Definitely don't waste your time with the TC. Not that I think the UC is all that great, but it atleast somewhat resembles a competent movie.
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Batman v Superman Ultimate Cut |OT| - Men are still good (out now)
- Thread starter Ahasverus
- Start date
Definitely don't waste your time with the TC. Not that I think the UC is all that great, but it atleast somewhat resembles a competent movie.
The bolded is blatantly not true. In pretty much every story, whether we're talking comics or movies or whatever, Batman is formiddably challenged. That's how stories work, or else there is no tension. Even the physically unimposing Riddler wore Batman down into a mad max-esque survivor in his Zero Year event when he basically shut down Gotham City. So no, he doesn't just Gary Stu his way out of every story conflict without a sweat. I've atleast never really seen anything like that in all the comics I've read. People can accuse Batman writers of pulling shit out their asses to have Batman win the day, but they never have him unchallenged.
Furthermore, whats your point here then? That batman actually IS a schoolyard bully that only picks fights with weaker people he can push around?
Lone_Prodigy
Member
I thought the whole Lois and the spear bit was fine.
Batman was done fighting Superman and had to rush to save Martha. Tossing away the spear is a bit dramatic but he doesn't have time to deal with it.
Lois sees it's dangerous and powerful and drops it into water. It's a reasonable action to take, since "toss thing into water only to have it surface later" is a huge trope.
Batman was done fighting Superman and had to rush to save Martha. Tossing away the spear is a bit dramatic but he doesn't have time to deal with it.
Lois sees it's dangerous and powerful and drops it into water. It's a reasonable action to take, since "toss thing into water only to have it surface later" is a huge trope.
Finally got around to seeing this. Never saw the theatrical cut. Honestly not nearly as bad as I thought I'd be, though I guess if I was expecting a good movie I might come away feeling dissapointed. It's a long slog, and not very surprising, outside of a handful of things, which makes it feel much longer, and the laughs are too far in between, but not an unintelligible movie like most said. I mean, way too packed for it's own good with things that don't really add anything to the plot, and don't manage to even explain plot holes that there should be more than enough time to explain, but I always pretty much knew why things were happening. (okay one or two things were like, wait did I miss a scene?).
But it was stupid fun I guess.
But it was stupid fun I guess.
Adam_Vania
Banned
I saw the theatrical cut and hated most of it. There were some good scenes, especially the very start of the movie, but it went downhill fast, and stayed there.
Does the Ultimate Cut explain things better? I was very confused about the arms dealer, the senator, her relationship to Luthor, how easy it was to just give someone access to the world's first alien spacecraft in an era of mass homeland security paranoia due to..... you know... the alien spacecraft!
seriously, how is she able to give Luthor, some guy she has known for ..... how long? .... total access to what is without a doubt the most Top Secret Classified Material in the world? and what is he giving her in return? hell, why doesn't she just create the mutants herself since she apparently doesn't give a shit about the safety of the world and is handing over a deadly alien spacecraft to someone she barely knows?
does the Ultimate Cut explain why everyone works so late? why everybody in every skyscraper has to continue working during an alien attack? how come the people at the Daily Planet seem to work on 24 hour a day cycles covering rural sports?
Does the Ultimate Cut explain things better? I was very confused about the arms dealer, the senator, her relationship to Luthor, how easy it was to just give someone access to the world's first alien spacecraft in an era of mass homeland security paranoia due to..... you know... the alien spacecraft!
seriously, how is she able to give Luthor, some guy she has known for ..... how long? .... total access to what is without a doubt the most Top Secret Classified Material in the world? and what is he giving her in return? hell, why doesn't she just create the mutants herself since she apparently doesn't give a shit about the safety of the world and is handing over a deadly alien spacecraft to someone she barely knows?
does the Ultimate Cut explain why everyone works so late? why everybody in every skyscraper has to continue working during an alien attack? how come the people at the Daily Planet seem to work on 24 hour a day cycles covering rural sports?
I have no idea what you're talking about here, lol.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
Seriously. WTF?
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
They're pretty original complaints about the film, though. Credit where credit is due.
Talladega Knight
Member
Also, why doesn't anyone recognize that Clark Kent is Superman? What's that about?
The ultimate cut explains things regarding the bullets, the import licence is explained the film (here's an article about it), the gov't didn't know about Doomsday. Doomsday was the final contingency for Lex, he hoped that if Batman failed to killed Superman he could use Doomsday who was supposed to be under his control to kill Superman.
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
I'd understand this if you've only seen the theatrical cut, but the ultimate cut adds a lot to this plotline.
