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Battlefield 3 |OT| My Body is Advised
- Thread starter ColonialRaptor
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zephervack
Member
mr_nothin said:
In my opinion Mortar should have 3, 4 bullets at most, also, make them impossible to shoot unless they have a clear view of the objective, that would fix most of the mortaring on Seine Crossing, or at least it would be easier to counter attack them with normal weapons.
kendrid said:
Here's the sun in real life http://i.imgur.com/OIWzK. Notice how it is not at all blinding and yet when you look at it with your own eyes and not in a photograph ....
cobragt4001
Banned
But if you use the heavy barrel it will increase recoil but yes, it increase accuracy. I have been killing snipers like crazy but I wish ARs could get a 8x scope but I guess that would make the ARs OP.PatzCU said:
zephervack said:
I guess DICE's mindset is that since the Support class has infinite ammo thanks to the ability to resupply themselves, then limiting mortar ammo is pointless. But I would still prefer that they would do so if for no other reason than it requires the person spamming mortar to stop, even briefly.
I also think that mortars should always have friendly fire enabled, even on non-FF servers. That would discourage people from spamming mortars endlessly as the assault guys move in the capture.
BattleMonkey
Member
iam220 said:
So the tac light in real life would be even more powerful!
mr_nothin said:
Mortar spam is only an issue in select maps really. Most of the maps, one can simply have a sniper take out the mortar user, counter mortar, or the easiest of them all is to have air power take em out.
mr_nothin said:
1) it's not difficult to unlock the mortar, if you havent - that's on you.
2) when i die using a mortar it's either to another mortar or to an assaultweapon. There are plenty of ways to get to me.
3) in rush, they are really useful in very limited situations. beginning of seine crossing is one, beginning of operation metro another, and of course the bazaar. Anything else, it's mostly a waste of time.
4) i dont think you are angry about them because they are unbalanced, i think it is because you feel helpless when you die to them. Much like how everyone likes to complain about 'cowardly' snipers.
I say give mortars a lot more deviation. Decrease accuracy on those things alot. Hell, itzephervack said:
might be a good idea to only allow them to be fired in painted areas or something. Give
them limited ammo and give them a longer cool down period and only allow 1 or 2 per team.
No, I dont feel helpless and i dont think snipers are cowardly. I actually dont mind beingjorma said:
killed by snipers because it takes some skill to snipe....especially at a long range. And
YES, I'm angry about them because they are unbalanced, how did you conclude
otherwise? I called out a few of the balance issues I have with them. They are basically
unlimited spam grenades that you can throw from afar. I'm tired of people saying "oh you
only die from mortars if you camp"....that's BS. I've had so many random mortar deaths.
Patrick Bateman
Member
Dice should really consider taking out laser and taclight with the next patch.
Speaking of mortars, I was playing Rush on Noshahr Canals, and the Attackers thought it would be oh so clever to drop onto the superbig building at the first sets of MCOMS. You know, that huge one. They dropped by helicopter, and just sat there sniping everyone. Basically a whole team up there.
So, I switched class to Support, ran behind a building in the Defense Area. And let it rain ontop of that building. Over and over and over and over again.
It was glorious! SO many kills. And yet they kept coming back there. Even trying to snipe me, but as I was behind a building, they couldn't do shit.
Twats. If you cheese, then I'm going to cheese the fuck out of you even more. (Plus, M249 + IRNV + Bipod + Extended Mag + Squad Ammo = unstoppable force.)
So, I switched class to Support, ran behind a building in the Defense Area. And let it rain ontop of that building. Over and over and over and over again.
It was glorious! SO many kills. And yet they kept coming back there. Even trying to snipe me, but as I was behind a building, they couldn't do shit.
Twats. If you cheese, then I'm going to cheese the fuck out of you even more. (Plus, M249 + IRNV + Bipod + Extended Mag + Squad Ammo = unstoppable force.)
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Patrick Bateman said:
Laser is not that bad. Neither is *patched* tactlight.
BattleMonkey said:
Nah, just trying to point out that a picture cannot accurately convey the brightness and distoration of having a powerful light shinned in your eyes. Same thing is true in game, which is why they needed to exaggerate the effect. Making it resemble what it would look like in a picture is not realistic, might as well just rid of it.
BattleMonkey
Member
Relaxed Muscle said:
lasers are fine, to me all they have done is save my ass on multiple occassions as it basically tells me to dive for cover.
iam220 said:
Thing is that is how tac lights really look like in real life. They are incredibly powerful and made to blind people in cqb situations. The game over did it with the effect and the range of it, but they do actually work very well even in day light. Got one on my real steel AK and it's very strong.
Using it in daylight outdoors though should basically be a big "shoot me" sign.
