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[Orochinagis]

If you're claiming that where you jump from is where the sun is, it's in the opposite direction.

Well, the moon/sun have the same markings as the clocktower if you look closely or an "eye" like the item you have to enter the DLC

 

[Kurtofan]

With Bloodborne 2 probably happening after Dark Souls 3 I wonder where they will take the story to. The current ''era'' feels kinda done. Maybe it's about Pthumerians or a completely new story/lore entirely. Lorecraft is cool but it would be also neat for them to go all the way with the gothic horror mode. Maybe vampires will be a big deal or something.

I thought Dark Souls 3 was to be the last Souls game?

 

[Edzi]

I thought Dark Souls 3 was to be the last Souls game?

Bloodborne technically isn't a Souls game.

 

[Manu]

Bloodborne technically isn't a Souls game.

Miyazaki said Bloodborne was included when he talked about not doing more games in that style.

 

[Edzi]

Miyazaki said Bloodborne was included when he talked about not doing more games in that style.

Oh, didn't realize that. In that case, I'm not sure why people are still talking about a Bloodborne 2.

 

[DarkFlame]

I think Bloodborne 2 is already in developement,what he said is that he'll stop doing Soul's game after he is done with the current projects,DS3 and BB2

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Isn't that just mentioning the scourge of the beast though? Not the specific hunter's nightmare curse that Kos/the orphan casts.

There's serious implications that the scourge of the beast was exactly that, Kos curse.

I believe being trapped in the nightmare is more of a side-effect, since you were infected by the vermin after your death you end in the source of the infection.

 

[Fancy Clown]

There's serious implications that the scourge of the beast was exactly that, Kos curse.

I believe being trapped in the nightmare is more of a side-effect, since you were infected by the vermin after your death you end in the source of the infection.

Why would Kos curse a civilization that existed long before Yharnam (Loran) and the defilement of it's corpse?

I think the beast scourge is some sort of disease like thing from using old blood, or maybe something relating to the vermin.

The DLC very much states that Kos's curse is the Hunter's Nightmare, and everything we know about the DLC's story backs that up. I can't think of any good evidence that would suggest Kos's curse caused the scourge of the beast.

 

[DoubleTake]

Why would Kos curse a civilization that existed long before Yharnam (Loran) and the defilement of it's corpse?

I think the beast scourge is some sort of disease like thing from using old blood, or maybe something relating to the vermin.

The DLC very much states that Kos's curse is the Hunter's Nightmare, and everything we know about the DLC's story backs that up. I can't think of any good evidence that would suggest Kos's curse caused the scourge of the beast.

Im of the opinion that her curse didnt directly cause the scourge of the beast but set into motion the things that would. We know, according to some dialogue from the villager at the start of the Hamlet, that she laid a curse of blood upon them and every child that was born afterwards.

So what happens? Laurence lets ambition get the best of him and goes and founds the healing church. At first their dabbling in Blood ministration is more or less underground which is supported by the Hunter Garb("Allows one to stalk beasts unannounced, by cover of night). Micolash beckons Mergo who's cries catch the attention of the Moon Presence. Laurence Beckons the Moon Presence who's drawing near causes the beast sickness to blow up in Yharnam. Laurence creates the Healing Church hunters to combat the even more grotesque beasts that are emerging. Now the nightly hunt isnt so much of a secret. Its the classic domino effect.

 

[Auctopus]

I'm not sure why people are still talking about a Bloodborne 2.

Because GAF knows business better than businesses.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Im of the opinion that her curse didnt directly cause the scourge of the beast but set into motion the things that would. We know, according to some dialogue from the villager at the start of the Hamlet, that she laid a curse of blood upon them and every child that was born afterwards.

So what happens? Laurence lets ambition get the best of him and goes and founds the healing church. At first their dabbling in Blood ministration is more or less underground which is supported by the Hunter Garb("Allows one to stalk beasts unannounced, by cover of night). Micolash beckons Mergo who's cries catch the attention of the Moon Presence. Laurence Beckons the Moon Presence who's drawing near causes the beast sickness to blow up in Yharnam. Laurence creates the Healing Church hunters to combat the even more grotesque beasts that are emerging. Now the nightly hunt isnt so much of a secret. Its the classic domino effect.

