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[Ourobolus]

Because Kalor said that in addition to confirming a vanilla role, it will also return vanilla for scum. This means that alignment actually affects what Kalor gets back when he checks on someone.

what?

seriously, what?

He said that he would get this:

Vanilla Townie - "Vanilla"
Non-Vanilla Townie - "Not Vanilla"
Scum - "Vanilla"

Then you said "Ouro would show up as a vanilla townie." As a Miller would I not show up as "Not Vanilla," since I am not a Hopeless MP?

Also I've never heard of a cop that only returns "Not Vanilla" for only Town PRs. It's usually "Not Vanilla" for A) everything other than Vanilla Townies, or B) everything other than Vanilla Townies and Mafia Goons.

If he actually is what he says he is, he should say who he got back as "Vanilla" because at best they are scum and at worst they are Hopeless MPs.

 

[Ourobolus]

Also I've never heard of a cop

should say "Vanilla Cop."

Anyway, a Vanilla Cop doesn't check alignment inherently. It checks the role. A Miller just affects my alignment. My role is still "Miller."

 

[kingkitty]

I want to say "of course Kalor is lying, two town cops in this game? cabot wouldn't do something like that!" but I don't know for sure anymore. Maybe this game is a secret experiment in making half of the players a different flavor of cop.

Or maybe Kalor is just lyin', but then why lie with another cop claim? Or maybe he's telling the truth, but hiding the alignment, like CCS.

In the end, I'm still fine with a Kalor death, according to my earlier skimming of Gorlak.

 

[Poltergust]

what?

seriously, what?

He said that he would get this:

Vanilla Townie - "Vanilla"
Non-Vanilla Townie - "Not Vanilla"
Scum - "Vanilla"

Then you said "Ouro would show up as a vanilla townie." As a Miller would I not show up as "Not Vanilla," since I am not a Hopeless MP?

Also I've never heard of a cop that only returns "Not Vanilla" for only Town PRs. It's usually "Not Vanilla" for A) everything other than Vanilla Townies, or B) everything other than Vanilla Townies and Mafia Goons.

If he actually is what he says he is, he should say who he got back as "Vanilla" because at best they are scum and at worst they are Hopeless MPs.

Ouro, as a Miller you become scum-aligned when cops check you. As such, your role should return as vanilla.

This is not hard.

 

[Ourobolus]

Ouro, as a Miller you become scum-aligned when cops check you. As such, your role should return as vanilla.

This is not hard.

When an alignment cop checks me. Not a vanilla cop.

This is not hard.

 

[Poltergust]

When an alignment cop checks me. Not a vanilla cop.

This is not hard.

Does your role specifically say only alignment cops will get a red-check from you? Or is it possible that cop abilities affected by alignment will also be affected?

 

[Ourobolus]

Does your role specifically say only alignment cops will get a red-check from you? Or is it possible that cop abilities affected by alignment will also be affected?

It says that I will show up as scum if checked by a cop. I am not actually scum, it only messes with the alignment that is returned when a cop who checks my alignment targets me.

A vanilla cop is checking my role. My role is not vanilla. It doesn't check my alignment.

 

[Poltergust]

It says that I will show up as scum if checked by a cop. I am not actually scum, it only messes with the alignment that is returned when a cop who checks my alignment targets me.

A vanilla cop is checking my role. My role is not vanilla. It doesn't check my alignment.

The way Kalor described his role, alignment takes precedence over role when it comes to the final result. A Godfather, for example, would come back as a vanilla townie. He would see you as scum, so therefore he would get a vanilla townie result from you.

I'm not sure why you're pushing so hard against this. Do you want your role as Miller to remain pointless?

 

[Ourobolus]

I give up.

 

[Ourobolus]

Where's zeemumu

 

[Fireblend]

Would scum claim another, even less common variation of a Cop?

 

[Ourobolus]

Would scum claim another, even less common variation of a Cop?

I thought about it a little more, and it's not a great claim, true or not. Vanilla cop is a town role, but it's not really useful in rooting out scum unless they can provide evidence that someone is not vanilla yet claimed vanilla. I'm WIFOM'd to hell right now, but it's not something I would ever think to claim as scum.

 

[Flame_AC]

Would scum claim another, even less common variation of a Cop?

Would scum have a mandatory thunderdome which includes their own teammate and has to be used by Day 3? 9 times out 10 we'd all probably say no.

 

[Flame_AC]

You know, I'd be interested in just Kalor saying the names of the people they've targeted, not what came back. Then go piecemeal through the list as needed.

