Batman. I'm sure they'll get to some kick ass stuff later on. And Liam Neelson rocks in this preview. I simply can't wait to see this. There's just so many possibilities. I can't imagine what I'll be like on opening night, being I'm this hyped a full 6 months prior to it's release.
Duck of Death
Member
Is that from Session 9?
That movie sucked so much. Awful, awful film.
That movie sucked so much. Awful, awful film.
Shinobi your argument for hating Batman sounds pretty thin, but to each his own-- I won't deny the animated series wasn't great. But what makes Batman for me a great FILM is that despite Burton doing his gothic desaturated look in most of his movies, the art direction for Batman was perfect (it won an academy award). Everything was very cohesive and made for a hell of a moody environment, much more so than what we'll see in Nolan's film. The crpytic matte paintings and sense of claustrophobia throughout really sold it.
My favorite scene was when batman rescues vale and is driving her to the batcave-- danny elfman's "Descent into Mystery" starts and we watch how vicki is being taken down into his world, a sort of virtual descent into hell-- but with a sense of wonder at the same time. Really, you only have to listen to the soundtrack alone to understand why this is such a great movie. But infact every piece fits together with the other, the cinematography, the set decoration--not just the score, and that's what makes it good.
Also, the movie was hilarious. That crazy scene at the belltower near the end with the waltz playing always cracks me up :lol
My favorite scene was when batman rescues vale and is driving her to the batcave-- danny elfman's "Descent into Mystery" starts and we watch how vicki is being taken down into his world, a sort of virtual descent into hell-- but with a sense of wonder at the same time. Really, you only have to listen to the soundtrack alone to understand why this is such a great movie. But infact every piece fits together with the other, the cinematography, the set decoration--not just the score, and that's what makes it good.
Also, the movie was hilarious. That crazy scene at the belltower near the end with the waltz playing always cracks me up :lol
Shinobi's argument for disliking Burton's Batman isn't pretty thin, it's pretty much 100% accurate and on the money. Nothing, save for the namesake and some of the backdrops from Burton's two movies are remotely like its comic book form. Some people can appreciate different visions of a character, but Burton's Batman is not faithful to the source material at all.
I for one enjoyed the original Batman, probably due to Nicholson's performance, but even I recognize that it's not really Batman. It's like Burton's demented version of Batman.
I can only imagine the Internet chaos if Peter Jackson made Lord of the Rings in modern day society, replaced elves with talking dogs and Aragorn died at Sauruman's hands. That's almost akin to what Burton and Schumacher did with Batman.
I for one enjoyed the original Batman, probably due to Nicholson's performance, but even I recognize that it's not really Batman. It's like Burton's demented version of Batman.
I can only imagine the Internet chaos if Peter Jackson made Lord of the Rings in modern day society, replaced elves with talking dogs and Aragorn died at Sauruman's hands. That's almost akin to what Burton and Schumacher did with Batman.
Willco said:
Well thankfully, being faithful to the source material has no effect on whether or not a film is good. And anyway, has there ever really been a definitive version of batman? He's seem to evolve over the years more than any other comic book character. To me, Burton's batman was a more modernized and interesting version-- and it's hard to say it wasn't "batman" since there's so many things from the movie we now associate with him-- for instance the movie's main theme.
Late Stage Marxist
Member
Faithful to Bob Kane or Frank Miller?ManaByte said:
Spike Spiegel
Member
"The only definitive version of Batman so far":
Movies, television, cartoons... they've all made compromises that altered the original vision of the comic book in some way.
Movies, television, cartoons... they've all made compromises that altered the original vision of the comic book in some way.
Liono said:
The cartoon is easily the best adaptation of Batman, by far. Batman hasn't evolved much over the years at all. Maybe the mainstream concept of Batman has, but the character itself has stayed relatively the same. The only time the comics were any different than what we see nowadays was when the hit Adam West TV show forced DC Comics to make Batman more like the campy 60s show. And it sucked.
