BertramCooper
Banned
By this time next year, both Mad Men and Breaking Bad will be gone.
So depressing.
So depressing.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Breaking Bad - Season 5 interim thread - the series concludes Summer 2013 on AMC
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
- Status
After re watching season 5.
One thought, if you still "root" for walter you're insane.
He was willing to get Jesse run over by a train for a extra few gallons of methylamine. That's fucked up. Then he says "we almost died trying to get the methylamine" when Jesse wanted out.
Dude killed Mike cause he called him out on his bullshit. Then goes "oops" when he realized he didn't have to go full retard as he could have gotten his list from Lydia.
Put a hit out on the lawyer in jail just to tidy things up.
Played Marie like a fiddle first chance he got.
While Jesse was torn up over the dead kid, Walt's just whistling along inside the cooking room in the house.
But no, he's grandpa glaucoma glasses and pork pie hat...he's not so bad.
One thought, if you still "root" for walter you're insane.
He was willing to get Jesse run over by a train for a extra few gallons of methylamine. That's fucked up. Then he says "we almost died trying to get the methylamine" when Jesse wanted out.
Dude killed Mike cause he called him out on his bullshit. Then goes "oops" when he realized he didn't have to go full retard as he could have gotten his list from Lydia.
Put a hit out on the lawyer in jail just to tidy things up.
Played Marie like a fiddle first chance he got.
While Jesse was torn up over the dead kid, Walt's just whistling along inside the cooking room in the house.
But no, he's grandpa glaucoma glasses and pork pie hat...he's not so bad.
Well i still have to watch MadMen.
Glad i can marathon it start to finish.
Besides, better to end well than to be dragged out into uncanny territory of Walt becoming a kingpin in South America, Hank becoming the president and whatever absurdity they would've came up with by season 13.
S1-2 Skyler was annoying because Walt was still on the cusp of reasonability for doing what he was doing and she was just another wrench in the gears.
S3 Skyler's tactic of trying to make Walt hate her is such a bullshit move. There's a reason why Walt Jr blames her for the separation. She comes off as completely unreasonable to everyone except the audience. Walt still wasn't comic book evil yet so she comes off worse than Walt.
S4-5 Skyler becomes complicit and holier than thou in order to spare Walt Jr from realizing that his dad is in the drug trade. By doing so she subjects both her children to the possibility that blowback will reach them under the assumption walt will die soon from his cancer.
So yea, apparently it makes me a misogynist to realize that all these characters suck as people outside of hank and marie and even they have their faults.
S3 Skyler's tactic of trying to make Walt hate her is such a bullshit move. There's a reason why Walt Jr blames her for the separation. She comes off as completely unreasonable to everyone except the audience. Walt still wasn't comic book evil yet so she comes off worse than Walt.
S4-5 Skyler becomes complicit and holier than thou in order to spare Walt Jr from realizing that his dad is in the drug trade. By doing so she subjects both her children to the possibility that blowback will reach them under the assumption walt will die soon from his cancer.
So yea, apparently it makes me a misogynist to realize that all these characters suck as people outside of hank and marie and even they have their faults.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Or "Anna Gunn is a poor actress." She's got the third biggest acting load on the show, behind Walt and Jesse, and she's great.
Yeah, I was talking here about the irrational hate and not blaming it on mysogyny, but on her role in the story-- but the replies make it pretty clear that it *is* mysogyny is some cases.
metalslimer
Member
Jesus the second Walt let his ego turn Gretchen's money down, he was never reasonable. He has put his family in danger this whole time under the veil of cancer for his ego. He was still a murderer no matter who he killed. To say Walt was more reasonable than Skyler at any point in this show is unbelievable. It reeks of misogyny that anyone could think that her actions were even close to the same level.
Yea I'm finding it hard to root for him anymore. At first you wanted to see him succeed but now it's just hard to watch especially because he's doing everything wrong. Fring was calculated and careful. Look at when he and Walt first met. It took so much for Walt to get through to him because Fring trusted his instincts (at first). Now Walt is just showing his face about town. Showing his face every chance he gets just because he wants to be known. Pride is a terrible thing.
