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Bloated, PR paste-bin |OT|s are a plague on these boards

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S

Sickboy007

Member
I really don't get what's the problem, if you just want to see release dates/review scores you can skip to them with honestly zero effort.
Big OPs are obviously a fan effort and cater principally to the fanbase, i see nothing wrong with it. The viral marketer accusations are laughable.
 
D

Dash Kappei

Not actually that important
Wish I had seen this thread five minutes ago.
This is what I posted in the AC:R thread:

These professional OTs are seriously getting out of control, IMO.

The only one I liked was the majestic MGS4 one because of the amazing layout art and because it fitted with the series (eheh) imo, and even that one was 15 posts too long.

Who's gonna read or even need that much crap, I feel dirty just looking at it, it reads like what Ubisoft would feed me on the game, not something out of a fellow gamer. I can appreciate the work the OP has put into it of course, but for me it just helps giving birth to fanboy-masturbating only threads where every kinda negative opinion gets dogpiled by the mob.

No game will ever need anything more than a two posts OP and even one is more than fine in 99% of the cases.

Nice banner, pricing/release/platform details.
Mechanics
Recap on the series
Best videos/interesting screens/tidbits
Unlockables/preorder bonuses.
DLC
reviews and interesting snippets from GAFfer's impressions with the game

Gamertags/psn/steam IDs it is an online multiplayer game.
Little wiki if it's something like Demon's Souls.

That covers everything.
 
ElRenoRaven

ElRenoRaven

Member
ghst said:
incase you hadn't noticed, the assassin's creed revelations OT went up today:
not safe for those prone to carpal tunnel in their mousewheel finger

look at that monstrosity. i thought OTs were supposed to be things of utility, with the original post serving as a concise primer, laying out all the useful and essential information for anyone with a wayward moment to click on them; not masturbatory odes to the greatness of every last mitigating detail of a game.

when i click on an OT i'll want to find release/pricing details, a spattering of reviews and footage, and perhaps a tastefully concise blurb or bullet list highlighting some of the major innovations/selling points of the title. what i don't want is some catch all media dump which reads like the OP found a folder some PR rep left on a train and decided to type it all up verbatim, leaving any useful information marooned in a sea of extended universe fluff.

moreover, this kind of yawning fanboy rubbing material only serves to set up a sycophantic worship tone for the rest of the thread, stifling rational debate. how dare anyone criticize a king in his own palace?

here's how it should be done, courtesy of stump. level headed, concise and actually useful:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=351801
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=449987

i did also enjoy the couple of times that OTs have been granted "roast" privileges, neutralizing the usual worshipful narrative of most OTs. but with fanthing tensions as taut as they are, i foresee many faded usernames should that ever become the standard.
Click to expand...

Good god. While I don't mind how most are done I do have to say that the one you linked is indeed such overkill it isn't funny.
 
XeroSauce

XeroSauce

Member
That OP probably spent a good chunk of his time making everyone beautiful and lined up. It's takes a lot of work to make a good looking OT.

If you need something like like a god damn release date, go Wiki it, it'll be the first link in Google.

OTs are made to be the embodiment of the entire series and given that there have been multiple OTs before this with the same type of 8-page information overload, I don't see a problem. I think it looks fantastic.
 
R

renitou

Member
These complaints have existed for a long while. Your only real recourse is to wait for Evilore to get a bee in his bonnet about Official Threads in the same ways he did about the need to call them "|OT|"s, the need to remove emoticons and animated avatars, and any other niggling annoyances. That's how change occurs on this site, for better or worse.
 
L

Ledsen

Member
Sickboy007 said:
I really don't get what's the problem, if you just want to see release dates/review scores you can skip to them with honestly zero effort.
Big OPs are obviously a fan effort and cater principally to the fanbase, i see nothing wrong with it. The viral marketer accusations are laughable.
Click to expand...

I agree, no viral marketer would ever be as obvious and obnoxious as some of these OT:s.
 
P

plagiarize

Banned
i didn't buy MGS4, or even play it, but i thought that MGS4 OP was wonderful. given that OTs are generally posted a week before release and that they reach page 2 pretty quickly, for people that don't like an OP that puts together just about everything you might want to know in one place, i don't see it as a plague.

if you don't like them, i don't see how your exposure to them could be anything less than minimal. seems like one of those minor things to rage about, like the Spotlight section on the 360. press up, or set the 360 to boot right to the game.

don't click on page 1 of an official thread.
 
