Reizo Ryuu
Member
Well of course you are and we all very much know that, with you "understanding" speculation and data you have no access to when it suits you, but dismissing it when it doesn't.
Again, good day.
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[Bloomberg] ‘Grand Theft Auto’ Maker Rockstar Games Asks Workers to Return to Office Five Days a Week
- Thread starter Thick Thighs Save Lives
- Start date
- Game Dev
Again, good day.
Kacho
Gold Member
You have yet to make to make a coherent argument other than you don’t like that I’m not interested in other people’s WFH anecdotes. Ok, I got it.Well of course you are and we all very much know that, with you "understanding" speculation and data you have no access to when it suits you, but dismissing it when it doesn't.
Again, good day.
SkyHighTrees
Member
Come on, If you really think folk wont be distracted when wfh you dont know people.
Just today had a wfh coworker talking bout how It was sooo hard not just taking little nap when working next to their bed... As a joke ofc but you see that's on their mind.
Furthermore, culture gets in the way... Rockstar has a lot of different people from different countries and cultures, so while you americans might not reduce productivity wfh (doubt), people from other places might be less disciplined and Just not give a fuck. While in the office, Its work or work, probably.
Great decision, lets Make Gaming Great Again!
Just today had a wfh coworker talking bout how It was sooo hard not just taking little nap when working next to their bed... As a joke ofc but you see that's on their mind.
Furthermore, culture gets in the way... Rockstar has a lot of different people from different countries and cultures, so while you americans might not reduce productivity wfh (doubt), people from other places might be less disciplined and Just not give a fuck. While in the office, Its work or work, probably.
Great decision, lets Make Gaming Great Again!
Reizo Ryuu
Member
I've never made a statement about what I like or not, in fact I inquired to how you felt, but you do tend to stray from the post you are replying to in order to say something completely irrelevant, so that's what this one probably is as well.
Kacho
Gold Member
You’re only interested in talking in circles apparently.
Reizo Ryuu
Member
I'm fairly certain I asked some direct questions and you danced around them, even repeating some statement rockstar made when the subject wasn't even rockstar, and then I made a conclusion and you just started talking about rockstar again.
If this amounts to talking in circles to you, it would help to just make proper responses next time, or don't respond at all.
Good day.
For Rockstar I'd say it's more about privacy, all the previous leaks have come from either people working at home (the kid if the employer leaking shit for clout) or from apps designed for WFH like the slack leak where the hacker was able to recall all previous uploaded files.
GigaBowser
The bear of bad news
home rules barely even gets to eat at the office they starved me
SNPlayen
Member
It is a real stereotype. I know many people with no self control who get nothing done on their WFH days.
In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if the unproductivity of WFH people over last few years is a contributing factor to the fucked economy/ gaming industry layoffs
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Back to work people.
Also, doesn't it cost a lot of time and money commuting to work? Waking up early and getting dressed and taking a shower, prep time, driving, bussing, grid lock, car costs, eating out less, buying fewer clothes because you can slum in in sweatpants all day etc...
Ok, for all the pro-WFH people if you want to work from home you save a ton of money WFH. Knock $10k off your salary and you got a deal.
Also, doesn't it cost a lot of time and money commuting to work? Waking up early and getting dressed and taking a shower, prep time, driving, bussing, grid lock, car costs, eating out less, buying fewer clothes because you can slum in in sweatpants all day etc...
Ok, for all the pro-WFH people if you want to work from home you save a ton of money WFH. Knock $10k off your salary and you got a deal.
Oh look it's the anti-Union, anti-Workers Rights guy giving a biased angry mocking view again.
Jaybe
Member
It’s been clear with all the game delays the last few years that work-from-home is not conducive to developing video games. If it did work and everyone together on the team was more effective and efficient as an overall unit, then we wouldn’t have these delays, hell, maybe we would’ve seen schedules move up. But it is what it is. It works for some industries perhaps but not clearly not mid-to-large team video game development. I’m not sure why this is controversial to some.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
We have something to address this: It's called Firing them.