Even seeing how is actions are affecting those around him is interesting to watch. I mean he has Saul on edge for christs sake. I hope Hank nails him.
And as strong as the narrative is at times, I do find myself questioning his motives a lot. Like when he shot Mike, I had to go back through the story and see why that made sense. His character is getting a little muddy. Glad this is ending soon.
metalslimer
Member
Walt's character makes perfect sense actually. The only thing that held his ego back during season 3,4 was Gus and with him out the way he felt invincible. Walt has wanted Mike dead for a long time. All he needed was a little excuse to kill him after he got his own distribution network.
RoninChaos
Member
Because that's exactly what I said. C'mon, son. You should go back and read what I said again instead of lumping me into a group you've obviously had this argument with in the past. Or is it just one of those things where you saw what I wrote and you immediately are writing off anything I may have to say because it's easier to label me or anyone else a misogynist rather than actually understand that people may have different reasons for disliking Skylar that don't jibe with what you feel like. That doesn't make them wrong, and it certainly doesn't mean that it's okay to label everyone who doesn't feel the way you do a misogynist. It's stupidly offensive.
But if it's easier for you to just label people that way to make yourself feel better about your position on the issue, go ahead and keep fucking that chicken.
RoninChaos
Member
Sorry, but that's bullshit. It isn't a strawman, people are getting called misogynists left and right because they might not like a character on a TV show. I said I didn't like her and immediately got lumped in with this group you guys have apparently been having this conversation with for the last six months. It's fucking ridiculous. And Mamba, lets be real, what's happened in this thread is the same thing that happens in PoliGaf when a conservative comes in. People label that person an idiot automatically without even considering their viewpoints.
I think it says something about the show, the writing of that character, and her acting ability that there isn't a lot more people who are in her corner rather than Walt's. There's almost a lack of empathy when it comes to that character that, it seems, most people here are labeling as misogynistic. Rather, I think a lot of people do not have empathy for her because of her actions. I think a lot of this was born from the fact that in the beginning of the show, we see Walt trying to find an alternate route in the broken medical system to get help and make sure his family is going to be okay. He was basically trying to figure out a way to not leave his family in financial ruin to pay for his treatment. While I don't sympathize with Walt as he is now, I certainly did when he was sick in the first season, as I've been in a similar situation and had some really crushing thoughts on what would be left for my family after I was gone. I'm still saddled with over 200k in medical bills currently that I'll never be able to pay off.
The show could have, especially in the 4th and 5th season, given Skylar a turn like Jesse. Jesse is the moral center of the show and he's a junky, he's killed people and he's done horrible shit too. People empathize with what Walt has done to him but not so with Skylar, and I think that's due to the writing and the acting ability of the respective people playing their parts.
RoninChaos
Member
.double post, sorry.
Exclamation-One
Member
lol
I'm very, very excited to see how Hank's revelation comes in to play at the family dinner. Each Season shows the immediate aftermath of the season prior.
It's the same reason why I always liked the heel more when I watched wrestling, or why I always play dark side in Bioware RPGs. A well-written villain is always infinitely more interesting to me.
metalslimer
Member
Who the hell is labeling everyone that hates her a misogynist? It seems like the people who actually seem to have some valid reasons for disliking the character get upset when someone labels the people that call her a cunt misogynistic like its some evil word that should not be spoken.
We're introduced to Walt when he's attempting suicide by cop. He has never been reasonable. Logical, conniving, sure, but reasonable? Nope.
Season 1 - Season 2 Sky Sky : Found out her husband has cancer, they're broke, she's preggo, Walt doesn't want treatment. But she's annoying because she's worried about him spending money they don't have, she's annoying cause Walt wants to die instead of sticking around for their unborn kid and their other son. Sooo annoying.
