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[StreetsofBeige]

Welcome to modern gaming discussion. Days Gone itself literally took over 7 years to make on a generation where developers were making AAA games at half the development time.

Yup.

Those 360/PS3 days were insane. So many good franchises had sequels in 2 or 3 years too. That gen had new architecture, 720P HD gaming was a big console thing, online gaming became standard on consoles where practically every game had online modes, devs had to spend some time doing achievement pts/trophies, mtx was a new thing just getting underway (skins, map packs, season passes), etc....

And they were able to figure all that out that gen with great games, modest budgets and timing.

 

[Sardaukarama]

"THE PROFESSOR" in herhistheythemthisthat secret lair strikes again

 

[Z O N E]

Publishers: Games are getting more expensive to make, we need to increase prices.

Also Publishers: Let's not check what OUR studios are doing and just pay them for barely any work at all and then later complain that we lost a lot of money on a cancelled game that made barely any progress because us Exec's didn't bother doing regular checkups.

 

[Victorboris1987]

Welcome to modern gaming discussion. Days Gone itself literally took over 7 years to make on a generation where developers were making AAA games at half the development time.

7 fucking years? Bend studios is cooked if they don't get their shit sorted out. A AAA game in today's era shouldn't take more than 3 yrs to get made, unless you're building a new engine from scratch or heavily modifying an existing one.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

7 fucking years? Bend studios is cooked if they don't get their shit sorted out. A AAA game in today's era shouldn't take more than 3 yrs to get made, unless you're building a new engine from scratch or heavily modifying an existing one.

It's human nature.

Anytime a project gets big budgets, big manpower, and a long due date, you can always count on the people to take their time. Then when it's time to finish up they scramble.

No different than kids in school. One teacher gives kids 2 weeks to finish an essay or prep for a test. Another teacher gives a full month lead time. Doesnt matter. I guarantee you'll still get shit loads of kids cramming it all the night before. The chances of any of them finishing studying or completing their essay with a week to spare is going to be almost 0%. To be fair they are kids. So expectations are they still care about having fun, hanging with friends and there's no job on the line (like below). Cant expect miracle work ethic from 15 year olds. I did the same most of the time. But got good marks.

But I see this at work all the time. All the big scheduled monthly or quarterly meetings I got to sit through are in people's calendars. Month's worth of predictable meetings. And you always get some people you know (or can tell), they scrambled doing the PPT the night before. Or if they know their presentation isn't until after lunch, they are still finishing it that morning and they are nervous hoping their PPT is complete (and often times its not). I'm good with numbers and charts so I can eyeball mistakes and notice wrongly calculated numbers, and see sloppy work right on screen. Grown ass adults. Crazy.

 

[phant0m]

Looks to me like a management failure. But managers won't be affected, regardless of what happens.

Reeks of mismanagement, design-by-committee, and lack of distinct vision. Poor leadership all around and it's a plague on this industry.

Yup.

Those 360/PS3 days were insane. So many good franchises had sequels in 2 or 3 years too. That gen had new architecture, 720P HD gaming was a big console thing, online gaming became standard on consoles where practically every game had online modes, devs had to spend some time doing achievement pts/trophies, mtx was a new thing just getting underway (skins, map packs, season passes), etc....

And they were able to figure all that out that gen with great games, modest budgets and timing.

And now we have AI generation, RT so you don't need to do baked lighting, and a jillion other tools that make dev work easier. And shit takes longer than ever - see my comment above.

 

[Moriarty1889]

They couldn't decide the gender of the protagonist

Sounds funny but propably was one of the factors in them wasting time. They were most likely so worried about how 'modern audiences' would react to the game if it didn't check all the boxes needed to appease them.

 

[semiconscious]

rudderless is the word that comes to mind. tho i enjoyed it for the most part, days gone might've been too overly-ambitious for bend's own good...

 

[DeepEnigma]

This is what you get with forcing out actual hard working talent for ideological aligned slacktivist losers.

 

[Dr. Samuel Hayden]

"No progress in 3 years"

Excellent management from Hermen

 

[adamsapple]

"No progress in 3 years"

Excellent management from Hermen

To me, it feels more like an issue of the developer being asked to make a game they had no expertise/history of and (probably?) not staffing them up accordingly.

 

[Fake]

Skip an entire generation...

 

[semiconscious]

Skip an entire generation...

'everything was media molecule!'...

 

[StreetsofBeige]

'everything was media molecule!'...

9 lives dev.

According to wiki, since a Tearaway game in 2015 they've released one game Dreams in 2020. And who knows when their next game will be. Probably a PS6 game.

 

[Gamerguy84]

They have a couple but its not their strong suit.

 

[P:axMagellanic]

Still don't get it how it is even imaginable to work on something for 3 year without a clear vision of how the fu*k the game should play like... Modern game development seems totally out of touch with reality and good business practices

They lost talent and Sony fucked up a sequel on good footing. I'm not surprised they didn't have a clue what they were building next.

