The ones who try to co-opt the movement, certainly.undesirables as in what? People who support their cause but aren't black?
The ones who try to co-opt the movement, certainly.undesirables as in what? People who support their cause but aren't black?
It's like discussing music and saying X isn't doing well. You should be able to say at least one person who is doing well so we can understand the requirements.Whoever someone feels best represents their views on matters important to them.
I understand and agree with the idea that a white person shouldn't lead a march about black lives, but saying "You can't do X, can't do Y and it would be best if you're out of site as much as possible" is pretty hysterical to me.
I mean, just having a sign with, "Rules for whites", is pretty out there.
I've never seen someone so active in political discussion refuse to state who they support. You're beginning to come off as insincere in your arguments when they've all been addressed and you can't talk about supporting either the guy, or explaining who has done more than him to earn your support.
That varies from person to person though. It's a subjective assessment of a person's performance and I can't say why one person prefers one person running for a nomination more than another.It's like discussing music and saying X isn't doing well. You should be able to say at least one person who is doing well so we can understand the requirements.
What has any other candidate done to earn your vote?
We are literally asking why pull the stunt.
To be fair, I'm also sick of seeing other Bernie supporters do exactly what BLM protestors say they don't need to hear: Bring up Bernie's march on Civil Rights and use it as an argument to rest on his laurels. Thatmarch should only be brought up to prove sincerity in his current stance, not as an excuse to lack a modern, cohesive plan. With more than candidate presenting a plan, Bernie's record on Civil Rights should only used as the "tie breaker," proving he was always part of the solution and not the problem.I think at this point we can call it like it is: This isn't actually about Sanders for most people in this thread; It's about hyper sensitivity to criticism and subsequently defending BLM, regardless of how self defeating, misdirected and fucking stupid their protests are becoming. The goal posts on what Sanders should do has moved a hundred miles an hour.
There is no more reasonable discussion going on in this thread than what was had at the rally interruption.
And that's fine. All it does is open the dialogue to where people know where you're coming from. It helps us understand and better engage.That varies from person to person though. It's a subjective assessment of a person's performance and I can't say why one person prefers one person running for a nomination more than another.
Ugh, for fucks sake so far I support Hillary Goddamn Clinton but who knows what'll happen between now and next November. But who I support has nothing to do with this because if the same thing happened to Hillary, and she responded the same way Bernie is, I'd say she's also being an idiot.
Last I checked, this thread was about #BlackLivesMatter, Bernie Sanders, BLM interrupting his rallies, and how he's responded to that. But now it's going to devvolve into a dozen fucking questions about why I support Hillary Clinton, which is completely off topic.
I mean, look at it the other way round: whoever wrote that sign was probably pretty aware that those rules would look pretty drastic, they must have done it for good reason: presumably because people doing what those rules say not to had been a problem in the past. And that's an indictment of the white community, not the black one.
I think there are a lot of white people who take up pet causes and remake them in their own vision as a form of validation. And I certainly understand how anyone involved in the BLM movement would be appalled by a white person co-opting the cause and trying to appropriate a voice that isn't theirs. But the flip side of this is that the rules are so inherently divisive that it's damaging to the cause.
There's a possibility he hasn't made up his mind yet.
What exactly does this even mean, who is he supposed to bow down before? It's not like the guy has been disrespectful.#BowDownBurnie
Well that went the way I expected it to. On the plus side I did learn the rules for whites, so that's something.
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shit, I can't do hands up?
I guess I'll just stand in the back of the march.
The problem is that Hillary and Bernie are running against each other so criticizing one and not the other clearly has an unfair effect.Ugh, for fucks sake so far I support Hillary Goddamn Clinton but who knows what'll happen between now and next November. But who I support has nothing to do with this because if the same thing happened to Hillary, and she responded the same way Bernie is, I'd say she's also being an idiot.
Last I checked, this thread was about #BlackLivesMatter, Bernie Sanders, BLM interrupting his rallies, and how he's responded to that. But now it's going to devvolve into a dozen fucking questions about why I support Hillary Clinton, which is completely off topic.
So what do they do? If they don't have them there, they get overruled by pushy white liberals. If they do put them there, they alienate frail white liberals. It seems like a lose/lose for the black community to me, created by the fact that white liberals can't go "well, I feel a bit hurt by the rules but I understand why they're needed" and move on.
I dunno. Some sort of compromise, I guess? I can understand asking white people to not lead cheers at a black rally, but I don't think it's a terrible idea to allow non-blacks to do the hands up and I can't breathe as a gesture of solidarity.
Criticize away, but if your criticisms are ignoring verifiable fact, it will be pointed out.No, that's not good enough. Who are you voting for if Sanders isn't good enough? If you people dare to complain about Sanders in any way, then really you are just damaging your own cause. If you aren't kissing our great lord and saviour Bernie's feet, then you're basically making black lives worse. Everyone knows that you can't criticize presidential candidates for anything, apart from Hilary of course.
That being said, yes it seems that no matter what Bernie does, he doesn't get the support.
"Have a current plan moving forward!"
"He has one."
"Have a non-economic plan moving forward!"
Done.
"Be vocal about having a non-economic plan moving forward!"
Okay, no problem.
"Be vocal about having a non-economic plan moving forward and put all your ideas together so it's one big cohesive message!"
Yep, here you go.
"Still not voting for him!"
There was one posted on this thread on this page or the last page where he talks about some issues and then ends it on a talk about his plans on fixing race problems.Can you provide videos/speeches and links too all of those current "Bernie haves topics. Not sure if I've seen them but I'd like to.
The problem is that Hillary and Bernie are running against each other so criticizing one and not the other clearly has an unfair effect.
