Bloomberg Rumor: Xbox 720 unveiling at E3 2013, launching in the same year

What does it matter if Sony lets them have a two year headstart? There's no rules written in stone where generations can't be disjointed. If Sony released PS4 this year to start the new gen then PS5 in 2013, would that signal the start of another new gen? Of course not.

The PS3 will be deader than the PSP in North America by 2014. The 360 will be deader than the Xbox in Japan by then. Sony only had the luxury of extending the PS2's life as long as they did because it was far and away the best selling console. The 360 and PS3 aren't going to sell 15 million units a year for the next 4 years.

If the Wii U is even a modest generational shift, MS and Sony run the risk of losing HD marketshare and several franchises if 3rd parties feel that those franchises would be better served by their new controller or the hardware boost. Even the Dreamcast got Soul Calibur, SF3, and Code Veronica. The nightmare scenario is that in the 12-24 months that Nintendo is on the market alone, they create a Wii Sports/Wii Fit type killer app for the tablet controller that makes people start climbing over themselves to buy one. Those kinds of cultural phenomena are obviously not easy, but we're talking two years of unchecked experimentation.
 
The PS3 will be deader than the PSP in North America by 2014. The 360 will be deader than the Xbox in Japan by then. Sony only had the luxury of extending the PS2's life as long as they did because it was far and away the best selling console. The 360 and PS3 aren't going to sell 15 million units a year for the next 4 years.

If the Wii U is even a modest generational shift, MS and Sony run the risk of losing HD marketshare and several franchises if 3rd parties feel that those franchises would be better served by their new controller or the hardware boost. Even the Dreamcast got Soul Calibur, SF3, and Code Veronica. The nightmare scenario is that in the 12-24 months that Nintendo is on the market alone, they create a Wii Sports/Wii Fit type killer app for the tablet controller that makes people start climbing over themselves to buy one. Those kinds of cultural phenomena are obviously not easy, but we're talking two years of unchecked experimentation.

None of that really addresses my point/question. You went off on a tangent.
 
The PS3 will be deader than the PSP in North America by 2014. The 360 will be deader than the Xbox in Japan by then. Sony only had the luxury of extending the PS2's life as long as they did because it was far and away the best selling console. The 360 and PS3 aren't going to sell 15 million units a year for the next 4 years.

If the Wii U is even a modest generational shift, MS and Sony run the risk of losing HD marketshare and several franchises if 3rd parties feel that those franchises would be better served by their new controller or the hardware boost. Even the Dreamcast got Soul Calibur, SF3, and Code Veronica. The nightmare scenario is that in the 12-24 months that Nintendo is on the market alone, they create a Wii Sports/Wii Fit type killer app for the tablet controller that makes people start climbing over themselves to buy one. Those kinds of cultural phenomena are obviously not easy, but we're talking two years of unchecked experimentation.

I'm still not convinced that wasn't some kind of fluke, or a one time type deal at least.
 
Questionable move by Microsoft. All Nintendo need is a mainline, hardcore hit on the Wii U to take off and capture a fuckload of that user base. They'll particularly be in a tough position if Nintendo's third party titles are consistently better, and their open online approach provides a better, more flexible experience for games like CoD.

The 360 was the first hardcore system out in the market, and despite the short time gap between it and the PS3, it captured a lot of the market. With a potential two year gap for the Wii U, that thing could fucking dominate.

And honestly, what do Microsoft have to fight it? The best IP's in the world vs the last bastion of Microsoft, Halo and Forza.
 
Questionable move by Microsoft. All Nintendo need is a mainline, hardcore hit on the Wii U to take off and capture a fuckload of that user base. They'll particularly be in a tough position if Nintendo's third party titles are consistently better, and their open online approach provides a better, more flexible experience for games like CoD.


That's a lot of 'ifs'.
 
Well, when toppling the hardcore dominance that Microsoft has right now, there's always bound to be. However I still think by Microsoft doing this they put themselves in a more vulnerable position than they ought to be in.