 

[supersale88]

The development years wasted on the live service push by SIE is surely into the double digits by now. Sony's lost generation.

I hate to say it but this is the best case scenario. If the gaas were successful, there would be a whole lot more of them.

 

[Aressa]

I can't understand these kind of work conditions/goals. I understand that some things take time, but specially being a physician, I can't understand how you keep working and deliver nothing and that's "fine" for some time?

Not nothing but very little progress. The kind of stuff they stretch for progress update meetings saying things like "GaaS is big and ambitious" and all that usual corporate nonsense.

 

[Aressa]

Skip an entire generation...

And wouldn't be the first Sony studio to do that.

 

[Physiognomonics]

What's tragic is that Days gone was highly profitable for Sony (we know that from leaks as obviously they would have never admitted that).

So they refused a sequel to the first game and forced them to waste their talent into GAAS deadend when they had no experience into that.

But the problem is that is was profitable in the long term but Sony is only interested into short term profits.

As of right now the management of Playstation and their IPs is worse than anything at Activision, EA, Ubisoft or Microsoft.

 

[Famipan]

Imagine if they spent those 3 years just researching the case of Days Gone and why it went from bomb to immense success…

 

[Felessan]

So they refused a sequel to the first game and forced them to waste their talent into GAAS deadend when they had no experience into that.

It's all lies though
Sequel was not refused, it was not pitched. And as far as known Sony didn't force studios for GaaS - they choose this opportunity themselves.

Lot of people live in delusional bubble, but it's quite obvious that a lot of people and studios will grab a chance to do live service games (get experience/knowledge) if presented opportunity, especially if promised some lenience toward failures.
Live service games are hot topic that gaining popularity, market share and money - they are great career opportunity and many are not as principal about doing SP games only

 

[Hypereides]

It's all lies though
Sequel was not refused, it was not pitched. And as far as known Sony didn't force studios for GaaS - they choose this opportunity themselves.

Lot of people live in delusional bubble, but it's quite obvious that a lot of people and studios will grab a chance to do live service games (get experience/knowledge) if presented opportunity, especially if promised some lenience toward failures.
Live service games are hot topic that gaining popularity, market share and money - they are great career opportunity and many are not as principal about doing SP games only

VA from the original game, moneybags:

Are you implying he's lying?

 

[xrnzaaas]

Theres something fishy about a lack of progress during whole 3 years.
I think this could be all intentional on their part by not wanting to be forced to follow that route.

That would be very risky unless you're a Microsoft-owned studio and they have no idea what you're doing and not controlling you in any way.

I think it's just they kept trying and kept failing to make something good, probably partially due to having no experience with the gaas productions. Same thing happened to other SP studios, like I'm pretty sure Naughty Dog wasted at least 2 years working on Factions as a separate game.

 

[Fake]

VA from the original game, moneybags:

Are you implying he's lying?

Also the two directors of DG told the sequel was indeed in development before got cancelled by Sony.

 

[Felessan]

VA from the original game, moneybags:

Are you implying he's lying?

Who are "they"?
We kinda know that DG2 was prototyped.
But per Days Gone creative director it was studio (management) decision to cancel it

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

9 lives dev.

According to wiki, since a Tearaway game in 2015 they've released one game Dreams in 2020. And who knows when their next game will be. Probably a PS6 game.

A single game studio only released 2 games in the last 10 years?

 

[Fake]

Who are "they"?
We kinda know that DG2 was prototyped.
But per Days Gone creative director it was studio (management) decision to cancel it

The director/writer of DG did an interview with davidjaffe years ago saying they are indeed making a sequel after he leave Bend Studios.

 

[Physiognomonics]

It's all lies though
Sequel was not refused, it was not pitched. And as far as known Sony didn't force studios for GaaS - they choose this opportunity themselves.

Lot of people live in delusional bubble, but it's quite obvious that a lot of people and studios will grab a chance to do live service games (get experience/knowledge) if presented opportunity, especially if promised some lenience toward failures.
Live service games are hot topic that gaining popularity, market share and money - they are great career opportunity and many are not as principal about doing SP games only

So the game was killed by the woke mind virus that made those reviewers gave the game 71 metacritic and persuaded the management (Reese) to reject Days Gone 2. head of studio is still at Bend and making the same bad decisions.

But it was absolute ideological absurd decision as the game was highly profitable (cost $70-100 million and made about $400 million).

 

[Felessan]

So the game was killed by the woke mind virus that made those reviewers gave the game 71 metacritic and persuaded the management (Reese) to reject Days Gone 2. head of studio is still at Bend and making the same bad decisions.

But it was absolute ideological absurd decision as the game was highly profitable (cost $70-100 million and made about $400 million).

I doubt it was about woke or anything
X post above mentioned that game had weak initial success (and creative director had anger issues over it). And seems by the time DG2 prototype was made and ready to be pitched, DG was still in feeble state commercially wise, so management, being unsure (a weak sequel for a weak game might lead to studio closure), decided to play safe and didn't gave a green light to sequel. Eventually DG catch up and became highly successful, but it was kinda late for DG2 as studio moved on next project.

