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[avaya]

you can not have a second referendum, even those of you who are mad as hopping hell must see that, if remain won you would then have to have a 3rd and final one. You have to be fair to democracy, you can not suddenly say now we won then tough, as leavers would have just as much right to ask for a re-run

I just don't see any way for a referendum to be done on anything as it would be political suicide for any party... ignore the Lib Dems wanting one, that was just them hoping they found a source of votes for the GE

On this logic we should have been one and done in 1970 or whenever the fuck it was.

Only pure fuckery is driving Brexit at this point. The EU will welcome us changing our minds with open arms - it would be the ULTIMATE validation that petty nationalism never wins. You could not possibly get better PR than that.

 

[KarneeKarnay]

My argument is not based on blatant lies, we know they did, I think they even admitted it? but look through a manifesto it will be full of hot air that never comes to pass, and parties go to the public based on promises they wont get, yet we don't get a do-over.

Politicians lie, that is what needs changing, I stand by my feelings, a second referendum does nothing but open the argument for a 3rd, unless there was a landslide.... and what if leave won again!!

Hard Brexit!

True. People will demand a third if remain win. However I would suggest that the Government, the people and the EU wouldn't want it. They'd want a definitive answer for at least a generation.

So unlike the first one, there would probably have to be a clear majority either way to prove the right course. Otherwise we do open it up again. If one isn't reached then the safer option would have to be taken. Parliament would probably have to decide.

 

[Herb Alpert]

Rarely can you point to an image directly proving the lie.

Is this guy still a potential prime minister? Hasn't he lost all credibility by being exposed as a lying manipulating wussy douche?

 

[oilvomer]

On this logic we should have been one and done in 1970 or whenever the fuck it was.

Only pure fuckery is driving Brexit at this point. The EU will welcome us changing our minds with open arms - it would be the ULTIMATE validation that petty nationalism never wins. You could not possibly get better PR than that.

My expertise on the 1970's one may be off, but I remember there being an argument that it was to join the EEA?

Was it not Brown who caused all the problems by signing off for the EU to rule everything? I seem to remember Cameron frothing at the mouth years ago at something Brown did but I can not find it.

 

[EmiPrime]

Yeah erm no we are way past the point of being able to stay. The price the UK would have to pay politically and financially to stay in the EU is too high now. If all of a sudden we went "you know what mateys think we will stay after all" then you can bet the rest of the EU will want compensation for all the shit brexit has caused so you can wave goodbye to the rebate and probably a huge increase in what we will have to pay to stay in.

Secondly the EU will want a renewed commitment from the UK to show it is seriously about the EU project which means the UK would probably have to wave all of it's special concessions and probably even provide a time table for joining the Euro.

Basically we are fucked if we leave and we are fucked if we stay in.

Nah the EU want A50 revoked as much as anyone, they would have us back in a heartbeat, as if the whole thing never happened. Brexit is so fucking awful for everyone involved I don't think they'd push their luck and demand a pound of flesh.

 

[KarneeKarnay]

Is this guy still a potential prime minister? Hasn't he lost all credibility by being exposed as a lying manipulating wussy douche?

Last week on LBC radio conservative voters were asked who they'd like to see take over if May stepped down. I quote.

"Boris is a very handsome man, with lots of star power behind him. I think it would be nice to get a young man into power."

I wanted to vomit.

 

[oilvomer]

True. People will demand a third if remain win. However I would suggest that the Government, the people and the EU wouldn't want it. They'd want a definitive answer for at least a generation.

So unlike the first one, there would probably have to be a clear majority either way to prove the right course. Otherwise we do open it up again. If one isn't reached then the safer option would have to be taken. Parliament would probably have to decide.

I truly believe the answer lies with the politicians, if they really wanted to they could stop this based on economic harm, if we re-run and it is leave 48- remain 52, that just does more harm to my mind, I don't know the solution, at this point I don't think there is one....

less you forget, remain win we get

Return of the Farage

 

[EmiPrime]

less you forget, remain win we get

Return of the Farage

Someone who has failed several times to be elected as an MP. I can live with him impotently flinging his faeces in Brussels (when he bothers to turn up).

 

[oilvomer]

Sorry guys

Statement just made on OECD call to stop Brexit.... No second referendum

The Treasury has flatly rejected calls by the west’s leading economic thinktank for a second EU referendum after the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development said a second poll would significantly benefit the economy.

