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Battlefield 4 |OT2| Is it fixed yet?
- Thread starter Overdoziz
- Start date
Thanks for letting us know. See you for Battlefield 5.
Netcode? It's probably better than it has ever been on any other BF game before this patch.
What do you think is wrong with vehicle balance? To me the only problem is scout choppers being too good at everything they do, but that's a problem that might be too late to fix.
You have a problem with airbursts, but those were nerfed so much this patch that they are now almost useless.
COD gunplay is the only real problem I agree with you, even with the increased TTK, it's still too fast. I would love a TTK similar to what they have in Planetside 2.
questionmark
Member
Doubtful. Even if I were to play it, will you even be playing against anything but bots?
Even if it is true, that's not really saying much. I'm still shooting through people. I'm still being killed around corners. This all occurred in BC2 as well, and it was probably the biggest issue I had with with the game. I do not really feel that BF4 in it's current state is any better than it was in BC2 though.
Scout helicopters are definitely the biggest problem. But the root of the problem is much deeper imo. It's the jets. Because of the existence of jets, the entire meta of the game has changed, and not for the better. BC2 was so awesome because it was the perfect balance of infantry and vehicle combat. This balance has been completely messed up in both BF3 and BF4. Air vehicles are way too mobile, to combat this, Dice has added a shitload of lock on weaponry. It's incredibly gimmicky gameplay where players are trying to outnumber an opposing players gimmicks. Just played a game on Flood Zone where a scout helicopter racked up well over 10 K
. He was too good to rely on hitting him with the rpg. I got a few hits in with the Igla, but he would just fly away till the cooldown on his flares was up and come back. All the time with an engineer repairing him. Aside from the air vehicles, I have a small issue with the heavy tanks having too high acceleration. Ultimately, the air vehicles are the problem though.Not going to claim that helicopters in BC2 were perfect, but they were so much better balanced than this mess.
I'm still being two shot by a guy sitting on a roof 200 meters away just aiming in my direction and holding down mouse1. It's not nearly nerfed enough in my opinion. It should just be outright removed.
This and the vehicle balance are the two biggest issues I have. I can live with the netcode, just like I did in BC2, but the gameplay just isn't there for me.
Yes, yes I would. But thanks for the snark and knee-jerk reactions.
In before Kane.
Only in boost. If you don't do boost they don't have high acceleration. It's when boosting happens that the wonky sliding physics that were there with BF3 kick in.
I agree Jets are powerful (hi, Kane) but also made entirely redundant (hi, Kane!) with helicopters already in the game. I'd rather they take out the Jet, take out the Scout Helicopter (or nerf the guns) rebalance the Stinger/IG-LA and make the attack helicopter a little less squishy (shock and horror given my hate for that)
No they weren't. You just think they were because they were able to fly around in circles of death with no lock-on ability unless you landed a tracer dart on them.
questionmark
Member
What did you expect when you threw the first snark?
A better comeback than my aversion to play Counter-Strike online, but whatever. People come into this thread go "OMG NEVER BUYING ANOTHER BF AGAIN" it's cliche.
Facism
Member
I found my niche in BC2 with the tracer dart. I'd fucking love an update of that game
I wouldn't mind a rebalance on the helicopters and dropping the objective harm with a few areas of indestructible cover for Rush.
Rush got hella hilariously broken in minutes with a good team of 3-4 C4 assaults resupplying and knocking trees down in minutes.
questionmark
Member
I never had an issue with a helicopter flying around in a circle of death in BC2 like they do in BF4. I've played a few games with my friend where we would be flying around in circles of death, but that is ultimately because the opponents were incapable. The helicopters in BC2 could not maneuver like a kolibri in the air, and between the CG (with or without a tracer), the AT4, and the AA-guns you had, helicopters were much easier to take down as infantry.
Then you haven't played enough BC2, IMO.
BC2 had "limiters" on console (PC didn't have them but you could manage) to where the attack chopper gained MASSIVE speed due to a physics bug or some bullshit that allowed them gain acceleration while circling. It was nearly impossible to land a shot on the helicopter if the pilot kept the speed going.
BF3/4 changed this to where attempting to do that will tip the helicopters over (thankfully) but it brought in a host of issues with introducing lock-on launchers like the Stinger. A good idea for the BC2-style helicopters but terrible for the more mobile launchers because there wasn't "enough cover" for them to escape the Stingers.
BF4 introduced mobility which just outright fucks over the helicopters if they get mobility hit. That's the major issue for the attack chopper with (again) the lack of cover to attempt to prevent lock-ons.
