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[Aselith]

A sarcastic and unfunny repsonse with no kind of substance behind it at all, eh? That's a shame. And your first post made it seem like you were actually worth replying to.

I was trying to point out to you that substance is more important than flash but apparently reading subtlety is not your strength.

So, here goes again...I think substance is more important than flash so the flash should come after in my opinion. When I say flash I mean to say pretty pictures and when I say substance I mean information relevant to players of the game. Please ask if what I say is still unclear to you.

 

[fernoca]

So they're either being paid for overworked PR jobs or they're doing it for free because of how big consumerist fanboys they are?

Both points are too extremists. How many MK related items I have right now? None. Why? Because I've sold most things because I'm unemployed. Heck, during the time I made the MK OT I had to alternate by calling and going to the unemployment offices to fix and change some stuff and going to job interviews. (and filling some online stuff for TSA)

If they are not getting compensated then it's rather sad. The forum makes money through traffic generated, the game producer gets copy written for them and the benefit of whatever interest it generates, the same with any store offering pre-order bonuses getting more traffic, but the person doing all the work gets nothing?

Nothing sad. No bonuses, no money, I 've always liked MK; so why not. Keyword is liking, not a priority. Even when I have my room infected of Nintendo stuff (that I'll probably have to end selling in a few months); gaming and MK for that matter are not the most important things.

 

[GorillaJu]

I really only hate stupid titles for OTs, especially ones that sound like they were written up by the game's PR team (or in the OT forum, it happens a lot for TV shows, albums, etc).

 

[onken]

Yeah that AC OT is fucking horrible, though I literally never read them so whatever.

 

[Shanadeus]

Another OT (On the gaming side) that is fine (but stretching it a bit, look at this thread as an example of an OT closer to the upper limit of images/information rather than the lower limit):

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=448752

 

[domlolz]

you just criticized the character design of 99.99999999999% of females in video games

and...?

 

[obonicus]

It's kind of weird to see folks surprised that on a fan forum fans are behaving like fans. Sometimes people just really like things. I don't identify, but my heart's a chunk of charcoal.

 

[Boss Doggie]

The OTs I hate tend to also be superfluous, which the problem OP linked persists.

It's kinda like how in submitting projects, people used fancy, annoying fonts.

 

[echoshifting]

It's kind of weird to see folks surprised that on a fan forum fans are behaving like fans. Sometimes people just really like things. I don't identify, but my heart's a chunk of charcoal.

Allowing for the possibility that these OTs really do dampen critical discussion of the game, is neogaf the best environment for mindless fanboy gushing? Last time I checked that is a skip and a jump down the road to ban-dom in many cases.

I mean, we do have a community board. People aren't using it, but it's right there. That seems like a better environment for shameless fan behavior.

 

[Rezbit]

Skyrim OT - good! Useful info, ie it features a paragraph on the story and setting, has release date, features, some media thumbnails and a little bit of extras. And in one post!

AC:R OT - what is this I don't even. How many posts did it take up?

 

[EmCeeGramr]

I know the difference between criticism and whining. I would love to see more thoughtful criticism. But most of what I see is, "This one minor detail isn't exactly the way I want therefore the whole thing is dogshit." The key to good criticism is balance and accuracy.

No you're not seeing that, so I don't know why you would post something you know is untrue. Nobody's criticizing "one minor detail not being exactly the way they want." That's a straight-up lie.

 

[Aselith]

Skyrim OT - good! Useful info, ie it features a paragraph on the story and setting, has release date, features, some media thumbnails and a little bit of extras. And in one post!

AC:R OT - what is this I don't even. How many posts did it take up?

11 and that was with picture-text to keep the character count down!

 

[wonzo]

Not everyone can do that.

If you can't even do something as basic as cropping/resizing an image for an avatar then you are literally retarded and don't deserve one.

 

[ZealousD]

I've made a few OT's that go over one post.

BlazBlue Calamity Trigger
Darksiders
StarCraft II : Wings of Liberty

As somebody who's been around the block a few times on these, I'd just like to recognize that I understand 100% about how enormously bloated some OTs can be. Some people try to put everything into the OP and they just sort of miss the point. The point of an OT shouldn't be about dumping every single piece of info about the game into the thread. It's about providing a useful resource to other gaffers.

I have a few rules.