It was no different from when people also do not perform at the office
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
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NickFire
Member
Some people can work productively from home, some can’t. Some jobs can be done that way and some can’t be done as effectively or at all. I personally believe most people should be working at their place of employment. For game development in particular I think they should be in the office. Just doesn’t feel like game development has gotten better since COVID started IMO.
Bernardougf
Member
Divorce is not a disease my friend.. is salvation .... amen
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
WFH works best for companies, people and tasks that dont require a lot communication or team work. At my work, its hybrid, but guess what? Just about everyone in the supply chain department shows up to their desks because even though they sit in front of a PC most of the time, the other part of their job requires them to go back to the warehouse and chat with the manager about stock and shipping. Or, those warehouse supervisors get called to their office and chat about shit. How the fuck is a desk jobber like that supposed to do that remotely? He's going to teleport like Star Trek to and from the warehouse and shipping bays? Nope. Show up. Can that job be done by MS Teams calls, probably. But to be most effective, you got to be there in person to see the pallets yourself.
For other jobs like the boring tax guy who sits alone at his desk and never seems to talk to anyone except his manager. Ok fine. Maybe that guy can do all his stuff at home. His job has nothing to do with anyone else and has zero customer facing or meetings with anyone. He's a lone wolfer.
But most jobs arent.
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VanCityGamer
Member
Are we supposed to feel bad for them? Wow, talk about privileged.
Kacho
Gold Member
Yep. Those delay apology jpgs became a meme because of how common they were.
//DEVIL//
Member
fk that was good lolThat's why you are still a little chicken as opposed to a big chicken right now.
Bernardougf
Member
Things are going to start to change to pre-pandemic patterns ... work hard.. make good games... make money and keep your jobs... like everybody.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Yup.
And as most people said during covid WFH lockdowns, dont treat it as entitlement WFH forever. Once the crisis is over, companies will skew back to pre-covid. And a lot of companies did that with hybrid, or they went full force 5 days back. They just got to do it in a way so that you dont get massive whiners if they all said back to the office 5 days a week right away on Jan 1 2022.
Problem is a lot of WFH people assumed it would permanent. I know coworkers who moved 1.5 to 2 hours away from the office during covid taking advantage of prices and dirt cheap mortgage rates. Now they are called back to the office and moan and groan about the commute. Well, nobody told you to move. Most people were fearful of germs and being cautious, but then you got people trying to make some financial gains loading up a moving van. If they want to go balls deep moving assuming WFH would go on forever thats their problem. Not the company's problem.
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Aces High
Gold Member
If you need to put people in controlled environments in order for them to be productive, you hired the wrong people.
It's really that easy.
For me, this step is a sign of failed management.
They might see positive short-term effects, but in the long run they will end up exactly where they're are now including higher costs and minus the chance to hire international.
It's really that easy.
For me, this step is a sign of failed management.
They might see positive short-term effects, but in the long run they will end up exactly where they're are now including higher costs and minus the chance to hire international.
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
Well they have a huge project due in probably about 12-18 months which is going to come down to the wire. That said I think if the job allows it's good to offer at least hybrid working.
I enjoyed WFH home a lot during the pandemic. It saved me 2.5 hours a day commuting there and back which was wonderful and I was a lot happier for it. It saved me money, I was much more productive as it reduced my job to doing the actual job and not in pointless meetings or getting disturbed at my desk by people. End of the day it comes down to trust. If you're productive, working and not abusing it then the best employers should give the choice to do wfh/hybrid if the job allows it.
Once you become accustomed to home working it can be hard to be mandated to do full time in the office again. They tried to mandate it at my old place so I quit and never looked back.