If the maps had more buildings like Dawnbreaker, the Stinger/IG-LA would be nearly negated.
I mean we can rose-tint goggle about BC2 and it being "better than BF3/4" which I'd agree with some stipulations on. But vehicle balance wise? No. The helicopters would shit all over the ground vehicles in good hands AND infantry couldn't touch them unlike BF3/4.
If anything we both agree that air vehicles are still bullshit. Just BF3/4 moved it to the Jets more so while nerfing the attack chopper since the "Jet counter" was supposed to be the mobile anti-air which just chews up nearly everything else in seconds.
As for the XM25: Yes it can two shot you. That's kinda the point for it. Is it abused? Yes. It it "broken?" Kinda... not really.
SolidSnakeUS
Member
Honestly, the Gustav was a godsend against helicopters in BC2.
Yeah. If you could land it. See the speed issue makes it nearly impossible unless you do practice for hours while getting mown to death to land that shot. Same with the AT4 or RPG-7.
It lopsided the vehicle balance on the attack chopper very strongly in it's favor on nearly all fronts.
BF3 was going to solve that with the Stinger/Igla (and actually make the "smoke" that BC2 had on those vehicles worthwhile by removing the lock) but agian: It brought another set of issues in regards to map design, the vehicle lock range and speed/etc. up.
I think I've said it before but: DICE can't do air vehicle balance and frankly, IMO (in before Kane debate) the game would be better off without the air vehicles. I get they add a "third dimension" element and a vertical flank ability, but honestly: After so many games with them being a "problem" I don't have faith in DICE ever getting them to the point where they're "annoying but honestly not annoying enough to where they feel 'bad' being included."
SolidSnakeUS
Member
I still think the bigger issue in 3 and 4 is that they still let you repair the helicopter as it's flying. I know flying creates issues with how fast/far the lockon should be of missiles from anti-air weapons, but really, that wouldn't be so much of a problem if the repair system while flying was out the window.
Honestly, I only get annoyed with tandem repairs. If they've got one person repairing you can generally nail them if they're stupid enough to hang around the lock-on range to destroy them faster than they can repair.
But let's go with this: If they remove the in-seat repairs (while removing it from the boat, BTW. Which IMO they kinda should do since the attack boat unless nerfed in damage slightly is crazy good) what would you do in regards to one Stinger/IGLA fucking up a helicopter's day?
SolidSnakeUS
Member
Be good about trying to get away, hide and time your flares correctly. If need be, have an ability that forces a longer lock (maybe a second or two longer) on of the helicopter. Basically, having the in-seat repairs makes handheld anti-air fucking worthless. I think you should be able to get out of the boat and repair it from the water, but not as it's driving at full speed.
What I'm saying is, be a better pilot and you can do some great things. Don't rely on the cheap shit of tandem repairs and whatnot. Be smart, cautious and skillful.
Okay, but (as Kane would interject) a lot of helicopter pilots feel as the vehicle(s) are worthless since as soon as you start to go on a good run the Stingers come out and there is "no where to hide" even if you use your Flares and duck/weave as effectively as you can. What would you do for that?
(And I'm in the boat of "well yeah, you pissed them off enough to get them to lock onto you. Kinda deserved." But I can see where Kane and helicopter pilots come from in that regard)
(And I'm in the boat of "well yeah, you pissed them off enough to get them to lock onto you. Kinda deserved." But I can see where Kane and helicopter pilots come from in that regard)
SolidSnakeUS
Member
If everyone starts bringing out the stingers and anti-air stuff, why should the helicopter survive all of that? Just like, you've gone on a great run with a tank, why should you survive being surrounded by 3 people with RPGs?
What's I'm saying is, if everyone is out to get you, there should be no system in place to make sure you ALWAYS get away from them. If you get surrounded or ganged up on, you should be dead, especially anti-air, troops and tanks firing at you. Maybe even planes.
Kane Zakharov
Banned
Nobody is arguing that helicopters should still be very effective when a lot of people on the enemy team starts to focus on them.
A single soldier on the battlefield aims at you for literally 1 second, and you can be out of the fight for at least 22 seconds.
The mobility hit and countermeasure system works for armored ground vehicles because they are tanky and are much less likely to get mobility hit when positioned well. Not to mention even if the tank is mobility hit, it can still aim properly because the mobility hit simply made it move slower more than anything else. Air vehicles not so much.