The blood and children line in the curse just means that all hunters that "descend" from Gherman and Luarance, not literal blood or children. The curse wasnt some sort of divine intervention that influenced Luarance into blood experimentation either. That would run totally counter to the themes Bloodborne sets up about how human greed and ambition bring about tragedy. To have that decision be the result of a curse would negate much of the power of the story. I stand by that the curse is exactly what it seems: the hunter's nightmare, devised as revenge by Kos or the Orphan for the pillaging of the hamlet. It's what the DLC is all about. I don't think there's any evidence to make the leap that it's anything else. It's just speculation.

 

[Disaster Nebraska]

There's serious implications that the scourge of the beast was exactly that, Kos curse.

I believe being trapped in the nightmare is more of a side-effect, since you were infected by the vermin after your death you end in the source of the infection.

I thought Ashen Blood and the continued abuse of old blood is what led to people becoming beasts.

 

[Fancy Clown]

I thought Ashen Blood and the continued abuse of old blood is what led to people becoming beasts.

Ashen blood was some kind of disease, and when antidotes weren't treating it well they turned to blood ministration (which causes beasts). So ashen blood doesn't really cause the scourge itself, but is a factor in the abuse of old blood. Same thing happened in Loran and then Old Yharnam.

 

[Disaster Nebraska]

Ashen blood was some kind of disease, and when antidotes weren't treating it well they turned to blood ministration (which causes beasts). So ashen blood doesn't really cause the scourge itself, but is a factor in the abuse of old blood. Same thing happened in Loran and then Old Yharnam.

I'm just basing it off the Antidote description:

The ashen blood ailment eventually triggered the spread of the beastly scourge.

Fundamentally, I agree that it was the blood abuse and not the ashen blood disease itself that led to beasts, but ashen blood perhaps hastened the transformation into beasts, weakened people against the negative effects of blood, etc

 

[GorillaJu]

Oh, didn't realize that. In that case, I'm not sure why people are still talking about a Bloodborne 2.

I would honesty be surprised if there was a Bloodborne 2.

 

[CHC]

I would honesty be surprised if there was a Bloodborne 2.

Me too. It's too rich and heavy for a sequel - if that makes sense. It feels like a creative vision realized as it was intended, which is rare enough in this industry. Sometimes we just have to let a good thing be a good thing, rather than hope for more more more.

 

[GorillaJu]

Me too. It's too rich and heavy for a sequel - if that makes sense. It feels like a creative vision realized as it was intended, which is rare enough in this industry. Sometimes we just have to let a good thing be a good thing, rather than hope for more more more.

People are also very often mischaracterizing SCEJ as a mega publisher like Activision who want to turn every mildly successful IP into a yearly franchise when that's not how they operate and certainly not with FromSoft.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Fundamentally, I agree that it was the blood abuse and not the ashen blood disease itself that led to beasts, but ashen blood perhaps hastened the transformation into beasts, weakened people against the negative effects of blood, etc

It hypothetically could, but just going off the description and what we know about the blood I think it means triggered the spread because blood was used as treatment for it, since we know for a fact people come to Yharnam for the blood's healing properties. Whereas we know nothing about ashen blood other than that it's a spreadable disease. I try not to speculate beyond what we have evidence for, because while it may sound entirely reasonable and plausible (like ashen blood hastening beast transformation), it makes it much easier to start building theories off of speculation that all sound plausible, but in reality we're probably getting further away from what the game and narrative is trying to convey since it gets further away from the evidence.

 

[GorillaJu]

It hypothetically could, but just going off the description and what we know about the blood I think it means triggered the spread because blood was used as treatment for it, since we know for a fact people come to Yharnam for the blood's healing properties. Whereas we know nothing about ashen blood other than that it's a spreadable disease. I try not to speculate beyond what we have evidence for, because while it may sound entirely reasonable and plausible (like ashen blood hastening beast transformation), it makes it much easier to start building theories off of speculation that all sound plausible, but in reality we're probably getting further away from what the game and narrative is trying to convey since it gets further away from the evidence.

Agreed completely. It's why I don't really enjoy Vaati's speculation so much because a lot of it is purely hypothetical speculation, with the blanks very liberally and generously filled in with fan theories.

 

[Laughing Banana]

There's serious implications that the scourge of the beast was exactly that, Kos curse.

I believe being trapped in the nightmare is more of a side-effect, since you were infected by the vermin after your death you end in the source of the infection.

