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[Black Mamba]

Nice vid.

The whole "won" part seems misinterpreted by both polar sides. As Vince said, Walt simplied died on his own terms after all the shitty decisions and consequences that have passed. Redemption for something far too late.

Right, I agree with this mostly.

Like I said, I was just commenting on the guys claiming a huge win for Walt.

Walt was able to undo some of the mess he created. And he seemed to be at peace with himself at the end.

Can you say Walt achieved a vicotry tonight? Of course. But in the context of the entire show, a victory would have been Walt being rich, alive (for now), and with his family. He didn't have that.

 

[.GqueB.]

He was in that room in "To'hajiilee" when they were discussing the hit on Jesse.

Yea that was the only part I was hazy on. But yea, still felt too perfect for me.

 

[Game-Biz]

Right before Jesse gets into the car, that look Walt and Jesse gave each other. A final goodbye, both knowing that after everything they've been though, it is now finally over.

 

[Veelk]

I do agree with the people saying he won in his own mind. He did what he wanted and was happy doing it. He murdered his family along with hundreds of lives, but he clearly doesn't care about that enough to regret his actions, so it's not a sufficient loss. His family hates him, he will go down as one of the most despised criminals, he knows he is a monster...but he was happy. He's no longer lying to himself about being a good person or doing it for his family or anything. And when faced with this realization, he saw that it was worth it. So....he won.

 

[zma1013]

I'm not taking about the method I'm taking about how convenient it all was. They didn't check his car for some odd reason even after he parked it kind of weird. Then everyone is standing perfectly to get shot (even the guy outside). This was also a place he's never been to (right?) but he was able to make the concoction perfectly to cover a room he's never actually seen. Then you have every single one of them gathered in one room for no real reason. Then the two people who were important to the narrative are left alive. It was too perfect for me. I couldn't buy it.

Walt was there before when he was doing the whole prison killing deal and when he was there, everyone was in that little room talking it out. It's like their meeting room or whatever. As for them not checking the trunk, why would they check the trunk? They thought he was coming there to cook and make more money.

 

[Limit]

Walt's going to kill Jesse. Book it.

will ban if this doesn't come to pass

Waiting for this promise to be fulfilled.

 

[jonezer4]

Where did he get the M60? I was hoping that would be covered since episode one. That's hardly an insignificant item to acquire.

It was covered in episode one, so... your wish was granted.

 

[Jack Remington]

Jesus, you guys are like the haters going on about refs after LeBron was already kissing the Finals trophy. You didn't get the outcome you wanted, but it's better to just accept it. It's over.

 

[toastyToast]

I'm not taking about the method I'm taking about how convenient it all was. They didn't check his car for some odd reason even after he parked it kind of weird. Then everyone is standing perfectly to get shot (even the guy outside). This was also a place he's never been to (right?) but he was able to make the concoction perfectly to cover a room he's never actually seen. Then you have every single one of them gathered in one room for no real reason. Then the two people who were important to the narrative are left alive. It was too perfect for me. I couldn't buy it.

He had been there before hasn't he? Didn't he organise the jailhouse hits with them or was that somewhere else?

Either way, if they weren't on good terms with him evidenced by the fact that they wanted to kill him immediately, I doubt they'd take too kindly to him not following instructions. He could had a plain old car bomb in there for all they knew let alone a god damn sentry

 

[FantasticMrFoxdie]

Damn now thats a cool reference shot.

LOVED THIS

Yup.

 

[FunkyMunkey]

Right before Jesse gets into the car, that look Walt and Jesse gave each other. A final goodbye, both knowing that after everything they've been though, it is now finally over.

Yeah, that scene. Damn.

 

[sappyday]

Right before Jesse gets into the car, that look Walt and Jesse gave each other. A final goodbye, both knowing that after everything they've been though, it is now finally over.

This scene reminds me of when Walter and Jesse first confront each other in the Pilot. Which just makes me want to cry after seeing it.

Edit: I see I wasn't the only one.