 

[Instant_Classic]

There's been a strong loss over talent over the past decade.

Many of the true geniuses, retired or no longer work in the game industry.

 

[Instant_Classic]

Now go make Days Gone 2 and have it ready in PS6's first year.

Days Gone 1 took 8 years to develop...

 

[Fake]

davidjaffe the video in question is unlisted somehow?

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

decided to play safe

Playing safe would be greenlighting a sequel of a game that sold 9M. That's the only logic comercial decision for Sony and the studio, to follow up on a game that already has its foundations and a solid fanbase.

The only reason that explains the EPIC IDIOCY of canceling a Days Gone 2 is the woke influence at SIE and some media. Deacon triggered a lot of little men who projected their personal frustrations on to a fictional character.


Days Gone 2 is no longer an option because that people left the studio. Instead, they have a lot of hacks who can't do shit. Well, no tears will be shed when they are all fired.

 

[Hypereides]

Who are "they"?
(...)

First point, did you even read the text within the image?

I doubt it was about woke or anything
(...)

Second, did you read the "gaming media" (read: activistic) response/reception to the game? Some of the common complaints/issues by these people were that the character had the audacity to act like he had an intimate relationship with his SO.

Someone post the collage of supposed "gaming journalists" going nuts about scenes from the game.

EDIT: nevermind, found it:

 

[Felessan]

Playing safe would be greenlighting a sequel of a game that sold 9M. That's the only logic comercial decision for Sony and the studio, to follow up on a game that already has its foundations and a solid fanbase.

It didn't sold 9M till DG2. By the time things start to fall off it at most sold ~5M.

First point, did you even read the text within the image?

Yes and it's blaming "them".
Who are this "them" - I know some people readily assume that it's "Evil Sony", even though we got some information that it might not be a case

Second, did you read the "journalistic" (read: activistic) reaction/reception to the game? Some of the common complaints/issues by these people were that the character had the audacity to act like he had an intimate relationship with his SO.

Someone post the collage of supposed "gaming journalists" going nuts about scenes from the game.

This stuff kinda overrated
Wukong is 82 and Stellar blade is 81 even though left wing journalism was more influential at their release and both got ridiculed for being normal games. There are too many scores going to rating from across the globe and 70% of the globe do not care about this DEI stuff. Score can be influenced somewhat but can't be set.
DG had some serious issues so it got it score lowered, it's in no way a perfect game.
And having low scores (one of game KPI) and low initial sales (another game KPI) it's understandable that studio management was cautious about sequel

 

[RyRy93]

"we didn't make enough substantial progress over the 3 years" ≠ No progress

Most people in this thread didn't even bother to read the first line of the tweet.

 

[Hypereides]

(...)

Yes and it's blaming "them".
Who are this "them" - I know some people readily assume that it's "Evil Sony", even though we got some information that it might not be a case

Whichever party it is - you understand the implication here.

This stuff kinda overrated
Wukong is 82 and Stellar blade is 81 even though left wing journalism was more influential at their release and both got ridiculed for being normal games. There are too many scores going to rating from across the globe and 70% of the globe do not care about this DEI stuff. Score can be influenced somewhat but can't be set.
DG had some serious issues so it got it score lowered, it's in no way a perfect game.
And having low scores (one of game KPI) and low initial sales (another game KPI) it's understandable that studio management was cautious about sequel

BS. These aren't the first cases of such public raking - or "humiliation" if someone might interpret it that way - by the gaming media for games containing themes and ideas they "didn't approve off", which directly influenced poor scores averages, thus dissuading potential costumers. They have a strongly documented history of such antics through out the past decade, if not more.

Wukong also had the unique advantage of being, first and foremost, aimed and tailored towards the Chinese audience, which by itself is significantly bigger than, e.g., the U.S. . Stellar Blade was similar, also aimed at the east, primarily.

Both arrived at a time where the gaming community, at large, were reaching an apex of politization in games, and entertainment overall, culminating in people getting fed up.

Days gone had issues, I'll give you that, but those were applied as a fitting scapegoat, turned into mountains out of molehills, in combination with the other "issues" to favour the perceptions reviewers had with the game.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Days Gone had the additional problem of TLOU being the Sony darling. The comparisons didn't do it any favor. The game was downplayed long before its release, it was doomed according to most. So, for the media was very easy to dunk on it. The media are coward bullies, they don't dare do that to well established franchises with a great fanbase.

Against the odds, DG had a great word of mouth, which was impossible on release. A sequel would have made more people buy the previous one.

 

[Felessan]

Whichever party it is - you understand the implication here.

It's not that unusual when a lot of work done only to be discarded later.
And it's often done internally, when you start project off a good looking idea and when you go into details you found out that despite looking good on outside, insides will never work out.
It's a part of dealing with projects. Yes, it's frustrating for people involved, but there is no remedy for this, projects are exploration and exploration doesn't always bring good stuff, sometimes it bring bad stuff you have to deal/cope with.