When an Engineer who shoots a rocket launcher while being right in front of the enemy tank, you can bet your ass that Engi is gonna get a tank shell to the head. The same can't be said for helicopters, because enemy Stinger users KNOW that the helicopters they shoot at won't be able to do shit once mobility hit. They can just keep standing in the open and keep spamming Stingers and stun-locking helicopters until they crash or get killed. It's pathetically easy to completely shutdown a Helicopter even with a single Engineer. Try using the Attack Helicopter in Caspian Border, they used to absolutely decimate enemy teams in that map in BF3. In BF4 the only way to be remotely successful in maps like Caspian with the Attack Heli is to sit at your spawn and have your gunner take potshots and a few TV missiles here and there at the enemy.*
*Assuming the MAA doesn't decide to shit on your parade with Active Radar missiles from across the map, there's also enemy jets to consider too. OH, and SRAWs if you don't keep moving around.
Even in maps like Shanghai and Dawnbreaker, the advantage of having a plethora of tall buildings in those maps can easily be turned against you once you are mobility hit. Thankfully DICE made sure that's likely to happen by making Stingers and IGLAs have 3.5x the acceleration of the BF3 missiles, and 2.5x the top speed. and have a turning radius so extreme that they can literally make dozens of full circles around your helicopter, and eventually hit you. Being able to repair Scout Helicopters while on the fly was a cheap way to counter cheap Anti-Air missiles. As of today the the repair rate for Scout Helicopters is very slow, it's not problematic at all, especially compared to how it was before the nerfs.
To be clear, I'm not saying Helicopters should wreck teams even when they are heavily focused upon by the enemy. I'm saying that there shouldn't be so many factors working against helicopters in this game, and they shouldn't be so incredibly easy to take out. AA missiles, countermeasures, mobility hit system, and physics in this game all contribute to this.
Ehhhhhh. BTW, if you think Air vehicles are too mobile as of now, I have some bad news for you. :x
Also, 3D spotting (thanks, BC2) only hurts the balance in the game. Who doesn't like shooting at doritos from across the map with Jets and to a much lesser extent Helicopters, where you don't even see the actual model of the enemy you are shooting at. Or following the 3D helicopter icon once the skyscraper in Shanghai is destroyed.
SolidSnakeUS
Member
The only thing I say about it is to remove the repair while seated in the helicopter itself. You can land and repair while outside of it, hide and so on, that's fine. I just think when you have two engies doing full repairs, it's just fucking stupid and broken at that point.
The problem that introduces is that a Stinger user can continue to attempt/guarantee a hit on you when you're on the ground. BF4 (thankfully) doesn't have "below radar" which would prevent this.
BUUUUUUUUUUT: On the opposite side, it also doesn't allow you to land because you're a sitting duck that can still be locked on the ground while repairing. Which is why engineer repairing in the helicopter (which has been there since BC2 BTW) is there. It's to counter those "hits" and keep the helicopter "a tickin'," while "getting lickins'"
I agree more closely with Kane. Overall, I dont think that air vehicles are something that can be correctly balanced/implemented right now with the current system. Its definitely a very difficult part of the game design. You have tools which inherently enable players to rack up kills but you want the average player to be able to deal with that threat. I dont think this is an issue that can be solved in CTE. Only thing I want to see is a more maneuverable and quicker AH just to have it be more fun to fly. I would post my ideas on gameplay system design overhauls and changes that are needed for the next battlefield but dont really see the point but I think one really smart thing DICE can do in the next game is to tie points earned while in air vehicles to a marking system by squad leaders and commanders to create more of a true air support system.
Scout helis I find perfectly fine right now unless you have 2 engis with stingers, than they get silly and annoying.
Just to throw in my dislike for BC2 balance, it had the most boring tank combat of battlefield series ever alongside the worst heli physics possible. Oh yeah, shitty gunplay, tap, tap, tap, tap.
Scout helis I find perfectly fine right now unless you have 2 engis with stingers, than they get silly and annoying.
Just to throw in my dislike for BC2 balance, it had the most boring tank combat of battlefield series ever alongside the worst heli physics possible. Oh yeah, shitty gunplay, tap, tap, tap, tap.
Servbot #42
Unconfirmed Member
In my time with the PS3 version i think i have seen exactly two dudes been any good with attack choppers, people mostly use them as mobile spawn points, that's not surprising to me since the default controls are garbage if you can't handle them (like me). Anyway I loved the Aek 971 in BF3, got over 2000 kills with it but i'm really not feeling it in BF4 the recoil is too large for me too handle. Also i'm seriously considering trying to get this dog tag:
It looks so fucking cool and i only have to obtain 5 melee medals, it can't be that hard!