Nothing from Burton's Batman has really stuck around with the character, save for maybe some of the set design work.
It is an enjoyable, alternative take on Batman, but it is certainly not Batman.
karasu said:
Faithful to the spirit? Are you on crack? ... Burton's Batman isn't faithful at all, whatsoever.
Now I like Burton's Batman, much in the same way I enjoyed Ang Lee's Hulk, but with both movies you got to recognize that they are that individual creator's take on the characters and not faithful or representative of the source material.
Kabuki Waq
Member
Ppl only like burtons batman cause it had a "DARK" atmosphere but really it was campy and the script absolutely sucked. Burtons batman was in NO WAY faithful to the character. I am just glad it spawned one of the best animated series ever 
Duck of Death
Member
STOP THE DAVID CARUSO MADNESS!! He and his shitty movie have nothing to do with Batman!
And I'm sorry, Session 9 is a steaming pile of ass. So:
The new one's better.
And I'm sorry, Session 9 is a steaming pile of ass. So:
Liono said:
The new one's better.
karasu
Member
Was Gotham... 'gotham'? Yes it was. Was Batman portrayed as vigilante out for equal parts revenge and justice? yes he was. Was he considered psychotic? Yes he was. Were there Batmbiles, Batarangs, Batcaves, Alfred, womanizing, depression and an obsessive personality? Yes there was. People say it wasn't faithful, and of course it wasn't 100 percent faithful,, but as far as Batman's characterization the differences between the Burton movies and the animated series are slim. Ok, in the comics Vicki Vale didn't know he was Batman, and Batman uses more Karate in the animated series. Just like the live action movie, the animated series created tons of stuff that wasn't in the comics but was later added in after they were proven to be hits. They totally revamped Mr Freeze, they gave the Joker Harle, in the early sesons Batman was far more kind and forgiving than he was in the books, etc etc. There are always[/b[] huge diferences. Sure, The Burton movies were his interpretations of Batman, but uh, The Dark Knight Returns was Frank Millers interpretation. That's how it works.
PS- The animated series is the best, I agree with that.
Late Stage Marxist
Member
The "faithful" argument is a complete joke at this point. :lol
If graphic novels and animated series don't have to be faithful then why should the films?
If graphic novels and animated series don't have to be faithful then why should the films?
See, I may have mentioned twice on these boards how I think Batman was a "great" film. There's more of a prevalent appreciation of the movies, rather than a few people going around and constantly praising them. It's more you raping them in the ass with a grin on your face, I believe, than anyone sucking them off.Shinobi said:
karasu said:
It's quite simple, really.
BURTON'S BATMAN KILLED.
That alone makes it a horrible, horrible perversion of everything the character stands for.
And Willco, very well said. The first movie was enjoyable (Returns was crap, IMO), but was not Batman. Burton allegedly only read two Batman comics before directing the film.
Spike Spiegel
Member
Actually, when Batman first debuted in the late 1930s, he used a gun and was not above killing criminals.
Spike Spiegel
Member
Of course, in the decades and decades since Batman's debut, he's evolved into a moral vigilante, and sworn an oath never to cross the line and kill someone. It's something he's struggled with greatly over the years, especially with maniacs like the Joker, but it's things like this that add emotional depth to the story of Batman. And Batman has come to absolutely despise firearms, never using them in his crusade unless it became absolutely necessary; IIRC some of the men who'd worked on Batman in the past were furious that Miller's 'Dark Knight' loved using guns, without hesitation.
Burton, of course, disregarded decades of Batman lore, and brought him back to the original dark vigilante killer that he was back in the 30s, and with no seeming repurcussions from the law of Gotham. And that's perhaps the biggest "pet peeve" I've come to have about the Burton films over the years. Batman shouldn't be throwing villains down church towers, or blowing them up in factory explosions, and the Batmobile most definitely should not have built-in machine guns. And I don't care if Gotham is a corrupt sh*thole, the police are not going to be cool with some nutcase killing folks in the name of good.
