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PlayStation Is Missing Creative Leadership
- Thread starter FalconPunch
- Start date
ZehDon
Member
Sony's diving head first into the same blockbuster problem as Hollywood did. When you base your entire business model on massive tentpole blockbusters, everything needs to shift 20m copies. So, you need to make sure they're as safe-a-bet as possible, and nothing's safer to a committee than sequels, remakes, remasters, and spin offs.
To Sony's credit, we're still getting stuff like Helldivers 2 and Astro Bot - the kind of mid-level success stories Hollywood stopped trying to make decades ago. Microsoft doesn't really make big $200m games anymore - their business model doesn't support it - so we see stuff like Avowed on their slate, which, to me, is more interesting than yet another TLOU remake. Nintendo spends its money less on visual presentation and more on tinkering with gameplay innovations and experiments. When it lands, you get Animal Crossing. When it doesn't, it doesn't matter. With that said, when Microsoft and Sony swing for the fences, Sony still manages to deliver Spider-man 2 while Microsoft delivers Halo Infinite and Redfall. So, you know, you could probably be a little nicer to Sony.
To Sony's credit, we're still getting stuff like Helldivers 2 and Astro Bot - the kind of mid-level success stories Hollywood stopped trying to make decades ago. Microsoft doesn't really make big $200m games anymore - their business model doesn't support it - so we see stuff like Avowed on their slate, which, to me, is more interesting than yet another TLOU remake. Nintendo spends its money less on visual presentation and more on tinkering with gameplay innovations and experiments. When it lands, you get Animal Crossing. When it doesn't, it doesn't matter. With that said, when Microsoft and Sony swing for the fences, Sony still manages to deliver Spider-man 2 while Microsoft delivers Halo Infinite and Redfall. So, you know, you could probably be a little nicer to Sony.
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FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
AstroBot is probably the most creative game Sony has put out in the last decade and it's the most creative game this generation if you ask me.
While I agree with the too many remasters and chasing trends sentiment we can't ignore the genuinely amazing stuff they've either released or partnered to release.
If Sony has uncreative leadership what kind of leadership is at MS and Nintendo lately? Those guys play it way safer than Sony.
While I agree with the too many remasters and chasing trends sentiment we can't ignore the genuinely amazing stuff they've either released or partnered to release.
If Sony has uncreative leadership what kind of leadership is at MS and Nintendo lately? Those guys play it way safer than Sony.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
I've never known a games company to push push so much hardware and accessories without new games to match it.
Sega was bad for this but they constantly releasing great games.
Now I ain't saying Sony hasn't released anything.
But let get this straight.
Sony has released everything they had planned at the launch of the PS5.
And that's great
But with the release of the PS5 Pro we are at the halfway line if not further into the PS5 life cycle.
And since 2021 they have released more accessories and PC ports then new games for the PS5.
it's bad.
And I don't believe everything I hear but I wouldn't be surprised if the rumours that Jim was forced to resign because of this are true.
Sega was bad for this but they constantly releasing great games.
Now I ain't saying Sony hasn't released anything.
But let get this straight.
Sony has released everything they had planned at the launch of the PS5.
And that's great
But with the release of the PS5 Pro we are at the halfway line if not further into the PS5 life cycle.
And since 2021 they have released more accessories and PC ports then new games for the PS5.
it's bad.
And I don't believe everything I hear but I wouldn't be surprised if the rumours that Jim was forced to resign because of this are true.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Honest truth; Concord was truly tone-deaf. They released a me-too product and got "mee-tooed".
I understand its a hugely lucrative market, and a highly competitve one for this type of product, but the creative sucked, it excited noone. Certainly not even among the demographic they were trying to court. I'd be looking very hard at Fairgame$ right now.
I understand its a hugely lucrative market, and a highly competitve one for this type of product, but the creative sucked, it excited noone. Certainly not even among the demographic they were trying to court. I'd be looking very hard at Fairgame$ right now.
FalconPunch
Member
It’s truly starting to feel that way. People think I’m hating on PlayStation but it’s actually the opposite. The sooner you notice cancer and begin treatment, the better the chances of a positive outcome. Now I’m not saying it’s doom and gloom for Sony but there’s evident rot beginning to develop. It needs to be addressed because if left to fester, the results will be disastrous for the console gaming industry as a whole. For me, Sony is the bench mark of console gaming in that they’re the most consistent. All 4 gens prior to this have consistently delivered good games and genre defining games in a timely manner.