“We are leaving the EU and there will not be a second referendum,” the Treasury said in a terse statement that reflected the government’s unhappiness with the OECD’s intervention.

The Paris-based thinktank, which has 34 rich country members, said it would revise the gloomy forecasts it made in its annual health check were Britain to stay in the EU.

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...rexit-or-face-long-term-decline-oecd-warns-uk

 

[D4Danger]

You're never going to get over the fact a second referendum looks like the political elite saying "well, that was a good first try but you voted wrong so maybe have another go."

It doesn't matter if they're right or wrong the perception alone is enough to turn people against it.

 

[Psychotext]

Another yes / no referendum was never likely.

What's more likely is a vote on the type of Brexit, then using that as a starting point to call the whole thing off.

 

[keep]

Not leaving the EU at this point will be the death of the Tories, they'll never do it.

Also, if they didn't, you'd have to put up with the never-ending show of people like Farage and all the loonies barking at the moon about the EU forever ONCE AGAIN.

I am an EU national living in the UK but I'd rather see the country leave and endure the awful political and economical consequences that'll derive from Brexit so all the Little Englanders can eat crow and learn some humility about their natural place in the current world order. It's long overdue.

 

[Acorn]

You're never going to get over the fact a second referendum looks like the political elite saying "well, that was a good first try but you voted wrong so maybe have another go."

It doesn't matter if they're right or wrong the perception alone is enough to turn people against it.

I still can't understand how a former trader and Boris fucking Johnson etc are not 'elite'.

I pretty much switch off the minute anyone says elite now.

Edit D4 not really directed at you.

 

[Psychotext]

I am an EU national living in the UK but I'd rather see the country leave and endure the awful political and economical consequences that'll derive from Brexit so all the Little Englanders can eat crow and learn some humility about their natural place in the current world order. It's long overdue.

It'll never happen though. Until the day they die they'll blame remoaners for talking down the country and the EU for punishing us.

IT'LL NEVER HAVE BEEN THE WRONG DECISION TO BREXIT.

Spoiler

You should have farmed harder.

 

[avaya]

Not leaving the EU at this point will be the death of the Tories, they'll never do it.

Also, if they didn't, you'd have to put up with the never-ending show of people like Farage and all the loonies barking at the moon about the EU forever ONCE AGAIN.

I am an EU national living in the UK but I'd rather see the country leave and endure the awful political and economical consequences that'll derive from Brexit so all the Little Englanders can eat crow and learn some humility about their natural place in the current world order. It's long overdue.

I agree it's the Conservative party that is willing to literally destroy this country to keep their grubby hands on power. They are fucking lower than vermin.

 

[Acorn]

Not leaving the EU at this point will be the death of the Tories, they'll never do it.

Also, if they didn't, you'd have to put up with the never-ending show of people like Farage and all the loonies barking at the moon about the EU forever ONCE AGAIN.

I am an EU national living in the UK but I'd rather see the country leave and endure the awful political and economical consequences that'll derive from Brexit so all the Little Englanders can eat crow and learn some humility about their natural place in the current world order. It's long overdue.

Little Englanders never accept responsibility for anything. And their power will actually fucking grow because the world is a terrible place.

 

[Ghost]

Not leaving the EU at this point will be the death of the Tories, they'll never do it.

Also, if they didn't, you'd have to put up with the never-ending show of people like Farage and all the loonies barking at the moon about the EU forever ONCE AGAIN.

I am an EU national living in the UK but I'd rather see the country leave and endure the awful political and economical consequences that'll derive from Brexit so all the Little Englanders can eat crow and learn some humility about their natural place in the current world order. It's long overdue.

That's what passes for a pleasant thought these days but it will never happen, everything that goes wrong after we leave will still be the EUs fault because they'll be 'Actively working against British interests to keep the EU project alive'.

 

[keep]

Little Englanders never accept responsibility for anything. And their power will actually fucking grow because the world is a terrible place.

Oh I think they will. Not all of them, of course, and probably not this current generation of 70-somethings, but their descendants will see the dissonance between that crazy empty rhetoric they have been fed and the reality of where Britain stands in the world after leaving the EU.