Most of the rules are ok I just don't get the stay in the back and to the sides. Why try to separate where people are in protests ;doesn't it look better if their a large mix of people of all races mingled together in a protest to show this is a cause everybody should strive for.
Maybe, but the inverse of that implies that black people only get listened to if white people are there too. The whole point is about making black lives matter just as much as white ones; for the movement to really succeed it needs to succeed as a black movement because that will truly mean black voices are valued in and of themselves. It might take longer that way, but it is a valid decision.
You're not following me.
Understand: I can't criticize Hillary because this has not happened to her (yet). Now, when she gets bum-rushed on the stage and handles it poorly, come seek me out and I'll give you my opinion. But until then, Hillary has nothing to do with my opinion here.
See the problem in this thread is that posters are trying to turn it into yet another general thread about the candidates, when really it's about something very specific: Bernie Sanders, and his rallies being interrupted by BLM. That's it.
Criticize away, but if your criticisms are ignoring verifiable fact, it will be pointed out.
Political threads about current candidates are always in context of the bigger picture concerning the presidential race. What are your thoughts on Hillary being a huge proponent of the "tough on crime" policies that led to the things the BLM movement is protesting?You're not following me.
Understand: I can't criticize Hillary because this has not happened to her (yet). Now, when she gets bum-rushed on the stage and handles it poorly, come seek me out and I'll give you my opinion. But until then, Hillary has nothing to do with my opinion here.
See the problem in this thread is that posters are trying to turn it into yet another general thread about the candidates, when really it's about something very specific: Bernie Sanders, and his rallies being interrupted by BLM. That's it.
You're not following me.
Understand: I can't criticize Hillary because this has not happened to her (yet). Now, when she gets bum-rushed on the stage and handles it poorly, come seek me out and I'll give you my opinion. But until then, Hillary has nothing to do with my opinion here.
See the problem in this thread is that posters are trying to turn it into yet another general thread about the candidates, when really it's about something very specific: Bernie Sanders, and his rallies being interrupted by BLM. That's it.
What exactly does this even mean, who is he supposed to bow down before? It's not like the guy has been disrespectful.
His biggest offense seems to be that he was not clear enough about how he wants to fight racism. (And apparently that info can be found nowadays)
Seems like your interpretation of it, not actual fact. He left the stage after his time expired because he had another event to attend to, which 15,000 people were waiting at.It's certainly true that if two black protesters in Seattle is enough to make you run away with your tail between your legs. Then maybe being a left-wing president, where all your policies will be met with drowning opposition, isn't for you. It's also true that this incident has driven certain Bernie stans into tin-foil hat wearing tantrums, trying to pin this to some sort of Pro-Hilary conspiracy, and going on some 'black people are screwing themselves' BS that wouldn't look out of place during FOX News' coverage of Baltimore.
That's fair, but this is very unlikely to happen to Hillary because she keeps quite tight security at her events and avoids grassroots associations altogether. Bernie can't do the former and won't do the latter, so he's always going to be more prone to protests of this nature than Hillary is, so he'll always get more criticism. What would you think if Bernie tried to get better security and stopped attending grassroots events too?
EDIT: Sorry if I made that slightly too comparative. You can ignore the first two sentences, and just focus on the last.
I really don't think it is outside of Bernie's ability to beef up his security. All he would need are 4 to 5 goon looking dudes posted around his stage to keep this from happening.
Okay. What happens when the next set of photos to make the media is Bernie's security bundling black protestors off stage? I'm probably missing something here, but I genuinely don't understand why that makes him look good.
I personally don't think it would make him look as bad as he does now. A politician on a stage in front of a huge crowd can argue the need for security. Not so much how weak he comes off in the face of these protesters.
I personally don't think it would make him look as bad as he does now. A politician on a stage in front of a huge crowd can argue the need for security. Not so much how weak he comes off in the face of these protesters.
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shit, I can't do hands up?
I guess I'll just stand in the back of the march.
I personally don't think it would make him look as bad as he does now. A politician on a stage in front of a huge crowd can argue the need for security. Not so much how weak he comes off in the face of these protesters.
How did he come across weak in the face of these protesters? What is there to be proven by being strong?
I personally support disruption of Bernie's speeches because I support the disruption of all speeches by all candidates in both parties. I think BLM (and a whole host of other causes) take precedence over the stump speeches of would-be oligarchs. U.S. electoral politics are a farce. Activists busting in and chanting is actually the only substantive political discussion happening at these rallies. I personally wouldn't vote for any of these people, but I do like using their platform to help get an important message out.
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If he can't take on these people how's he gonna face up to Putin when he grabs his microphone!
If he can't shut up and strong arm black activists now, how can we as a country ever really make progress on racial equality?How did he come across weak in the face of these protesters? What is there to be proven by being strong?
I'd simplify it to this: campaigning on openness is a loser's game in the US. You guys lack the tradition of non-plastic non-corporate candidates upsetting the balance.
I dont even know where to start with what you don't understand.I personally support disruption of Bernie's speeches because I support the disruption of all speeches by all candidates in both parties. I think BLM (and a whole host of other causes) take precedence over the stump speeches of would-be oligarchs. U.S. electoral politics are a farce. Activists busting in and chanting is actually the only substantive political discussion happening at these rallies. I personally wouldn't vote for any of these people, but I do like using their platform to help get an important message out.
Because activist movements are more important* than electoral politics.
*By that I mean that they have any importance at all.
Bernie Sanders- an oligarch.
Attitudes like this are Gamergate-esque radical hatred.
As for beefing up security- it would have been a really bad look at Bernie's guys cracked heads.
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shit, I can't do hands up?
I guess I'll just stand in the back of the march.
i knew gamergate was behind this