With the ps5, it seems that the innovation is fading and the company is too safe. Part of it is due to the large budgets being spent on games but that’s a self imposed problem. The risks they’re taking are bad and would only be taken by someone who knows nothing about gaming. Every company has a role to fill. Nintendo has their role to fill, Sony has their role to fill, etc. This doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try something new but, don’t neglect your primary role. When I look at the games released for ps5, barring returnal, astrobot, and gt7, Sony has failed its audience in delivering what they expect from them. It needs to be addressed.
Moriarty1889
Member
There are lots of franchises Sony could have brought back imo. Resistance, Killzone, Infamous to name a few. They have done much better in previous gens in terms of delivering great games. This gen has been lackluster to say the least and remasters are all to commonplace. I think Jim definitely was a big part of all of this and his focus on live service shite has come back to bite them in the ass. Hopefully they can right the ship the rest of the gen and get back to what they once were. Either way, in terms of competition, they have not had much and have released more and better games than their main competitor Xbox. Astrobot looks to be GOTY material and a throwback to those great Playstation platformers of previous gens. So either way, that’s a bit of fresh air needed after the shite that was Concord.
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RCU005
Member
These responses upset me, because it's like if it was black or white and nothing in between.
Helldivers 2 is not made by Sony. Rise of the Ronin is not made by Sony. Stellar Blade is not made by Sony
Sony has NOT been more innovative this gen compared to PS4, let alone "far more". Just compare the QUALITY releases MADE BY SONY from PS3 and PS4, then compare the QUANTITY of releases. This generation has been dead when it comes to SONY.
The PS5 has great games! a lot of them, but third party is the one carrying the console's success this time, NOT SONY.
OP is 100% right when stating that Sony is focusing on chasing trends and the mythological GaaS golden goose.
While I do consider Horizon and Killzone amazing games and not boring, those are games that originated from LAST GENS. How many new IPs from SONY have there been on PS5? Returnal, ...
The PS3 struggled so much since day one, but still got so many amazing games since the first month.
New IPs from Sony on PS3: Uncharted, inFamous, LittleBigPlanet, The Last of Us, Motorstorm, Resistance, and more.
What have they done this gen?
FalconPunch
Member
Unfortunately, they've lost their bearings.
ShadyAcshuns
Member
Long time PlayStation fanboy extraordinaire Erick Landon on PS5 Pro:
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Hypereides
Gold Member
He isn't a "shitty animator". He's just an uncreative, unimaginative and visionless cardboard cut-out. He has nothing interesting to offer and its clear in most of Sony's output since he's overseeing the WW studios.
I got your answer: barely much. The only ones who don't like to hear this are the zealot fanboys. Those that'll act like Sony's personal bodyguards online if someone as much as "dares" to point some criticism towards them.
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killatopak
Gold Member
Sony is incredibly creative.
The issue is their priorities which is clearly gaas.
The issue is their priorities which is clearly gaas.
Bruno_Arrais85
Member
This is gold
Loomy
Thinks Microaggressions are Real
For them to keep making those games, people have to buy them. And the reality is that they don't.
Just watch the reactions during a state of play or showcase when they show anything other than a high concept AAA game. You'll see things like "trash", "Waste of time", "PS4 game", etc.
pasterpl
Member
Pentiment, flight sim, south of midnight, grounded, avowed, Indiana jones, blade, starfield, ara, as dusk falls, everwild, redfall, hi-fi rush - yes, playing it so safe.
ByWatterson
Member
Helldivers and Astrobot by themselves make this a great year.
Add on third party exclusives and it's outrageously good.
Add on third party exclusives and it's outrageously good.
bitbydeath
Member
I’d say the issue is their communication. GaaS is being upheld by only a small number of teams and we don’t know much of what anyone else is doing. We only know about GaaS because it is a new push.
LordOcidax
Member
I didn’t know that Sony was the leader in creativity in the video game industry… 
Del_X
Member
If Sony is the one missing creative leadership, what does that make Nintendo and MS?
Sony being the only one with diverse lineup covering most types of games!
Your basis is flawed and biased. Close this thread
Just because everyone else is lazy doesn’t excuse the endless parade of gaming slop on Sony’s side.
Omnipunctual Godot
Gold Member
I really miss the Shu, Boyes, and Tretton halcyon days.
Unrivaledx88
Member
So what is Xbox missing lollll
DeleteriousObnoxious
Member
Im just happy i waited till 2024 to complete The Last Guardian "for the first time" the creative output drought is real.