Lois found a specially designed bullet that was used in the African incident in the beginning of the film that was used to implicate Superman in what happened. Through her investigation she found that the materials are ones developed by and only available to Lexcorp.
It's another piece of the puzzle that reveals how Lex was manipulating the situation.
Okay, but she's an investigative reporter. No matter what the catalyst was it was always going to be just something for her to investigate. Why was the building in Mexico burning? Just to give Superman someone to save. You can do that with literally any plot thread for any movie. They all exist just to make something happen.
I know but why did Lex use experimental bullets that might be traced back to him? Why not use regular bullets? I don't get it
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
I believe the bullets were special in that they wouldn't leave evidence after the fact or at least would help in framing Superman (Superman wouldn't shoot people before burning them, for example). Lois only has hers because they misfired and it lodged into her journal.
Well look at what it took for Lois to get that info. We already know Lex has friends in the government likely looking out for him. Swanwyck just happened to be sympathetic due to his history with her and Superman. If Lois had been able to just see any ol' bullet specialist that would have been one thing.
So the special bullets Lex made don't get lodged inside people or something so it wouldn't like like people were shot before being burned by superman?
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
Yes, I don't have the movie in front of me at the moment, but I do believe they quickly explain it as such. The bullets were designed specifically to help in framing Superman.
I don't remember this at all. I'd go so far as to say that's not in the movie.
HanzSnubSnub
Member
Saw the Ultimate Cut a few days ago, and I have to say, it definitely made BvS more watchable. Unfortunately it takes 3 hours to get there, but hey, it's better now. Still, I might be in the minority, but I think Man of Steel is still better.
BvS Theatrical: 6.5/10
BvS Extended: 7.5/10
Man of Steel: 8/10
BvS Theatrical: 6.5/10
BvS Extended: 7.5/10
Man of Steel: 8/10
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
I'll double check in a bit, but it's not beyond my ability to have fabricated this. I'll look into it and report back.
I think he's right, because I remember in the theatrical cut, wondering how the hell they could frame Superman for killing people by shooting them. But it made much more sense in the Ultimate Cut.
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
Unless it's a scene I've missed, and I think I've gone through them all: Scene in Desert; Scene in Apartment where Lois finds bullet; Scene with Perry talking about bullet; Scene with Jenna Malone's character; Scene with the General; Second scene with General; Scene where Jenna Malone makes the connection between the bullet and the wheelchair.
And yeah, gotta own this one as looks like they never specifically mention anything special about the bullets beyond being military prototypes. The fact that a small rebel group in Africa is using advanced rounds no one has seen before is what sets her off investigating it.
I think I combined the bits of dialogue where Jenna Malone is talking about how Lex specifically modified the wheelchair to make it impossible for Superman to see inside it with the bits where she was talking about how unique the bullet is.
So yeah, add that to the list of small details that could have improved things a little bit more.
The reason it made more sense is because in the UC they show KGBeast burning the bodies to make it look like Superman used his heat vision. Nothing to do with the bullets. I don't know if this was intended but the bullet thing doesn't bother me because they were in Africa in the middle of nowhere. No one is going to do a real investigation. It was just coincidence (aka: plot reasons) that Lois managed to get her hands on one.
Just wish the movie explained why Lex had his men use prototype silver bullets.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V0fR2xlaIWo
Basically Lex uses Lois as bait to draw out Superman.
Uses the mercenaries to kill villagers and make it seem like a firefight broke out and use the prototype bullets and fire to make it seem like Superman fucked the area up
Lois went on an investigation and uncovered the bullets were Lexcorp
The govt won't go public with it cos it would implicate them too.
But he uses Lois as bait whether or not she figures any of that bullet shit out. Making Superman look bad is one thing, but the bullet aspect of it is irrelevant.
Lexcorp is or is attempting to become the Lockheed Martin of the BvS world. Hence Lex and the senator's conversations, the 'planetary security' pitch.
Because Lex loves his own tech and he has very little common sense. The Ultimate Cut makes this much more obvious imo. What seems like an elaborate scheme planned with intentional consequences is shown to be more like Lex just using the world as a playground for him to use his fun toys, and when people start figuring it out and the noose around him tightens, he goes scorched Earth and just kills everyone off.
lazybones18
Banned
Finally saw the extended version. Still very good. Still find the Martha shit to be hilariously dumb. Still think Doomsday should have been used for a future movie
Theatrical cut: 8.5
Ultimate cut: 9
one question: The being that disappeared or disintegrated when the troops came into the Kryptonian ship to apprenhend Lex...who or what was that?
Theatrical cut: 8.5
Ultimate cut: 9
one question: The being that disappeared or disintegrated when the troops came into the Kryptonian ship to apprenhend Lex...who or what was that?