 

[Black Mamba]

I do agree with the people saying he won in his own mind. He did what he wanted and was happy doing it. He murdered his family along with hundreds of lives, but he clearly doesn't care about that enough to regret his actions, so it's not a sufficient loss. His family hates him, he will go down as one of the most despised criminals, he knows he is a monster...but he was happy. He's no longer lying to himself about being a good person or doing it for his family or anything. And when faced with this realization, he saw that it was worth it. So....he won.

I think the way he looked at Walter Jr. refutes that he doesn't regret his actions. Or that he had to see Skyler and give her Hank's coordinates. Or see Holly.

Tonight Walt was finally honest with himself and I think that he truly did regret losing his family but accepted it was his fault for it.

 

[kehs]

LOVED THIS

The crystalline blood splatter seals it.

 

[Vipershark]

Anyone notice how Marie wasn't wearing bright purple? Probably the only time during the entire series.

Speaking of which, Vince said to take special note of any scenes where she wasn't wearing purple.

Is there some sort of theme we've missed?

 

[terrene]

If complete absolution is earned by killing Nazis, then it's a rather low bar.

Sure. I mean I just killed three Nazis this morning before breakfast.

 

[Erico]

Overall, a nice and satisfying ending. I'm going to miss this show and all the characters.

I think all this #Team stuff is ridiculous. People choose a character and then hope and pray that the plot is driven constantly in favor of said character, despite contradictions in the internal narrative logic that may result.

What happened to just enjoying and analyzing the narrative? We're watching a finely crafted story unfold, not a live sporting event. You can appreciate a good story without feeling you need to choose a winning horse to hitch your wagon to.

 

[Card Boy]

Wish i had this gif around before the finale started.

 

[terrene]

Wait, Walt... "won"?

I would have to be in my early twenties or below to come to that particular interpretation of events.

He died 10 seconds before his time, left his family millions, and all of his enemies are dead. That's not losing.

I'm pretty sure Walt's family would give back all the money in the world if they could go back to the way things were before.

Walt "won" an imaginary game of his own invention

No disagreement there, though

 

[lednerg]

Overall, a nice and satisfying ending. I'm going to miss this show and all the characters.

I think all this #Team stuff is ridiculous. People choose a character and then hope and pray that the plot is driven constantly in favor of said character, despite contradictions in the internal narrative logic that may result.

What happened to just enjoying and analyzing the narrative? We're watching a finely crafted story unfold, not a live sporting event. You can appreciate a good story without feeling you need to choose a winning horse to hitch your wagon to.

It's just another reason why Twilight sucks.

 

[DarkNtity]

Walter White, the meth'ing fucking self made boss. What a goddamn phenomenal show.

 

[Jack Remington]

The problem with the walt-crazy's like remington is that as long as there is some kind of 3-dimensionality or ambiguity about walt, any slight shred of humanity that they can grab onto, they'll claim that they've 'won' over the people calling him a monster.

Because walt gave the family money and rescued jesse, they'll ignore that he ruined their lives and put jesse in that hellhole, along with everything else he did.

If Walt had broken down and cried the entire episode, this would have been proof to them that walt sincerely regrets his actions and is 'human'

If walt had just left everyone in his family alone, that would have been an acknowledgement of his past mistakes and a noble effort to not cause any more damage to his family than he already has.

There literally isn't anything Walt can do that can't be painted as Walt having 'won' in some way to these people and thus isn't the monster that nasty amirox proclaimed him to be.

All that tells me is that the Amir0xes and Maureen Ryans of the world overreached. If anything is a victory for people like me, then their position was never tenable to begin with.

People like Amir0x and Maureen Ryan were trying to make a multicolored show black and white. They were trying to make a smart show dumb. They were trying to turn chess into checkers. And they failed hard. No need to join their embarrassment.

 

[antipode]

I'm perplexed how Walt got shot. Walt (and Jesse) were well below the line of fire as they scuffled onto the ground. I guess it could've been a ricocheted bullet but I'm not convinced. since I am no ballistics expert, I'll have to buy what happened.

Spoiler

Will have to watch again to confirm, but I thought there was a quick cut where it showed the M60's rounds hitting the Nazi's own storeroom of guns => maybe the ammunition in that room hit Walt?

 

[border]

The writer from Garden State even specifically told us Heisenberg died in that episode.