BattleMonkey
Member
mr_nothin said:
Again it's only an issue when dealing with a map like Crossing with it's close nature and choke points. Mortar spam having any effect is rare outside of bombarding rush defenders who hover around the mcoms.
BattleMonkey said:
Yeah that's what I mean, they HAD to do that because your monitor cannot re-produce the brightness of a tactical light, which is why when looking at it on that picture it's not that bright. (Thats why I posted the picture of the sun).
If they try to reproduce the effect on a screen that is no where near as bright as a tac light than it becomes useless. Which is why i think that making it look 1:1 with the real life equivalent (in terms of size of the ball of light) is a mistake.
edit: if they toned it down maybe 20% and not like 80% as seen on those screen-shots, than that would be ok.
Patrick Bateman
Member
Taclight still looks like the player has a huge chunk of burning magnesium on his gun...Relaxed Muscle said:
Do you stand still while pushing? People that stand in the obvious corners get rocked by mortars. If you are actually pushing through though you should be fine.mr_nothin said:
Also take cover under something
. Seines Crossing has plenty of spots where you can take a point and be safe from mortars.edit: bridge is probably the only exception
mr_nothin said:
And i in turn told why why they are not. It's not an automatic killing machine like you are alluding, as i said they are only really useful in some very limited situations.
I mainly get killed by f2000 (assault) and scar (engie) and those fucking rpgs (engie), so i guess those weapons are all equally unbalanced?
And campers (people standing still more than 10 seconds after they are spotted) are the only ones you do get to nail when using mortar. Campers and people trying to arm/disarm an outdoor mcom. Otherwise i'm way better off with the infrared scope and lmg. That's how they are useful, so unless you are arming an mcom (making you fair game) or playing a sniper you should not really have any problem with them.
edit: and how do you even begin to take first b on seine without a mortar? It's so insanely easy to defend otherwise.
Anton Sugar
Member
Atomski said:
Suppressors are also bugged right now, half of the suppressed guns still show you on the minimap. Given how many people use suppressors, spam may be reduced as a result.
I'm not seeing why nobody would agree that mortars need to have limited ammo instead of unlimited ammo. Did I say take mortars out of the game? No, I said limit them.
Also, why is it that when one calls out an imbalance, that person must get killed by it all the
time? I can see the imbalance in mortars w/o being killed by them constantly. They can be
set up anywhere, have unlimited ammo, very short cooldown period, are pretty much 95%
accurate and can be used by the whole team if one chooses to do so.
Also, why is it that when one calls out an imbalance, that person must get killed by it all the
time? I can see the imbalance in mortars w/o being killed by them constantly. They can be
set up anywhere, have unlimited ammo, very short cooldown period, are pretty much 95%
accurate and can be used by the whole team if one chooses to do so.
Also, this. I read about this yesterday. And Anton...I think you underestimate how much ppl like to spam explosions...even if they dont get a killAnton Sugar said:
Attack helicoptre gunner is even more fun than drinvin a MBT? Yes! I spawned on a guy on Canals and I immediatly blast another chopper out of the sky, then another one, then a couple of ground vehicles, even a fucking jet. Bam, bam, bam, unlocked heatseekers and stealth. Then we got shot down. The next two times we were brought down rather quick and I parachuted into the fanger zone, sprinted forward and just made it out alive. Swam to the flag, spotted a couple of dudes but couldn´t kill them. They tock the flag, I swam around their back to get into the IFV spawned for them to take care of their vehicle. I got it, but my opponent was already gone, not to be seen again :/
Didn´t do that great points wise, but I had fun. Maybe one day a GAF pro will let me fly with him.
PS: Finally got over 50 vehicles destroyed, at 61 now. Feels good, but I need more, more, moooore.
Didn´t do that great points wise, but I had fun. Maybe one day a GAF pro will let me fly with him.
PS: Finally got over 50 vehicles destroyed, at 61 now. Feels good, but I need more, more, moooore.
Woo-Fu
Banned
mr_nothin said:
It is a team game. You don't have to counter-mortar but somebody on your team does or the other team has an advantage.
Welcome to combined arms in a team game. If you don't like it, there are plenty of other games where you can run around in circles as infantry just shooting people.
if they mortar, I counter-mortar.
if they whore armor, I switch to engineer and put mines everywhere, hit them with RPGs, and whore my own armor.
if they're snipers I counter-snipe or flank and knife.
if they continually base rape in jets I get in the AA and turn them to swiss cheese.
if they lay mines everywhere I use IR to spot the mines and then blow them up for easy points/ribbons(two explosives = one ribbon).
All of the various means of attack and counterattack are what makes this game entertaining.
People complain because very few people like to use Support, and never bother to unlock the mortar.Woo-Fu said:
I actually had a great game using just the mortar last night. I was playing with a friend who used Recon the entire game and would just hide out and spot for me, and take out counter-mortars whenever they popped up.