Season 3 Skysky : She finds out he's a drug dealer. Walt JR calls her a bitch because she's protecting him from finding out his father is a piece of shit drug dealer. Oh god...so unreasonable.
Season 4 Skysky: Yup, holier than thou while trying to reign in the murdering future kingpin. God help her is she doesn't want her son finding out she fell into a downward spiral at the behest of Heisenberg.
Season 5 : She's dead inside at this point. You know what subjected the kids to blowback? Asshole started making meth and killing off drug dealers.
But yea, she's totally unreasonable, selfish, cunty, and ultimately just a horrible character that should be hated.....for trying to not submit her kids to a bunch of she had no control over.
The only point I thought she was stupid, was when she flipped the coin and pussied out.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Ronin, sorry but you lost me as soon as you said Walt was trying to find an alternative. That excuse failed for Walt the second Gretchen offered to help him out.
I agree, less people are sympathetic to her for reasons other than mysogyny, but some replies here (not yours, I don't think) seemed to be pretty much exactly that. Mainly people who claim she's irrational/bitchy in her responses to his absesnces and supposed drug use. The IFT thing I can understand people being a little less sympathtic about, since a) that's a very clear line for some people and b) the show doesn't exactly spell it out that Skyler does it to try to force Walt into going along with the divorce, and some people seem to read it as spite instead.
I agree, less people are sympathetic to her for reasons other than mysogyny, but some replies here (not yours, I don't think) seemed to be pretty much exactly that. Mainly people who claim she's irrational/bitchy in her responses to his absesnces and supposed drug use. The IFT thing I can understand people being a little less sympathtic about, since a) that's a very clear line for some people and b) the show doesn't exactly spell it out that Skyler does it to try to force Walt into going along with the divorce, and some people seem to read it as spite instead.
ToyMachine228
Member
I've said this before, but anyone who is trying to classify the characters of Breaking Bad into black and white is missing the entire point. They're all grey. They've all done good and bad things. You can say well this person did this bad thing for X or for Y, but it doesn't matter.
In the case of Walt, you start with a guy who has been dealt a shit hand. He's essentially a scientific genius who opted to teach after his fallout with Gray Matter, and found himself making barely enough to pay the bills and with under appreciative students. Clearly he was meant for bigger things, but kept on trucking, happy to teach and live with his family.
His diagnosis was a realization that he essentially had nothing. He'd worked his whole life for nothing. His initial reason for getting into the meth business was to make money to leave his family after his inevitable death. Once getting in, obviously things became more and more complicated and he began to be consumed by pride. Pride in the fact that he'd finally found something that he was successful at. This pushed him to do some of the horrible things that he has done. But every once in a while, you still see fumbling old Walt. He's still the same guy. Season 5 is the result of Walt losing everything that is dear to him. He truly has nothing left to live for. Old Walt isn't needed or wanted anymore. Skylar rejects him and his kids are sort of taken away from him. His "work" is the only thing he has left and he goes all in.
I don't think he's a character you should really be sympathizing with all that much, but anyone with three shreds of understanding for the human psyche and emotions should be able to see how Walt got to where he is. Has he done some terrible things that are essentially unforgivable? Yes. But I also don't think we're dealing with a character who's "pure evil" here.
Skylar got involved with good intentions too once she found out. But as we see with Ted's current physical state, good intentions don't make up for it. Bad things still happen. Walt and family would be out of the game and safe somewhere if she didn't use the money to pay off the IRS. Are these things that she's done as bad as things Walt, or even Jesse has done? Nope. But no matter how good the intentions you start with, when you mess with this stuff, it yields bad results.
The characters are GRAY GOD DAMN IT. Not black and white. The end.
In the case of Walt, you start with a guy who has been dealt a shit hand. He's essentially a scientific genius who opted to teach after his fallout with Gray Matter, and found himself making barely enough to pay the bills and with under appreciative students. Clearly he was meant for bigger things, but kept on trucking, happy to teach and live with his family.