No, it would be inconsistent with one simple fact: The Hunters was first devised as a response to the Beast Scourge, correct? And yet at the time of the Kos incident the Hunter system has clearly already been established with the existence of Ludwig and Maria, with the first as the First Hunter of the Healing Church and the latter clearly stated as Gherman's disciple, even.

It wouldn't make any sense if the Hunter establishment was build for something that has not yet happened. The source of the Beast scourge is not Kos--it's Laurence and co. fiddling around with the Old Blood after they discovered a "Holy Medium" in the catacombs under Yharnam (Chalice)--it's either Queen Yharnam or Ebrietas; I think it was Ebrietas considering that her location in the main game is right in the Grand Cathedral. It's a entirely different incident than the incident of the Old Hunters.

 

[Disaster Nebraska]

It hypothetically could, but just going off the description and what we know about the blood I think it means triggered the spread because blood was used as treatment for it, since we know for a fact people come to Yharnam for the blood's healing properties. Whereas we know nothing about ashen blood other than that it's a spreadable disease. I try not to speculate beyond what we have evidence for, because while it may sound entirely reasonable and plausible (like ashen blood hastening beast transformation), it makes it much easier to start building theories off of speculation that all sound plausible, but in reality we're probably getting further away from what the game and narrative is trying to convey since it gets further away from the evidence.

I don't think it's much of a stretch if we simply take the item description at face value.

For some undefined reason, ashen blood "triggered the spread of the scourge" in such a way that it prompted Old Yarnham to be torched. The increased usage of blood, the ashen blood disease itself heightening the negative effects, etc are all equally speculative and are probably true in some way.

Other areas that seemed to lack the ashen blood disease to any significant degree (like central yarnham) were affected by the scourge but not to such a degree that it was also torched. This is what leads me to believe ashen blood had some sort of affect on the rate of infection, potency of infection, or something like that, above and beyond what would "normally" occur to a populace that was simply using a lot of blood. The result of blood is the beast scourge, period. Ashen blood didn't cause the scourge, but it definitely made it happen faster.

There's also the facet of whether or not ashen blood came before or after blood ministration was first introduced. "Ashen Blood" (white blood?) came about and while they tried to combat it with antidotes, it didn't help ("These tablets only provide short-term relief"). My guess would be ashen blood was maybe the first major outbreak of beasthood symptoms, or maybe just the early stages of beasthood, which ironically worsened when they tried to heal it with more blood. I doubt ashen blood came about before the old blood was discovered underground, so it's safe to assume it came after, even if it was not directly related (I think it was).

Taking it one step further, your first Chalice (a.k.a the portal into the underground civilization where Ebrietas and the Old blood were discovered) is found at the bottom of Old Yarnham. That's a small connection but I think it's worth noting. Maybe Old Yarnham was the first geographical area where blood was widely used, therefore it was also the first area of a major beasthood outbreak (scourge).

Also, I do agree that speculation is fun but we can't go much beyond the item descriptions and lore.

Also, your avatar is from a great movie.

 

[Fancy Clown]

I don't think it's much of a stretch if we simply take the item description at face value.

For some undefined reason, ashen blood "triggered the spread of the scourge" in such a way that it prompted Old Yarnham to be torched. The increased usage of blood, the ashen blood disease itself heightening the negative effects, etc are all equally speculative and are probably true in some way.

Other areas that seemed to lack the ashen blood disease to any significant degree (like central yarnham) were affected by the scourge but not to such a degree that it was also torched. This is what leads me to believe ashen blood had some sort of affect on the rate of infection, potency of infection, or something like that, above and beyond what would "normally" occur to a populace that was simply using a lot of blood. The result of blood is the beast scourge, period. Ashen blood didn't cause the scourge, but it definitely made it happen faster.

There's also the facet of whether or not ashen blood came before or after blood ministration was first introduced. "Ashen Blood" (white blood?) came about and while they tried to combat it with antidotes, it didn't help ("These tablets only provide short-term relief"). My guess would be ashen blood was maybe the first major outbreak of beasthood symptoms, or maybe just the early stages of beasthood, which ironically worsened when they tried to heal it with more blood. I doubt ashen blood came about before the old blood was discovered underground, so it's safe to assume it came after, even if it was not directly related (I think it was).