Every country in the world has crazy nationalists and people who have a lofty impression of themselves, but I think Britain's domination of the world up until Victorian times still resonates with many generations that haven't come to terms with who they really are these days. This will be their awakening.

 

[TimmmV]

I still can't understand how a former trader and Boris fucking Johnson etc are not 'elite'.

I pretty much switch off the minute anyone says elite now.

Edit D4 not really directed at you.

It's really maddening how the so called rejection of "political elites" has also seen the rise of both Mogg (and to a lesser extent) Johnson

Oh I think they will. Not all of them, of course, and probably not this current generation of 70-somethings, but their descendants will see the dissonance between that crazy empty rhetoric they have been fed and the reality of where Britain stands in the world after leaving the EU.

Every country in the world has crazy nationalists and people who have a lofty impression of themselves, but I think Britain's domination of the world up until Victorian times still resonates with many generations that haven't come to terms with who they really are these days. This will be their awakening.

The current little Englanders aren't intelligent enough to have that kind of self awareness. Once it becomes impossible to hide what a huge mess Brexit is/will be, they will just continue to blindly follow whatever scapegoat the tabloids point them at next

Unfortunately I fear it will still just be muslims/immigrants/non-white people

It feels like this country is set for a lot more pain from Brexit, and tbh large swathes of the population have only brought it on themselves.

 

[mrklaw]

you can not have a second referendum, even those of you who are mad as hopping hell must see that, if remain won you would then have to have a 3rd and final one. You have to be fair to democracy, you can not suddenly say now we won then tough, as leavers would have just as much right to ask for a re-run

I just don't see any way for a referendum to be done on anything as it would be political suicide for any party... ignore the Lib Dems wanting one, that was just them hoping they found a source of votes for the GE

Well the referendum wad screwed in the first place. For something with such huge repercussions they should have required a high minimum turnout and a large majority to be even slightly binding.

The fact that a tiny turnout and a majority of just 1 vote would technically have won isnt democracy, it’s idiocy

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41652416

OECD says reversing Brexit would boost economy.

Every remainer should demand a second referendum. No ifs or buts. This is madness. You can't destroy the economy based on margin of 1% and outright lies to the British public.

 

[Rush_Khan]

I am an EU national living in the UK but I'd rather see the country leave and endure the awful political and economical consequences that'll derive from Brexit so all the Little Englanders can eat crow and learn some humility about their natural place in the current world order. It's long overdue.

How thoughtful of you to care so much about all those Remainers who never wanted this.

 

[Psychotext]

Every remainer should demand a second referendum. No ifs or buts. This is madness. You can't destroy the economy based on margin of 1% and outright lies to the British public.

Sure you can. Will of the people.

 

[jelly]

Well the referendum wad screwed in the first place. For something with such huge repercussions they should have required a high minimum turnout and a large majority to be even slightly binding.

The fact that a tiny turnout and a majority of just 1 vote would technically have won isnt democracy, it’s idiocy

True and it also wasn't a binding vote so the government could have taken it under advisement, the economic harm would be devastating so we have decided not to go through with it. That's how I see the out, no new vote, Brexit was built on lies, lead to economic catastrophe so it's not happening, get on with your lives and have a merry christmas.

Now we just need people in government to have the balls and sense to say it.

 

[Roberto Larcos]

The pound sterling certainly need to die to ensure a closer union if Article 50 is relinquished.

Perhaps the only upside of a large scale economic crisis.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

A non-binding referendum. As in, a referendum that is there to be looked at and potentially ignored, if the results go against the well-being of the country.

By every measure this referendum was not meant to be taken as a valuable one.

 

[keep]

How thoughtful of you to care so much about all those Remainers who never wanted this.

I have a lot more to lose than many Remainers with this bullshit Brexit bestowed upon me without me being able to have a say in it. I have been living in the UK for over 12 years, have a stable, good job here, a British partner and own property in London so I could potentially be in big trouble if everything goes tits up, please spare me the lecture.

It's my honest reading of the situation. The current Tory government is not going to back off Brexit, any Remainers fantasising about that situation are only reading the Guardian / fooling themselves. The only upside to the whole thing is to mortally wound the idea that Britain is the centre of the universe once the economic repercussions are visible. Unfortunately, money is the only currency these selfish cunts understand.

