lastflowers
Banned
Skylar should not get off lightly, she's an idiot who perpetuated Walt's actions.
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Breaking Bad - The (Beautiful) Finale - Season 5 Part 2 - Sunday on AMC - OT3
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
Anyone defending Jesse shouldn't have to start their defense with "He only killed 2".
Still, he is responsible for a majority of the deaths. That is the reoccurring theme of the entire show.
yes. YES. This moment, is of the best of the show. Tense, crazy.
well damn
Damn a lot of interesting answers.
I guess for me personally, I would like to see Jesse get some peace. I'm someone that has felt that Jesse is a maker of his own misfortunes. Yest Walt has manipulated him and played him. But I think Jesse is responsible for a lot of his own tragic moments, and has also had a negative impact on Walt and himself through some of his actions (I don't see it as a one sided relationship. I think both of them have had a bad impact on each other, and are parasitic to one another).
But after the hell he's been put through, I wouldn't mind him finding peace. This is a reversal of my opinion, if you guys remember my posts in the other thread. Also, after reflecting on it quite a lot, I think the difference between Walt and Jesse is that Jesse ultimately came to accept that what they were doing was wrong. That it wasn't something to be proud of. And I also think he had genuine regrets. Walt has never regretted anything, and continues to justify his actions.
So yeah. I think Jesse finding some peace would be a powerful moment. I don't think I want him riding off into the sunset happy (then again, I don't see how that can happen, given the shit he's been through. I have to imagine the guy is beyond damaged for life).
I also wouldn't mind us getting clarification on why Walt left Gray Matter. I don't think we need it. And I'm not saying I want a huge section dedicated to it. But I wouldn't mind that scene.
I guess for me personally, I would like to see Jesse get some peace. I'm someone that has felt that Jesse is a maker of his own misfortunes. Yest Walt has manipulated him and played him. But I think Jesse is responsible for a lot of his own tragic moments, and has also had a negative impact on Walt and himself through some of his actions (I don't see it as a one sided relationship. I think both of them have had a bad impact on each other, and are parasitic to one another).
But after the hell he's been put through, I wouldn't mind him finding peace. This is a reversal of my opinion, if you guys remember my posts in the other thread. Also, after reflecting on it quite a lot, I think the difference between Walt and Jesse is that Jesse ultimately came to accept that what they were doing was wrong. That it wasn't something to be proud of. And I also think he had genuine regrets. Walt has never regretted anything, and continues to justify his actions.
So yeah. I think Jesse finding some peace would be a powerful moment. I don't think I want him riding off into the sunset happy (then again, I don't see how that can happen, given the shit he's been through. I have to imagine the guy is beyond damaged for life).
I also wouldn't mind us getting clarification on why Walt left Gray Matter. I don't think we need it. And I'm not saying I want a huge section dedicated to it. But I wouldn't mind that scene.
EdibleExplosives
Member
Lol what?
I'm not sure the question?
This stems from the notion that Jesse should be absolved of all guilt because he feels both of those things. I'm not sure why Walt has to feel that way? His character is molded in a manner where it's not necessary.
dark_inferno
Member
Im not defending him. I just say that he killed 2 by his hands.
Every mainperson in this Show has some grey zones. That is exactly the good thing about it.
You cant say who is the good or the bad guy. Because they all were driven by their characterization,behaviors. You can say that Walt is a bad guy because he made all this money for himself and lied with "I do this for my family". You could also say that he is a good guy because he made some good choices to save his family etc. That is something we all could discuss years after the show and never would everyone agree on the same thing. But we all could agree on something like "He has a damn big ego" and "He is greedy".
Going to be so sad when Walt straps Holly with explosives and throws her into the nazi camp
EmCeeGramr
Member
Yes, the occurring theme of the show "Walter White is Breaking Bad" is that his traumatized pawn is responsible for everything. Good job gumshoe, you've cracked the case.
Coffee Dog
Banned
See, the problem with this argument is you're ignoring the context in which the kills were made. How many were situations that Jesse willingly put himself into where he wanted to kill the other person? The only time I can think of is the two drug dealers Walt hit with his Aztec. Edit: Also when he was about to kill walt in S4 over brock's poisoning. The only two kills he actually made were when he was forced to shoot Gale by Walt, and when he got involved in a gang war after nearly being sold as a fucking meth slave.
It's not as simple as good guy/bad guy with any of the characters. I don't think I've been introduced to a singular main character who is "good".
I've never cried for a movie/show/game/book/play etc.
I just don't get those feels broham.
I still maintain that, if Walter comes out on top, we shouldn't see him die. He ought to leave everything behind and be something of an enigma. The viewer, and perhaps Jesse, will know that he'd only have a few months, if not weeks left. But everyone else will still feel his presence.
I'd like to see a flashforward of Holly finding the tape that their family recorded in the ending of Season 1 finale, cause then we'd know Walter would be dead.
Saying that Walt hasn't regretted anything is not right imho...
I mean the fly episode, the attempted money burning at the start of season3 and the "inheritance" of his victims' characteristics tell us that at least on a subconscious level those deaths affected him...
EDIT: and of course in the phone call to junior in granite state he finally says "I made some terrible choices".
I mean the fly episode, the attempted money burning at the start of season3 and the "inheritance" of his victims' characteristics tell us that at least on a subconscious level those deaths affected him...
EDIT: and of course in the phone call to junior in granite state he finally says "I made some terrible choices".
Bobby Roberts
Banned
#TeamTodd confirmed!
Maybe you should read before you post? I wasn't talking about Walter there, "gumshoe".
Jesse doesn't have to willingly need to do it to become a guilty party. The show makes his character clear though, he doesn't have the stomach for the business.