I enjoyed WFH home a lot during the pandemic. It saved me 2.5 hours a day commuting there and back which was wonderful and I was a lot happier for it. It saved me money, I was much more productive as it reduced my job to doing the actual job and not in pointless meetings or getting disturbed at my desk by people. End of the day it comes down to trust. If you're productive, working and not abusing it then the best employers should give the choice to do wfh/hybrid if the job allows it.
Once you become accustomed to home working it can be hard to be mandated to do full time in the office again. They tried to mandate it at my old place so I quit and never looked back.
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Kenneth Haight
Gold Member
Maybe this will enable them to give us 60fps on RDR2 on next gen consoles now as a free patch.
Cyberpunkd
Member
You should IMO read the article till the end:
Even if it doesn’t release in 2025 - that’s ok, you are not hurting for games.
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kiphalfton
Member
Agreed.
Every time I have to go into the office I see coworkers talking to each for at least 1/4 of the shift. Not even work related stuff either. Or they go AWOL and you have no clue where they went. I've also gone to the bathroom to take a dump, and the person in the next stall is there when I get there, and there when I leave (probably fucking around on their phone).
Yes, so productive.
Let's not pretend like people are that much more productive while working in the office.
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TheShocker
Member
Nothing is wrong with me?Because only pronoun people work from home...
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Fair point. Some people at the office slack off.Agreed.
Every time I have to go into the office I see coworkers talking to each for at least 1/4 of the shift. Not even work related stuff either. Or they go AWOL and you have no clue where they went. I've also gone to the bathroom to take a dump, and the person in the next stall is there when I get there, and there when I leave (probably fucking around on their phone).
Yes, so productive.
Let's not pretend like people are that much more productive while working in the office.
I also knew people WFH (not covid related, but they worked from home as a sales rep in another part of the country). Very hard to get hold of him. This was before MS Teams and Zoom meetings so you could only try calling or emailing him hoping he picks up.
Guy had a side job building patios and doing landscaping. No wonder he wouldnt get back to me till the next day. People found out after he quit, as the handful of close coworkers told everyone after he left. You dont have office workers doing side jobs for half the day.
There's a lot more opportunity for people out of sight to slack off. At the office, you get people surfing the net or dong water cooler chat, but you cant avoid people coming to your desk or asking you to join an improptu meeting. You are there in person and cant avoid doing your job if someone pulls you in. People also cant goof around taking 2 hour lunches or else everyone notices. WFH, someone can take a 4 hour lunch.
WFH, someone can be grocery shopping and will email you if they feel like it after dinner.
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FunkMiller
Member
If I don't know that at least four marriages have broken down and at minimum three suicide attempts were made during the production of a video game, I just can't
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
Blessed. Fuck em and avoid that shit at all cost!
I haven't step into a physical work place since 2015 and I fucking regret nothing. I made the most fucking money I've ever made working from home in IT, saved the most money ( spend nothing on gas or car insurance or car payments) less stress in the morning, able to eat a healthy balanced diet while actually sticking to it.....less stress lol
Your mental health is really important. Like..MOST work is stressful, why add on to it? If the company I work for asked me to suddenly go to an office, I'd put in that 2 weeks and start applying elsewhere. I've worked for many IT companies, all from home for almost a decade, anyone trying to tell folks that this isn't normal, also didn't even know this was a fucking thing until the pandemic in the first place lol
My friends father works in IT and does networking stuff and he has been working from home literally for decades and makes well over 100k easily. Fuck I look like making less GOING into a place for more stress? fuck out of here lol
Don't even get me started on how easy it is to work somewhere else. Just apply. No worrying about relocating, where you kids go to school, where you wife or husband works, where you parents are etc.
? And?
The internet made that "commute" fucking instantaneous. How does "productivity" increase when car accident happens and they out of work for weeks? How does it help when they are late cause a traffic jam? How does it help when the building must be evacuated based on a fire...that never happened lol
Give me an example of productivity increasing cause someone is forced to go to a physical place...
