pieatorium
Member
I always thought super buff batman is kind of silly, hes supposed to be a ninja all stealthy and shit but looks like a heavyweight or juiced footballer. Would also be easier to make effective grapple thingys if he dropped 50lbs.
Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice Titled
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bigboss370
Member
i know, i'm saying i don't think he'll get as huge as cavill either. maybe he's not supposed to i guess...
BadAss2961
Member
Yeah... This is the older, Dark Knight Returns inspired Batman, so he'll be swoll again. Might sound disappointing to some, but remember that the fighting will obviously be stepped way up for this Batman compared to the trilogy .
The thing about the Nolan movies is that Bale wasn't that big for the sequels, but still fought like a tank, particularly in TDKR. Batfleck will be bigger, faster, more ferocious, and slicker regardless of the circumstances. Fight choreography isn't Nolan's thing, while Snyder is excellent at action in general.
Cavill isn't really that big though, even though he might look so at times in Man of Steel. I think Ben is just naturally the bigger guy. Plus some are even worried about Ben having a few inches of height on him.
bigboss370
Member
what? Cavill is gigantic, went through a transformation between his 'Immortals' body and MoS body.
roflwaffles
Member
The title sucks but it isn't what is ultimately wrong with the film. Though, it does reek of "hey give us your money, we're trying to catch up with Marvel" and screams desperation.
What's wrong with it is that Superman is barely fleshed out in MoS1 and MoS2 would have been a wonderful opportunity to build out his mythos and character before introducing Batman and the Justice League. Plus, I have no faith in Snyder.
What's wrong with it is that Superman is barely fleshed out in MoS1 and MoS2 would have been a wonderful opportunity to build out his mythos and character before introducing Batman and the Justice League. Plus, I have no faith in Snyder.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Obviously, but in a fearful, human world its easy to blame the super strong alien.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I'm sure that would be an angle the Luthor in this movie might take. I kinda hope he does. It'd be a nice way to sort of judo-flip the bad word of mouth that was bubbling around the film. Sort of a bullshit Pee-Wee Herman-esque "I MEANT TO DO THAT" deal.
Also a new logo
DAT repeated grunge background texture. Looks like the artist did a quick GOOGLE IMAGE search for grunge, tiled it and called it a day.
I've seen the script. It's quite dissapointing too.
Basically the movie starts with bruce/clark/batman/superman meeting after seeing a mural of that said logo and title on a wall. They basically stick around for about 90 minutes discussing name billings, problems with the title and supes even makes a jab at Batman's logo being too thick (*audience wink*). Eventually they settle their differences at the local gotham coffee house and return to the mural , writing "Superman and Batman were here". They take their separate leave.
I thought it was a bit pretentious.
pieatorium
Member
I can tell this is fake because superman gets top billing on the graffiti
I see the v as the latin or, works better than vs Imo, since those two don't really need to fight for anything against each other.
I would pay for a two hour training video with him and Affleck.indeed. and no matter how much working out or padding batfleck gets i don't think he will match cavill's physique:
While you were in the future, how was Star Wars 7? Am I right to be excited?
...you guys aren't going to like it
roflwaffles
Member
I'd watch it!
We need more of these.
jetpacks was yes
Member
who gets paid for this stuff
What makes it a double standard?
How does it scream desperation? If they were desperate they wouldn't have delayed the film or brought in an oscar winning writer to script it. If they were that desperate they would've jumped into Justice League right away and skipped this movie.
Desperate because they put Batman in a Superman movie? Come on...
Ninja Scooter
Member
DC has been trying to get a JL film (and one where all the characters are introduced at once) since before the MCU and "Based Feige" ever came around. I don't think they needed Marvel to tell them that movies with superheroes make a lot of money.
As opposed to all those rather mediocre solo Marvel movies whose sole purpose was to set up end of credits scenes for Avengers? Were those not money motivated movies? Aren't they all? Especially summer blockbusters?
WB just can't win. People bitch they didn't JL earlier when in reality they had plans as far back as 2007 but they were shot down because of Nolan's Batman series. Now people complain as if they would have rather had a shared DC universe and JL movies over the Nolan movies. Another group of people complain they are playing catch up. Another that they shouldn't be doing this at all. Another that they should have solo movies for all the characters because that's the only way to do a team up movie.