Like I said, I've always viewed Jesse as a maker of his own destruction. He's a tragic character. Walt has definitely played a role in manipulating him (taking advantage of how how Jesse looked at him as a father figure). But a lot of Jesse's actions in the earlier seasons, brought suffering on to himself. He was the reason a lot of situations played out the way they did.
That doesn't excuse Walt's actions though, by any means. I just think the tragedy of the show is, both were harmful to each other, and never should have mixed. I know a lot of people think Walt has zero feelings for Jesse. And I disagree with that. I think deep down Walt certainly had genuine feelings for him at some point in the story. And we know Jesse clearly had feelings for Walt.
Walt was just willing to sacrifice that relationship if it meant his own survival. It was always his own survival over Jesse. He was willing to use Jesse, if it meant for the "greater good" - as he saw it. Anyways, this talk about their relationship is kind of beyond the point now. Walt signed Jesse's death warrant. Jesse hates Walt's guts. It's never going to go back to what it was. I wouldn't be surprised if they killed each other.
That doesn't excuse Walt's actions though, by any means. I just think the tragedy of the show is, both were harmful to each other, and never should have mixed. I know a lot of people think Walt has zero feelings for Jesse. And I disagree with that. I think deep down Walt certainly had genuine feelings for him at some point in the story. And we know Jesse clearly had feelings for Walt.
Walt was just willing to sacrifice that relationship if it meant his own survival. It was always his own survival over Jesse. He was willing to use Jesse, if it meant for the "greater good" - as he saw it. Anyways, this talk about their relationship is kind of beyond the point now. Walt signed Jesse's death warrant. Jesse hates Walt's guts. It's never going to go back to what it was. I wouldn't be surprised if they killed each other.
killertofu
Member
It's a little early for Halloween but I remember making around the time Walt did the whole "Stay away from my territory" thing.
I think a lot of people would get it now
I think a lot of people would get it now
EmCeeGramr
Member
Yeah I know. That's why I said "his traumatized pawn."
Maybe you should work on your reading skills first.
Please relinquish your avatar. Thank you.
I'm not sure I recognize the hostility? I didn't respond to any of your posts until my prior one.
I get it, Todd being emotionless and all, but still...
He's gotta go.
Unless I really did miss the joke.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
Jesse made a lot of bad decisions, but they were never calculated decisions. They were largely reactionary and born from a lack of maturity or substance dependency.
Walter actively stood back, assessed a situation and *then* made bad decisions.
I suppose it's all a matter of perspective, but I have much greater empathy for Jessie than I have for Walt. Jesse feels like the product of a time and place, whereas Walter feels like someone who could have and should have known better.
Walter actively stood back, assessed a situation and *then* made bad decisions.
I suppose it's all a matter of perspective, but I have much greater empathy for Jessie than I have for Walt. Jesse feels like the product of a time and place, whereas Walter feels like someone who could have and should have known better.
Coffee Dog
Banned
Uh, from a moral standpoint, yeah he does. A good person that gets manipulated into doing some awful shit to stay alive can still be a good person. We haven't seen Jessie get a real choice in how things played out until this season. And what did he want to do? Leave. Just get the fuck out and start over.
I love how you are phrasing "doesn't want to hurt people anymore" as "lol what a pussy, he doesn't have the guts for it".
Carol can't indirectly die from it for nothing!
Watching a few episodes of S5, gonna do Tohajiilee/Ozymandias/Granite State for sure, but almost at the end of Gliding Over All.
The Crystal Blue Persuasion montage is one of the best things they've ever done. Gorgeous visually, the music is incredible, it does the time skip brilliantly... it's a wonderful piece of television.
The Crystal Blue Persuasion montage is one of the best things they've ever done. Gorgeous visually, the music is incredible, it does the time skip brilliantly... it's a wonderful piece of television.
If someone is manipulated into doing something, they are still a guilty party.
...I don't think I called Jesse a pussy, or even suggested that.
dark_inferno
Member
Who else thinks we will get this Ending
FYI: The Fly could be the nazis.
FYI: The Fly could be the nazis.
7he Talon
Member
But to say anyone in Breaking Bad is a good person is a bit of a long shot (Maybe apart from Walt Jr).
I too hope Jesse makes it out of this and has somewhat of a good ending. I think he's paid for what he's done, especially over these last few episodes.
I was thinking though, if Jesse lives, what does he have? He's pretty much lost everything... Where would he go from there?
If the fly is Walt's money, then yes.
Walt Jr. is guilty of underage drinking and unhealthy breakfasts.
Coffee Dog
Banned
But that's not what we're discussing, is it? Unless you believe that no matter the context you're immoral if you do some illegal shit and are the guilty party, but I think it's more nuanced than that.
Then what did you mean by he doesn't have the stomach for it? It just seems like a way to frame his newfound caring about taking life as a flaw of some kind.
Same hereHave fun gaf, wish i could watch the finale with all the reactions
It's even more sad to watch this all alone ç_ç
It sucks having no friends that watch Breaking Bad nearby.I don't think anyone suggested otherwise. I do believe in second chances though, unless you're that brutal.
RustyNails
Member
No, I mean straight up "I will give you and Marie $20 million if you both keep your mouths shut and forget about Heisenberg"
triplestation
Member
.
It's a bit of both. Jesse is neither a good person or an innocent one. As stated before, nobody on the show (in a main character perspective) is relatively a good person.
Because he doesn't have the stomach for it? He is a junkie and a screw up. His actions have gotten innocents and people close to him killed, Jesse is aware of this and it tears away at him. Walt on the other hand is calculated and impressively successful. This is what gives him his pride for the duration of the series.
turbosnail
Banned
....wot