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California Ballot Propositions - Fall 2012 Election Edition

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Cyan

Banned
What are the chances 30 passes? My college is about to make some serious cuts otherwise..

It's not looking great. It's at under 50% approval, and undecideds apparently tend to vote no on this sort of thing.

It was actually in pretty good shape until September, when the Mungers started pouring cash into the anti-30 campaign. Along with some anti-tax group in Arizona.

I wish our neighbor states would stop trying to fuck with our elections. I'm still pissed at the Mormons for Prop 8.
 

Zhengi

Member
They voted to approve funds for building the first piece of the HSR, not the entire project. If they can just deny the whole project by a simple legislature vote, why was it even on the ballot?

I'm not sure if you are trying to be dense on purpose or not. Of course they approved the funds for building the first piece. If they stopped funding for the first part of it, then they are essentially stopping funding for the whole thing. They had the power to do that, but instead, they voted to continue the project. You can't build the whole thing without starting from the beginning.
 

Cyan

Banned
I'm not sure if you are trying to be dense on purpose or not. Of course they approved the funds for building the first piece. If they stopped funding for the first part of it, then they are essentially stopping funding for the whole thing. They had the power to do that, but instead, they voted to continue the project. You can't build the whole thing without starting from the beginning.

Are you being a dick on purpose? I dunno, sometimes these things happen.

Again, if they can just stop it at any time, why was it on the ballot? My understanding is that once we passed it, it became the legislature's duty to enact it. If this is somehow wrong, please provide a source.
 

Zhengi

Member
Are you being a dick on purpose? I dunno, sometimes these things happen.

Again, if they can just stop it at any time, why was it on the ballot? My understanding is that once we passed it, it became the legislature's duty to enact it. If this is somehow wrong, please provide a source.

There is nothing in the proposition that requires the legislature to enact it. If you believe so, please provide your research that it is necessary to enact it. I provided you a source where the legislature voted by a margin of 21-16 to allow funding for the first part of the project. If the legislature had voted the other way 21-16, then funding would not have been given to start the project. Please, explain why they would even have a vote if the proposition required the legislature to enact the project. That doesn't even make sense.
 

Cyan

Banned
There is nothing in the proposition that requires the legislature to enact it. If you believe so, please provide your research that it is necessary to enact it. I provided you a source where the legislature voted by a margin of 21-16 to allow funding for the first part of the project. If the legislature had voted the other way 21-16, then funding would not have been given to start the project. Please, explain why they would even have a vote if the proposition required the legislature to enact the project. That doesn't even make sense.

My assumption was that if the vote failed, they would have to try again from a different starting point or face legal action.

If I'm wrong on a question of fact--and it appears I may be, after some looking--it's not that hard to point it out without being insulting.
 

desh

Member
Ok, Measure J is confusing me. On ballotpedia it states that "If Measure J is approved, a one-half cent sales tax that is already being paid on the sales of goods and services in Los Angeles County will continue for another 30 years. The current one-half cent sales tax was approved by voters in 2008 as Measure R. Measure R is set to expire in 2039."

So, does this just ensure that this extra sales tax continues from 2039 to 2042 (30 years from now)? It appears that Measure R from 2008 already has it covered until 2039.
 
Ok, Measure J is confusing me. On ballotpedia it states that "If Measure J is approved, a one-half cent sales tax that is already being paid on the sales of goods and services in Los Angeles County will continue for another 30 years. The current one-half cent sales tax was approved by voters in 2008 as Measure R. Measure R is set to expire in 2039."

So, does this just ensure that this extra sales tax continues from 2039 to 2042 (30 years from now)? It appears that Measure R from 2008 already has it covered until 2039.

It extends it to 2069.