 

[Ourobolus]

Honestly I'd like to keep my vote on Polter in the hopes that my head stops hurting.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

DAY 5 CURRENT VOTE TALLY:

Kalor (4)
Fireblend 1315
Flame_AC 1321 1479
Kawl_USC 1371
backslashbunny 1494
Spoiled Milk 1496

Poltergust (2)
Ourobolus 1424
Flame_AC 1479

Ourobolus (1)
Poltergust 1414

Kawl_USC (0): Ourobolus 1309 1424

No active vote for Day 5: *Splinter, Kalor, kingkitty, zeemumu

Day 5 Postcount: *Splinter 17, backslashbunny 18, Fireblend 22, Flame_AC 17, Kalor 4, Kawl_USC 12, kingkitty 10, Ourobolus 68, Poltergust 46, Spoiled Milk 4, zeemumu 4


Day 5 ends:

Automated vote tally here

6 votes for majority

 

[*Splinter]

Wouldn't vanilla cop make more sense as a scum role? It's functionally similar to role cop.

 

[Kalor]

You know, I'd be interested in just Kalor saying the names of the people they've targeted, not what came back. Then go piecemeal through the list as needed.

In no particular order:
zeemumu, Crab, zippedpinhead, Ouro

The way Kalor described his role, alignment takes precedence over role when it comes to the final result. A Godfather, for example, would come back as a vanilla townie. He would see you as scum, so therefore he would get a vanilla townie result from you.

I'm not sure why you're pushing so hard against this. Do you want your role as Miller to remain pointless?

Role takes precedence over alignment. My results depend on what their role is, not their alignment.

 

[Kalor]

Wouldn't vanilla cop make more sense as a scum role? It's functionally similar to role cop.

Potentially. If scum have a cop I think it might be a role cop since the doctor happened to die the night after CCS threatened to reveal them. Though maybe that was a coincidence.

 

[*Splinter]

I didn't have time to reread the thread, but here are my current reads:

3. [f] backslashbunny [NEW] - lean town, but have reservations for the same reason Ouro mentioned earlier. Basically she's been playing the newbie angle really hard, to the point that the whole thing seems intentionally exaggerated. She seems to be tunneling me a bit, but I can't tell if it's a genuine misguided tunnel or just pushing a convenient target.

4. [m] Kalor - probably scum. I think I mentioned on day 1 that I was getting unusual vibes from Kalor, and his day 3 (thunderdome) looks like classic scum-caught-with-their-pants-down. I actually believe his claim, just think he's scum-aligned.

6. [m] Ouro - ehhh he's still just about a lean town. The roles we've had claimed are a little odd but not impossible, his trust of kitty is perhaps more damning but given the timing/nature of Kitty's claim it feels reasonable to have believed kitty without thinking too hard about game design/balance. So a few little niggles but my gut says he's town.

7. [m] Kawl_USC - lean scum. There's not much I can specifically point to here. Less activity/engagement perhaps although it's not a great indicator. Kawl's a competent enough player that I wouldn't expect him to leave any glaring red flags lying around, although his conversation with Polter earlier today was super defensive and probably the scummiest thing he's done this game.

8. [m] Poltergust - lean town. I had Polter in that null/maybe scum kind of group for ages, but I'm having doubts. Lots of people nodding along with "yeah, Polter is scummy, sure" with very few arguments being raised to support (I know fire did a little more detail on Polter today, plus his CCS vote does bother me). Polter feels like a mislynch that we're going to sleepwalk into if we're not careful. (Similar could be said for Kalor, but he at least has that super scummy thunderdome vote. If Kalor flips town I will start to panic).

11. [m] Fireblend - null. Too much that doesn't make sense to me, this is one of the main players I wanted to re-read so I'm basically putting this read off until later.

12. [m] zeemumu - scum. For all the attention Kalor/Polter get, how is Zeemumu so under the radar?? I asked him to clarify a short post he made earlier and got the most evasive set of non-answers I've ever seen.

13. [m] kingkitty - town. Believe his claim. Technically only delivered a neutral but /meh

14. [m] Flame_AC - town? I could put on my tin foil hat and say "flame was going to be lynched on D3 anyway, perfect time for Gorlak to get his power out of the way and bus a teammate" but... Nah. Occam's razor, innit?

17. [m] Spoiled Milk - scum??? Similar to Zeemumu. Contributes little, evasive answers to the simplest questions, somehow been completely out of the spotlight.

Top scum:
Kalor
Zeemumu
Spoiled Milk

Top town:
Kingkitty
Flame_AC
...Ouro?