GringoSuave89
Banned
Steppenwolf. Dude is bad, but not as bad as other dudes. And stuff.
Tizoc
Member
Can someone explain the Victim Fund cheques? Who wrote those on them? Was it Luthor?
EDIT: Oh and what was
Also Luthor's the best character in this movie and he's one of my most hated DC characters heh.
I swear this movie is slow, the first half is so friggin' slow I may as well had fallen asleep if I had watched in the theatre.
Last 1/3 with all the fights and action was good but honestly...
Good parts:
Luthor
The fights at the end
Bad:
Everything else
EDIT: Oh and what was
the demon-like creature that Luthor was creating or summoning?
Also Luthor's the best character in this movie and he's one of my most hated DC characters heh.
I swear this movie is slow, the first half is so friggin' slow I may as well had fallen asleep if I had watched in the theatre.
Last 1/3 with all the fights and action was good but honestly...
Good parts:
Luthor
The fights at the end
Bad:
Everything else
IonicSnake
Banned
Lex was intercepting those and sending them back to Bruce with the writing on them to push him towards fighting Superman, somehow Lex knows Bruce is Batman.
That thing is as said in a post above Steppenwolf, he's going to be the villain in JL. Steppenwolf is Darksides uncle and leads his military.
bananafactory
Banned
Is there seriously no way to rent this? I don't wanna drop $25 to watch it
Checked both iTunes and the PSN store and only the theatrical is for rent
Checked both iTunes and the PSN store and only the theatrical is for rent
ebullientprism
Member
Watched it, never saw the theatrical release. Its such incoherent storytelling. Or maybe I just stopped paying attention. The first hour and half is excruciatingly dull.
Also as a non comic book reader a few questions.
Why is Batman killing the fuck out of like 50 people. I thought he was against murder but here he JudgeDredding it up to the max.
How does everyone know Bruce Wayne is Batman? Wonderwoman knew it. Lex knew it. Superman knows it? Worst secret identity ever. And thats in a film where a guy is unrecognizable after taking off his glasses.
Who was the robot guy in the Meta humans folder?
What is Steppenwolf?
3 hours and its still utterly confusing. Were they planning a 10 episode TV show?
Also as a non comic book reader a few questions.
Why is Batman killing the fuck out of like 50 people. I thought he was against murder but here he JudgeDredding it up to the max.
How does everyone know Bruce Wayne is Batman? Wonderwoman knew it. Lex knew it. Superman knows it? Worst secret identity ever. And thats in a film where a guy is unrecognizable after taking off his glasses.
Who was the robot guy in the Meta humans folder?
What is Steppenwolf?
3 hours and its still utterly confusing. Were they planning a 10 episode TV show?
Just a quick heads up, the ultimate edition on 4k frustratingly only comes with a standard edition bluray. No idea why there's only each version on different formats in the case. Only got the 4k version as a gift because I thought the bluray would be the ultimate edition too, and I wanted to kick start my 4k collection.
Oh well, at least it makes me want to upgrade even sooner.
Oh well, at least it makes me want to upgrade even sooner.
Never saw the theatrical version, but I just watched the UC.
First 15 minutes or so are pretty good aside from that goofy bat scene. I laughed so hard at that. It went downhill after that for the next 90 minutes or so, but I found the last hour to be enjoyable. Martha line was as bad as people said it was.
It feels like they crammed too much and added a bunch of unnecessary stuff. Felt too long and boring most of the time.
5/10 for me.
First 15 minutes or so are pretty good aside from that goofy bat scene. I laughed so hard at that. It went downhill after that for the next 90 minutes or so, but I found the last hour to be enjoyable. Martha line was as bad as people said it was.
It feels like they crammed too much and added a bunch of unnecessary stuff. Felt too long and boring most of the time.
5/10 for me.
bishopcruz
Member
I think part of it is that people kind of see what they want to see. For sure Batman directly kills the people in the car chase, and the guys with the minigun, so yeah, about 5. But when they talk about murdering people, or how he kills people in the warehouse fight, I just do not understand how they get that. This Batman isn't far off from say DKR Batman, but the way people talk he is the goddamned Punisher.
He def killed those guys with the grenade in the warehouse fight. And then he killed KGbeast and the other dudes in that room.
That guy primed a grenade and Batman prevented himself from getting blown up. That idiot went back for it. That's not on Batman. In the time that guy rushed for the grenade he could have gone the other way and survived.
bishopcruz
Member
And KGBeast blew his own ass up, technically. Again, it seems the biggest change in this bats, is like Dark Knight Returns Batman, he doesn't care much about collateral damage when it comes to criminals. Not my favorite take, but nowhere near the Punisher that people like to paint him as.