And there's always the wildcard - Sony.
 
late last night I posted what I thought was an interesting scenario into the mix, further up the page. Nobody commented on it lol. I'm starting to think that all of my drunk posting over the past 6 years has me on everyone's ignore list!

Sorry, I agree with what you're saying, but I don't think the itunes model is going to make as much of an impact until maybe next gen. There's also the fact that there's a significant difference between replaying games and replaying songs. I can guarantee you that I'm still going to want to to listen to a big chunk of my current music collection 10 years from now. Most people only replay their games once or twice at most and then never again.

How long has facebook been on top though? It doesn't look like stopping anytime soon either. I don't think any of the services offered on consoles have come close to that level but once entrenched it can be hard to get people to switch over.

I agree, but like you said, consoles aren't really there yet.

I'm still not convinced that wasn't some kind of fluke, or a one time type deal at least.

Well from my estimation, something along those lines has happened 3 times now - once with the wii, once with kinect, and once (to a much lesser degree) with the DS. Capturing the casual by the neck via disruption really isn't an easy feat but it's not a complete abnormality in the video game industry either.
 
Well from my estimation, something along those lines has happened 3 times now - once with the wii, once with kinect, and once (to a much lesser degree) with the DS. Capturing the casual by the neck via disruption really isn't an easy feat but it's not a complete abnormality in the video game industry either.

True.
 
Well from my estimation, something along those lines has happened 3 times now - once with the wii, once with kinect, and once (to a much lesser degree) with the DS. Capturing the casual by the neck via disruption really isn't an easy feat but it's not a complete abnormality in the video game industry either.

I don't put Kinect's impact anywhere near the Wii. I think it's being overstated. It wouldn't even exist if not for the Wii. The 'flukey, struck gold' stuff only really applies to the Wii, in my opinion.
 
Just uncovered the set plan for E3 this year

Microsoft E3 Conference 2012

Show new COD
Mattrick comes out and acts all '360 is awesome bitches, Kinect is even better this year'
50 minutes of Kinect stuff
3 minutes of Forza
3 minutes of Halo

C'MON MICROSOFT! Start next gen already and show me something new!
 
I don't put Kinect's impact anywhere near the Wii. I think it's being overstated. It wouldn't even exist if not for the Wii. The 'flukey, struck gold' stuff only really applies to the Wii, in my opinion.

It's not a fad or a fluke. Neither Kinect, nor the Wii.
 
Great opportunity for Nintendo, but they better not fuck it up by just letting developers release games on the system simply as a "WiiU" version of PS3 and 360 games. They won't convince a lot of people to "upgrade" when there's effectively no upgrade anyway.


Shame we'll have to wait for the next xbox for another year though.
 
Great opportunity for Nintendo, but they better not fuck it up by just letting developers release games on the system simply as a "WiiU" version of PS3 and 360 games. They won't convince a lot of people to "upgrade" when there's effectively no upgrade anyway.


Shame we'll have to wait for the next xbox for another year though.

Actually if I were Nintendo I would take this as an indication that Microsoft may be willing to trade 6 months to a year for the ability to copy / better whatever it is Nintendo still haven't told us. I'd also be suspicious that this might not be true, and that they could try and spoil the party in June. I hope Nintendo are as paranoid as me and pack E3 with wall to wall awesome.

Personally I'm happy if there's only one new console launching per year. They're expensive.
 
None of that really addresses my point/question. You went off on a tangent.

You can't simply ignore what your competitors do in the tech sector for years.

You posted

What does it matter if Sony lets them have a two year headstart?

The Wii U could sell anywhere from 6-10 million units in two years alone in one territory, anywhere from 15-40 million in two years alone WW. In this scenario, Sony releases a more powerful console with a sparse library, and is then attempting to convince developers that they should (for some reason) either ditch the Wii U altogether, or somehow give their new console preferential treatment in software support. How well did that conversation work for the PS3 versus the 360, which only had a 10 million unit lead? How did that work out for the Xbox, which price matched the PS2 despite being nearly a generation ahead in raw power? How is that working out for the Vita right now?