I had respect for sony back in 2016 when they were doing there part in sustaining the creative input from ambitious game designers and not just trying to get with trends copy other ideas or rehash old ideas for new audiences.
We need ambitious creative inputs for the industry not to feel stale. What sony is doing now is delivering a short term profit gain, however the strategy will most likely become increasingly less profitable in the long term due to slowly decreasing our excitement for their products.
I still have some games i wanna enjoy from sony but they are nearly all old games until astro bot nothing have remotely been interesting to me of their newer outputs. Astro bot reminds me of the legacy sony had now they have become like microsoft tasteless and bland.
such a shame. I owned all sony playstations and their handhelds I have always prioritized sony products before microsoft and nintendo
the respect for sony is gone now. But their legacy is still alive Team Ico, Studio liverpool, Evolution studios, Japan Studios.
at least we can still enjoy what is behind us.
I had respect for sony back in 2016 when they were doing there part in sustaining the creative input from ambitious game designers and not just trying to get with trends copy other ideas or rehash old ideas for new audiences.
We need ambitious creative inputs for the industry not to feel stale. What sony is doing now is delivering a short term profit gain, however the strategy will most likely become increasingly less profitable in the long term due to slowly decreasing our excitement for their products.
I still have some games i wanna enjoy from sony but they are nearly all old games until astro bot nothing have remotely been interesting to me of their newer outputs. Astro bot reminds me of the legacy sony had now they have become like microsoft tasteless and bland.
such a shame. I owned all sony playstations and their handhelds I have always prioritized sony products before microsoft and nintendo
the respect for sony is gone now. But their legacy is still alive Team Ico, Studio liverpool, Evolution studios, Japan Studios.
at least we can still enjoy what is behind us.
fallingdove
Member
*Cough* Bullshit
Nintendo plays it very safe. Then once every couple of generations they will try something different with a Pikmin or a Splatoon.
The real reason Nintendo are so good is not because they take risks but they have been subtly refining the same gameplay mechanics for 40 years.
samstrajack
Neo Member
All the bad news around their GaaS initiatives would be a much easier pill to swallow if we simply knew the state of what some of the key first party studios were working on. At this point in the PS4 generation, we knew about everything that was coming for the rest of the generation. As it stands right now, we don't even know what's coming next year.
PSYGN
Member
Yeah, the choices a lot of these gaming companies have been making the past 5-10 years have been highly questionable and tone-deaf. Like flies to shit they all gravitate to whatever's currently being hyped and pedaled at wallstreet. Of course Battlefield would be showing off AI stuff in their investor call, the idiots at wallstreet slurp that shit up - just a few years ago it was NFT. A lot of the c-suite must be made from these parasitic and vulturistic idiots looking for short term gains constantly. I guess they don't have to pretend to care anymore these days right? Just trample on your own customers to reach the next quarterly report.
I understand that maybe the game companies are trying to fool investors (must work if they keep doing this?), but that should not be the core of your business decisions. Make great games and people will follow. Invest back in your brand and your customers and they will invest back in you. Trust your developers to do what they are best at especially ones that have a track record. Stop chasing the 1% on wallstreet or Twitter who will shit on your face the moment you stray from their narrative or playbook. Look at the companies that are succeeding... the ones who stay out of politics and focus on their craft and their customers. Look at the ones failing... the ones that fooled themselves into trying to make a quick buck and chasing trends.
I too am worried about Sony. You'd think they would've snapped out of it by now. Maybe Concord was the wakeup call trailed by two remasters no one even would've thought to ask for. I don't think it's arrogant Sony these days, I think it's ignorant Sony ran by executives who don't know what the fuck they are doing. It seems the western division of Sony has really lost the plot and you see glimmers of old Sony through Astrobot and a few other games. I hope Sony (and many other companies) wake up soon. I think they'll have no choice to as money on wallstreet wanes and the customers are being tired of being trickle fed the same shit.
I understand that maybe the game companies are trying to fool investors (must work if they keep doing this?), but that should not be the core of your business decisions. Make great games and people will follow. Invest back in your brand and your customers and they will invest back in you. Trust your developers to do what they are best at especially ones that have a track record. Stop chasing the 1% on wallstreet or Twitter who will shit on your face the moment you stray from their narrative or playbook. Look at the companies that are succeeding... the ones who stay out of politics and focus on their craft and their customers. Look at the ones failing... the ones that fooled themselves into trying to make a quick buck and chasing trends.