LA Times said:
Measure J wouldn't increase anybody's taxes, but it would extend the tax approved under Measure R for another 30 years — from its current expiration date of 2039 to 2069. That would allow transit managers to borrow money on the bond market in the near future to be repaid from anticipated tax revenues that would roll in after 2039, which should allow them to accelerate construction on a list of up to 15 projects that were already in the works thanks to Measure R. What this means is that, ideally, the projects could be completed in a matter of years rather than decades.
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/endorsements/la-ed-end-measurej-20121014,0,3496525.story
 

etiolate

Banned
No, the problem is that due to the proposition system, voters have voted for unfunded initiatives for the last 30 years and none of the states revenues go to where they are needed.

This. Too many Wishful Dream Yes votes for things that are too costly. The state has to find funds for past bloated initiatives.












Oh god, what am I doing in a political thread.
 

desh

Member
Ok Gaf (Cyan), edumicate me on Prop 39. It states that multi-state businesses will be taxed by California proportional to the amount of business they do in California. Question: Will they also be taxed by other states for the business that they do in California?
 

Cyan

Banned
Ok Gaf (Cyan), edumicate me on Prop 39. It states that multi-state businesses will be taxed by California proportional to the amount of business they do in California. Question: Will they also be taxed by other states for the business that they do in California?

Generally not. I would expect that if they're domiciled in a state that taxes all their income no matter where it came from, that state would give them a tax credit for taxes paid in CA. I'm not sure if that holds true for all 50 states, though.
 

Babalu.

Member
So far this is what i've gotten from a couple days of study.

30 - YES. As i'm going to school right now, i cannot let them cut even more. Yes it sucks that it is just more money for the state to use for anything, but its better then decimating the education system even further.

31 - Not Sure

32 - NO. Being in a union you knew about them taking money out. Unions>Super PACS.

33 - NO. Sure I always plan to have insurance and always have, but I know people who have not. Why should they have to pay more if they decided to drop insurance for medical or other reasons. I might get a discount but i'de rather not make others have to pay more just for that.

34 - YES. This one is a bit iffy because will it really save money in the long run. Does having inmates take P.E. really count as the "work" that they will be required to do. I'm not to confident in the outcomes of either way.

35 - NO. Way too broad. Police allowed to check your internet history forever? No thanks. Anyone who has even been to 4chan probably has some CP thumbnail or temp file someone on their computer by accident.

36 - YES. Who would vote no on this? The 3 strikes law was MEANT to be for violent or serious crimes. A life sentence for possession, petty theft, or other stupid things like that seem like crazy talk.

37 - Still undecided. I can see the pro's and cons and this one might just be a gametime decision as I stand at the booth.

38 - NO. Wayyy to much for waayyyy too long. 12 years is a long ass time.

39 - YES. If you do business in california, you have to pay your california dues. You cant have your cake and eat it too. While this might hurt some businesses, its really a non factor for most.

40 - YES. Both sides say yes.

A - YES. Can anyone even name the current LA County Assessor. No. But they probably voted for or against him last time.

B - NO. No condoms in my porn. TYVM. They will just move to the next county anyways if this passes.

J - YES. Infrastructure now rather then later. I don't notice the half cent tax now, let it continue.


Still looking for arguments for and against 31 and 37. Especially 37. Anyone got any opinions on them?
 

AMUSIX

Member
It should be noted that LA Times changed their Prop 35 support from a yes to a no:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion...35-human-trafficking-20121029,0,5826639.story

Sort of what I was saying earlier in this thread. Prop 35, while well intentioned, has too many flaws.

Its provisions that widen the definition of prostitution to include any exchange of money or things and services of value will have the unintended consequences of reducing the amount of money paid by traffickers to the victims to zero in an attempt to avoid prosecution. - that results in slave labor.

The other really bad provision is that it guts the rights of victims to sue for unpaid wages. Most human trafficking does not occur in the sex trade - the vast majority is the clothing and meat packing industries where wages are paid on a very onerous piece work basis that results in less than minimum wage or just outright slavery. One of the most powerful tools currently available to fight human trafficking - civil lawsuits and attachment of traffickers property - would be replaced by a restitution fund for victims. Traditionally, restitution funds pay about 1% of what the claim would otherwise be worth.