B

butts

Member
It doesn't help that the first 5 pages are full of "OMG AMAZING OT BRO CAN I GO DOWN ON YOU" which makes them feel like appeals for compliments.

And the text in images...UGH
 
S

SillyEskimo

Member
The AC OT convinced me to buy the game. I was on the fence but it pushed me over!

I believe that the opulant OTs, like it or not, help to further seperate NeoGaf from the other video game forums out there. It is part of the collective identity IMO.

Don't like em? Don't read em!
 
N

Nezabyte

Neo Member
Just have OTs and FATs. Official Threads for concise, informative info and Fan Threads where people can bloat it up and use as much creative juice as they want.
 
B

BiggNife

Member
I think all of these "If you don't like it just ignore it" arguments are kind of missing the point

People check OPs to get general information on a game and to get a sense of what the game is. That is the whole point of an OP. If someone checks the OP to get a quick synopsis of the game but then has to wade through a swamp of useless details to get to the point, then the OP isn't very effective.

Game OPs are supposed to be as accessible as humanly possible. The problem with the AC OP is that fans of the game will go nuts over it but people who are just checking the OP to see if they'd be interested in trying an AC game are likely to get extremely overwhelmed.

If someone wants more information on a game but would rather ignore the OP and get the information somewhere else because of how garish it is, then there is a problem!
 
Sp3eD

Sp3eD

0G M3mbeR
The information about the game isn't the problem, the problem is all the art books, movies, and soundtracks.

Do we really need paragraphs about that kind of stuff? Most of them you can't even buy in retail anymore....
 
H

Hellsing321

Member
XeroSauce said:
That OP probably spent a good chunk of his time making everyone beautiful and lined up. It's takes a lot of work to make a good looking OT.

If you need something like like a god damn release date, go Wiki it, it'll be the first link in Google.

OTs are made to be the embodiment of the entire series and given that there have been multiple OTs before this with the same type of 8-page information overload, I don't see a problem. I think it looks fantastic.
Click to expand...
With this mentality why don't |OT|s just link to the wikipedia article and be done with it. All that information about the series is already on Wikipedia. Hell some series have they own wiki dedicated to them. |OT|s aren't just for fans of the series but for everyone who browses gaf that might have a passing interest in the game in question. Information should be easy to find and concise.
 
W

Wallach

Member
OTs should be restricted to the first post. Also really dislike the trend of using giant images rather than just small banners/headers with normal text.
 
S

Snuggles

erotic butter maelstrom
I don't really have any issue with people going all out, but the problem is overkill. It takes about one page full of bloated photoshop creations before I end up losing interest and scrolling past the rest. I appreciate the enthusiasm and effort put into those threads, but the spectacle sometimes gets in the way of the information. And with an attention span like mine, I'm not scrolling through dozens of posts just to find one piece of info.

I hate to be another guy pimping his dumb thread, but I kept all of this in mind when making the Rayman thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=32483803&postcount=1. I like making gif's and png's, and so crafting a fancy thread is pretty damn fun, but I did my best to keep it simple. Information should be limited to what is essential and important for buyers to be aware of, there is no need to list everything about the game. Information should be mostly contained in text, and not photoshop creations. Not only does it make your thread easier to read, but it'll still be there after your image host goes down! A little flair doesn't hurt, but keep that shit concise, son.
 
F

flyinpiranha

Member
I get a ton of information out of them. I love having all the information compiled into an OT whether it is information you are personally looking for is irrelevant.

I don't think there should be a limit on anything, it's FAN - BASED, if you don't like it, don't click on it and quit whining.

A "Show Spoilers" functionality on the forums would solve it though. I'd like to see that added just to stop crybabies from crying.
 
Peterthumpa

Peterthumpa

Member
Though I kinda agree that maybe they're too heavy (even by today's web and PC standards), they're quickly becoming something really GAF-esque. GAF is known by their awesome members, their insight into the gaming community and industry in general, and because of that, we're very respectable (and often quoted
HI KOTAKU
) by the gaming press.

OTs here are way past just "more information", they became a work of art and a symbol of how the NeoGAF community is different than anything else out there.

