Hmm....
Part of this week's what's update.
Best Mister Chief ever.
http://www.bungie.net/News/TopStory.aspx?story=whatsupdatedec03
Bungie: Halo's 2 ending "intentional" (not rushed)
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
Hmm....
Part of this week's what's update.
Best Mister Chief ever.
http://www.bungie.net/News/TopStory.aspx?story=whatsupdatedec03
Littleberu
Banned
So you really thought they would have said : "Of course we rushed it! And we hate you and your mom too!" ?
strikeselect
You like me, you really really like me!
Another week passes by and they continue to ignore the outcry for a method of joining public custom games.
Nice evasion Bungie.
Nice evasion Bungie.
Mr_Furious
Member
After a year and a half into development and all there is to show is a "throw away" demo (referring to E3 2k3)? If you watch the making of video that came with the CE version, they even admitted that they had NO game at all after E3 2k3. What we got was a game that essentially took 1.5 years to make. The 1st 1.5 years was probably spent on tech and old design (that probably got redone multiple times). The single player experience is not representative of 3 years of development and you can tell by the modular level designs that they cut corners in order to maximize mileage. That's my take and I'm sticking to it. About 2 years ago, a Bungie employee (don't know if he's still there), interviewed with the company I worked for (then) and he "enlightened" us about some of the goings on at Bungie at the time. I won't go into details but he didn't paint a pretty picture.Ramirez said:
What dev doesn't want more time though?The game seems complete enough to me,but just because they chose a non traditional ending everyone thinks they ran out of time or some shit.
Stuff gets dropped,I think they showed to much personally before they were even sure it would work.Stuff like the ATV,Snowmobile Warthog,etc. what purpose would it really serve in the game?
Stuff gets dropped,I think they showed to much personally before they were even sure it would work.Stuff like the ATV,Snowmobile Warthog,etc. what purpose would it really serve in the game?
Littleberu
Banned
Ramirez said:
Earth levels?
Mermandala
Member
The ending was fine, if it frustrates people so much they can release aggression on Live.
+ Infinite Junk for use of Katamari!
If only a Katamari mode could become as ubiquitous in every game as the Big Head code once was. Halo 2, GTA:SA, MGS 3 ALL could benefit by allowing me to just run around and stick all the crap in the level together. FUN!
+ Infinite Junk for use of Katamari!
If only a Katamari mode could become as ubiquitous in every game as the Big Head code once was. Halo 2, GTA:SA, MGS 3 ALL could benefit by allowing me to just run around and stick all the crap in the level together. FUN!
Littleberu
Banned
Ramirez said:
Earth. Levels.
Littleberu
Banned
Ramirez said:
Earth Levels?
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
Sean said:
well he wouldnt know that cause he doesnt have an xbox.
i don't know how the fact that things were cut has been inflated into the idea that there's a phantom third act we didn't get. the ending does make it feel like there's a level missing, though.
and of course it was never intended that the entire game or the bulk of the game would take place on earth. even early on we heard about levels on another halo, on a covenant homeworld, above a gas giant, levels on the moon that never materialized.
and of course it was never intended that the entire game or the bulk of the game would take place on earth. even early on we heard about levels on another halo, on a covenant homeworld, above a gas giant, levels on the moon that never materialized.
Littleberu
Banned
Sean said:
And that's it. For a game that was supposed to be on Earth, there isn't a lot of Earth levels.
"That wasn't supposed to be on Earth, loloololol"
Yes it was, from the beginning it was anyway. Where is this invasion we see in the teaser? In Halo 3? Tsc.
Oh and guys, shut up about : :"He doesn't have an Xbox, so he's ignorant!!!" You know, there's this thing, outside of the forums and the interweb, that are called FRIENDS. You know. With 2.5 millions copies on the first day, don't you think one of my friends bought the game? I mean, really.
Littleberu said:
which they had, then they cut because they realized they "weren't fun."
And I agree, what developer doesn't want more time to finish a game? That's a general problem in the industry as a whole, and in reality in software in general. Hell, I'm a business software consultant and 95% of the time I find myself wishing I had a larger budget so I could spend more time developing exactly what the customer wants, but it's not reasonable. So you find a balance and you do what is best.
Littleberu
Banned
Nerevar said:
Yeah, just cut what isn't fun! DON'T FIX IT! Just cut it. What the fuck, did Bungie hypnotize you or something?
Littleberu said:
They made the mistake of revealing too many "features" too early. When games are created, a whole lot of the generated content never actually gets used in the final product. This happens with almost every game release...
The difference is that we generally don't ever KNOW about the things that are cut. I think people were hungry for info and Bungie felt that it was OK to talk about features, as it didn't really spoil anything. They really made a HUGE mistake by doing that, though...
It's often shocking when you see how much stuff is cut from most games. Prince of Persia - Sands of Time had a whole bunch of areas, several bosses, and other content that was cut for various reasons. Who knows what else they DIDN'T talk about. Most devs never even give us ANY info regarding content that was cut.
In the case of the Earth levels, I highly doubt they "cut" them at all. They seemed so intent of saving various suprises for us that they essentially fooled the consumers into expecting something that was never a part of the plan. If you read early interviews, the final game actually lines up perfectly with their game plan. They always had intended to fight on another Halo as well as the Covenant homeworld. The game was not intended to revolve around the earth invasion. They simply created that campaign to suprise people. They should have realized that it is a VERY BAD idea to do that, though. I enjoy those types of suprises, but if MGS2 is anything to go by, a lot of people do not.