Anton Sugar
Member
Woo-Fu
Banned
Your tweaks would render mortars ineffectual, conveniently allowing you to play the way you want to, safe in the knowledge that you can ignore anybody dumb enough to waste a slot on mortars.mr_nothin said:
Somebody using a mortar is the easiest person to kill in this game after somebody who is AFK. They don't move, they're pinned to a piece of equipment, and they can't even see you coming.
If the enemy team is wasting 4 slots on mortars you use ONE slot to counter-mortar. That person shoots and moves, focusing on counter-mortar. That gives you a 3 person advantage assaulting. Given equivalent skill levels you should win. And yes, one counter-mortar can deal with 4 mortars. The only way they can avoid getting countered is to shoot and scoot, which cuts their rate of fire by ~50-75%(just guessing here but shooting and scooting you put out a lot fewer shells and you can't focus-fire people who are pinned down).
The last time I played Seine Crossing I had a recon in my platoon using the MAV to spot the support guys with mortars on their backs and we were countering them even before they fired their first shot.
You might want to walk a mile in the other guy's shoes before calling for nerfs to a class you yourself are unwilling to level. Mosts teams are already >50% engineer as it is, if we're going to start nerfing we've got a much better target.
Anton Sugar
Member
mr_nothin said:I'm not seeing why nobody would agree that mortars need to have limited ammo instead of unlimited ammo. Did I say take mortars out of the game? No, I said limit them.
Also, why is it that when one calls out an imbalance, that person must get killed by it all the
time? I can see the imbalance in mortars w/o being killed by them constantly. They can be
set up anywhere, have unlimited ammo, very short cooldown period, are pretty much 95%
accurate and can be used by the whole team if one chooses to do so.
Also, this. I read about this yesterday. And Anton...I think you underestimate how much ppl like to spam explosions...even if they dont get a kill
This is true, and I agree 100% that ammo should be limited. It doesn't matter that Support can resupply himself--make the resupply rate the slowest in the game. It would at least reduce spam.
The long-range scopes for the AR's are fantastic at long ranges, but the crazy zoom makes them terrible for close/mid range combat. You need to be pointed exactly where you're already planning on firing before you scope, and even then, a moving target at anything but long-range is gonna be hard to follow. You simply miss out on too much unless you're playing like a sniper.cobragt4001 said:
I find that the assault rifles definitely have an advantage in range over the carbines of the engineers. For me, this is enough to justify using this class. I prefer being on my feet and having that range advantage in a firefight. Perhaps thats just the CoD-fan in me still talking, but its true. I'm only just really getting into the rhythm of healing and reviving, but I'm starting to rack up a lot of points as Assault, even if I tend to die a fair bit trying to revive people. I think I'm safe, but nope!
I use engineer on a few select maps where its vehicle mayhem, but I prefer running and gunning. I'm good at it, and I somehow enjoy that fear I get when I'm alone near an enemy tank. Very tense. I like to tease a tank and distract it as much as I can when I know its hopeless and just hope an engineer or another tank comes to my rescue.
I think getting rid of the IR scope for engineers and reducing the power of the SCAR just slightly would balance out the classes much better. The tactical light could be toned down a bit, but it doesn't bother me all that much. I still kill a lot of people aiming that crap at me, but like I said, I've still got that CoD spray-and-pray mentality sometimes which does still work on occasion.
Woo-Fu
Banned
I toss out an ammo-bag right before I place the mortar, fire a couple rounds and move, rinse and repeat. Limiting ammo count won't do anything to that.
If you want to make a real change you will need to move the mortar to the same gadget slot as the ammo bag and/or limit the RoF of the mortar itself.
None of these changes are needed, but if you're going to lobby for something like that at least go with something that will actually make a difference.
Again, if somebody is "spamming" mortars they're not moving which means it takes one mortar shell from one person on your team to end their spam.
Mortar spam is the least of my worries when explosive-perk engineers are running around with ~9 RPGs in their backpack.
If you want to make a real change you will need to move the mortar to the same gadget slot as the ammo bag and/or limit the RoF of the mortar itself.
None of these changes are needed, but if you're going to lobby for something like that at least go with something that will actually make a difference.
Again, if somebody is "spamming" mortars they're not moving which means it takes one mortar shell from one person on your team to end their spam.
Mortar spam is the least of my worries when explosive-perk engineers are running around with ~9 RPGs in their backpack.
Easiest person to kill? The guy on the mortar is hiding behind a wall of hisWoo-Fu said:Your tweaks would render mortars ineffectual, conveniently allowing you to play the way you want to, safe in the knowledge that you can ignore anybody dumb enough to waste a slot on mortars.
Somebody using a mortar is the easiest person to kill in this game after somebody who is AFK. They don't move, they're pinned to a piece of equipment, and they can't even see you coming.