 

[Dascu]

http://alde.eu/en/news/999-liberals...te-david-davis-to-sack-catherine-bearder-mep/

The letter requested that the leader of the Liberal Democrats “take action against the MEP from your party” for voting against the “best interests of the UK and the EU” and for “frustrating Brexit”, following ALDE MEP Catherine Bearder’s decision to vote in favour of the European Parliament’s Brexit resolution, adopted on the 3rd October.

Commenting this morning Guy Verhofstadt, President of the ALDE Group and the European Parliament’s Brexit Coordinator said:

“At first I thought this letter was a hoax. After discussing this extraordinary letter in a meeting of our Parliamentary group of MEPs, we have agreed that I will raise my concerns officially with the British Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union, David Davis, when we next meet.“

“It is deeply troubling that a Government minister would use his office to infer that a democratically elected politician was acting in a traitorous or unpatriotic manner, by voting in favour of a parliamentary resolution that seeks to provide certainty for both EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the EU, whose existing rights are under threat. This strikes me as profoundly un-British, coming from a senior minister of a country that has one of the oldest parliamentary democracies in the world.”

 

[Irminsul]

http://alde.eu/en/news/999-liberals...te-david-davis-to-sack-catherine-bearder-mep/

Did David Davis send that letter to everyone or just ALDE? I mean, you hardly could've picked a worse recipient than ALDE.

 

[PJV3]

I have a lot more to lose than many Remainers with this bullshit Brexit bestowed upon me without me being able to have a say in it. I have been living in the UK for over 12 years, have a stable, good job here, a British partner and own property in London so I could potentially be in big trouble if everything goes tits up, please spare me the lecture.

It's my honest reading of the situation. The current Tory government is not going to back off Brexit, any Remainers fantasising about that situation are only reading the Guardian / fooling themselves. The only upside to the whole thing is to mortally wound the idea that Britain is the centre of the universe once the economic repercussions are visible. Unfortunately, money is the only currency these selfish cunts understand.

I'm not expecting the clowns in Downing St to do anything, the way the government is crawling along I'm starting to expect parliament will put them out of their misery and force a soft brexit to avoid a calamity.

And a lot of that is middle of the road Tories starting to panic about Corbyn taking over on top of everything else.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

David Davis is a sick fuck.

You are sorely mistaken if you think that Brexiters aren't gonna try and bribe individual politicians to around the EU.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

Did David Davis send that letter to everyone or just ALDE? I mean, you hardly could've picked a worse recipient than ALDE.

I believe he sent it to Vince Cable (or de-facto to him as LD Leader). Who responded as such:

https://twitter.com/vincecable/status/920001157220765696

ALDC also getting very angry at it is no surprise. LDs are members of ALDC and Bearder is thus a member of both.

I cheer the day that this government collapses and the British people get another GE to try and fix the Brexit mess.

 

[anonymous_abc]

.

 

[Blue Lou]

When people post images on Twitter with lots of text, how do others make the image larger so it can be read?

 

[Camp Freddie]

I believe he sent it to Vince Cable (or de-facto to him as LD Leader). Who responded as such:

https://twitter.com/vincecable/status/920001157220765696

ALDC also getting very angry at it is no surprise. LDs are members of ALDC and Bearder is thus a member of both.

I cheer the day that this government collapses and the British people get another GE to try and fix the Brexit mess.

Vince should've sent a letter to May in response, demanding she sack Boris for publicly contradicting the official government position on Brexit. What's good for the goose, etc.

 

[Par Score]

When people post images on Twitter with lots of text, how do others make the image larger so it can be read?

Click on it?

 

[Uzzy]

EU leaders aim to let Theresa May down gently over trade talks

EU leaders at a crunch summit dinner are set to rebuff Theresa May’s appeal for trade talks, while they seek to publicly talk up her efforts in the Brexit negotiations as they fear that the prime minister’s domestic weakness will leave her unable to make vital concessions on Britain’s divorce bill.

The German chancellor, Angela Merkel, will lead European leaders in Brussels on Thursday in seeking to put the best gloss on their refusal to widen the talks, according to diplomatic sources. “There are ways to say it kindly and encouragingly or less kindly and less encouraging,” said one senior EU diplomat.

The member states are acutely aware that the prime minister needs to come out of the summit with her dignity intact, if she is to get her cabinet and party to accept major concessions on the divorce bill, of which estimates vary from about €60bn to €100bn (£54bn to £90bn).