Taking it one step further, your first Chalice (a.k.a the portal into the underground civilization where Ebrietas and the Old blood were discovered) is found at the bottom of Old Yarnham. That's a small connection but I think it's worth noting. Maybe Old Yarnham was the first geographical area where blood was widely used, therefore it was also the first area of a major beasthood outbreak (scourge).

Also, I do agree that speculation is fun but we can't go much beyond the item descriptions and lore.

Also, your avatar is from a great movie.

Yeah I think there is definitely more we need to know about ashen blood because I believe that also affected Loran too, right? And as you point out the name itself has its own suggestions. Do you remember which chalice you find in Old Yharnam? Whichever one it is that's likely the first chalice Yharnam had access to (since it's old yharnam) so whatever specific chalice it is and what's contained in the dungeon might offer some clues.

As ol Jack Burton always says at a time like this, yeah Big Trouble kicks ass.

 

[Disaster Nebraska]

Yeah I think there is definitely more we need to know about ashen blood because I believe that also affected Loran too, right? And as you point out the name itself has its own suggestions. Do you remember which chalice you find in Old Yharnam? Whichever one it is that's likely the first chalice Yharnam had access to (since it's old yharnam) so whatever specific chalice it is and what's contained in the dungeon might offer some clues.

As ol Jack Burton always says at a time like this, yeah Big Trouble kicks ass.

It's the first Pthumeru chalice. I remember distinctly because when I beat BSB and got it I was like "wat that sounds crazy. What is this item?"

Ailing Loran has a BSB in it too but I am leery of making connections based on bosses you find in the Chalices (other than explicit lore ones, like Pthumerian bosses or the Queen). Like many things in the game, we only have snippets and fragments of lore so the ashen blood speculation is mostly just speculation. It would've been cool to learn more about it in the DLC, if I'm being honest. We even got some more Powder Keg weapons in the DLC but not much more lore about them.

 

[Arkeband]

As far as discussion of where the beast curse first started, remember the constable gear talks about them chasing a beast into Yarnham, too.

 

[ISee]

As far as discussion of where the beast curse first started, remember the constable gear talks about them chasing a beast into Yarnham, too.

Yes but outsiders visited yharnam to get treated with blood, this way the disease probably spread out beyond yharnam borders from time to time. Or maybe a beast sometimes just 'escaped' into unknown territories.

No, it would be inconsistent with one simple fact: The Hunters was first devised as a response to the Beast Scourge, correct? And yet at the time of the Kos incident the Hunter system has clearly already been established with the existence of Ludwig and Maria, with the first as the First Hunter of the Healing Church and the latter clearly stated as Gherman's disciple, even.

It wouldn't make any sense if the Hunter establishment was build for something that has not yet happened. The source of the Beast scourge is not Kos--it's Laurence and co. fiddling around with the Old Blood after they discovered a "Holy Medium" in the catacombs under Yharnam (Chalice)--it's either Queen Yharnam or Ebrietas; I think it was Ebrietas considering that her location in the main game is right in the Grand Cathedral. It's a entirely different incident than the incident of the Old Hunters.

Okay this might sound dump, but what if there are two different 'curses'. One is the beast curse, turning people into 'werewolf' like beasts. This was triggered by the healing church after they started to play around with queen yharnam blood to turn themselves into 'old ones', but of course they laked the 'insight' to do so (and the umbilical cords).
The other one is the 'shark' curse turning people into fish like monsters, triggered by KOS. Or maybe they played around with his blood too?

 

[GorillaJu]

I think people turning into sharks vs people turning into werewolves is just a difference triggered by environment and is a case of lore being created to serve aesthetic design goals.

 

[Fancy Clown]

It's the first Pthumeru chalice. I remember distinctly because when I beat BSB and got it I was like "wat that sounds crazy. What is this item?"

Ailing Loran has a BSB in it too but I am leery of making connections based on bosses you find in the Chalices (other than explicit lore ones, like Pthumerian bosses or the Queen). Like many things in the game, we only have snippets and fragments of lore so the ashen blood speculation is mostly just speculation. It would've been cool to learn more about it in the DLC, if I'm being honest. We even got some more Powder Keg weapons in the DLC but not much more lore about them.

Yeah the chalices obfuscate the story and timeline even more than the nightmares do tbh. Yeah all we really learn about the powder kegs in the DLC as far as I noticed were that they came after a similar group known as the Oto workshop, and that one of Djura's companions is trapped in the hunter's nightmare protecting some beasties with his Gatling gun.