Please note that human trafficking does not require the transport of the victim against his will. That is kidnaping and while certainly that frequently also occurs in human trafficking, the vast majority of victims are duped into it on the promise of a better life.

There are serious constitutional issues regarding admissibility of evidence in a criminal trial and internet privacy.

Lastly, any prostitute or anyone caught with a prostitute would potentially get labelled 'sex offenders'. This fucks up the ability to locate and track real sex offenders like rapists and child molesters.
 

davepoobond

you can't put a price on sparks
yes on 30 - universities are not included in prop 38. not to mention prop 30 also does other things

no on 31 - its stupid

no on 32 - anti-union. corporations dont take money out of employee's paychecks for political purposes anyway

no on 33 - penalizes for lapse in coverage if you arent driving a car

yes on 34 - im on the fence about it, but its not like we put the death penalty to use that much anyway. putting prisoners to work seems like a better option, i guess.

abstain on 35 - i didnt really know what to think about this one. im for making penalties harsher but the other parts of the bill sort of made me question it. i couldnt really make a decision. i feel like its one of those bills that will pass just because, though.

yes on 36 - i dont think going to jail for a minor offense as your 3rd makes any sense. it isnt for "all" crimes -- only non-violent crimes. Plus we have way too many people in prison.

no on 37 - no point. i dont care if something is genetically altered or not. "organic" foods are just as much of questionable worth as genetic altering.

no on 38 - conflicts with 30, provides no funding to higher education.

yes on 39 - felt like it was a fair enough proposal, also the energy stuff seemed good

yes on 40 - no need to redistrict.
 

clav

Member
I kind of don't see the point for prop 37.

Isn't there already the FDA to oversee the safety of our food?

Seems like the people who hate vaccines are backing this prop.
 
this is why California is a mess, you let the people vote on ballot box initiatives instead of letting the legistlators do their jobs lol
 
People are actually voting against 37? Guess lobbying and misinformation really works. :p

Gotta love people who advocate against their own interests as a consumer.
 

alphaNoid

Banned
This. Too many Wishful Dream Yes votes for things that are too costly. The state has to find funds for past bloated initiatives.

I saw a commercial yesterday where Jerry Brown was playing with a bunch of school kids and he literally said, 'Its time we stop cutting programs!" I almost spit out my drink. Um, no Jerry its not.. the state is broke as fuck and we're already taxed up the ass. Shut the fuck up and spend less. Stop hiding behind the children and balance the goddamn budget.

I"m sure there are plenty here who disagree with me and thats fine, to each his own.
 

Cyan

Banned
I saw a commercial yesterday where Jerry Brown was playing with a bunch of school kids and he literally said, 'Its time we stop cutting programs!" I almost spit out my drink. Um, no Jerry its not.. the state is broke as fuck and we're already taxed up the ass. Shut the fuck up and spend less. Stop hiding behind the children and balance the goddamn budget.

I"m sure there are plenty here who disagree with me and thats fine, to each his own.

I partly agree. I'd say it's time we stop cutting important stuff, like education, and start cutting some of the stuff that doesn't really help us, like prisons and railway boondoggles.
 

drspeedy

Member
Right on. Saw a few comments for 'No' on 37 and was getting worried about this thread :p

Heres the Bill Maher interview of Gary Hirshberg from Stonyfield, interesting stuff:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=t7l42cIJXvM#!

Transparecy and labeling cant cost THAT much more. I see all kinds of crazy labels on multiple types and brands of food products, everything from "20% more!!" to "Less Sugar!!" to "New Hardkore Flavor!". I'm sure there will still be a demand for GMO products with competitive pricing and such, but I'd at least like to pave a pathway for me and my kids and their kids to at least see what it is they are ingesting...

Gary is awesome, dude's the real deal- every.single.day. I've met and worked with him a few times, and he's always inspiring, even when it's something as simple as just washing hands after a meal... he'll use the chance to throw out insights around water usage, paper consumption, even just make a little joke coupled with a gentle reminder.