I too am worried about Sony. You'd think they would've snapped out of it by now. Maybe Concord was the wakeup call trailed by two remasters no one even would've thought to ask for. I don't think it's arrogant Sony these days, I think it's ignorant Sony ran by executives who don't know what the fuck they are doing. It seems the western division of Sony has really lost the plot and you see glimmers of old Sony through Astrobot and a few other games. I hope Sony (and many other companies) wake up soon. I think they'll have no choice to as money on wallstreet wanes and the customers are being tired of being trickle fed the same shit.
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SyedDanishAnwar
Member
What Sony is really missing is leadership that is in touch with the consumer base i.e. gamers. They are soley chasing profit (and conforming to DEI is part of it) instead of taking time to listen what gamers in general really want. They are trying to win the compeition (gobbling up studios and thus destrying creativity) at the cost of what the target market really want.
While profit is good, these leaders seem to forget the main lesson that at the end of the day customer is king. They need to respect the wishes of customers if they want to thrive again. They need to cut operational costs not by firing but financial engineering and reducing the pays of the top guys.
Without these similar visionary changes, Sony is poised to fail similar to the TV and smartphone market. I won't have any sympathy for their demise as these stuip idiots don't seem to care for us gamers.
While profit is good, these leaders seem to forget the main lesson that at the end of the day customer is king. They need to respect the wishes of customers if they want to thrive again. They need to cut operational costs not by firing but financial engineering and reducing the pays of the top guys.
Without these similar visionary changes, Sony is poised to fail similar to the TV and smartphone market. I won't have any sympathy for their demise as these stuip idiots don't seem to care for us gamers.
solidus12
Member
Hermen breathes through his skin
dragonyeuw
Member
I find it weird how, on the topic of ignoring consumer wishes, it's like they're going out of their way to ignore Bloodborne( unless there is something on the horizon that even the leakers don't know about yet) but giving us Zero Dawn and Days gone remasters?! Two games that already play great on PS5 and the latter of which certainly isn't enough of a fan favorite to justify remaster money( and if they're hellbent on making it a thing then why not do a sequel)?
This is the worst 1st party gen Sony has ever had imo. It’s telling how biased Sony fanboys are to just start realizing this now.
They have not created one new 1st party game that will spawn a franchise so far. Really hoping this changes in the back half as I used to love their output. They have been milking their ps4 goodwill for too long.
Granted I did love returnal. But I honestly don’t see that getting a sequel given the low sales.
They have not created one new 1st party game that will spawn a franchise so far. Really hoping this changes in the back half as I used to love their output. They have been milking their ps4 goodwill for too long.
Granted I did love returnal. But I honestly don’t see that getting a sequel given the low sales.
yurinka
Member
Yes, they are well set up for the future:
- Their active console userbase is bigger than ever
- Half of PS5 console sales are from new users and the majority of their userbase still has to upgrade
- ARPU and amount of games sold per PS5 are all time records
- Revenue from game subs is on all time records and keeps growing
- Revenue from accesories is also at all time records and growing
- They're also more successful than ever wth movies/tv shows and are growing there too with many projects in the works
- Their first party games won a lot of awards, broke their fastest selling record 3 of the 4 most recent years, and in recent years acquired studios and several of the previous ones hired people to grow enough to make 2-4 games at the same time instead of one as did in the past
- They started to expand in PC, keep growing its revenue a lot every year and already are one of the top 10 publishers on Steam history with less than two dozen games
- They are growing in MP/GaaS, which has the majority of the gaming userbase and revenue, and found great success in GT7, MLB, Helldivers 2 and Destiny 2 so far.
- Hermen signed a record investment for 2nd parties for this gen
- Jimbo signed more 3rd party exclusives for the rest of the generation that they had in the previous ones
- They are working to further grow in the future in mobile too
Sony has been greatly successful this year with Helldivers 2, The Final Shape, and Astro Bot. And in their context, MLB, Stellar Blade and Rise of the Ronin.
GT7, MLB, Helldivers 2, Destiny 2 are very successful. 3 out of 15+ GaaS got cancelled and one tanked. They handled it pretty well so far.
They don't rely on remasters at all. They release a lot of new games every year, both 1st party plus 3rd party exclusives.
No, at all. SIE/PS is performing better than ever in most metrics. The Xbox console is in the shit, but the MS gaming division is doing steps that will improve their business and would turn it into a profitable one.