Okay this might sound dump, but what if there are two different 'curses'. One is the beast curse, turning people into 'werewolf' like beasts. This was triggered by the healing church after they started to play around with queen yharnam blood to turn themselves into 'old ones', but of course they laked the 'insight' to do so (and the umbilical cords).
The other one is the 'shark' curse turning people into fish like monsters, triggered by KOS. Or maybe they played around with his blood too?

The shark thing isn't a curse, since those are the villagers that worshiped Kos and the Orphan, and Kos got pissed siphon the hunters killed the villagers. They are fishy in that way due to either prolonged exposure to a Great One, or more likely eating phantasms or parasites of Kos that were in the sea (its a fishing hamlet but you see no fish, only the phantasm/parasites littered all over the level stuffed in barrels and on the floor, and some even used as candles. So as part of their veneration of Kos and their fisherman lifestyle I assume they ate and lived on those things and it turned them into what you find. They probably like being fish people, so it's not much of a curse.

 

[ISee]

The shark thing isn't a curse, since those are the villagers that worshiped Kos and the Orphan, and Kos got pissed siphon the hunters killed the villagers. They are fishy in that way due to either prolonged exposure to a Great One, or more likely eating phantasms or parasites of Kos that were in the sea (its a fishing hamlet but you see no fish, only the phantasm/parasites littered all over the level stuffed in barrels and on the floor, and some even used as candles. So as part of their veneration of Kos and their fisherman lifestyle I assume they ate and lived on those things and it turned them into what you find. They probably like being fish people, so it's not much of a curse.

Why do you think they like being fish people? I imagine that their shark/fish transformation was also a slow process, just like in yharnam. They worshiped KOS and developed strange rituals (probably not blood based, as you mentioned) which led into their transformation. Maybe they even wanted to be transformed, just like the healing church wanted to ascend and be transformed into old ones. But the outcome wasn't what they expected, instead of ascending into a higher level of consciousness (eyes are all over the place), they turned into more fishe like, mindless beasts.

 

[Sayad]

Okay this might sound dump, but what if there are two different 'curses'. One is the beast curse, turning people into 'werewolf' like beasts. This was triggered by the healing church after they started to play around with queen yharnam blood to turn themselves into 'old ones', but of course they laked the 'insight' to do so (and the umbilical cords).
The other one is the 'shark' curse turning people into fish like monsters, triggered by KOS. Or maybe they played around with his blood too?

The "Shark" thing doesn't look like a curse but something the villagers wanted or at least didn't mind, they worship Kos and strive to be closer to her in every way, the moment I got there it felt like a reminiscence of Lovcraft's Dagon. Hunters probably saw them as beasts and treated them as such which is where their hate for hunters come from.

Edit: oh, missed Fancy Clown's post, did a better job explaining it.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Why do you think they like being fish people? I imagine that their shark/fish transformation was also a slow process, just like in yharnam. They worshiped KOS and developed strange rituals (probably not blood based, as you mentioned) which led into their transformation. Maybe they even wanted to be transformed, just like the healing church wanted to ascend and be transformed into old ones. But the outcome wasn't what they expected, instead of ascending into a higher level of consciousness (eyes are all over the place), they turned into more fishe like, mindless beasts.

I doubt that the fishermen are aware of such things, "ascending to higher level of consciousness", I mean; it's the territory of scholars and "intelligent" people like Laurence and the folks of the Healing Church, after all. They simply encountered a God-like being and worshipped her. I do believe Kos in some capacity cared about them as well, since--as the game told us--the Great Ones are "sympathetic in nature."

The "Shark" thing doesn't look like a curse but something the villagers wanted or at least didn't mind, they worship Kos and strive to be closer to her in every way, the moment I got there it felt like a reminiscence of Lovcraft's Dagon. Hunters probably saw them as beasts and treated them as such which is where their hate for hunters come from.

Edit: oh, missed Fancy Clown's post, did a better job explaining it.

I doubt the villagers of the fishing village "hated" the Hunters, considering I believe the people in the Research Hall were coming from the village and many of them in the Research Hall basically thought Maria as an angel. They were just kidnapped by the Church and researched in hideous ways by Laurence and co due to their connection to Kos.

Maybe the Old Hunters also harmed or possibly killed Kos as well...? I am inclined to believe this too. This and their treatment of the village people basically what led Kos to curse the Hunters.