Father_Brain
Banned
If you start from the viewpoint that MoS was intended to set up a broader, shared DCCU - as opposed to, say, a self-contained Nolanverse-style trilogy featuring no DC characters other than those traditionally associated with the Superman property - then sure, it's a lot easier to believe that BvS is in no way a reaction to Marvel's success. I don't exactly share that point of view, though, and have yet to be convinced by any of the arguments to the contrary (to name one someone posted earlier in the thread, how is a Kryptonian spaceship supposed to be an allusion to Mongul and Warworld? And even if it was, Mongul is primarily a Superman villain anyway).
As for the purely financial side, Marvel's strategy of multiple $400-$700M-grossing films leading to a $1B+ teamup film would appear to be much more lucrative than aiming for one the latter alone every few years. Now, to be fair, it's possible that I'm just being overly cynical and WB actually has a plan for a bunch of solo (or at least, non-Superman/Batman-centered) DCCU films spinning out of Justice League. It's also possible that they just believe that all their properties other than Superman and Batman are inherently incapable of drawing a sufficient audience.
Ben Affleck.
BadAss2961
Member
This isn't too hard to imagine with how things are going. It's a no-brainer actually.
If you're gonna take the time to develop Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, Cyborg, Aqauman, etc... And have them as part of a movie that makes a shit load of money, a couple of them are probably going to get their own films. I mean, what are you going to do with all these characters between Justice League movies? If they had no faith in these guys, why bother with them at all? If the plan is not to build an actual DCCU, but to just have a big Batman & Superman film every 3 years, they easily could've done that.
Marvel's format made sense because when you have nothing but B-tier characters, it's not a bad idea to slap together a bunch of movies to get the big picture. DC's format makes sense because when you have a Batman and a Superman, you already have a big picture, and you can use them to jumpstart everything else. This is what it looks like WB/DC is doing.
obin_gam
Member
Lines up with what Snyder was saying about Batman basically being the villain. Also in legal terms Batman v Superman would be pronounced as Batman and Superman.
Beaniedude
Member
After all this talk about legal battles I am going to be extremely disappointed if Superman and Batman don't go to court.
Father_Brain
Banned
And when and if DC announces those films, I'll give them props and reevaluate my assessment of their film strategy accordingly. But not before then.
That would only make sense if WB believed that Cyborg, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, etc. repelled audiences. Which isn't what I said at all.
I think that approach is workable in theory, but not necessarily using MoS as a foundation, or using the same film that introduces Batman to debut Wonder Woman (not, I emphasize, because OMG U CANT INTRODUCE 2 SUPERHEROZ IN THE SAME FILM, but because the nature of the character makes her particularly ill-suited to what's likely a supporting role akin to Black Widow in IM2 or Falcon in TWS.)
BadAss2961
Member
AuthenticM
Member
Seriously, how awesome would that be.
That's what I thought of too at first, but honestly, titles are picked by marketing- it's why foreign titles are fungible and why production can proceed under working titles- so I don't know that we can necessarily read that much into them. That said, if you're going to read into this one, it's revealing.
Like Campea speculates, Batman is the plaintiff with a grievance against Superman... but based on what we know about the parties and what this title is, we know that Superman prevails.
Batman is the loner who doesn't work well with others and sticks to the shadows. This film is built on the world and supporting cast of Man of Steel which provided no indication that the world was aware of extraordinary beings (billionaire vigilantes, amazons, speedsters, space cops, martians, atlanteans, etc)... so their disposition was like Batman's, in the shadows, hidden from the world at large; working independently- if at all.
However, what did Superman do in Man of Steel? He debuted publicly before the world extraterrestrial life, interstellar travel, an invulnerable flying man who could shatter mountains, actively stopping a threat in cooperation with the military. The solar-powered Last Son dawned on humanity and pulled back the curtain on extraordinary being in the cinematic DCU. Rather than be a loner, he was only able to save the world with the assistance of allies on his team.
Dawn of Justice is a none too subtle indication that whatever Batman's grievances, it is ultimately Superman's values and what he put into motion that triumph... being in the light, actively enforcing justice in the world, cooperatively as a team rather than independent agents.
For Superman fans worried about Superman getting second billing, I think the title can be read as this being more of a Superman film than you'd think...
...of course, this is all reading more into marketing than I think is justified.
What's so funny is that everyone now thinks that Marvel's way is THE way to do things, but not only was it risky at the time, but it's the exception that proves the rule. Conventional wisdom has always been that you lead with strength and do spin-offs rather than build your spin-off-level properties to combine into something strong.
That the WB is doing what has traditionally worked shouldn't garner criticism from the peanut gallery that they're doing it all wrong.
Imagine Disney saying, "Eh, we're going to put off the Sequel Trilogy until we can develop all these side films first... and once we know people are into these different aspects of Star Wars again, we'll bring it all together for Episode VII."