Keep'm coming.
 
C

Cosmo Clock 21

Banned
SillyEskimo said:
The AC OT convinced me to buy the game. I was on the fence but it pushed me over!

I believe that the opulant OTs, like it or not, help to further seperate NeoGaf from the other video game forums out there. It is part of the collective identity IMO.

Don't like em? Don't read em!
Click to expand...
They serve to make NeoGAF more like other videogame forums -- full of low quality self-serving fanboy bullshit posters. Sales-ages are pretty much the only threads where you can get good quality discussion nowadays... when console warriors aren't shitting them up complaining about MH3G, anyways.
 
A

Air Zombie Meat

Member
Also seems a bit harsh singling out one thread. It may be bigger than usual but it's content isn't much different from the usual [OT].

butts said:
It doesn't help that the first 5 pages are full of "OMG AMAZING OT BRO CAN I GO DOWN ON YOU" which makes them feel like appeals for compliments.

And the text in images...UGH
Click to expand...

Right but looking at the ac one it's now evolved into five pages of arguing about whether it's a good op or not.
 
P

plagiarize

Banned
BiggNife said:
I think all of these "If you don't like it just ignore it" arguments are kind of missing the point

People check OPs to get general information on a game and to get a sense of what the game is. That is the whole point of an OP. If someone checks the OP to get a quick synopsis of the game but then has to wade through a swamp of useless details to get to the point, then the OP isn't very effective.
Click to expand...
says you.

Game OPs are supposed to be as accessible as humanly possible. The problem with the AC OP is that fans of the game will go nuts over it but people who are just checking the OP to see if they'd be interested in trying an AC game are likely to get extremely overwhelmed.
Click to expand...
says you.

If someone wants more information on a game but would rather ignore the OP and get the information somewhere else because of how garish it is, then there is a problem!
Click to expand...
says you.

the only point i'm missing is where you're getting the idea that OPs are *supposed* to be one thing or the other. i'm not saying every games op should be like the MGS4 op am i?
 
G

Grecco

Member
Air Zombie Meat said:
Also seems a bit harsh singling out one thread. It may be bigger than usual but it's content isn't much different from the usual [OT].



Right but looking at the ac one it's now evolved into five pages of arguing about whether it's a good op or not.
Click to expand...


And very little in discussion of the game. This is why Bloated viralesque OTS are not a good thing. In the end they dont promote dicussion of the game, they promote GREAT OP GREAT POST, like fishing for compliments.
 
R

renitou

Member
felipepl said:
Though I kinda agree that maybe they're too heavy (even by today's web and PC standards), they're quickly becoming something really GAF-esque. GAF is known by their awesome members, their insight into the gaming community and industry in general, and because of that, we're very respectable (and often quoted
HI KOTAKU
) by the gaming press.

OTs here are way past just "more information", they became a work of art and a symbol of how the NeoGAF community is different than anything else out there.

Keep'm coming.
Click to expand...
Mastubatory.
 
T

Takamura-San

Member
BiggNife said:
I think all of these "If you don't like it just ignore it" arguments are kind of missing the point

People check OPs to get general information on a game and to get a sense of what the game is. That is the whole point of an OP. If someone checks the OP to get a quick synopsis of the game but then has to wade through a swamp of useless details to get to the point, then the OP isn't very effective.

Game OPs are supposed to be as accessible as humanly possible. The problem with the AC OP is that fans of the game will go nuts over it but people who are just checking the OP to see if they'd be interested in trying an AC game are likely to get extremely overwhelmed.

If someone wants more information on a game but would rather ignore the OP and get the information somewhere else because of how garish it is, then there is a problem!
Click to expand...

That would be a valid point of the AC |OT| was disorganized...but it isn't.

Everything is titled and organized. There should not be any problem finding the information that you want.

The fact that people are complaining here about scrolling down to look for information is truly sad.

Edit: taking out meme
 
D

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
Personally, the only thing I don't like is OPs made of nothing but images. Becuase the images will break eventually.
 
P

plagiarize

Banned
Lord-Audie said:
That would be a valid point of the AC |OT| was disorganized...but it isn't.

Everything is titled and organized. There should not be any problem finding the information that you want.

The fact that people are complaining here about scrolling down to look for information.....