 

[Laughing Banana]

You know, with Old Hunter and all of its new story additions, it feels like many people are forgetting one thing and this keeps bugging me to no end: how is it possible that the Player Character recognizes the name "Paleblood"? Since that is the first thing that the PC "said" in this game after all--the doctor replying with "Paleblood? Oh yes..."

So how? Before he's/she's thrown into the whole Night of the Hunt situation, before the PC even meet with Gherman and the Doll, before he/she even knows about the Hunter's Dream--hell, before he's even familiar with Yharnam since the doctor also replied "Yharnam is the home of blood ministration", how is it possible that the PC knows the term Paleblood? Also the Japanese version of the handwritten scrawl note found in Iosefka's Clinic is described as "scrawl written by PC hunter"---so apparently his/her previous self before blood transfusion and memory loss *also* knows about how to to "transcend the hunt." How?

 

[Sayad]

You know, with Old Hunter and all of its new story additions, it feels like many people are forgetting one thing and this keeps bugging me to no end: how is it possible that the Player Character recognizes the name "Paleblood"? Since that is the first thing that the PC "said" in this game after all--the doctor replying with "Paleblood? Oh yes..."

So how? Before he's/she's thrown into the whole Night of the Hunt situation, before the PC even meet with Gherman and the Doll, before he/she even knows about the Hunter's Dream--hell, before he's even familiar with Yharnam since the doctor also replied "Yharnam is the home of blood ministration", how is it possible that the PC knows the term Paleblood? Also the Japanese version of the handwritten scrawl note found in Iosefka's Clinic is described as "scrawl written by PC hunter"---so apparently his/her previous self before blood transfusion and memory loss *also* knows about how to to "transcend the hunt." How?

What they announced about the story around the game's reveal, did imply that your character knew about Yharnam before the events of the game:

Bloodborne takes place in an ancient, forgotten city called Yharnam, known for an old medical remedy. Over the years, many hopeless and afflicted people have made long pilgrimages to Yharnam in search of help. As the main character, you are one of these travelers. However, you find that Yharnam is also cursed with a horrible endemic illness. You must navigate...

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2014/06/10/bloodborne-coming-exclusively-to-ps4-in-2015-new-details/

 

[Rurunaki]

You know, with Old Hunter and all of its new story additions, it feels like many people are forgetting one thing and this keeps bugging me to no end: how is it possible that the Player Character recognizes the name "Paleblood"? Since that is the first thing that the PC "said" in this game after all--the doctor replying with "Paleblood? Oh yes..."

So how? Before he's/she's thrown into the whole Night of the Hunt situation, before the PC even meet with Gherman and the Doll, before he/she even knows about the Hunter's Dream--hell, before he's even familiar with Yharnam since the doctor also replied "Yharnam is the home of blood ministration", how is it possible that the PC knows the term Paleblood? Also the Japanese version of the handwritten scrawl note found in Iosefka's Clinic is described as "scrawl written by PC hunter"---so apparently his/her previous self before blood transfusion and memory loss *also* knows about how to to "transcend the hunt." How?

Maybe that was the PC's purpose in travelling to Yharnam in the first place. We clearly know nothing about the PC aside from the fact that he has travelled to Yharnam maybe in search for a cure to his unknown illness. Yharnam was known for its miraculous "blood" cure and I'm sure the stories of the "hunt" has reached other regions and with it the term "Paleblood."

Edit: beaten like a barking crow

 

[Sayad]

I doubt the villagers of the fishing village "hated" the Hunters, considering I believe the people in the Research Hall were coming from the village and many of them in the Research Hall basically thought Maria as an angel. They were just kidnapped by the Church and researched in hideous ways by Laurence and co due to their connection to Kos.

Maybe the Old Hunters also harmed or possibly killed Kos as well...? I am inclined to believe this too. This and their treatment of the village people basically what led Kos to curse the Hunters.

By villagers I meant the current half-fish inhabitant of the village not when they were normal humans. Also, I think the people in the research lap were from Yahrnam since that's where the research lap is, and the way you enter the fishing village imply that it wasn't physically near the research lap. That and Adeline is definitely from Yahrnam since she says she was a blood saint.