If the enemy team is wasting 4 slots on mortars you use ONE slot to counter-mortar. That person shoots and moves, focusing on counter-mortar. That gives you a 3 person advantage assaulting. Given equivalent skill levels you should win. And yes, one counter-mortar can deal with 4 mortars. The only way they can avoid getting countered is to shoot and scoot, which cuts their rate of fire by ~50-75%(just guessing here but shooting and scooting you put out a lot fewer shells and you can't focus-fire people who are pinned down).
The last time I played Seine Crossing I had a recon in my platoon using the MAV to spot the support guys with mortars on their backs and we were countering them even before they fired their first shot.
You might want to walk a mile in the other guy's shoes before calling for nerfs to a class you yourself are unwilling to level. Mosts teams are already >50% engineer as it is, if we're going to start nerfing we've got a much better target.
teammates...how exactly is that the easiest person to kill? An AFK standing right next to
the guy on the mortar is just as hard to get to as the guy on the mortar. You have to get
through the whole team to get to him.
I'm not trying to make the game "play how I want to play it". I'm using logic here. How do
the tweaks make the mortar ineffective? It makes mortars less effective because they
are TOO effective as of now...just like the tactical flashlights are too effective and needed
to be toned down.
Mortars are really only a problem on the close quarters/urban maps
and that's exactly why they need limited ammo. It's a close quarters maps...he can
almost spam anywhere and hit ppl. There are so many choke points in the close quarters
maps and that makes the mortars a little bit too effective. Just limit the ammo and that
limits the usage.
Limiting the ammo will do something, even with ammo packs. All Dice has to do is slowWoo-Fu said:
down the amount of time in which mortars can be resupplied with ammo. Just like they did
with frag grenades.
Grenades are basically the last thing you get when you're resupplying
and it takes a bit of time to resupply them even then. That stopped a lot of the grenade
spamming from BC2. I'm just saying that the same thing should be done with mortars
because the mortars are taking the place of grenade spamming from BC2.
Also, I like your idea of replacing ammo with mortars but we're already in short supply of
suppliers supplying ammo :/
Yeah, I also think something needs to be done about mortars. I think my biggest beef with them is their range though. I don't see the point in them being able to hang back in spawn and still kill me on my side of the Seine. Even if I'm gonna counter mortar them that means I have to expose myself a lot more than they do.
Red Blaster
Member
Jesus guys, all this bitching about this and that will lead Dice into making every weapon suck ass. The taclight was fine and was balanced appropriately, it blinds people but at the same times clearly reveals their position.
The only thing that really needs tuning are the SCAR and RPG splash damage values, and that's more of the fact that they nullify some of the other classes strengths over anything else.
The only thing that really needs tuning are the SCAR and RPG splash damage values, and that's more of the fact that they nullify some of the other classes strengths over anything else.
Woo-Fu
Banned
mr_nothin said:
I find it ironic that you're using a support guy as an avatar but are unwilling to play one yourself to effectively counter-mortar and or provide ammo for your team. Again, perhaps you should consider why you don't want to play Support before calling for nerfs.
Like I've said many times already, one mortar shell counters the enemy mortar. If he is spamming mortars he can't avoid that shell, he can't see it coming. If you really want him dead then perhaps you should expand your horizons and play a class that can effectively counter him instead of crying for nerfs.
I'll leave it at that. I've been arguing on forums against infantry players who don't want to get killed by anything other than a bullet fired from a rifle since the dawn of Battlefield. They hate combined arms and want to reduce the complexity of the game down to who fired their overpowered IRNV-equipped SCAR-H first. They could play just about any other team FPS in the world and get what they want but instead they try to change the only one that provides the experience I want. Gets kind of depressing when you realize if they had their way we'd just be playing CoD XXVI with a texture swap.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
mbmonk said:
Seine crossing CQ is awful on PC for the mortars reason, get 3 guys spawning mortars, get the other teammates cover both bridges, proceed to baserape ,the first team that does that succefully wins.
Actually a few smgs and pistols are getting a buff while the an-91 and scar are getting debuffed. Also, either jets will be getting a buff or stingers will get a debuff.Red Blaster said:
It seems they are making the right choices so far and not just trying to make every gun suck. Also, SMGs still need a fix for their hit indications. You cant tell when you're getting hit until you're dead and it just feels like you died in 1 hit.
When I literally have 4-5 guys playing support on mortars already, I dont think I need to add to the mortar spamming. That's exactly why I dont use mortar when I play support.Woo-Fu said:I find it ironic that you're using a support guy as an avatar but are unwilling to play one yourself to effectively counter-mortar and or provide ammo for your team. Again, perhaps you should consider why you don't want to play Support before calling for nerfs.
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