 

[Spoiled Milk]

Null:
3. [f] backslashbunny - gives off newbie vibes, wants to understand what's going on
4. [m] Kalor - very impersonal. comments on a few things here and there, but doesn't get involved.
9. [m] CCS - Same as yesterday, I don't feel anything.
12. [m] zeemumu - the slight suspicion from yesterday's vote stays in my mind, but today's posts feel okay.
13. [m] kingkitty - liked his d1, but today he's a bit weird

I don't like that Kalor and CCS had an affinity on day one. And I don't like how Kalor and CCS are the only two people who Gorlak decided to give a completely "I feel nothing" attitude toward.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

I posted this:

Top scum for me are Kalor and CCS.

Then a few minutes later CCS posts this:

Fuck it, still not convinced he's not scum.

VOTE: Spoiled Milk

 

[Spoiled Milk]

Well, I'm inclined to believe CCS so it's a matter of waiting for Gorlak to find out why he lied about his role. Looking at it now, his eagerness to claim to be vanilla town might be tied to it.

CCS had a plan to bus Gorlak and was pushing for his lynch. What if Kalor was in on it?

 

[Kalor]

CCS had a plan to bus Gorlak and was pushing for his lynch. What if Kalor was in on it?

Are you trying to say that I'm the other neutral? Because if you remember CCS was neutral and didn't know that Gorlak was scum. He even said himself that he thought Gorlak was town.

 

[*Splinter]

I don't like that Kalor and CCS had an affinity on day one. And I don't like how Kalor and CCS are the only two people who Gorlak decided to give a completely "I feel nothing" attitude toward.

How would scum Gorlak know the full neutral team on day 2?

 

[Ourobolus]

CCS had a plan to bus Gorlak and was pushing for his lynch. What if Kalor was in on it?

I don't think you know what this word means

 

[Poltergust]

In no particular order:
zeemumu, Crab, zippedpinhead, Ouro



Role takes precedence over alignment. My results depend on what their role is, not their alignment.

Since you're saying this, that means that your result for Ouro was "not vanilla", meaning he's either the second neutral (doubtful, honestly) or confirmed town. Either way, it may be best for me to focus elsewhere for today.

Unvote: Ourobolus

This means the only unknown in that list is zeemumu. I'm willing to find out what you got from him, personally.

 

[*Splinter]

Since you're saying this, that means that your result for Ouro was "not vanilla", meaning he's either the second neutral (doubtful, honestly) or confirmed town. Either way, it may be best for me to focus elsewhere for today.

Unvote: Ourobolus

This means the only unknown in that list is zeemumu. I'm willing to find out what you got from him, personally.

I think this post demonstrates why a miller and the role Kalor has claimed couldn't exist in the same game.

 

[Ourobolus]

I think this post demonstrates why a miller and the role Kalor has claimed couldn't exist in the same game.

I think that post just continues my headache

 

[Poltergust]

I think this post demonstrates why a miller and the role Kalor has claimed couldn't exist in the same game.

Because Kalor's check on Ouro, ironically, exonerated him?

Normally, I would say that's a fair point, but the problem I have with that under these circumstances is that Kalor completely volunteered that information about role taking prevedence over alignment. If he was willing to lie about it, I would think that saying "alignment takes precedence over role" or "Ouro actually did come back as vanilla" would be more believable.

Even disregarding all of that, do we all understand what Kalor just did? He covered for Ouro. This is big because it means the chances of them both being on the same team just shot straight up. Kalor, willingly or not, just linked him and Ouro together. If Kalor's town, then Ouro is definitely not scum. If Kalor is scum, then the chances of Ouro being scum are extremely high.

 

[Fireblend]

Just checking in to say I'm sticking with my Kalor vote. I don't know what to think of Polter's tunneling on Ouro. If he's town it seems to me to be a bit odd; we already knew Ouro's Miller claim would mean he'd survive most of the game without scum NK'ing him to force us to let lynch him, so why is he so bent on lynching him now because of what I perceive as some flavor-related assumptions? I do feel that well have to lynch him sooner or later, he's claiming Miller in a game where alignment is a bit messy, but to me Kalor feels a lot more scummish.

 

[Ourobolus]

He didn't cover for me, he did the exact same thing I did, which was telling you how you are misunderstanding the role.

 

[*Splinter]

Because Kalor's check on Ouro, ironically, exonerated him?

Normally, I would say that's a fair point, but the problem I have with that under these circumstances is that Kalor completely volunteered that information about role taking prevedence over alignment. If he was willing to lie about it, I would think that saying "alignment takes precedence over role" or "Ouro actually did come back as vanilla" would be more believable.

Even disregarding all of that, do we all understand what Kalor just did? He covered for Ouro. This is big because it means the chances of them both being on the same team just shot straight up. Kalor, willingly or not, just linked him and Ouro together. If Kalor's town, then Ouro is definitely not scum. If Kalor is scum, then the chances of Ouro being scum are extremely high.

Has Kalor even said Ouro was non vanilla yet? You're getting way ahead of yourself here, just looks like setting up a chain lynch for if (when?) Kalor flips scum.