MS/Sony are already taking a risk by betting big that the PS3 and 360's swan song Christmas releases (Led by BLOPS2/RE6/AC3/GOW4/Halo4/Bioshock3/Borderlands2/GTA5) will mute excitement over Nintendo's new hardware. Why? Because we don't know how powerful Nintendo's hw is. We don't know what franchises Nintendo is trying to lock up with either exclusive features or as true exclusives (see: MH4). We don't know what they have in works for the controller. But they are a credible competitor who just sold 100 million units of profitable hardware and consistently one of the top software houses in the world. 2014 is just bonkers.

Apple would not attempt to go 5 years without releasing a new iPhone even if the current model was profitable, because they would be outdated in the first two years, and their consumers would begin upgrading laterally to their Android competitors instead of waiting for their next product.

There's no rules written in stone where generations can't be disjointed. If Sony released PS4 this year to start the new gen then PS5 in 2013, would that signal the start of another new gen? Of course not.

I don't even know what you're trying to say here. Are you arguing that the Wii U isn't a new generation?

I don't put Kinect's impact anywhere near the Wii. I think it's being overstated. It wouldn't even exist if not for the Wii. The 'flukey, struck gold' stuff only really applies to the Wii, in my opinion.

Nearly 20 million units and several multi-million seller software titles later, Kinect is not a fluke.
 
When talking about the WiiU stealing customers from Sony or MS everyone seems to gloss over the online factor. This isn't 2001, online is very important to core users. Without a real online service I don't see gamers jumping ship to the WiiU.
 
I'm thinking MS is waiting to get Win 8 launched and "settled in", and that there will be a lot of integration (especially media) between the new Win 8 tablets and the new Xbox.
Win 8 will not launch until fall of this year, no one has seen any prototypes for new Win 8 tablets so they will take a while to come out, and Sony is on the ropes financially.
I am thinking MS doesn't see the Wii-U as fatal competition. The 360 survived the Wii's success. A new Sony console would be a more fatal competition.
 
When talking about the WiiU stealing customers from Sony or MS everyone seems to gloss over the online factor. This isn't 2001, online is very important to core users. Without a real online service I don't see gamers jumping ship to the WiiU.

Yep, and online seems to me as the first real aspect of consoles that binds costumers to a brand name, apart from first party franchises off course.

If people have their whole friend community, personal data, ... located on one console-specific network, it'll be hard to make them migrate to another.

MS really has an advantage here compared to Sony and especially Nintendo. The only weak spot I see is that it's not free, and that's where competitors can "one up" Microsoft.
 
Sho_Nuff82 said:
There is no realistic scenario where Sony gives Nintendo two Christmas' uninterrupted in Japan, especially with the Vita being trounced by the 3DS over there. PS3 will launch fall 2013 as well.
I'd say Sony's last several Japanese launches make the case that it doesn't really matter whether they make it before the year-end bump. You can be hot in March if people want you (PS2), not hot at the end of the year if people want something else (PS3, Vita), or stuck with too little supply to take advantage of the biggest time of year (PSP).
 
When talking about the WiiU stealing customers from Sony or MS everyone seems to gloss over the online factor. This isn't 2001, online is very important to core users. Without a real online service I don't see gamers jumping ship to the WiiU.

Apparently they've worked directly with 3rd parties to build a central network with a unified gamertag, but nobody knows how it's going to turn out yet.

Besides, online didn't hurt the Wii sales one bit.

I still believe Nintendo is happy not directly competing with Sony and Microsoft and will instead focus on being the "stop gap" system each successive generation, offering upgraded graphics over the recent generation and new ways to play as opposed to full out graphical powerhouses.
 
Apparently they've worked directly with 3rd parties to build a central network with a unified gamertag, but nobody knows how it's going to turn out yet.

Besides, online didn't hurt the Wii sales one bit.

The Wii was a big disrupter of the market though, while I get the idea that the WiiU is meant to be a more conventional console, and therefore has to compare favorably to the other consoles and their features.
 