Sure, Jan. Fatige is so big that Spiderman 2 was Sony's fastest selling game ever. And Wolverine will sell even more.
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SyedDanishAnwar
Member
Cool. Now, let's look at your points with a critical and objective lens.
- ARPU and Game Sales: While record-breaking ARPU and game sales are encouraging, they need to be evaluated in the context of rising game development costs and inflation. It's also crucial to assess the sustainability of these figures in the long term. Sony recently squandered $400 million on a failed woke infested game. I don't think this hit-and-miss policy is sustainable.
- MP/GaaS Growth: While the MP/GaaS market is lucrative, it's highly competitive and requires significant investment in ongoing development and content updates to maintain player engagement. Again, failure of Concord and many other similar games show it's a risky venture.
- PC Expansion: Although expanding into the PC market offers new opportunities, it also introduces competition from established PC publishers and potential cannibalization of console sales. I don't see any utility in owning a console as all games are on PC. Even mid range rigs like 4060 and 4070 can meet or even exceed the performance of a PS5.
- Mobile Expansion: While mobile gaming is a massive market, it's also saturated and presents challenges in terms of monetization and user acquisition. Sony's success in this space is yet to be proven.
- About Hermen signing a record investment for 2nd parties for this gen: A large investment doesn't guarantee successful games. The quality, critical reception, and commercial performance of these second-party titles will ultimately determine their value.
- Multiplayer is geo-locked and not free.
- Rising Development Costs: As game development becomes more expensive, Sony may face challenges maintaining a steady stream of high-quality exclusive titles.
- Box Office Struggles: Several Sony Pictures releases have underperformed at the box office, potentially leading to financial losses and a decline in confidence in the brand.
- Lack of Critical Acclaim Exclusive Games this Gen: While some game releases have been successful, Sony studio has struggled to consistently produce critically acclaimed games this gen similar to past gen. No LOU, Uncharted, MGS, etc. type hit games from Sony.
- While Sony has seen some success with releases like Helldivers 2, The Final Shape, and Astro Bot, it's important to note that these titles appeal to niche audiences and may not have significantly impacted overall console sales or revenue. In the broader context, MLB, Stellar Blade, and Rise of the Ronin face stiff competition from other major releases and struggled to achieve widespread commercial success.
- Although GT7 has enjoyed notable success, and Destiny 2 continues to maintain a dedicated player base, the overall picture for Sony's foray into the GaaS (Games as a Service) market is less rosy. MLB The Show, while popular within its niche, has limited appeal compared to broader genres. Helldivers 2, despite its potential, has received mixed reviews and may struggle to achieve long-term player engagement. Concord was a massive half a billion dollar failure. How can you say they are handling it well?
TLDR: Focusing solely on positive metrics can create a misleading picture of the company's overall position and future prospects. The lack of decent library of exclusives similar to the previous gens make this console an unneeded accessory. Even a similarly priced desktop PC can play games at similar graphics to a PS5 Pro.So, what's the point of owning PS or even Xbox console if all games are available on PC?
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RetroGamingUK
Member
The whole console vs PC debate has been going on for decades, both have pros and cons
PC
+ Upgradability
+ Open system
+ Mods
+ Emulators
Console
+ Simplicity and ease of use
+ Price
+ Physical media
+ Guaranteed game compatibility and performance
Apart from both sides having fewer exclusives, it’s the same as it was 30 years ago
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SyedDanishAnwar
Member
Let me expand your points a bit:
PC
+ Upgradability
+ Open system
+ Mods
+ Emulators
+ Work (Video edit, photoshop, etc.)
+ Guaranteed game compatibility in case of popular Nvidia cards
+ Performance above 60 fps and superior to PS5 even with mid-range PCs (4060/4070).
+ Low priced games at Steam, Gog, Epic
+ More variety of games
+ No fee for multiplayer; not geo-locked
+ Games can be shared with friends (Gog)
Console
+ Simplicity
+ Price
+ Ease of use
+ Guaranteed game compatibility and performance
Clearly, the pros of a PC are far more than consoles. But the main thing is majority of average middle class people all over the world can afford a PC. And they don't see much value in a console this gen due to meagre exclusives. Unless you are poor and can't afford a gaming PC, console gamine does not look like a good value proposition.
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RetroGamingUK
Member
See these are things that matter to YOU.
It’s like when Android users boast about the modification and more open features while ranting about how iPhones are closed.
And the iPhone users don’t give a toss because those things don’t appeal to them.