I mean it, he's redefined "first class" businessman for me. I hope we all come together to make this a win, 37 isn't quite there yet, at least nationally. Great start, tho.
 

mollipen

Member
I kind of don't see the point for prop 37.

Isn't there already the FDA to oversee the safety of our food?

Seems like the people who hate vaccines are backing this prop.

I support vaccines, but I also want to know if my food has been genetically modified or not. I want to know because it's a good thing to know, there's no logical reason not to tell us (if it's safe, then you shouldn't be afraid of people knowing), and if we decide there's no reason to know if our food is genetically modified or not, that makes me feel like we'll be on a slippery slope in terms of bigger issues. (But, really—food is already a big issue.)

The public deserves more information about their daily lives, not less. Corporations deserve less secrecy about what they're selling us, not more. People should always have more rights and information than corporations—I mean, that just seems like a no brainer to me.
 
Prop 30, Yes. I'm ok with the minor sales tax and all for increasing tax on the high income to better state education.
Prop 31, No. Local governments are terrible, don't give them more power.
Prop 32, No. If it applies to Unions it needs to apply to corps too.
Prop 33, No. Rate increase? No thanks.
Prop 34, Yes. Tenative, I'm not opposed to the death penalty but if they are gonna bullshit around for 20 years and rack up costs by not actually killing anyone anyway then we might as well just be rid of it.
Prop 35, No. The human trafficking part felt like a blind to cover the real goal of stricter security on sex offenders. Given that sexual offender is labeled on everyone possible these days (including the fact that it is never removed even when someone admits to a false rape charge) it is a definite NO.
Prop 36, Yes. The law doesn't work well as is. A step in the right direction.
Prop 37, Yes. More knowledge doesn't hurt and any company that already exports to the EU has the operations in place for this labeling. The claims that it will cost billions are lies.
Prop 38, No. Wealthy scam initiative to tax everyone regardless of income including those that can't afford to drop anymore pennies. Stick with 30 over this one, the 1/4% tax will be less than what you would pay under this one.
Prop 39, Yes. I'm for alternate energy research and incentivising jobs to stay in state.
Prop 40, Yes. There is absolutely no reason to vote no.

Bonus Round Local Measures (Santa Clara):
A, No. I'm ok with prop 30 but I don't like this one. Until they fix wasteful medical spending I don't want to give them more money. And programs to help kids stay in school? I'm sorry but having some damn self responsibility, if you want to quit school and have shitty job options that is not my problem.
B, Yes. Keeps status quo on funding water purification and job creation.
C, Yes. Let the people have their Marijuana.
 

Al-ibn Kermit

Junior Member
I support vaccines, but I also want to know if my food has been genetically modified or not. I want to know because it's a good thing to know, there's no logical reason not to tell us (if it's safe, then you shouldn't be afraid of people knowing), and if we decide there's no reason to know if our food is genetically modified or not, that makes me feel like we'll be on a slippery slope in terms of bigger issues. (But, really—food is already a big issue.)

The public deserves more information about their daily lives, not less. Corporations deserve less secrecy about what they're selling us, not more. People should always have more rights and information than corporations—I mean, that just seems like a no brainer to me.

It makes the consumer think there is a good reason to avoid it if it had to be labeled. I think it's important to spread adoption of these new types of good as they're just more efficient.

I think I pointed out earlier on this thread that it affects the nutrition as much as using illegal immigrants to pick/process the food. But the only reason to label if it uses GMOs or if the company was raided by the INS is if you have an ideological agenda to push on consumers.
 
37 - YES. Science says GMO food is okay. So I'll eat it. But if we find out otherwise tomorrow, I'd like to know what I'm eating.

Actually, science does not say that "GMO food is okay". Science simply *does not know* because funding for independent studies of GMO food safety is very limited and intellectual property rights limit publication of existing results. Add to this regulatory capture and lack of democratic debate about this issue, and imo it's absolutely not obvious that GMOs are ok. Additionally, there are newer results that seem to show that GMOs are not as safe as they seem to be - and these are just shorter term results, as there have been basically no long term studies at all.