She's getting even more pity now. Pitiable stuff.

 

[PJV3]

EU leaders aim to let Theresa May down gently over trade talks



She's getting even more pity now. Pitiable stuff.

Jesus, don't make me almost feel sorry for her, what a fucking nightmare this is.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

Jesus, don't make me almost feel sorry for her, what a fucking nightmare this is.

Nah I can't feel sorry for her or any of the MPs responsible for this mess. They'll all be fine no matter what happens (reminder: the basic salary for an MP is about 75k), plus all the other expenses they get, and this mess is all because the tories want to keep power.

The vast majority of the country is going to be hit far worse than they are.

 

[theaface]

EU leaders aim to let Theresa May down gently over trade talks

She's getting even more pity now. Pitiable stuff.

"It's not you, it's me. I mean, it's definitely you. By god, it's all you. But yeah, sorry. You can keep the DVDs and I'll still be friends with you on Facebook and stuff."

 

[D4Danger]

EU leaders aim to let Theresa May down gently over trade talks



She's getting even more pity now. Pitiable stuff.

The UK has already said they'll honor the commitments upto the end of the current budget. What else are they expecting at this point? has anyone actually said?

 

[Linkstrikesback]

The UK has already said they'll honor the commitments upto the end of the current budget. What else are they expecting at this point? has anyone actually said?

The money is only part of it. They've been saying for a long time that several things need to be sorted before trade talks can even be considered. If I'm remembering correctly, there were three sticking points

The money was one.

The serious issue of the border in Ireland between the Republic and North was another.

The status of current EU citizens in the UK (and vice versa?) Post brexit.

There might have been more, but I believe they said trade talks were off until at least those were sorted.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

Vince should've sent a letter to May in response, demanding she sack Boris for publicly contradicting the official government position on Brexit. What's good for the goose, etc.

I believe he has already called for BoJo to go on multiple occasions (as have many others).

And yeah, the issue is not the money. The money is there to be capitulated on once May has a "concession" from the EU. What the Tories want is to make it look like the EU is conceeding on trade deals and whatnot so they can make the money look less bad.

The issue is not EU residents. The Tories have no interests in contributing to the gutting of our highly skilled industries that Brexit has already triggered.

The real issue is Northern Ireland. There is not a solution to NI's border without the whole of the UK remaining in the SM and CU, or somehow creating a majority Republican bloc in NI to hand the province over to the RoI.

The money is an issue because the Tories are still being optimistic about getting the EU to talk trade as the timer continues. NI is unsolvable.

 

[nubbe]

EU leaders aim to let Theresa May down gently over trade talks

She's getting even more pity now. Pitiable stuff.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

Europe Elects on Twitter: UK European Union Membership Referendum: Remain: 52% (+4); Leave: 48% (-4) (Survation)

 

[kmag]

The UK has already said they'll honor the commitments upto the end of the current budget. What else are they expecting at this point? has anyone actually said?

A share of some of the liabilities such as the pension fund. To be honest, as with all things pension related the sooner you pay it, the cheaper it'll be.

 

[kmag]

Europe Elects on Twitter: UK European Union Membership Referendum: Remain: 52% (+4); Leave: 48% (-4) (Survation)

Would need to get a clear consistent lead something like 55%+ for Remain for any real political pressure to come to bear.

 

[liquidtmd]

EU leaders aim to let Theresa May down gently over trade talks

Jesus it's like High School where it gets around the whole school your girlfriend is going to dump you at lunchtime and all your mates come running upto and says 'Shes gonna dump your ass but she thinks you're really nice'

Europe Elects on Twitter: UK European Union Membership Referendum: Remain: 52% (+4); Leave: 48% (-4) (Survation)

How the fucking fuck is Leave still so high???

 

[avaya]

Europe Elects on Twitter: UK European Union Membership Referendum: Remain: 52% (+4); Leave: 48% (-4) (Survation)

Trending out of MOE, I expect it to continue to 60-40.

 

[nekkid]

The UK has already said they'll honor the commitments upto the end of the current budget. What else are they expecting at this point? has anyone actually said?

I must be honest, I’m still unclear as to why what we owe is so high when we’ve been a net contributor to the EU.

Feels a bit like when Joey asks Chandler to pay for the broken fridge after he’s moved out.