The more I read our threads, the less I think MS and Sony should release in 2013.
Those two will need some BIG hits if they want to kickstart next-gen and I don't think 3rd parties will have their big IP up and running on next-gen engines 20 months from now.
Just as I don't think 1st parties will have revolutionnary experiences to expose.

I'd rather see devs go experimental in 2013 and try and bring out games made on a budget but yet done so efficiently they look, feel and play AAA but with new stories, maybe try things things as regards to marketing and how they are priced.

I'm a big supporter of episodic content, and a steady flow of likeable IPs on PS360 would keep me playing on those all through 2013.

A 6-8 months games drought can be quenched with MP stuff.
And MS/Sony know hardcores will buy WiiUs anyway, so why try and mask it's where the enthousiasm is gonna go for a time.


I agree that 2013 will be more about Kinect software and exploring its potential. The XB360 is going to have plenty of wind in its sails from price cuts and Halo 4. Kinect has created a zone of immunity in 2013 for the XB360.

The technological silhoutte will be much sleeker for a 2014 launched XB720. Epic has a good track record and I'm guessing their next game will be exclusive to the XB720. Tim Sweeney has clearly stated he would like to see a 10x increase in performance and this is far more plausible in 2014. It will also make it harder for Apple to disrupt the console cyle.
 
I was all for kinect after purchasing one last month. I have plenty of room and really enjoy sports season 2 and gunstringer but what really pissed me off was when I asked my son to step in to play co-op on gunstringer.
What a clusterf**f that was, needless to say after 10 minutes of stand there, step back, lift your hand higher, lower your hand, my son walked off and has never asked to play kinect again. Why didn't I buy a vita!
I will be buying him wiiu when it arrives and if Nintendo can manage to satisfy both of our gaming tastes, I won't be standing in the xboxnext queue come launch.
MS need to be really careful with what they're doing.
 
Apparently they've worked directly with 3rd parties to build a central network with a unified gamertag, but nobody knows how it's going to turn out yet.

Besides, online didn't hurt the Wii sales one bit.

I still believe Nintendo is happy not directly competing with Sony and Microsoft and will instead focus on being the "stop gap" system each successive generation, offering upgraded graphics over the recent generation and new ways to play as opposed to full out graphical powerhouses.

Does the 3DS have a unified gamertag? Voice chat supported? Online didn't hurt the Wii because it was selling to a new casual crowd that didn't care. I'm talking about the core users, the ones logging hundred of hours in multiplayer games. The WiiU will be a system they get and play but without a quality online network it will never be their main system.

As we have seen this gen, publishers chase the core audience with their top tier games.
 
]Does the 3DS have a unified gamertag? Voice chat supported?[/B] Online didn't hurt the Wii because it was selling to a new casual crowd that didn't care. I'm talking about the core users, the ones logging hundred of hours in multiplayer games. The WiiU will be a system they get and play but without a quality online network it will never be their main system.

Do you read posts? I just said we don't know much about it but, FOR THE WII U, they've been talking to 3rd parties directly about what they specifically want involved.

It has nothing to do with the 3DS, so I'm not sure why you brought it up.
 
Sorry, I agree with what you're saying, but I don't think the itunes model is going to make as much of an impact until maybe next gen. There's also the fact that there's a significant difference between replaying games and replaying songs. I can guarantee you that I'm still going to want to to listen to a big chunk of my current music collection 10 years from now. Most people only replay their games once or twice at most and then never again.

thanks for taking the time to read it. Yeah, I'm not saying that people WILL be as attached to their digital purchases as they are with movies/music. Just trying to further an already good discussion. :)
 
I just read inbetween the lines.

This year, we will build on that Xbox 360 momentum. With "Halo 4," "Forza Horizon," "Fable: The Journey," and other great Kinect games on the way, our 2012 Xbox lineup is our strongest ever.

Absolutely disgraceful, I really hope Nintendo capitalise on this.
 
I just read inbetween the lines.



Absolutely disgraceful, I really hope Nintendo capitalise on this.