1.) Minimize screenshots. Putting full res screenshots into an OP makes it a pain to scroll through and they're some of the least important things you can put in an OP. There's nothing that a big screenshot can do that a link to a video can't do better.

2.) Don't be afraid of plain text. Sure, maybe if you use text in images your stuff may look better, but your OT isn't going to be near as future proof if people want to look at it later. Plus, putting text in images usually just makes more space to scroll through.

3.) Think to yourself anytime you put something in, "Do I really need this thing in here, or does this information already exist elsewhere in a better format?". An OT should not be the end all, be all resource for everything about a game. Don't be afraid to use links.

 

[Radec]

the holocaust took a lot of effort too

I'm outta here...

 

[fernoca]

If you can't even do something as basic as cropping/resizing an image for an avatar then you are literally retarded and don't deserve one.

Ehr..Is not that is something "basic", but with the size restrictions and other aspects (removing backgrounds, cropping properly, etc.); some would rather prefer someone else do it.

For the MK OT, a good a mount of people requested avatars (which is why the section for it kinda looks out of place as the original thread, as big as it was didn't had avatars ). So I made the requested ones, and added the rest to it "just in case".

Also why in the other threads I made I either add some/few avatars and wallpapers.

No problems, was fun..but saying people that don't do them or don't know how to are retarded is uncalled for.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

the holocaust took a lot of effort too

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

 

[IJoel]

I prefer truly original ones like the Ninja Gaiden 2 OT (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=301558).

 

[obonicus]

Allowing for the possibility that these OTs really do dampen critical discussion of the game, is neogaf the best environment for mindless fanboy gushing? Last time I checked that is a skip and a jump down the road to ban-dom in many cases.

Two points: First, generally posters who aren't 'gushing' with praise are gushing with vitriol. Best-or-worst syndrome, and I think the former is more tolerable. Second, you assume that removing a big OT would actually improve the discourse. I don't see how that follows. Beyond the first few dozen posts commenting on what a great OP was created you get a bunch of people who already have made up their mind. They're not doing it because of the OP, the OP at best just validates what they already believe. Note that 'joke' (see DA2) OTs are no better; they just go in the other direction, with people validating their dislike for a game via the OT. If you want actual discourse on a game, wait for the LTTP and even then you're likely to get a nice best-or-worst split going.

In the end, there's really very little concrete to the OP's argument. Are the people making these hired by PR firms? You can pretty easily see that they're not. The argument then becomes that if they're not PR, they're doing the job of PR. Which isn't true; if they're acting like PR people, they're acting like PR people who are really bad at their job (but good with photoshop). Are they providing free advertising? I guess, but it's really unobtrusive -- if I don't care at all for a game, I just don't visit the thread and that's the end of it. So about half of the argument seems to be 'I don't like that they exist', which isn't reasonable.

Do they miss the point of an OT? Well, there might be a point here, but so far opinions have differed. Is the idea to instruct you on everything about a game? They're pretty good at that. Are they meant to be like wikipedia game templates, with little more than crucial information? They're not so good at that. I do wish evilore would give his thoughts as to whether there should or not be a guideline, honestly, as it's his board.

But text in images kind of sucks.

 

[Criminal Upper]

the holocaust took a lot of effort too

WTF

I am honestly shocked anyone could say something this stupid.

 

[Boss Doggie]

But honestly, using effort as something automatically positive is rather bad form.

 

[DeBurgo]

I recall the last time someone brought this up (that OT threads were becoming garish and stupid) they accused the person of hating fun.

I, for one, admit that I do hate fun, however.

 

[ReturnOfTheRAT]

As someone who has never played the AC games, that OT taught me everything I could ever want to know about those games.

Isn't that a success?

 

[Criminal Upper]

As someone who has never played the AC games, that OT taught me everything I could ever want to know about those games.

Isn't that a success?

No, it's big, and long, and big. So everyone should complain about it, apparently.

 

[Aselith]

WTF

I am honestly shocked anyone could say something this stupid.

You don't think it did?

 

[carbonbased]

thank you. someone needed to say it. hadn't seen that asscreed thread until now and it is just mindbogglingly bad. who is going to read through all that dreck? for comparison i thought the Stealth Bastard thread was really well done: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=451007

no matter what happens though the text-as-an-image fad needs to be purged from this world.