 

[Poltergust]

You said it yourself, Ouro:

Vanilla Townie - "Vanilla"
Non-Vanilla Townie - "Not Vanilla"
Scum - "Vanilla"

So since Kalor confirmed for us that role takes precedence over alignment, it means that you returned a "not vanilla" check to him.

So yes, he did cover for you because if what Kalor claims is true you cannot possibly be scum.

 

[Ourobolus]

You said it yourself, Ouro:



So since Kalor confirmed for us that role takes precedence over alignment, it means that you returned a "not vanilla" check to him.

So yes, he did cover for you because if what Kalor claims is true you cannot possibly be scum.

...

...

Can someone else argue with him?

 

[Ourobolus]

If Kalor flips scum, I'm voting for Poltergust tomorrow, full stop. This reasoning makes no sense.

 

[zeemumu]

CCS had a plan to bus Gorlak and was pushing for his lynch. What if Kalor was in on it?

He did a poor job of it without pointing fingers at himself in the process

 

[Poltergust]

I'm just using your words again.

Then you said "Ouro would show up as a vanilla townie." As a Miller would I not show up as "Not Vanilla," since I am not a Hopeless MP?

So which is it? Would you or would you not show up as "not vanilla" under Kalor's check?

You seem to be arguing just for argument's sake, frankly.

 

[Ourobolus]

I'm just using your words again.



So which is it? Would you or would you not show up as "not vanilla" under Kalor's check?

You seem to be arguing just for argument's sake, frankly.

Not Vanilla

But that should only tell you that I'm a PR, not whether I am Town or scum.

 

[Poltergust]

Not Vanilla

But that should only tell you that I'm a PR, not whether I am Town or scum.

Not if Kalor is telling the truth about scum automatically being shown as "vanilla". If that's the case, it would mean you are not scum.

 

[Ourobolus]

Not if Kalor is telling the truth about scum automatically being shown as "vanilla". If that's the case, it would mean you are not scum.

And my point is that you believe that he is not only an unlimited Vanilla cop, but also a pseudo-alignment cop too?

 

[Poltergust]

And my point is that you believe that he is not only an unlimited Vanilla cop, but also a pseudo-alignment cop too?

It's not impossible. It would certainly give your own Miller claim some weight to it. I also am not sure why Kalor would add something like that to his claim if he was lying. It certainly seems out of the blue and can only serve to implicate others.

 

[Flame_AC]

Not if Kalor is telling the truth about scum automatically being shown as "vanilla". If that's the case, it would mean you are not scum.

It's not that. Vanilla scum members would show up as vanilla. Any non-vanilla scum members like a Roleblocker would show up as a non-vanilla.

 

[Poltergust]

That's not what Kalor said at all, Flame_AC.

Scum appear as vanilla so it's more a tool of verifying some people's claims.

 

[Flame_AC]

That's not what Kalor said at all, Flame_AC.

Then Kalor's role is unlike any vanilla cop I've ever seen.

 

[Kawl_USC]

Then Kalor's role is unlike any vanilla cop I've ever seen.

Almost like he's definitely lying about something....

Almost like we shouldn't base our decisions on anything he's saying....

Almost like Polter is trying to spin it into setting up a lynch later...

But seriously this whole argument is ridiculous. I'm was becoming more suspicious of Splinter who seemed to continually be buying into what Polter is selling even when it seems busted AF, but even he hopped off that train with this new reasoning.

 

[Poltergust]

Almost like he's definitely lying about something....

Almost like we shouldn't base our decisions on anything he's saying....

Almost like Polter is trying to spin it into setting up a lynch later...

But seriously this whole argument is ridiculous. I'm was becoming more suspicious of Splinter who seemed to continually be buying into what Polter is selling even when it seems busted AF, but even he hopped off that train with this new reasoning.

If Kalor's addendum to his vanilla cop role was so unbelievable, why did he make it? That's what's bothering me a lot about this whole affair.

In fact, why even claim vanilla cop at all? He could've just claimed alignment cop if he did this claim in an attempt to save himself.

 

[Ourobolus]

So we've got an hour and a half left. I'd like to hear more from zeemumu, Milk, and Kalor if they are around

 

[Flame_AC]

So we've got an hour and a half left. I'd like to hear more from zeemumu, Milk, and Kalor if they are around

Seconded. If Kalor is about to die do you think it is in town's best interests for the results of the vanilla check to be revealed?

 

[Ourobolus]

Seconded. If Kalor is about to die do you think it is in town's best interests for the results of the vanilla check to be revealed?

The only one that's really remaining is zeemumu's Vanilla check.

Spoiler

and mine

So yeah, probably not a terrible idea