Who gives a shit what Zach Braff thinks about Breaking Bad?

 

[big_z]

good finale with the exception of the last song choice. last weeks preview for this episode had great music but they fucked up here.

Anyway I imagine jesse is going to keep on driving right into need for speed and walt is just alive enough that he can be put into witness protection aka malcolm in the middle.

 

[civilstrife]

Fuck this thread title.

Strongly hints at the (mostly happy) ending.

So terrible for those who have to wait to see the finale.

 

[PedroPanache]

The saddest scene in the finale is the one where Walt watches, from afar, over his son going about his business. There's a melancholy to it that is quite profound and just breaks your heart, in that the damage he has done to the son who had idolised for much of his life will never right itself. No amount of money will correct that. He destroyed his entire family, cursed them to a life of infamy that they'll never outlive that even Pyrrhus would be proud of Walter. It was all for nothing after all.

 

[.GqueB.]

He had been there before hasn't he? Didn't he organise the jailhouse hits with them or was that somewhere else?

Either way, if they weren't on good terms with him evidenced by the fact that they wanted to kill him immediately, I doubt they'd take too kindly to him not following instructions. He could had a plain old car bomb in there for all they knew let alone a god damn sentry

Walt was there before when he was doing the whole prison killing deal and when he was there, everyone was in that little room talking it out. It's like their meeting room or whatever. As for them not checking the trunk, why would they check the trunk? They thought he was coming there to cook and make more money.

That doesn't make sense.

They were clearly suspicious of him. They frisked him and checked for a wire then conveniently stopped there for no reason. They stopped being suspicious? And none of this speaks to everything else I said. I like the episode but that part just felt like beautifully shot fan fiction. Everyone dies except the two people the viewers want to see killed. And trust me I bought right into both of those deaths. Todd being strangled was the highlight for me.

I just didn't buy how they got to that point.

 

[Crimsonclaw111]

Fuck this thread title.

Strongly hints at the (mostly happy) ending.

So terrible for those who have to wait to see the finale.

You could have just avoided Off Topic for a few days.

 

[RocketSurgeryTV]

The saddest scene in the finale is the one where Walt watches from afar at his son going about his business. There's a melancholy to it that is quite profound and just breaks your heart, in that the damage he has done to the son who had idolised for much of his life will never right itself. No amount of money will correct that. He destroyed his entire family, cursed them to a life of infamy that they'll never outlive that even Pyrrhus would be proud of Walter. It was all for nothing after all.

I cringed during that scene, because as Walt is walking away, that shot was taking far to long to cut. I had all kinds of things racing through my mind, like the Nazis planted a bomb or something.

 

[kehs]

Fuck this thread title.

Strongly hints at the (mostly happy) ending.

So terrible for those who have to wait to see the finale.

Beauty isn't defined as happy.

 

[TrumanBurbank]

You could have just avoided Off Topic for a few days.

Dude is just unhappy that he can't watch the show.

I wish they had used the Junip - Line of Fire song for the finale. I didn't like the Baby Blue song choice.

 

[Gawge]

I thought that was pretty much as perfect as it could get.

The amount of emotion portrayed in that one look from Jesse was amazing. So glad they didn't force a hug, or emotional conversation etc...

I did sort of hope that "Vince Gilligan" didn't come up, and see a scene of Jesse and maybe Skyler too being happy or something in the future. But, that's probably just because I never wanted it to end. They did it right.

 

[Crimsonclaw111]

That doesn't make sense.

They were clearly suspicious of him. They frisked him and checked for a wire then conveniently stopped there for no reason. They stopped being suspicious? And none of this speaks to everything else I said. I like the episode but that part just felt like beautifully shot fan fiction. Everyone dies except the two people the viewers want to see killed. And trust me I bought right into both of those deaths. Todd being strangled was the highlight for me.

I just didn't buy how they got to that point.

My guess is that the Nazis were looking for an explicit sort of detonator or something. When they couldn't find one, they ignored searching anything else because they assumed they were just going to execute Walt.

 

[Tookay]

Fuck this thread title.

Strongly hints at the (mostly happy) ending.