 

[Aselith]

As someone who has never played the AC games, that OT taught me everything I could ever want to know about those games.

Isn't that a success?

So i reckon every time a Zelda game comes out we should teach you everything about the series just in case there's a first timer? Or Final Fantasy? The point is not to be complete for the series but to give a decent OVERVIEW of the game. The fact that the OP taught you everything you could want to know about the series makes it way too bloated.

He could have easily made the history of AC a companion thread with a link in the OT which would have had a place for discussion of the series as whole and then a different forum for the game that is coming out.

 

[Criminal Upper]

You don't think it did?

I'm merely shocked someone is comparing the effort to spend a few nights in photoshop to make an extravagant official thread on the internet to the effort that it would take to commit mass genocide.

Truly one of GAF's lowest moments.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

I'm merely shocked someone is comparing the effort to spend a few nights in photoshop to make an extravagant official thread on the internet to the effort that it would take to commit mass genocide.

Truly one of GAF's lowest moments.

They're not comparing the relative effort but rather equating the intent, if that makes you feel any better about it.

 

[iNvid02]

So i reckon every time a Zelda game comes out we should teach you everything about the series just in case there's a first timer? Or Final Fantasy? The point is not to be complete for the series but to give a decent OVERVIEW of the game. The fact that the OP taught you everything you could want to know about the series makes it way too bloated.

This will be the final game for 2 of the major characters who have been in the 3 previous games. So yeah a recap of the other games was necessary.

 

[EvilDick34]

I'm not going to lie, i RARELY read OT's unless i'm looking for reviews, videos, screenshots and release dates. So really, that to me is what OT's should be about. That AC OT is just goddamn ridiculous in a bad way.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

But honestly, using effort as something automatically positive is rather bad form.

ding ding ding

 

[Boss Doggie]

Hell, you might as well just read the OT posts rather than playing the game.

This will be the final game for 2 of the major characters who have been in the 3 previous games. So yeah a recap of the other games was necessary.

I dunno, I heard recaps don't take huge spaces.

 

[Aselith]

This will be the final game for 2 of the major characters who have been in the 3 previous games. So yeah a recap of the other games was necessary.

Why does it being the final game for two characters mean that we now need the entire series recapped? Zelda and Link are in every Zelda game. We need to know their history to understand the current game obviously.

As I said it could have been a separate thread that went into more detail linked from the OT for new players to familiarize themselves. People who know the series...already know the series.

 

[EvilDick34]

This will be the final game for 2 of the major characters who have been in the 3 previous games. So yeah a recap of the other games was necessary.

This is what a wiki is for IMO. Chances are, someone who is playing this AC has already played others so i doubt we need all the backstory.

 

[carbonbased]

This will be the final game for 2 of the major characters who have been in the 3 previous games. So yeah a recap of the other games was necessary.

then link the wikipedia article if they can't be arsed to do some light research or god forbid play the games themselves.

 

[obonicus]

Why does it being the final game for two characters mean that we now need the entire series recapped? Zelda and Link are in every Zelda game. We need to know their history to understand the current game obviously.

That's apples and oranges. Final Fantasy or Zelda games are mostly standalone. The AC games have an overarching plot that the games do a very poor job of explaining to you. AC:B particularly starts you off at the end of AC2 and basically says 'Go!'. A more valid question is whether people who didn't play the previous ACs will be interested in this one, or how much space does it really take to write a recap.

 

[Community Forum]

The point is not to be complete for the series but to give a decent OVERVIEW of the game. The fact that the OP taught you everything you could want to know about the series makes it way too bloated.

Who are YOU to decide what the initial posts of an OT should or should not be? If someone is excited for a game and that individuality shines through then more power to 'em. The only reason I used to read GameFan was because of how excited and passionate they would get about games. Last thing I want is a hard and fast rule about every single goddamn thing around here.

 

[entremet]

Can't please everyone it seems.

 

[Aselith]

Who are YOU to decide what the initial posts of an OT should or should not be? If someone is excited for a game and that individuality shines through then more power to 'em. The only reason I used to read GameFan was because of how excited and passionate they would get about games. Last thing I want is a hard and fast rule about every single goddamn thing around here.

A member of the forum voicing his opinion.