 

[Derpot]

I don't know if someone already talked about it, but I wonder if the tombstone at the Fishing Hamlet was made by Maria for Kos ? Because when you look down behind the tombstone, you can notice Kos's corpse on the shore, so I thought the tombstone's location wasn't here at random.
I mean, maybe Maria was disgusted by Kos's death, so she threw away the Rakuyo in the well, made a tombstone for Kos and left a lumenwood flower on it ?

 

[GeordieMark]

Not heard anyone else make this connection, probably because it is baseless, but we learn that a brother and sister discovered the Eldritch Truth. Could it be that Gherman and Maria are that brother and sister? They are clearly close, and there is no romantic link between the two. What do you guys think?

 

[tesqui]

I like how you can see the wrecked ships in Fishing Hamlet from the Nightmare Frontier.

 

[SargerusBR]

The only thing i wanted to know is who is the Blood Minister at the very beginning of the game and what happened to him

 

[Derpot]

Not heard anyone else make this connection, probably because it is baseless, but we learn that a brother and sister discovered the Eldritch Truth. Could it be that Gherman and Maria are that brother and sister? They are clearly close, and there is no romantic link between the two. What do you guys think?

Hmm no, by reading one of the items' descriptions, we learn that Maria was from Cainhurst and was one of Gehrman's apprentices.
Also it has been said before that The Doll's appearance was based on Maria. And Gehrman was... well, very fond of her, it seems.

The only thing i wanted to know is who is the Blood Minister at the very beginning of the game and what happened to him

I think he was just some dude who looks like the wheelchair mob. Maybe he died somewhere or turned into a beast (the werewolf at the beginning?)

 

[TitusTroy]

Eurogamer just released an article detailing the Old Hunters lore...

What's going on in Bloodborne: The Old Hunters?...Man's inhumanity to man. The new lore explored and explained

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-12-02-bloodborne-whats-going-on-in-the-old-hunters

 

[Manu]

Eurogamer just released an article detailing the Old Hunters lore...

What's going on in Bloodborne: The Old Hunters?...Man's inhumanity to man. The new lore explored and explained

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-12-02-bloodborne-whats-going-on-in-the-old-hunters

"Further to this we gain the Old Hunter bone from the same gravestone in the Old Workshop that, in the Dream workshop, is used to access the nightmare. In the battle Maria will use quickening but - unlike every other character that uses it - she has no animation for using the bone. The only conclusion is that it is hers."

 

[Zocano]

Eurogamer just released an article detailing the Old Hunters lore...

What's going on in Bloodborne: The Old Hunters?...Man's inhumanity to man. The new lore explored and explained

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-12-02-bloodborne-whats-going-on-in-the-old-hunters

Seems pretty straightforward enough.

Only question I have, I guess, is what's up with the sun/clock symbolism. At first, it'd be easy to think it's the sun but once you get to the coast with Kos' body, it's pretty clear it's supposed to be a parallel to the moon instead. Is there any additional meaning behind it or is it just a fucked up moon-clock-thing because dreams and watchtower?

I'm kinda surprised there is no further exploration of Queen Yharnam and the Pthumerians but I guess there doesn't really need to be any since the base game covers that stuff well enough.

 

[Endo Punk]

So I was looking at Kos and noticed she has a human face. Sent a shiver down my spine.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Only question I have, I guess, is what's up with the sun/clock symbolism. At first, it'd be easy to think it's the sun but once you get to the coast with Kos' body, it's pretty clear it's supposed to be a parallel to the moon instead. Is there any additional meaning behind it or is it just a fucked up moon-clock-thing because dreams and watchtower?
.

The sun/moon thing in the nightmare is probably my biggest question mark in the DLC. My guess is it's some sort of visual for the curse, since it looks like some sort of portal/iris of an eyeball that acts as a connection to the waking world. When you slay the nightmare it disappears, so hunters can no longer be transported to the nightmare.The Orphan stares at it because it is obsessed with revenge, so it's peering out through it.

 

[Disaster Nebraska]

Yeah the chalices obfuscate the story and timeline even more than the nightmares do tbh. Yeah all we really learn about the powder kegs in the DLC as far as I noticed were that they came after a similar group known as the Oto workshop, and that one of Djura's companions is trapped in the hunter's nightmare protecting some beasties with his Gatling gun.

Oooooh you're right. I forgot about the mention of the "Oto Workshop". Interesting.

The little snippet of lore from the Gatling hunter, how he isn't slaughtering the beasts in the cave, and even how the monsters are the same beast-dudes and BSB from Old Yarnham is easily one of the best nods in the whole game, imo.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Oooooh you're right. I forgot about the mention of the "Oto Workshop". Interesting.