Nevertheless, the main problem with GMOs is not food safety (which is still a large problem), but centralised control over the food production process. It is mostly used not to increase yields or decrease losses or create more resistant strains (all of these attempts have backfired btw), but to secure top-down, centralised control over the production process through increasing productivity (ie. decreasing the amount of human labour needed in agricultural production) and thus increasing possible farm size and decreasing the amount of people who can live off the land and concentrating profits at the technological level. Doesn't work that well thankfully, but still, that's the idea. Food labeling does not solve this problem but it may increase awareness so it's a good first step.

Frankly, I don't think that GMOs are a good idea overall. Not because of the problems with the technology or some inherent lack of safety, but simply because it's just way too dangerous and we are, in handling technology, just like a bunch of not very smart but very aggressive eight year olds. Simply not mature enough, by far.


It makes the consumer think there is a good reason to avoid it if it had to be labeled. I think it's important to spread adoption of these new types of good as they're just more efficient.

There are several good reasons to avoid buying GMOs actually, so making the consumer think that is awesome.

I think I pointed out earlier on this thread that it affects the nutrition as much as using illegal immigrants to pick/process the food. But the only reason to label if it uses GMOs or if the company was raided by the INS is if you have an ideological agenda to push on consumers.

No. That there is good science that shows that GMOs are safe is simply a myth, so even from this point of view labelling is pretty important. And still, why not let the market decide, based on, you know, full information? Isn't that how free markets are supposed to work anyway? If they're completely safe, this will eventually be reflected on the market also, so you'll eliminate a much, much bigger information asymmetry (which shouldn't have been there anyway) which may cause larger problems later. There may be temporary issues, but that's how things are supposed to work, so it's all good in the long run. If you hide information from the market, it'll be inefficient, at least that's what theory holds, no? Not that I believe in it, but the argument still stands.

Also. There are a few non-rational arguments about GMOs that are imo completely unacceptable, and no one should fall back on. One argument is that there is no science that proves that there's a health risk with GMOs (this is wrong for multiple reasons, first, because of the ones I mentioned in the first paragraph, but also because it's safety, not danger, that needs to be proven, based on the precautionary principle). Another is that anti-GMO people are anti-intellectual, anti-science, anti-technology reactionaries (I'm not going to detail why this argument is degrading for people who make it). Third, that GMOs are needed to "feed the world" (this is a much broader and much more controversial issue so I'm not going to go into it here).
 
Can you link us to a few studies?

There are a number of studies ( http://www.enveurope.com/content/23/1/10 or http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0278691512005637 (the latter is pretty controversial though)) but the most important problem is the *lack* of long term studies that show that GMO stuff is safe - which is obviously how it should be done. Also, as far as I know, there were no studies done by US regulators on GMO food safety, they were just declared substantially equivalent or whatever's the proper expression for this. But based on the precautionary principle, what should be shown is that they ARE in fact safe - we should not be discovering any possible problems after they're widely used. Not that anyone gives a shit about the precautionary principle :-/ The whole issue could easily be resolved if GMO supporters could point to a meta study of long-term studies that show that GMOs are safe. And that is basically the minimum you need to be able to say that "science shows that GMOs are safe". Common sense, really.

There is simply not enough information to declare GMOs safe (even though I privately think they mostly are). TBH I think that whatever food safety issues may arise are not going to be nearly as important as the social side of this problem that I described above (and if I'm wrong, we're fucked, considering how important that one is).
 

Cyan

Banned
Sorry, misread your post. I read it originally as saying "there is good science showing that 'GMO's are safe' is simply a myth." And only just now read it correctly.
 
Rubbish. Rubbish. Rubbish. GMOs feed the world. No controversy.