 

[Irish]

This is how the AC:R OT is set up:

1st post: Table of Contents with links to each individual part/release date info
2nd post: information about the different versions of the game
3rd post: All of the new singplayer gameplay additions and an introduction to the plot of Revelations as well as important character/environment information
4th post: All of the multiplayer stuff. Every mode/character detailed.
5th post: Media
6th post: Reserved for upcoming reviews
7th post: Additional merchandise such as apparel, OST, Encyclopedia

Now these next few posts are relevant in this case because the game is a direct continuation of the last game and a finale for the two main characters in the series. Brotherhood, for example, picked up exactly FIVE SECONDS after ACII ended. These next four posts are necessary for playing through and understanding what happens in Revelations.

8th post: Recap of AC1
9th post: Recap of ACII and story-related DLC
10th post: Recap of AC:B and story-related DLC

11th post: Background information on the series to help people better remember what is happening. 13th post could have gone here.

12th post: not all that necessary
14th post: Future AC stuff and fan art: Not relevant
15th post: Credits

Now, iNvidious could have probably put this all into the first post but he chose not to in order to increase readability. By each section having its own post, he could post the links to the information, so anyone reading could quickly access the section that most interested them without scrolling through everything, which is one of the the things the people were bitching about doing. Also, if he wrote everything that was indeed relevant out in copyable text, it would have taken even more posts to convey due to the character limit restrictions (which I believe were unnecessary for GAF).

______

So i reckon every time a Zelda game comes out we should teach you everything about the series just in case there's a first timer? Or Final Fantasy? The point is not to be complete for the series but to give a decent OVERVIEW of the game. The fact that the OP taught you everything you could want to know about the series makes it way too bloated.

Except for the fact that AC:Revelations is the conclusion of everything that occurred in AC1, 2, and Brohood. Nothing that happened in the previous Zelda games mean anything to the new one, nothing that happened in the previous FF games mean anything to the new one (outside of FFX-2 and FFXIII-2), nothing that happened in the last GTA means anything...

 

[reggie]

I'm merely shocked someone is comparing the effort to spend a few nights in photoshop to make an extravagant official thread on the internet to the effort that it would take to commit mass genocide.

Truly one of GAF's lowest moments.

You are getting angry about nothing and missed his point completely. He isn't comparing comparing the two, he's pointing out that effort isn't relevant on whether something is good or not.

 

[Drinky Crow]

never, ever cater to the needs of fanboys. EVER. this should be graven into stone, or at least the HTML equivalent thereof around here.

 

[obonicus]

Who are YOU to decide what the initial posts of an OT should or should not be? If someone is excited for a game and that individuality shines through then more power to 'em. The only reason I used to read GameFan was because of how excited and passionate they would get about games. Last thing I want is a hard and fast rule about every single goddamn thing around here.

This is basically how I feel. These OTs are often enough labors of love; I enjoy seeing labors of love. I can't help but think that those who believe a really effusive OT will lower the level of discourse are delusional.

never, ever cater to the needs of fanboys. EVER. this should be graven into stone, or at least the HTML equivalent thereof around here.

Yes, but you're kind of the Godwin's law of GAF.

 

[Community Forum]

A member of the forum voicing his opinion.

That's fair!

 

[Aselith]

Except for the fact that AC:Revelations is the conclusion of everything that occurred in AC1, 2, and Brohood. Nothing that happened in the previous Zelda games mean anything to the new one, nothing that happened in the previous FF games mean anything to the new one (outside of FFX-2 and FFXIII-2), nothing that happened in the last GTA means anything...

People who played the games already know. People who didn't play them should play them or look into their history. OT's don't have to be all things to all people.

That's fair!

No shit.

 

[SirPenguin]

It always makes me uneasy when OTs get so masturbatory. I don't expect OTs to be unbiased or anything of that sort, but they shouldn't read like cheesy PR.

I think a few small limitations can help lessen these monstrosities. Things like a 1 page limit, using text in place of pictures of text, etc.

 

[iNvid02]

I couldn't give 2 shits about what these guys expect from an OT. Unless evilore adds guidelines nothing to worry about. Most people here don't have a clue about the AC games and why the OT is 95% relevant.

 

[Community Forum]

No shit.

Doesn't mean you're right.

 

[Boss Doggie]

There's no need for rules, but surely standards should be set up.