RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
ok cool, can you now go steal ND hard drives and release the TLOU MP game
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Bungie Creative Studios is joining PlayStation to build the foundation for a creative team that can support all PlayStation live service games
- Thread starter ArtHands
- Start date
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Didn't Sony announce plans to build "The Live Service Center of Excellence" with Bungie two years ago?
Physiognomonics
Member
kaizenkko
Member
Right, but that's not the only reason. Games take longer to be made these days. I think studios like Naughty Dog, Bend and Firesprite got affected by live service game developments and bad management issues. Bend, for example,started the development of their new game in 2021, two years afters Days Gone launch.
I think that Sony "fix" a lot of things this year. They are still doing live service games, but now there's dedicated teams for it. Studios got impacted, but that happens all the time. Sony Santa Monica was fuck before GOW 2018 release, but somehow they recovery and today are one of the best studios of the world.
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Mibu no ookami
Banned
No, simply a wing of Bungie's publishing efforts that will now join Sony's publishing efforts.
Mr Moose
Member
Mibu no ookami
Banned
So this is a good thing? OP:
I mean define "good thing."
In most practical aspects, this isn't something gamers should really be interested in at all.
If we dive deeper this is Sony re-allocating publishing assets from Bungie into publishing assets at SIE, who fill positions they otherwise largely would have been recruiting for and hiring for over several months and years. Employees who already work together and know each other and perform specific functions.
This team specifically is a marketing team, one that seems to have a particular focus on the marketing of live service games.
clarky
Gold Member
Sorry if i came off abrasive.
This isnt big news, it was one of the reasons they bought bungie. Nothing has changed. Did you read the article?
Because im not seeing where it says Bungie are being reduced to solely a live service support studio.
Also this:
Mibu no ookami
Banned
It's just super weird how reactionary some gamers are.
No one here has less interest in GaaS than me. I play zero online games let alone GaaS.
Sony's investment in GaaS isn't coming from their Single Player budget, if anything the Single Player budget has increased. It would not have increased further with the absence of GaaS, it simply wouldn't exist. Sony was not going to put more emphasis into Single Player budgeting than they had already felt comfortable doing. All of their studios that are Single Player studios are still single player studios.
People want to make something out of literally nothing...
Astray
Member
If anyone thinks Sony is going to back down from GAAS entirely they are mistaken. Bungie purchase is clearly about something more than just owning Destiny or Marathon.
I don't really like GAAS myself and never play them at all, but I'm not going to put my head in the sand and act like a bomb or two will stave off what's clearly a strategic initiative placed from above (read: Totoki and the Sony board).
Helldivers II was decently marketed given that the game has some sort of lore that can be delivered via a few big trailers just like Sony would deliver a GOW or Horizon story hook via trailers. Player word of mouth did the rest.
Things like Concord or Fairgame$ should not be marketed solely via State of Plays and big awards shows, you're fundamentally delivering slop, don't act like it belongs with the oscar winners of gaming.
What you need is a slow but steady drip of marketing for all the various heroes or classes or whatever you're basing said GAAS on. I still remember how Overwatch was marketed, and it was honestly a masterclass, it's the closest any publisher ever came to getting me to play a GAAS game.
I don't really like GAAS myself and never play them at all, but I'm not going to put my head in the sand and act like a bomb or two will stave off what's clearly a strategic initiative placed from above (read: Totoki and the Sony board).
The marketing for Sony's GAAS games has largely been weak tbh.
Helldivers II was decently marketed given that the game has some sort of lore that can be delivered via a few big trailers just like Sony would deliver a GOW or Horizon story hook via trailers. Player word of mouth did the rest.
Things like Concord or Fairgame$ should not be marketed solely via State of Plays and big awards shows, you're fundamentally delivering slop, don't act like it belongs with the oscar winners of gaming.
What you need is a slow but steady drip of marketing for all the various heroes or classes or whatever you're basing said GAAS on. I still remember how Overwatch was marketed, and it was honestly a masterclass, it's the closest any publisher ever came to getting me to play a GAAS game.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Think of the marketing behind Lethal Company or Valheim.
GAAS doesn't require a marketing budget. GAAS requires quality design.
clarky
Gold Member
Doesn't that apply to all games?
tmlDan
Member
I feel like some of you are schizophrenic, how do you come to this conclusion? This would actually be the opposite because they moved her into a more important role.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Where are the Valheim or Lethal Company analogues in the single player space? Tons of massive GAAS titles have 0 marketing budget. That doesn't happen in SP because launch week is so important there.