Burton's Batman was out for revenge, not justice.
Burton, of course, disregarded decades of Batman lore, and brought him back to the original dark vigilante killer that he was back in the 30s, and with no seeming repurcussions from the law of Gotham. And that's perhaps the biggest "pet peeve" I've come to have about the Burton films over the years. Batman shouldn't be throwing villains down church towers, or blowing them up in factory explosions, and the Batmobile most definitely should not have built-in machine guns. And I don't care if Gotham is a corrupt sh*thole, the police are not going to be cool with some nutcase killing folks in the name of good.
Burton's Batman was out for revenge, not justice.
Winged Creature
Member
Spike Spiegel said:
couldnt have said it better
I think what bothers me the most in Burton's flicks, including Batman's cavalier attitude about killing people (I'll put this bomb on a fat guy and blow him up LOL AM I RITE?), is the fact that he used the Batmobile all the time. No running on rooftops. No crazy grappling hook antics. None of that. He was so goddamn lazy.
I think that's why I like Nolan's script so much; when Batman uses the Tumbler/Batmobile, it's for a REASON and not because he's too fucking lazy to walk.
I think that's why I like Nolan's script so much; when Batman uses the Tumbler/Batmobile, it's for a REASON and not because he's too fucking lazy to walk.
Sriram said:
There is some definite detective work, but it's not the strongest aspect of the script and Batman more or less makes some rookie mistakes since this is his first tour of duty as the Dark Knight.
I mean - hell! - (spoilers here!)
Bruce Wayne doesn't even fight crime in the Batsuit initially!
Xenon
Member
No, its more because Burton took way too much inspiration from the old TV series. The new batmobile each movie showed what Burton thought was important in the Batman series. Unfortunately Batman was a back drop in his own movie. Burtons set designs, guest star villains(and sidekicks), futuristic vehicles and cool gadgets were the stars of his movies.
The only thing Burton did for the Batman series was bury one of the most marketable characters in a deep hole which I'm happy to see him finally crawl out of.
The trailer looks great. I always wanted to see them spend time on his origin.
Cauliflower of Love
Banned
Spike Spiegel said:
Just looking at it now, and I realize that if you were to change the color from blue to skin tone....batman is a badbly written porn star.
*cough*calling photoshop masters*cough*
Ok, well, I watched Mask of the Phantasm today and upon finishing that, Batman Returns was on encore and I seen most of it. Mask of the Phantasm was so much better it was ridiculous. Both had a girl who was both villain and lover and Phantasm just handled it so much better.
Batman just seems so flimsy in the Burton films. As noted, he kills, then they try and do scenes where he tells Catwoman not to do it when she had Walkens guy at her mercy. Meanwhile he's already planted a bomb on Penguin and smirked. I mean, wtf? He just never seems to have to make a moral stand. There's no repercussions, no decisions to make, no character. I admire Burton's Gotham, his art, and a bit of his dark atmosphere. I admire Catwoman's character as well and Pfeifer's performance. But his Batman is ridiculous. When his Batman is pleading with Catwoman to go home, I almost laughed. When Phantasm's Batman pleads with Andrea, the words stood for something actually.
There's just so many things wrong with it. Like, when Batman let the girl fall from the roof in returns. I swear, I'm sitting there waiting for him to jump or something. He does nothing. That was Batman's struggle. Between justice and between revenge. As Alfred said in Phantasm, he's feared Bruce walks that line every night but has never given in to revenge. He goes through these obstacles because that's what he believes in. I mean, if Batman's motive was simply revenge and he didn't care who died, none of the villains would have even lasted with him.
Also, on the ability of Batman. The ammount of walking he does in Burton's flicks is absolutely ridiculous. Again, on the chick that fell from the rooftop. Before he gets to the roof he makes a point to have a nice cool walk while her life is on the line. He never runs. Because it wouldn't be cool in Burton's world. Style over substance to an insane ammount. Also, Batmobile used everywhere with absolutely no swinging is another grievance of mine.