It's disgraceful that they're making Kinect games period (one of those games is Crimson Dragon), or that one or more of their first party games will have Kinect support? MS is also publishing or pushing a ton of exclusive XBLA stuff this year with zero Kinect support.
 
From a technology standpoint, if MS doesn't launch in 12 then 14 seems like a better year than 13. The memory improvements aren't going to be solid enough to bet a console launch.
This is most likely. When I said memory chips will double in 2013, I was mostly replying to the comment that there will be no important advancements that year.

However a console launching in 2013 would not be able to take advantage of them unless they start shipping in high yields earlier than expected. Realistically, a 2014 launch would be needed to use them.



Obviously this brings up an interesting question. Would MS or Sony be willing to wait until 2014 to launch their next gen console? That would be giving Nintendo a 2 year head start, and their other opponent a 1 year head start (assuming both don't wait until 2014).

It's an interesting dilemma. Launching 'late' can be risky. They have to consider competitor install base, dev support, and pricing issues. And historically that is more important than HW performance gains. However I'd argue this may be one of the few times the gains might actually be worth it - particularly if the plan is to have a system being around for a long time like this gen. Typically the bottleneck hit first by all the consoles is RAM. If one of the manufacturers is able to release a console with literally twice the amount of RAM of its nearest competitor (and this would be done at basically a zero long-term cost increase) ... the dynamic becomes quite different than what we've seen in the past. This would allow obviously improved graphics fidelity, and the ability to stay relevant versus PC games for far longer.

hmmmmm
 
I'm cool with Kinect, but I'm thinking it should be more 50/50 or 60/40 between Hardcore to Kinect titles. Right now it's 90/10. It's being forced so hard that it's resulted in the death of Lionhead and Rare.
 
The Wii U could sell anywhere from 6-10 million units in two years alone in one territory, anywhere from 15-40 million in two years alone WW. In this scenario, Sony releases a more powerful console with a sparse library, and is then attempting to convince developers that they should (for some reason) either ditch the Wii U altogether, or somehow give their new console preferential treatment in software support. How well did that conversation work for the PS3 versus the 360, which only had a 10 million unit lead? How did that work out for the Xbox, which price matched the PS2 despite being nearly a generation ahead in raw power? How is that working out for the Vita right now?
The thing is, all of those cases were quite different from each other, and from now.

PS3 had serious (and unexpected) pricing obstacles. Xbox was the 1st console by MS which brings in a host of obstacles ... and was launched in an era where the console generations were much shorter. Because of that, the launch dates between Xbox and 360 was produced one of the shortest-lived consoles ever. It simply had no chance to catch up, particularly since it was against the highest selling system of all time. And Vita ... I don't think we need to go into how that's not a similar situation.

I'm not necessarily stating that a late launch will be a great idea, but I think the situation is different enough that we can't necessarily look at history. If say Sony or MS waits until 2014, they can double their RAM at little long-term cost. Doubling RAM will make a pronounced difference in fidelity and really there isn't much convincing that needs to be done regarding devs. From a feature standpoint, it's likely all the GPU's will use a similar shader model. So when a dev makes a multiplatform (including PC) game ... basically the main differences will be what 'settings' are used. Yes that's an oversimplification, but just like now what we'll see is the console revs having dramatically lower texture detail, etc. versus the PC version. Now if one of the consoles happens to have double (or more) RAM, there really isn't much work to be done. The assets will already be there from the PC rev.

When you then consider the liklihood that all the manufacturers will want the next gen to go at least as long as this one ... two things come out of it. A 'late' entrant has plenty of time to catch up ... and if they have a notable RAM delta, they can stay relevant versus PC for far longer. Like it or not, consoles have a much longer-term strategy then they used to.
 
Actually if I were Nintendo I would take this as an indication that Microsoft may be willing to trade 6 months to a year for the ability to copy / better whatever it is Nintendo still haven't told us. I'd also be suspicious that this might not be true, and that they could try and spoil the party in June. I hope Nintendo are as paranoid as me and pack E3 with wall to wall awesome.