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
Watched the Ultimate Edition today.
Was hoping that i wasn't going to agree with all the negativity and during the first....15 minutes or so i thought that might have been the case. But really soon it failed to grab my attention and not long after that i just didn't even care what the hell was happening anymore. To me it felt like the movie was all over the place and took way too long to get somewhere.
After all the hype about Ben as Wayne/Batman...yeah he's....cool i guess? To be honest i hate it that in this one Bats is also using a voice deformer, why? Seriously that shit bothers me a lot. Just let the actor use his normal voice, for christ's sake even when he's talking to Alfred he's still using that voice thingy...sigh. I also really didn't like that armor at all, should have been more Batman with his standard costume here. But i get it, he could only fight Supes this way.
The transition from being enemies with Supes and friends was ridiculous, made no sense at all. Before that fight, which wasn't all that great if you ask me, they were very close to simply understanding eachother and after all the fighting..it's just ONE name that is enough for both of them to become buddies. This was executed poorly as hell. Maybe it's just me but i could have sworn Bats has definitely murdered several people in this movie and no not just the 'accidental' explosions and such. Maybe this Batman was based on a comic i haven't read, but this is not Batman for me. Oh and the guy playing Lex Luthor was annoying as hell to me. As if he was trying to be Heath Ledger in some scenes. Not fond of Jesse's acting at all here.
Could and should have been so much more. I guess Snyder just can't do it.
Was hoping that i wasn't going to agree with all the negativity and during the first....15 minutes or so i thought that might have been the case. But really soon it failed to grab my attention and not long after that i just didn't even care what the hell was happening anymore. To me it felt like the movie was all over the place and took way too long to get somewhere.
After all the hype about Ben as Wayne/Batman...yeah he's....cool i guess? To be honest i hate it that in this one Bats is also using a voice deformer, why? Seriously that shit bothers me a lot. Just let the actor use his normal voice, for christ's sake even when he's talking to Alfred he's still using that voice thingy...sigh. I also really didn't like that armor at all, should have been more Batman with his standard costume here. But i get it, he could only fight Supes this way.
The transition from being enemies with Supes and friends was ridiculous, made no sense at all. Before that fight, which wasn't all that great if you ask me, they were very close to simply understanding eachother and after all the fighting..it's just ONE name that is enough for both of them to become buddies. This was executed poorly as hell. Maybe it's just me but i could have sworn Bats has definitely murdered several people in this movie and no not just the 'accidental' explosions and such. Maybe this Batman was based on a comic i haven't read, but this is not Batman for me. Oh and the guy playing Lex Luthor was annoying as hell to me. As if he was trying to be Heath Ledger in some scenes. Not fond of Jesse's acting at all here.
Could and should have been so much more. I guess Snyder just can't do it.
To be honest, that was one of the few things I actually liked about this movie. I don't read the comics or anything, I just watch the movies, but a grown man using this weird grumbly voice always seemed way too goofy for me. I know they're movies about a grown man dressing up as a giant bat to scare people so it's inherently goofy, but I just could never take that voice thing seriously, especially in the Nolan films. Just remembered me of some goth kids from my highschool years, trying their best to be intimidating but just coming across as tryhard kids. This makes way more sense to me.
The armor was fine as well. He was going up against Supes and the fact that he basically had to wear a tank to get it done was pretty fun to me. I think he just uses his regular costume before/after.
Didn't like much of this movie besides some of the themes (although terribly handled) and some of the visuals though. But the Batman stuff was fine for me.
Except that he really doesn't deserve the title 'World's Greatest Detective'. Both Superman and Batman are incredibly dimwitted.
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
Agreed. The voice Bale put on in the Nolan Trilogy annoyed the crap out of me as well. What i meant is they should simply be talking in a normal way. Superman talks in a normal way to people, i want Batman to do that too. Those weird grumbly voices or voice deformers are totally not necessary in my opinion.
xXCrazyCostaXX
Member
Kinda bothered me too
**Suicide Squad Spoilers on Bats**
he still has the modulator but it's toned down. I liked it in this film
Discotheque
Banned
Edit: wrong thread
All his villains gain an upper hand on him, that's usually how stories work.
And in Pre-Crisis era even the average thug would pose a moderate challenge to Batman.
Nemesis121
Member
That thing is a fucking mess, some of the important plot details were cut for time, the TC is just a horrible movie, goes down as one of the worst movies ever seen, but the UC fixes the movie, had they released that in the movies it would have gotten $1billion with ease..