So terrible for those who have to wait to see the finale.

It doesn't imply anything, only that the ending is fitting.

Which it is.

 

[Levi]

Fuckers talking about teams winning like this a football thread.

Only winners here were the viewers, getting a superb final episode to a show that was consistently above average and occasionally really great.

 

[RocketSurgeryTV]

Dude is just unhappy that he can't watch the show.

I wish they had used the Junip - Line of Fire song for the finale. I didn't like the Baby Blue song choice.

Read the lyrics for the song. It's so very fitting.

http://www.metrolyrics.com/baby-blue-lyrics-badfinger.html

 

[Duallusion]

He died 10 seconds before his time, left his family millions, and all of his enemies are dead. That's not losing.

That's Heisenberg's "win". Walt lost a lot for that. Not to mention all of the victims, directly or indirectly affected by his actions.

 

[Jack Remington]

Is it too early to talk about all-time rankings? This final season probably lifts BB over The Wire for me. Not sure if it's the greatest, but it's top 3.

 

[zma1013]

That doesn't make sense.

They were clearly suspicious of him. They frisked him and checked for a wire then conveniently stopped there for no reason. They stopped being suspicious? And none of this speaks to everything else I said. I like the episode but that part just felt like beautifully shot fan fiction. Everyone dies except the two people the viewers want to see killed. And trust me I bought right into both of those deaths. Todd being strangled was the highlight for me.

I just didn't buy how they got to that point.

I just don't see why they would check his trunk. They can be suspicious of him and not check the trunk. They frisk him and check for a wire but what exactly would they have ever thought would have been in the trunk? Certainly not a remote controlled light machine gun on a swivel. These guys aren't geniuses either, they just roll around haphazardly killing everyone in sight. I agree that they obviously left the 2 main Nazi guys alive so we could see Walt and Jesse kill them but I don't understand why that's a problem, it could happen and at least with Todd, it made sense since he bent over to stop Walt and Jess from their fake fight.

 

[ramyeon]

Can't relate to those that didn't like the choice of Baby Blue in the last scene at all. I think it was a fantastic choice. Made the scene even better.

 

[RocketSurgeryTV]

That's Heisenberg's "win". Walt lost a lot for that. Not to mention all of the victims, directly or indirectly affected by his actions.

That's how I see it. I posted about this earlier.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=84087105#post84087105

 

[SuicideUZI]

Walt won in some ways and lost in others. Not everything has to be reduced to a binary manner.

I agree with this, I don't think its as black and white as "Walt won" Sure Walt accomplished what he wanted to in that particular situation, but that is definitely not the way he wanted things to play out overall. I'm pretty sure he would have been much happier if Hank never caught on and he lived out the rest of his days in peace with his family with 90 million in hiding for them, but when all said and done he took care of business and came to terms with everything and was finally able to admit to himself that it wasn't all just for his family. So in that particular situation things ended about as good for him as he could have expected, but it was far from what he had in mind when he started down this path.

Overall I am pretty satisfied with the ending, I am glad all the loose ends were tied up and it came to a real conclusion.

I kinda feel like Jesse got off the hook tho. he's made out to be a victim that is always trying to do the right thing and then turns all emo when people he cares about gets hurt, but never once takes any responsibility for any of it himself even till the very end. Kinda wish he would have manned up at some point and admitted that he's just as much to blame for bad things happening to the innocent people around him, he chose the life of a drug dealer and everything that comes with it. Plus he ended up being a rat, so I didn't have much respect left for Jesse by the end of the show, I wouldn't have felt bad if he died

 

[Veelk]

All that tells me is that the Amir0xes and Maureen Ryans of the world overreached. If anything is a victory for people like me, then their position was never tenable to begin with.

People like Amir0x and Maureen Ryan were trying to make a multicolored show black and white. They were trying to make a smart show dumb. They were trying to turn chess into checkers. And they failed hard. No need to join their embarrassment.