And another thing on the girl falling, because I just can't get over it. She falls on a box. And this is an obvious moment where they don't want to choose if she died or lived. Burton I'm sure has her die and probably was forced to put a box there. Still didn't break the fall at all. But there's no sense of danger, no real fear. It's all a bunch of clowns in a show. Filled with penguins strapped with rockets and everything else. Catwoman falls to her death only to land in kitty litter. How do you expect to hold a tense scene when you know shit like that's going to happen.
About what Phantasm did right though. Showing how torn he is when he finds love and has to choose between it and his burden as the Dark Knight, how much he believes in justice, his brilliance in detective work, clever stories.. That movie's just so great. And recreating that scene where the police have him surrounded in a kind of construction zone. That was awesome. It's amazing how suspenseful that is seeing him really surrounded, bleeding and all. Definetly one of the best works of Batman out there. I'm so grateful to Bruce Timm and those guys for that series. I may have never become a fan of Batman without it. Or at least it would have been awhile before I took notice of Batman.
Batman just seems so flimsy in the Burton films. As noted, he kills, then they try and do scenes where he tells Catwoman not to do it when she had Walkens guy at her mercy. Meanwhile he's already planted a bomb on Penguin and smirked. I mean, wtf? He just never seems to have to make a moral stand. There's no repercussions, no decisions to make, no character. I admire Burton's Gotham, his art, and a bit of his dark atmosphere. I admire Catwoman's character as well and Pfeifer's performance. But his Batman is ridiculous. When his Batman is pleading with Catwoman to go home, I almost laughed. When Phantasm's Batman pleads with Andrea, the words stood for something actually.
There's just so many things wrong with it. Like, when Batman let the girl fall from the roof in returns. I swear, I'm sitting there waiting for him to jump or something. He does nothing. That was Batman's struggle. Between justice and between revenge. As Alfred said in Phantasm, he's feared Bruce walks that line every night but has never given in to revenge. He goes through these obstacles because that's what he believes in. I mean, if Batman's motive was simply revenge and he didn't care who died, none of the villains would have even lasted with him.
Also, on the ability of Batman. The ammount of walking he does in Burton's flicks is absolutely ridiculous. Again, on the chick that fell from the rooftop. Before he gets to the roof he makes a point to have a nice cool walk while her life is on the line. He never runs. Because it wouldn't be cool in Burton's world. Style over substance to an insane ammount. Also, Batmobile used everywhere with absolutely no swinging is another grievance of mine.
And another thing on the girl falling, because I just can't get over it. She falls on a box. And this is an obvious moment where they don't want to choose if she died or lived. Burton I'm sure has her die and probably was forced to put a box there. Still didn't break the fall at all. But there's no sense of danger, no real fear. It's all a bunch of clowns in a show. Filled with penguins strapped with rockets and everything else. Catwoman falls to her death only to land in kitty litter. How do you expect to hold a tense scene when you know shit like that's going to happen.
About what Phantasm did right though. Showing how torn he is when he finds love and has to choose between it and his burden as the Dark Knight, how much he believes in justice, his brilliance in detective work, clever stories.. That movie's just so great. And recreating that scene where the police have him surrounded in a kind of construction zone. That was awesome. It's amazing how suspenseful that is seeing him really surrounded, bleeding and all. Definetly one of the best works of Batman out there. I'm so grateful to Bruce Timm and those guys for that series. I may have never become a fan of Batman without it. Or at least it would have been awhile before I took notice of Batman.
karasu
Member
As has been pointed out, Phantasm is but one interpretation of Batman. It may be the one you like best, but batman is not limited to his actions in today's comics or animated movies. He has an entire history, one where he sometimes killed people and put vengeance ahead of justice. I hope he kills someone in this new movie just to see people's reaction to it. We take something like twenty one thousand breaths in a day and die hard fans won't let comic character have a single one.
It's not comic exact, Yaaaaaaa! @_@
It's not comic exact, Yaaaaaaa! @_@
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