Gamer_By_Proxy
Member
Is this all of Bungie or is Creative Studio a certain part of it?
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Bungie fell off so hard.
clarky
Gold Member
Sorry i wasnt clear or mis read your post i was talking about quality design.
clarky
Gold Member
It's the bit they are spinning off when they announced the layoffs. Nothing really new.
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Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
I don't think so. Or at least, not nearly as important.
As evidenced by the low completion rates of so many big AAA games.
clarky
Gold Member
How so?
Lets see how Marathon goes before we write them off. As far as im concerned they have not release a single dud.
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clarky
Gold Member
Ill give you that. It is far more difficult to pull of a decent GAAS owing the the amount of moving parts you have.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
It's how agenda based gamers think.
You start off with the conclusion that is in line with your worldview and then you walk backwards from there.
The reality is this has probably little to nothing to do with Marathon. It's certainly an increased role for this team, who will keep doing what they were doing at Bungie, but at SIE.
Many people will somehow try to paint that as a bad thing for the M&A, when it's literally just integration. It's not inherently good or bad.
This senior director for example is being moved to SIE and has a larger scope for her job. She also probably lost retention bonuses that would have been part of the acquisition, which sucks, but she still has a job and a bigger job. I wonder if her pay changed at all or if they all stayed the same. At the end of the day though, that's none of our business.
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
Doesn’t sound to me like Concorn has slowed them down or deterred them at all in this initiative.
Yikes.
Yikes.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
It's crazy how people push narratives.
Halo 1 - success
Halo 2 - success
Halo 3 - success
Halo Reach - success
Destiny - success
Destiny 2 - success
SIE purchases them - They've really fallen off
lol what?
clarky
Gold Member
They would be foolish to not have at least some GAAS in the pipeline. Single player titles are not where the big money is.
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
No, not at all. It’s just what PS’s core audience was built on and why most buy PS5s. But sure let’s just not take any feedback from what happened with Concord and “follow the big money”. What could possibly go wrong?
clarky
Gold Member
The word success is an understatement when describing how those titles did.
I don't get it. People want big tentpole Single player games then going forward then you need some healthy GAAS titles in the portfolio to keep the tills ringing in-between releases.
Especially when games are taking 5+ years a pop.
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clarky
Gold Member
No, not at all. It’s just what PS’s core audience was built on and why most buy PS5s. But sure let’s just not take any feedback from what happened with Concord and “follow the big money”. What could possibly go wrong?
Games take a lot longer these days genius. That strat was fine years ago when you could pump out bangers every 2-3 years.
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Kvally
Member
Seems like it:
News - Aaron Greenberg (Xbox Marketing) said "Nobody cares about Banjo-Kazooie" at a Flight Sim event
Spanish youtuber and personality "Puerta al Sótano" was recently at a Flight Sim event. Aaron Greenberg was there too. PR person apparently asked fans which games they wanted to see again. "Puerta al Sótano" answered "Banjo-Kazooie" and apparently Aaron said "Nobody cares about Banjo Kazooie"...
"These companies care about money. His words make perfect sense to me tbh."
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
I don’t see a denial in there.
(Responding to post above me)
(Responding to post above me)
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Get ready Sony studios for more Bungie GAAS overseering.
Better make sure your MP modes and ecosystem are good or else your Bungie buddy now directing working with you will tell Hermen your game sucks.
Better make sure your MP modes and ecosystem are good or else your Bungie buddy now directing working with you will tell Hermen your game sucks.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
No, not at all. It’s just what PS’s core audience was built on and why most buy PS5s. But sure let’s just not take any feedback from what happened with Concord and “follow the big money”. What could possibly go wrong?
I was thinking about this earlier today and I'm starting to understand more and more why some PS fans are angry about Sony porting games to PC or Sony making GaaS games.
They see it as Sony not focusing their efforts entirely on them and their interests and they see the idea of split attention as them losing something of value, but that's not how growth works.
You say they're not taking any feedback from what happened with Concord and are following the big money, what could possibly go wrong.
The same people saying Sony should learn their lesson from Concord are ignoring the success of Helldivers 2, which has probably made Sony more money than any other game in their history and it's only in its first year...
It's why people keep trying to inflate the cost of Concord as a cudgel against Helldivers 2 and further GaaS investment. The problem is that in the real world, that math doesn't work.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
But this isn't a question of willingness but capacity. The studios/devs that make successful GaaS don't work for Sony. They can't wave a magic wand and pull a bunch of GaaS out of thin air.