The reality is, STRESS does not make someone work better, if anything it fucking hinders what they do. If someone is more calm, less stressed, they are more likely to be able to do a better job.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7889069/
Keep in mind, I'm not saying that if you love to go into some Office Salty, that you are less productive, for all I know you fucking love that place, but respect that is how YOU FUCKING FEEL about going into that place, thus you are less stressed.
I can't just imagine that majority love waking up to drive hours in traffic and deal with all the shit they have to deal with on a daily basis that can just be done at home...
I will never regret working from home as its opened so many doors for me its not even funny. I'm a manager now at a IT company because of all those doors opened and I get to do that all in my pajamas, eating Fruity Pebbles while watching Dragon Ball Z and reading the lolz that go on in NeoGaf while I work.
I'm not sure why I'd ever trade the most money I've ever made in my life and most chill work from home set up, to oh.....stay in traffic and increase my bills on gas, cars and insurance lol I'm literally out here leveling up in RPGs and watching anime while teaching new hires while eating a McRib, but shiiiiiiit you think I want to trade that for less money, less time and more stress?
mystech
Member
Very interesting to see all the anti-remote work comments. In my own case, myself and my team went remote during Covid and never looked back. Why waste all that time commuting back and forth? When it comes to productivity, I’d much rather be in my own environment where I can control the ambient noise, distractions, interruptions and overall stress in the atmosphere. Working from home never stopped us from getting things done and tools like Trello and Slack make it easy to see who’s working on what and what needs to be prioritized.
Bad employees are bad employees whether they are in the office or not. Being at home doesn’t equal laziness. Managers need to learn to trust their employees just as I had to learn to trust the employees who were under me. Who cares if they watch Netflix in the background as long as the work gets done?!
Now of course there are jobs that would be heavily handicapped with remote work and maybe that’s the case here… Either way, working from home can work and in many cases DOES work as long as you have employees who are disciplined enough to do the work and a good communication system in place.
Bad employees are bad employees whether they are in the office or not. Being at home doesn’t equal laziness. Managers need to learn to trust their employees just as I had to learn to trust the employees who were under me. Who cares if they watch Netflix in the background as long as the work gets done?!
Now of course there are jobs that would be heavily handicapped with remote work and maybe that’s the case here… Either way, working from home can work and in many cases DOES work as long as you have employees who are disciplined enough to do the work and a good communication system in place.
ZiggyPop1991
Member
Literally! My job started a hybrid method because of this exact reason. Funny enough. People slacked in the office and there weeent enough higher ups to check them, lol. Falling asleep. On their phone. Zoned out. Then they went hybrid or fully remote with no break. Boom. Everyone’s happy again.
Do not listen to the people who keep saying “they aren’t working” if that was the case people would get fired. Funny enough most people chose hybrid and came in when projects need more cooperation they rather would do in person and not over teams.
Hydroxy
Member
Bad news. Can't believe people in here defending this. Everyone knows how crunched game developers are. Atleast working from home, they're close to their family and save on traveling time and expenses. I do not support working from office when the same thing can be done from home. At best make it hybrid but 5 days is too much.
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I worked for one of the big tech places during those years and in 2 years during that period we had by far the highest productivity the particular org had ever achieved. I don't necessarily consider all of that positive (people were actively doing too much, leading to not so healthy outcomes) but the increase in productivity was a fact.
blakdecaf
Member
I’ve found out this kinda comment comes from people who would absolutely *love* to WFH, but their job isn’t an office based one so they wouldn’t be able to anyway.
If you’re good at your job and completely committed to the project you’re on, WFH shouldn’t be an issue.
CERTAIN jobs and I say that very compactly, can have you working from home.
Game Development is not one of them. Imagine having to check everyone's work and you're just there sending Teams/Zoom links like "Hey can I see your work/what have you done/okay let's improve this" whilst at work you can have that person walk around the office to see in person how the work is going, to give feedback, maybe connect with the next person you're working with and bounce ideas. They will probably see everyone's work before they even finish having a couple Teams/Zoom meetings.