Leading with strength (rather than building to it) has always been the rule.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
not all of us are fools in this world. we saw what the Kryptonians did. Superman saved us, he's not guilty of anything. #yaysuperman.
or a shorter way to say this is that it's the dawn of the Justice League. hopefully Batman learns not to be such a sourpuss.
Sure, more concisely, but the buildup is to illustrate that the very concept of a Justice League is antithetical to Batman as we traditionally know him... its one of the reasons Timm's DCAU Batman pretended to not be a charter member to the point of absurdity.
MisterHero
Super Member
That's funny. When Justice League appeared on "The Batman", it was Superman who didn't want to join. He can never have the upper hand.
To be fair though Batman has the Outsiders. He's not always solo.
BadAss2961
Member
That's what it sounds like though. As if the only way to introduce Wonder Woman would be through her own film.
We still don't know how involved she'll be btw. A good sign is that BvS is the setup for Justice League, which Wonder Woman has always been an essential part of. AND we know that she'll be costumed.
Black Widow's roles (and I guess Falcon's too), regardless of the time she gets, are never all that significant since she's not a core part of The Avengers. If played well, Wonder Woman could get half the time Black Widow does in IM2 and still leave more of an impression because of her importance.
I wonder when Nick Fury and Black Widow were announced for IM2 were people overreacting as well, because I can't remember. Alos I'd much rather have Wonder Woman play a significant enough part in this movie than having the Hawkeye introduction in Thor.
superusagi
Neo Member
I'm just worried about all the Dark Knight Returns talk that came out when the film was announced in addition to the Bat-suit with the stubby "Frank Miller ears". I feel like DKR is a pretty odd framing for a story about Superman meeting Batman and then the Justice League happening. DKR was pretty much the antithesis of the whole "hey let's work together" thing. Of course they may just be drawing from that version of Batman rather than the story itself.
Sure, Batman's always had the biggest, active, on-going family while somehow maintaining the reputation of loner in the comics. For a film version, though, they'll probably stick with the reputation rather than try to reconcile a loner with fifty sidekicks, teammates, and Incorprated franchises.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Besides the obvious, Dawn of Justice is a fuckin' ridiculous title.
Father_Brain
Banned
Wonder Woman is fundamentally connected to an entire, fantastical sub-universe within the DC Universe (assuming no radical changes to her ties to Themyscira and Greek mythology, which may yet prove to be an incorrect assumption). She brings in an entire supernatural/mystical element to which none of the characters we know are in BvS share any connection.
By comparison, characters like Black Widow, Falcon, and (in theory) Flash/Green Arrow/Cyborg have much simpler backstories that could be more easily distilled down to a single expository scene.
Now, it's possible that Gadot has a much larger role than generally assumed and that Themyscira will actually play a significant role in the plot, but I'm doubtful for now given the title and promotional emphasis on Superman and Batman.
BadAss2961
Member
Of course not.
Wonder Woman is vital to the DCCU though, so I can understand the concern of her treatment. But if people would just think for a second, they'd realize that it actually won't be easy to relegate Wonder Woman to a Nick Fury or Black Widow. Her part in the League is too big.
Yep.
Cyborg aside (minor role), that might be why she's in this movie and they're not.
pieatorium
Member
they did need fox and sony to remind them though with xmen, mib and spiderman, even then they murdered their first attempt to bring back superman and failed miserably at doing the green lantern. People like to shit on fox and sony now but they were the ones to get things really rolling in the early 00's.
Before that it was really only supes and batman that had been given the blockbuster treatment and it took 11 years after the success of the first superman movie for Batman to happen.
You could try to argue Dick Tracy and TMNT but these were low budget efforts, costing less to make than the original superman unadjusted for inflation and in the turtles case less than half.
There were other attempts in their like judge dread but it followed the unsuccessful formula of lets make a movie into a comic book rather than the successful adapt a comic book into a film. Ironically though when they eventually did do a better adaptation of dredd it bombed more than the original.
Even the first X men movie was a much lower budget attempt compared to its contemporary films. The Mystery Men movie cost almost as much.
The floodgates were well and truly open as far as comic book movies and it took WB a long time after that to get back in the saddle with very mixed results.
If they really knew about superheros making money they wouldn't have lost money making superman returns and green lantern. If they really new about this cash cow there wouldn't be the situation where a mainstream ant man movie is likey to be in theaters before we even hear about a flash or wonder woman movie.
Messypandas
Member
Objection your honour! Prosecution is bateranging the witness!
b&jy77VjiKn$#F
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