Bungie was about to go bankrupt before Sony overpaid for them. They are one bomb away from shutting down.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
Tell me you don't know what this department does without telling me you don't know what this department does...
clarky
Gold Member
Sony already have several successful GAAS and purchased a couple more studios to make more. So I'm not sure what you mean there.
One bomb away from shutting down? Only if you live in the GAF bubble.
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James Sawyer Ford
Member
Not reduced to, their responsibilities are expanding
When did Sony ditch the ps3 and ps4 playbook and decide it was their job to compete with third parties? They already have Fortnite and every other popular gaas on their platform. They straight up own destiny. What the hell are they trying to accomplish other than lose a bunch of money? They need to be trend setters not trend chasers.
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Dr. Wilkinson
Member
That’s an awfully risky gamble. Because their best studios only know how to make single-player story-driven games. They’ve spent 30 years making their bones on that and learning how to be the best at that. Now Sony’s spent the entire PS5 generation trying to get some of their best studios to make games in genres that they’ve got know idea how to make. And you’ve seen all the cancellations like Last of Us online, etc. And all of that’s come at the price of these big AAA single-player games being years later than they ought to have launched, and these teams wasting so much time and money on things that never come out. The opportunity cost must be astronomical.
I do wonder after PS5 finishes its cycle in 2026/2027, how many of the core PS audience are gonna buy a PS6 sight-unseen after the entire PS5 generation goes by with… 5 major first-party single-player games? Yikes.
Compare that to the library of PS4 PS exclusives and I think Sony might be risking a large swath of their console audience. And people that buy consoles to play Fortnite or Overwatch, whatever, they are console agnostic and don’t give a shit about PlayStation.
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Angry_Megalodon
Member
Sony taking over Bungie's board and Totoki calling them out in public isn't a good sign.
If Marathon fails, they will fire another 300-400 staff, a step closer to shutdown.
The issue is, this has already happened. Bungie sabotaged Factions and promoted Firewalk, comprised of ex-Bungie staff. The nepotism is wild. Having Bungie people making strategic decisions over other studios is all levels of wrong.
clarky
Gold Member
I think that was always the plan regardless. Did anyone really think they'd spend 3 billion and just let Bungie carry on being multiplatform and doing whatever they want?
Stuff I just made up part one.
Stuff I just made up part two.
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SmurfMustard
Member
Seems like it:
News - Aaron Greenberg (Xbox Marketing) said "Nobody cares about Banjo-Kazooie" at a Flight Sim event
Spanish youtuber and personality "Puerta al Sótano" was recently at a Flight Sim event. Aaron Greenberg was there too. PR person apparently asked fans which games they wanted to see again. "Puerta al Sótano" answered "Banjo-Kazooie" and apparently Aaron said "Nobody cares about Banjo Kazooie"...www.neogaf.com
"These companies care about money. His words make perfect sense to me tbh."
That's totally different. I'm sure
Tiago Rodrigues
has his reasons why on rumor has to be true and another is absolutely ridiculous.mayham2199
Member
This is a weird take. You're acting like nothing Bungie did was good. Sure there were some major fuck ups but being able to get into the company and pull out the talent that made Destiny one of the top GAAS games for over a decade is part of Sony's job. Just throwing the whole studio and the talent in the trash and acting like none of them know anything IMO is what I would call stupid.
coachmcguirk91
Member
GAAS really don't need marketing. Helldivers 2 is the perfect example of that. Nobody really cared about HD2 a week before it released. It blew up because of great word of mouth. Same thing with Palworld.
It is not like single player games where publishers make all their money in the first week, so they need to advertise heavily. GAAS is about long term profits. It is why you don't see Fortnite, Minecraft, Warzone, or Roblox commercials. It is just a waste of money. Say what you want about GAAS, but they live and die on word of mouth, not advertising
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
I dunno man, like I see Fortnite commercials allll the time. Your thesis that GaaS games “sell themselves” and “don’t require advertising” is just straight up not factual.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
Their best studios are still making single player story driven games. Studios make games in new genres all the time. I didn't see anyone complaining when Naughty Dog went from Jak to Uncharted or when Insomniac made Resistance or Polyphony Digital made Gran Turismo or when Japan Studio made Legend of Dragoon. Guerrilla went from making FPS to action adventure games and had tremendous success with it. Insomniac went from making action platformers to making open world super hero games...
List out the major first party single player games in the first 4 years of the PS4.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Yup
Just low brow, knee jerk, reactionary nonsense.
Like we can’t even take any news snippet about certain studios with nothing but doomscrolling rhetoric.