His diagnosis was a realization that he essentially had nothing. He'd worked his whole life for nothing. His initial reason for getting into the meth business was to make money to leave his family after his inevitable death. Once getting in, obviously things became more and more complicated and he began to be consumed by pride. Pride in the fact that he'd finally found something that he was successful at. This pushed him to do some of the horrible things that he has done. But every once in a while, you still see fumbling old Walt. He's still the same guy. Season 5 is the result of Walt losing everything that is dear to him. He truly has nothing left to live for. Old Walt isn't needed or wanted anymore. Skylar rejects him and his kids are sort of taken away from him. His "work" is the only thing he has left and he goes all in.
I don't think he's a character you should really be sympathizing with all that much, but anyone with three shreds of understanding for the human psyche and emotions should be able to see how Walt got to where he is. Has he done some terrible things that are essentially unforgivable? Yes. But I also don't think we're dealing with a character who's "pure evil" here.
Skylar got involved with good intentions too once she found out. But as we see with Ted's current physical state, good intentions don't make up for it. Bad things still happen. Walt and family would be out of the game and safe somewhere if she didn't use the money to pay off the IRS. Are these things that she's done as bad as things Walt, or even Jesse has done? Nope. But no matter how good the intentions you start with, when you mess with this stuff, it yields bad results.
The characters are GRAY GOD DAMN IT. Not black and white. The end.
Nameless
Member
In the most basic of terms I root Walt the same way I root for Michael Corleone, Stringer Bell, Daniel Plainview, Ben Linus, Ric Flair etc..Why even as a child I wanted Magneto to crush the X-Men. Morality, peace, order...these things are boring. Do-gooders are typically paper thin empty characters, with very little if anything interesting about them. Villains, anti-heroes, good people who find themselves committing horrible acts almost always yield more fascinating stories and character studies.
And to simply dismiss Walter White as evil is to ignore the layers of nuance and complexity oozing from pore of the character.
And to simply dismiss Walter White as evil is to ignore the layers of nuance and complexity oozing from pore of the character.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
I think it's silly to surprised when someone reads that and forms a conclusion about your personal moral thought process.
I'm reading The Passage books right now and they're gripping and completely moving works that deal directly with characters of moral clarity working against seemingly insurmountable evil and yet it has somehow managed to be the exact opposite of boring.
I can think of zillions of other "do-gooder" characters in literature and film that are phenomenal and complex. Mario Incandenza, Don Gately, etc, just talking about one single work.
You can have grey areas (like Don) and still be complex and still choose to do the right thing.
Walt is a fascinating character and still a hefty bag with legs filled with runny shit.
metalslimer
Member
Walt left the moral grey area a long time ago
Yep. Walt wasn't walt in season 5. He was acting the part of 'heisenberg'. He had grown insanely arrogant and I couldn't 'root' for him since the season 4 finale.
RoninChaos
Member
Very well said. When Walt was whistling after the death in season 5, it was chilling. Then to see him say after "this is all I have" coupled with it being THE thing he's good at, I almost felt bad for him. Bryan Cranston sold the fuck out of this character 110%. The fact that after all that's happened, all he's done, I can feel a pang of sympathy for him... Man, what a great performance.
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
Fuck that. I hope Walt poisons some more kids and Jaime Lannister pushes more kids out of windows. I don't always have to apply my real world sense of morality to a TV show. I enjoy rooting for heroes and villains, and Walt happens to be the show's best character by far. So yeah, I'm rooting for him.
Nameless
Member
We did this last season BB, and it's still just as silly to believe one must apply the same moral standards to fiction that they apply to reality and react as such.
Willkiller
Banned
I love a bad ending, I want to see everything turn to total hell
The writers must do it though, when trying to provoke a reaction.
Aw yeah. Everyone in this show is fucked
especially Ted
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Exactly. They're guiding the story in a certain direction.