The little snippet of lore from the Gatling hunter, how he isn't slaughtering the beasts in the cave, and even how the monsters are the same beast-dudes and BSB from Old Yarnham is easily one of the best nods in the whole game, imo.

Yeah it's very cool. I like how they are all hidden in the cave at the end of Ludwig's blood river too. The BSB must be in heaven.

 

[avrophantasm]

The only thing i wanted to know is who is the Blood Minister at the very beginning of the game and what happened to him

Well, he was shown in the opening cinematic alive and well in Central Yharnam while the PC was out hunting beasts...since his specialty seems to be blood transfusion and he's in the know about how terrible the Hunter's Cycle can be, so I'm guessing he's a high-up member of the Church. Gehrman states:

The Healing Church, and the Blood Ministers who belong to it...were once guardians of the hunters, in the times of the hunter...Ludwig. They worked, and forged weapons, in their unique workshop. Today, most ministers don't recall the hunters.

So the Blood Ministers were eventually replaced by Ludwig as the guardian of and recruiter for hunters; our Blood Minister is probably one of the select few who still practice hunter induction. Although, in the Player's time, becoming a Hunter has a supernatural bent to it. Becoming a hunter means being tied to the Hunter's Dream and being able to travel between dream realms instead of being armed at a workshop. Now, becoming a Hunter of the Dream means becoming a servant of the Moon Presence.

Also, in Lovecraft's mythos, some Great Ones can take human form. Lovecraft's Nyarlathotep is active on Earth in the guise of a human, and is a malevolent deity. The Blood Minister might be a similar type of being; he does seem to really enjoy the prospect of causing us trouble. Like when he says "Whatever happens... You may think it all a mere bad dream..." and starts cackling. This implies he thinks that you're going to get the Yharnam Sunrise ending and become an Old Hunter destined for the Nightmare.

But he seems to leave room for you to save yourself. (Saying you only need to unravel the mystery of Yharnam to get what you want.) His dialogue does seem to imply that he's above it all. And the Healing Church does seem to employ denizens of the dream realms to work for them, like the Church Giants. Perhaps Blood Ministers joined up with the Church even though they weren't of this dimension.Or perhaps he is a deity of ill-will using the guise of a Blood Minister in order obtain more servants for the Moon Presence. (like how Nyarlathotep is a servant of Azathoth)

Also, Miyazaki didn't play videogames while growing up so it's a new passion for him; he read books and played table top games. He seems to be a fan of Arkham Horror, so the Blood Minister might have been designed to be have the role of Bloodborne's Dungeon Master. It would explain why the lore descriptions sometimes takes the piss out of you; the Minister likes making fun of the player.

 

[Bastables]

I think people turning into sharks vs people turning into werewolves is just a difference triggered by environment and is a case of lore being created to serve aesthetic design goals.

It'd be more in line with how the Old ones are so wildly different that they can't even breed within their species. Erbitas and the Moon presence for instance are so utterly different to each other they might has well be different species. Even with issues around being able to procreate and the issues of the survival of the race Moon presence is apparently ok with having Erbitas and margo etc killed.

So you end up with various beasts in Yharnam as their blood ministrations are based on what ever blood eventually malformed Lawrence's head (note the head is referred to the genesis of the church) into a beast shape verses the different corruptions that occur in Cainhurst and Byrgenwerth. Cainhurst apparently coming from a different source (queen) than the Lawrence blood that the church seems to be built on.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

Oh, I forgot there a story/lore/spoiler thread.

So what was the original sin that cursed the Hunters and created the Hunter's Nightmare? How was Kos, or rather her child, is related to the old hunters particularly Maria who is probably the host?

 

[Fancy Clown]

Oh, I forgot there a story/lore/spoiler thread.

So what was the original sin that cursed the Hunters and created the Hunter's Nightmare? How was Kos, or rather her child, is related to the old hunters particularly Maria who is probably the host?

Original sin is likely Byrgenworth scholars coming in and using the Hunters (Gherman and Maria) to kill and experiment on the fishy villagers, and then dissecting Kos's corpse and likely killing the Orphan. Kos/the Orphan then cursed all hunters to descend from the teachings of Gherman to end up in the Hunter's Nightmare when they become blood drunk or die.