Now, if you're just an office worker, that's different. That is a Work From Home type of job as you're assigned your own task that doesn't connect with others in the office.
Also, let's not ignore the fact that a lot of people were showing themselves playing games whilst in Teams/Zoom meetings or when they had work to do. Those are the kinds of people that ruined it.
Game Development is not one of them. Imagine having to check everyone's work and you're just there sending Teams/Zoom links like "Hey can I see your work/what have you done/okay let's improve this" whilst at work you can have that person walk around the office to see in person how the work is going, to give feedback, maybe connect with the next person you're working with and bounce ideas. They will probably see everyone's work before they even finish having a couple Teams/Zoom meetings.
Now, if you're just an office worker, that's different. That is a Work From Home type of job as you're assigned your own task that doesn't connect with others in the office.
Also, let's not ignore the fact that a lot of people were showing themselves playing games whilst in Teams/Zoom meetings or when they had work to do. Those are the kinds of people that ruined it.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Almost as if 3 hours less of commute would not free more time on your scheduled. There is a lot of envy here, but it works as for some people then life is sweeter when someone else is more miserable than before
.Wow, another bootlicker. There's a lot of companies which promised the WFH policies would remain in place even after covid and even used it as a selling point during hiring. NoT tHe CoMpAnY's PrObLeM.
AutumnLeaves
Member
Depends. Sitting in traffic is no fun.
Umbral
Member
I must have missed all of those amazing games. Different strokes, I guess.
Regarding work-from-home, I’m not a fan. It can work for some roles but there are too many anecdotes and I’m sure the companies have their own data that shows productivity and quality drop. If you’ve been paying attention you’ve likely noticed a stark drop in the quality of most things since the work-from-home trend started, especially in software. I know of many, many people who slack off and do a half-assed job. It takes a certain kind of person to maintain work ethic and quality standards with minimal or no oversight.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
RTO doesn’t improve company value, but does make employees miserable: Study
Data is consistent with bosses using RTO to reassert control and scapegoat workers.
arstechnica.com
Randall365
Member
Quite a few working in coffee or sandwich shops near offices I suspect.
SJRB
Gold Member
Fuck off with that nonsense.
Return to the office typically revolves around two elements: Employers wanting to exert trivial control over their employees' lives by forcing them to come into the office, and having massive amounts of vacant real estate that is quickly dwindling in value since most of it goes on unused.
Neither are in the benefit of the employee. I can understand one, maybe two days but 5 days mandatory office work? Get the fuck outta here.
Return to the office typically revolves around two elements: Employers wanting to exert trivial control over their employees' lives by forcing them to come into the office, and having massive amounts of vacant real estate that is quickly dwindling in value since most of it goes on unused.
Neither are in the benefit of the employee. I can understand one, maybe two days but 5 days mandatory office work? Get the fuck outta here.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
My company isn’t tech and covid years were record sales for us.
It meant nothing as to employee productivity. Retailers amped up on purchase orders because people were hoarding our company trouble keeping up for two years.
We could had literally had zero account managers and field reps and the orders would still come in wiping out our inventory.
Because inventory was so low we even had the account managers scale back on wheeling and dealing for weekly promotions because we made more money just selling products at regular price as we had no inventory half the time and we all could tell we were going to blow away the annual target set half a year earlier by the summer.
COVID gave a free boost to any company or industry that got sales and usage boosts from people at home or supply hoarding. The real fallout is post COVID and how a company shakes out when those easy COVID sales dried up.
If anyone wants to see the poster child of COVID highs and lows, read up on Peloton from pre COVID to post COVID. Might the biggest rollercoaster ride in recent history.
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James Sawyer Ford
Member
Probably so
That same like of thinking would result in accountants working on offshore oil rigs
And it’s stupid. Each job is different.
Umbral
Member
Did it for quite a while. Hated every minute of it.