It looks so fucking cool and i only have to obtain 5 melee medals, it can't be that hard!
fuck it's pretty hard, only got 5 ribbons so far
Tap tap tap tap tap tap was fun though. Don't lie. Especially with those carbine/SMG's from across the map. Lord.
The Faceless Master
Member
stop.
smoking.
crack.
Just played a game on Flood Zone where a scout helicopter racked up well over 10 K
you couldn't solo a 2 man squad with a smart pilot to the vehicle balance is not good?
They should remove all lock on weapons from the game. Bring back some form of the tracer dart. Keep the weaker missiles like the LAW that are semi-homing. Get rid of the ability to repair mid-air. Get rid of auto-repair. No more auto-designating crap like the SOFLAM. Problem fixed.
SolidSnakeUS
Member
Tracer dart from BC2 was amazing.
olimpia84
Member
I think I put over 1000 hours into the game (PS3 version) and only hit a chopper with a dart once. Granted I never spent too much time using darts and instead I kept going for the objectives (which used to be a bitch in open maps like Atacama Desert against good chopper pilots).
Do it anyway. I want to hear your theorycrafting.
Scout helicopters with engineers using their own AA are a lot more annoying to deal with than repairers. Luckily there are ways to deal with that.
rakkadakka
Member
I think we could all agree that BF4 is a prime example of diversity in player choice making it hard as hell to balance the game.
Then lets bring back WW2 for Battlefield, right guys? Guys?
Then lets bring back WW2 for Battlefield, right guys? Guys?
JonahHillNo.gif
I'll admit, I'm one of the jerks that does that (AA in the helicopter) but it's so hilarious to me to see them pop-flares and my helicopter pilot chases them as I nail them with another Stinger to death.
(I don't do this often, only when I get pissed off at some scout helicopters)
Chaplain
Member
I asked because it seems the F2000 isn't as good as it was before. I know DICE added 1 extra bullet to take out a guy, but this design decision has changed fire fights for me and I die more often now than I ever did before.
Ty for your suggestions.
One of the advantages of running with the cannon is killing passengers on scouts. One of the only advantages, really.
The Faceless Master
Member
i hit lots of choppers with darts, but then they used smoke.
on attack choppers, most of us would just use a carl instead of trying for a tracer.
AnotherNils
Member
Been trying to up my knifing game and I have to say the amount of people who run the tag collector tag is ridiculous. If you get knifed while wearing that it should count as two deaths or twice as many points because god damn that is by far the most common dog tag. Ridiculous.
Same thing you're X (or whatever on PS4 now) does: Switches seats.
BUT: With greater accuracy. I can skip between left-right-passenger 1-3 instantly. *smug*
Daffy Duck
Member
Have they ruined sniping with this latest update?
I'm not amazing at it but I could get by, but now I get the distance spot on move to 300 yards say if the flag and zoom in on a target at the right range but the bullet seems to go right through them.
I'm not amazing at it but I could get by, but now I get the distance spot on move to 300 yards say if the flag and zoom in on a target at the right range but the bullet seems to go right through them.
Muzzle velocity was increased for almost all rifles so it's gonna take time to adapt.
They ruined my GOL Magnum so I went back to the SRR61. I didn't really notice much difference, probably because I haven't used the SRR61 in quite a while.
Daffy Duck
Member
So I need to do what now to account for muzzle velocity?
It was with the standard sniper rifle you start with.
It was with the standard sniper rifle you start with.
AnotherNils
Member
Thanks for reminding me. Seems a lot of lips that were previously fine now have to be jumped over. *sigh*
yiepekaiyei
Banned
this right here. I lost count of times i died trying to run away from line of fire only to be stuck trying to get through a door wide open. WTF!
Seemed to have been introduced with the Final Stand pre-Alpha. Had to do that in the Final Stand maps. :/
chillumchilla
Member
I was thinking of picking this up for the PS3 soon.
After all the patches, I would assume the multiplayer game is pretty damn hot now?
Or is a case of 'flogging a dead horse'?
I have a MP FPS hole in my life at the moment and thought this game might do the trick?
After all the patches, I would assume the multiplayer game is pretty damn hot now?
Or is a case of 'flogging a dead horse'?
I have a MP FPS hole in my life at the moment and thought this game might do the trick?
Facism
Member
I was PC so it was probably easier to land them because of the controls.
questionmark
Member
Let me just preface this by saying that I played BC2 and BF3/4 on PC. I think I can vaguely remember people complaining about helicopters in BC2 on consoles.
If helicopters were an issue for you in BC2 on PC, you simply weren't good enough.
Yes. This is a skill based shooter, not math. Simply saying 2 > 1 isn't good enough.