What's the *order* of the conferences this year, or is that not locked down yet? MS are usually first, aren't they?

Just curious if there's scope for a bit of hasty re-planning.
 
I'm cool with Kinect, but I'm thinking it should be more 50/50 or 60/40 between Hardcore to Kinect titles. Right now it's 90/10. It's being forced so hard that it's resulted in the death of Lionhead and Rare.

I really think you should look at some of the stuff that MS is publishing on XBLA this year. Hint: most of it's not for Kinect. Alan Wake is just the first example.

Raistlin said:

Hardware power has never mattered for overall marketshare though. The only console to be "Dreamcasted" by superior hw was, well, the Dreamcast. I think it's amazing that after the PS3, we still have to suffer through an entire year of the Vita getting violated by the 3DS before people understand. Doubling the RAM from '13 to '14 does what exactly? Higher resolution? More AA? Slightly larger levels that take even more level designers to fill with even more HD content? Does that make Square think twice about making DQ XI a Wii U exclusive if it's the only next-gen console on the market, with the 360 dead in Japan and the PS3 dead in North America?
 
I know of their XBLA lineup, do we have concrete release dates for any of them? Non hostile, I'm just genuinely curious, especially about Class3.
 
Always knew they would launch in 2013, so this news isn't really surprising. IMO both Sony and MS will launch late next year.

Regarding Nintendo's chance to capitalize on this year jump, that all depends on their ability to secure exclusive 3rd party content rather than up ports from current Gen games. Honestly this doesn't seem likely IMO.

It's being forced so hard that it's resulted in the death of Lionhead and Rare.

Can't speak for Rare but Peter himself revealed that he had to beg for lionhead's Kinect games to be made, it wasn't forced on that studio in the least.

*wonders how long it'll take for another poster to jump on that FUD train*
 
Sure, they're putting out games like Steel Battallion, but that's the only Kinect retail title that's looking relatively appealing to the core gamer, but one game really isn't cutting it. Especially as it's third party developed and not looking particularly great.

Also, 'right now' being 2012. I had no problem with 2010 as it seemed more appropriate with what I'd expect from Microsoft. A really good balance of exclusives (Halo, AW, ME2), XBLA titles and Kinect stuff.

2011 was remarkably worse, with everything coming in Q4, and the only two core exclusives being Forza and Gears.

2012 is slightly better, with a newly designed Forza and Halo 4. However you have to ask, was a Lionhead Kinect game really necessary? They already have enough Kinect titles as it is, so why didn't they let Lionhead do something they wanted to do for the core, even with hybrid Kinect functionality. The same could be said for Crytek's Ryse. Surely an exclusive 'core' game from them would've gone down much better for Microsoft's core audience, Kinect will do fine off the backs of games like Star Wars and Kinect Sports, so why go overkill at targeting it at the core?

You cannot deny that compared to Nintendo and Sony, they're doing a pretty poor job for the core right now, and I honestly don't think you can deny that Kinect had a deleterious effect on LH/R either.
 
makes sense... they did it in 2005... and they're doing it in 2013.


I got to hand it to Microsoft... they milked this system for 8 years before announcing a new one

10 year life cycle for the 360 confirmed.


with this said... i expect the next Xbox to be super powerful so it can last another 10 years.
 
I just read inbetween the lines.



Absolutely disgraceful, I really hope Nintendo capitalise on this.

I know. How DARE they try and reach out to a growing userbase of new players to keep the industry afloat?
 
The thing is, network preferences can change. It takes awhile, but it does happen. You don't see people on friendster anymore, and when was the last time anyone talked about myspace? I do believe though that if nintendo's future network isn't serviceable, they're going to have a real tough road ahead of them, but if wii u hits it big, people will gladly switch over as the console itself becomes increasingly popular. What I'm saying is people aren't going to pass on it just because it doesn't have live or psn. It's not about what's not available, but rather the exact opposite.

Sounds like you guys are getting into the same general argument I had in another "Next-gen" thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=34551414&highlight=#post34551414
 
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