I hope you aren't sore about that E3 level missing from the final game, though. That was a short segment that was designed to show off many features. Things like The Brutes would not have even been a part of that scenario. Not only that, they did exactly what YOU wanted them to do; they fixed it! They said that E3 level was not fun. So they FIXED IT!
you know, playing the game, it never even occured to me that people would want more earth levels. i thought the best parts of the game were on delta halo. the ad campaign is misleading, but i enjoyed the way the game put the taglines in a new context. "there are those who said this day would never come..." etc.
i see shorthand criticisms emerging, though. "well, at least the multiplayer is good." that one strikes me as false - the single player is better still. certainly it isn't one of those games like mario kart that really only exist for multiplayer. "where are the earth levels" i just find perplexing.
i see shorthand criticisms emerging, though. "well, at least the multiplayer is good." that one strikes me as false - the single player is better still. certainly it isn't one of those games like mario kart that really only exist for multiplayer. "where are the earth levels" i just find perplexing.
Mr_Furious
Member
It's a known fact that majority of video game ending are crap. At least in Halo 1 you can tell the "end" was near due to the game ramping up to the climactic final level driving out of the exploding level. With Halo 2, there was no "ramping" and sure as hell no "climax". The game flatlined at a steady pace and then abruptly stops literally.Kuroyume said:
It's fine to have a cliffhanger to whet the apetite for the eventual sequel but Halo 2 got cut off mid-sentence. No exciting last level or climactic battle with some kind of boss.
Littleberu said:
No. That's how good dev companies work. Read up on Valve, they do the same shit. Develop stuff. If it isn't fun, get rid of it and do something else. Trying to fix something that is fundamentally broken and "isn't fun" is why we have so much shit on the market nowadays. Nice trolling, though.
The invasion in the teaser they clearly changed. They modified that entire scene. But they've been saying FOR YEARS now that the game would not all be on Earth. Specifically, they said there would be a new Halo (which I think everybody just assumed would happen anyway even if they didn't say anything about it), which you had to know would take up a large percentage of the game, and they also confirmed the gas giant back then too. They also said you would fight on Covenant territory. All of these are things they said YEARS ago and have, in fact, made it into the final game.Littleberu said:
Of course, I also seem to remember them talking about jungle, desert, and snow levels on Earth (and how you would have different Warthogs adapted to those environments) waaaaay back when they first unveilled the game in EGM or whatever magazine it was. But I guess you can't have everything.
Littleberu
Banned
But PoP things were cut because they didn't have TIME. Now, don't tell me they didn't have enough time with Halo 2.
Littleberu said:
Read my update, they basically DID fix it by completely redesigning it.
As noted in Nerevar's post, Valve does the same thing. Remember Half-Life? Yeah, they designed an entire game only to realize that it wasn't fun. They ended up scrapping basically everything and remaking it all. NONE of the early HL screenshots represented the final product. It's the same thing here...
If you think about it in a way, if Halo 2 had been willed with only Earth levels, wouldn't there be a lot of urban combat. With this urban combat, it would feel like every other terrorist hunt on the consoles, except you use alien technology to kill the evil doers. Quite frankly, I think taking the Cheif off of Earth, introducing Delta Halo, the Arc, and Gravemind would take quite a while. If they tore the earth levels out, do you really think they could have included these polished areas in so quickly? I was dissapointed in the ending, but the more I think of it, the more I like it. It leaves so many possibillities open. I can just sit here and think of what the first level of Halo 3 will be like, and who knows, we may get another set of books.
Littleberu said:
Wrong, it was known as far back as 2003 that the game would take place on another halo and a space station hovering above a gas giant, as well as on earth. Bungie never said earth would be the focus of the game, people just drew that conclustion because that's all bungie could SHOW without spoiling the rest of it.
Ironclad_Ninja said:
I agree. However, the XBOX crowd seems to have been raised in the ways of Tom Clancy. They want their military stuff, damn it! I'm so SICK of these "war games". Thankfully, Halo 2's earth levels managed to avoid falling into the pit o' generic war game...
Littleberu
Banned
dark10x said:
Yeah, and I didn't say it was right to do so. False advertising sucks. Yeah, I like it when a game can surprise me, but not when it completely change the story, and force you to play another character. Seriously, Halo 2 shouldn't even feature Masterchief. The story was forced with Masterchief, it didn't seem to go anywhere until the Arbiter.
Oh and I still believe it wouldn't have been that hard to keep the Earth Levels. Like you all said, they talked about another Halo, and everything, but they also talked a lot about Earth and how it would change terrain and such.
Ok, so Bungie are genius because they hid everything, lost precious developpement time for a false E3 level to demonstrate things that could've been shown in a true level and made you believe that the game would be set on earth? Wow. I didn't know lying made you a genius.
Mr. Lemming
Member
Cerrius said:
Actually they haven't ignored it, they pretty much said they didn't think people would give their system a chance if they offered a typical server selection system, and that their system provides enough benefits to make it worthwhile. I'll try to dig up the exact quote.
Mr_Furious
Member
Cutting content out of a game is par for the course but rarely is it the ending. Halo 2 ending just feels like Bungie ran out of time and had to wrap it up in order to make Xmas 2004. I've seen it before with Baldur's Gate: DA and a close friend of mine admitted to me that they essentially cut the game in half with a "to be continued..." by order of Interplay. I think the same occured between Bungie and MS because the ending feels like the EXACT same formula.dark10x said:
Littleberu said:
There weren't any Earth levels to KEEP!!!! That E3 demo was f*cking it! They didn't make some massive Earth campaign here. They followed their original design pretty closely.
If you don't like the character swapping, that's fine, but I happened to love it (and so did many others). I enjoyed it with MGS2 and I enjoyed it here.
Littleberu
Banned
Ecrofirt said:
And you really aren't arguing, are you?