That's my point, you make your argument unassailable because you base it around twisting any scene to your point of view. By this logic, I could argue that Walter's primary motivation was some animal instinct, or that it was a message from god, or anything. You can't prove me wrong because I can take any scene in the series and find some interpretation that supports it, and then say all evidence that contradicts this argument is irrelevent. Your argument isn't complex. You just found an interpretation that you like and refuse to accept any evidence contrary to that because you interpret certain scenes as supporting your viewpoint. You're argument isn't complex. It's as simple as it gets.

I read Amir0x's arguements. I don't think he didn't acknowledge Walt's better characteristics, he just considered them outweighed to the point of irrelevancy by his actions. If he overly emphasized Walt's monstrosity, it was likely only in response to guys like you, who are seem almost literally blind to any perspective but their own, given this really bizarre victory dance you are doing right now. But no, the arguement that walt is a monster has not been overturned. In my eyes, it's been emphasized more than ever in this episode. Walt's no longer deluding himself. He realizes that he did it for selfish reasons. And he is okay with it. He is okay with his long trail of destruction, the hundreds he's killed. Anyone who can be okay with killing that many people just so they can feel good is pretty safe to call a monster, whether he occasionally does nice things or not.

 

[Tookay]

Right before Jesse gets into the car, that look Walt and Jesse gave each other. A final goodbye, both knowing that after everything they've been though, it is now finally over.

Damn, this gif is really getting to me.

 

[PedroPanache]

I actually exhaled in relief as Jesse broke through that padlocked gate. It was such a release, and it felt so good to see him get away,

Spoiler

And serve consecutive life sentences for all the shit he's done when he's picked up by the police

It was a beautiful finale, not as highly charged as Ozymandias, but to be fair, nothing could really top the death of Hank and the destruction of the White family unit. At times it felt a little mechanical, following the finale formula of ticking the boxes that need to be ticked, those brief acknowledgments to characters that had become ultimately peripheral to Walt's journey, but even so, it delivered and ended in a way that gave Walt a sense of victory. Even more beautiful was the fact that the victory was Walt's last self delusion. His last lie to himself.

 

[Tookay]

I kinda feel like Jesse got off the hook tho. he's made out to be a victim that is always trying to do the right thing and then turns all emo when people he cares about gets hurt, but never once takes any responsibility for any of it himself even till the very end. Kinda wish he would have manned up at some point and admitted that he's just as much to blame for bad things happening to the innocent people around him, he chose the life of a drug dealer and everything that comes with it. Plus he ended up being a rat, so I didn't have much respect left for Jesse by the end of the show, I wouldn't have felt bad if he died

The concept behind a rat was created by hardened criminals to keep their underlings in line. Why would any normal person apply such a descriptor?

 

[Black Mamba]

That's how I see it. I posted about this earlier.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=84087105#post84087105

This Walter White-Heisenberg situation feels a lot like Jekyll and Hyde. Was that last scene him officially flipping that switch and breaking bad? Is Walt gone?

That’s such an interesting question. I can tell you the way I saw it: The way I see it is that Heisenberg is gone. He keeps trying to kind of evoke the ghost of Heisenberg, the thrill of feeling powerful, and it’s not there. It’s gone. It died when Hank died. It’s just not there. It died when he saw baby Holly. And then in the end, what is happening in my mind, and obviously we’re leaving it up to the audience to some extent, in my mind, what’s happening is he’s becoming something new. And it’s not Walter White; It’s not Heisenberg; it’s something new. And that’s what I think Dave Porter picked up on when he had that great variation on the Breaking Bad theme at the end. Dave and I both agree he’s sort of, in this episode, he’s becoming what he’s going to become, and we’ll find out what that is in the next episode.

http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/09/23/breaking-bad-granite-state-writer/

Heisenberg is dead, never showed up tonight. Heisenberg would have been much different.

 

[gotoadgo]

Some of the replies in this thread make me wonder if people were watching the same show. Where did he get the M60? Was Skinny Pete and Badger being elite killers ever hinted at? Not knowing how Gretchen and Elliot were going to get the money to Walt Jr?

Are you people serious?

And how in gods name is this episode a win for Walt? Reaching man, reaching.

 

[Limit]

Very likely that someone brought up this point earlier in the thread but wouldn't all the camera recordings at Nazis' compound be able to prove that Jesse was cooking for them and not Walt?