Those are first world problems man... "MAH SCROLL WHEELZ FINGERS HURTS!!!"
Click to expand...
i think the whole fwp thing is a banned meme. just giving you a heads up.
 
jediyoshi

jediyoshi

Member
Sickboy007 said:
I really don't get what's the problem, if you just want to see release dates/review scores you can skip to them with honestly zero effort.
Click to expand...

Conceptually it's also easy to find the formula for atacamite, but at least on Wikipedia you have the ability to ctrl+f.
 
C

Crumpet Trumpet

Banned
Andrex said:
I humbly submit to you my Super Mario 3D Land OT. <3

No scrollbars! Even on netbooks! Impressions from actual Gaffers! One post only!

OK so I get like, one post to stroke my ego OK?

Amir0x is basing the Skyward Sword format on it, and I'm providing the netbook-friendly header images. So that should be a good thread too.
Click to expand...
I really like that you put in Gaffer's opinions and highlighted good and bad receptions to the game.
 
N

NotTheGuyYouKill

Member
Lord-Audie said:
That would be a valid point of the AC |OT| was disorganized...but it isn't.

Everything is titled and organized. There should not be any problem finding the information that you want.

The fact that people are complaining here about scrolling down to look for information.....

Those are first world problems man... "MAH SCROLL WHEELZ FINGERS HURTS!!!"
Click to expand...

That is true, iNvidious did a good job of organizing everything with quick links to where you need to go to get what information you need, including backstory, considering the AC series is very story-heavy.

The only valid complaint I get is the frustration for people using it on their phones, but other than that, big OTs are not a big deal if they're organized well. When done right, they are awesome.
 
M

Mooreberg

is sharpening a shovel and digging a ditch
Who is it exactly that people are afraid they are losing credibility with? Gaming journalists? Blogs? Assholes on Reddit? The other side of the forum has people defending Olivia Munn's immense talents and yet somehow gaming threads are falling below some standard that doesn't exist.
 
S

Sullichin

Member
I don't understand why the people making the OTs put so much work into the first post, seems like a total waste of time if you're not getting paid for it. Some of them have a ton of custom made images and are filled with information.
 
F

flyinpiranha

Member
Grecco said:
And very little in discussion of the game. This is why Bloated viralesque OTS are not a good thing. In the end they dont promote dicussion of the game, they promote GREAT OP GREAT POST, like fishing for compliments.
Click to expand...

Not true. The first 5 pages of ANY OT are usually "Can't wait" "Hype rising" and shit like that. Just because the OP has a shitload of information (whether you are looking for it or not) is NOT the reason idiotic members have to complain about it in the thread, that's because of the members themselves. Don't blame the topic.

I saw that the AC thread had a shit ton of information, I'm not in there crying about it like there is some law to OT's that the person didn't abide by.

Even if they are fishing for compliments, who cares? When did this forum because so anal about everything that happens? "

Gee, a bunch of people are excited for a game, I better post about how they're overdoing it!"

If anything lately on GAF I've noticed it's the amount of stupid opinion pieces like this that aren't relevant to gaming at all. They are just self professed bitching podiums because of something that rarely happens they dislike.
 
P

pakkit

Banned
The_Leducs said:
Whining about too much content, for real?

That OP is amazing. If it's too long then don't read it. They clearly but a lot of effort into that thread, much more so than you did. They deserve credit for their dedication and you deserve to be shunned for your laziness and complaining about someone being overly informative. No one is forcing you to read anything.
Click to expand...
There are Wikis for exhaustive information on games, why use a DISCUSSION FORUM (the term discussion indicates more than one-party) for behemoth posts?

Yes, the OP is impressive. It's obvious a lot of time has been poured into making it, but that's not what is important. I agree that OTs need to be stripped of their PR stench, and, even more, I'd LOVE it if all OTs for large releases had a side-thread for technical issues. So many times as of late the OT of games has been crowded with technical jib-jabs that, in the long run, have little to nothing to do with the game at hand. When I enter an OT, I'm looking for strats, divergent opinions, interpretation of themes, favorite parts, etc. Not lines of code.

On the whole, I think this thread points to some organizational issues with NeoGAF that are starting to make it feel antiquated on the internet. I love the community, but it's getting harder and harder to sift through all the fluff.
 
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