As per usual, MSZ has the hottest take:
[MILD SPOILERS]
http://www.vulture.com/2013/08/tv-review-breaking-bad.html
Spieler Eins
Member
^This.
Not to mention that Walter always was an asshole, killing Gus just gave him the final ego boost to go full out.
Anytime he wanted to go back being ,,happy family man'' was blatantly forced. Early 3rd season has already shown that he cared less about family and more about being meth king, when he got super pissed at Jesse for copying his product.
You're goddman-- it's tired.
I'll always be rooting for Walt, good or bad, we've been on this ride with him since the beginning and I won't let go of that either.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I think Walt is going down but I also don't think it will happen in a way taht will make walt haters happy. It won't be him getting owned or destroyed and all that. I think he'll accept fate and go down on his own terms doing something subdecent in the process. And he will still have left lots of money for his family and all that. Not bittersweet ending because that's too nice, but also not completely void of any upside.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
This.
Watching Walt is like watching an very impressive train wreck. I look forward to how horrible it all ends up.
I'm sure everyone else caught it as well, but what makes it even sadder and ironic is the fact his granddaughter will never know the truth and always think he just abandoned her, which was the exact same thing Lydia feared about her child when Mike came to kill her.
Willkiller
Banned
One of my favourite moments of the series is one of the cold openings in season 5, 'Say my name'. Look close enough and you can see the ego radiating around him and his arrogance oozing out of every pore in his face.
I fucking love Heisenberg, I want moments in these final eight where he attempts the same with Hank. Those scenes potentially could be the best in the series. Walt coldly explaining to Hank how he played him in the biggest case of his life gives me shivers even thinking about it.
Of course, I know how it must end, but I hope Heisenberg has a few 'Youre goddamn right' moments left.
I fucking love Heisenberg, I want moments in these final eight where he attempts the same with Hank. Those scenes potentially could be the best in the series. Walt coldly explaining to Hank how he played him in the biggest case of his life gives me shivers even thinking about it.
Of course, I know how it must end, but I hope Heisenberg has a few 'Youre goddamn right' moments left.
Skyler isnt annoying because the actress sucks. Its more of a combination of being written annoyingly and her acting good.
Its like joffrey from GoT, i hate the dude IRL because his acting is great.
Same goes for Skyler.
Walt is the main antagonist in this show. Everything he does goes against the better choice.
Its like joffrey from GoT, i hate the dude IRL because his acting is great.
Same goes for Skyler.
Walt is the main antagonist in this show. Everything he does goes against the better choice.
I never made that connection :O
crisdecuba
Member
Someone had written a fake bit of dialogue between Walt and Hank that mimics the confrontation between him and skyler earlier in Season 5. Anyone got a link to that or the screencap of it?
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Rewatched all of 5.1 this weekend. God damn so amazing.
Especially (FINALLY) seeing it in HD.
Mike is like a goddamned sculpture all season.
I feel like they had Walt kill Mike as like a final wake up call to viewers who were still sympathetic to him. He's done all these fucked up things already, but you can at least rationalize them to a certain degree, they all served some sort of purpose. Either self preservation, protecting Jesse, not getting caught , etc... There was no rationalization or purpose for killing Mike. He would have never talked, never gotten caught, and never bothered Walt again. It was pure anger and hubris that caused him to do it. For a lot of viewers, I imagine it was the moment where they said "oh yeah, he really is a son of a bitch now, fuck him.".
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Even though I'm 100000% on Team Walt Burn In Hell Monster, they did not play that scene as Walt being irredeemable. There's a lot of shock and disbelief in his reactions and even some guilt right at the end. Mike is obviously right in telling him to fuck himself, but it's not as cavalierly evil as some of the other reactions and responses he's had this season.
Man, i stumbled upon the "Scene" from Crawl space from S4, while browsing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWfK5JyD2bA
Fucking goosebumps. Every time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWfK5JyD2bA
Fucking goosebumps. Every time.
Just puddles' fanfic.
I think that may be my favourite scene of the entire five seasons.
- Status