Errr, you do understand that GMOs and the green revolution are two very different things (although GMOs are often called the "second green revolution")? What feeds the world post-Green Revolution is oil, not GMOs :) (And in the long term, we just may have to go back to human labour instead of oil - which I'm not really looking forward to personally, having done a little agricultural work old-style. Too fucking hard for my lazy ass. But I don't believe that increasing dependency on oil and decreasing dependency on labour even more is a good direction, and that's what GMOs are mostly used for.) And despite the wealth it created, its long term effects can still turn out to be very destructive overall, considering its negative impact on land and water quality and its dependence on oil and natural gas, among a lot of other things. It is absolutely not obvious that it's sustainable and while it did lead to abundance of food in terms of production, it also had other effects. GMOs are much more controversial and do not even get close to the immediate and obvious positive effects of industrial agriculture (what the GR created). Afaik, no one wants to label the varieties that were bred for yield during the green revolution as GMOs.

Sorry, misread your post. I read it originally as saying "there is good science showing that 'GMO's are safe' is simply a myth." And only just now read it correctly.

Oh ok. It is pretty badly phrased hehe.
 

Clydefrog

Member
Ok, I think I'm ready for tomorrow.

30 - No... wait, maybe? I am sick of increasing taxes only to see the money be wasted. But I don't want to cut education. What do I do here?
31 - No.
32 - Yes... wait, no? Yeah, no. Unfair initiative.
33 - No.
34 - Yes.
35 - No.
36 - Yes.
37 - Yes.
38 - No.
39 - Yes.
40 - Yes.
 

mollipen

Member
It makes the consumer think there is a good reason to avoid it if it had to be labeled. I think it's important to spread adoption of these new types of good as they're just more efficient.

I think I pointed out earlier on this thread that it affects the nutrition as much as using illegal immigrants to pick/process the food. But the only reason to label if it uses GMOs or if the company was raided by the INS is if you have an ideological agenda to push on consumers.

That ideological agenda being "consumers have the right to know what they're eating". I seriously can't believe there's an argument against labeling. If companies are afraid people will get spooked by labels, then it is the job of those companies to prove to their consumers that there is no harm. The solution isn't keeping consumers ignorant to the facts.
 

Al-ibn Kermit

Junior Member
That ideological agenda being "consumers have the right to know what they're eating". I seriously can't believe there's an argument against labeling. If companies are afraid people will get spooked by labels, then it is the job of those companies to prove to their consumers that there is no harm. The solution isn't keeping consumers ignorant to the facts.

I just don't see any reason for the government to put a label on food unless it's too warn about potential health effects.

If companies want to convince consumers that GMO foods are bad for you, then it should their responsibility to present the scientific evidence.

I mean think about what you're saying, you want the government to put what would effectively be viewed as a "warning label" on this food and then expect consumers to get their information on how safe it is (according to the scientific community) by having that info be presented by the company that's trying to sell them the product.

Something like prop 37 just does not fit in a fair, transparent system of nutritional education.
 
So....yay or nay on the genetically engineered food one?

Yes. Its not banning, taxing or limiting anything, just providing consumers with facts.

Ok, I think I'm ready for tomorrow.

30 - No... wait, maybe? I am sick of increasing taxes only to see the money be wasted. But I don't want to cut education. What do I do here?

Taxes havent increased recently, in fact, taxes dropped in 2010. Why do you think so much has been cut?
 

Korey

Member
Yes. Its not banning, taxing or limiting anything, just providing consumers with facts.

Does it raise costs?

I don't think anyone's particularly AGAINST labeling. We're all just wondering if it's worth the extra money it's going to cost everyone for something that might not be that necessary.

Costs are passed on to the consumer. If my groceries go up just because of some labels we don't need, then I'd be against it.
 

Cyan

Banned
That ideological agenda being "consumers have the right to know what they're eating".

The ideological agenda in question ranges from "Monsanto is evil" (which is, to be fair, basically accurate) to "genetically modified food is unnatural and bad" (on which the jury is out).

Prop 37 is not about food labeling in general, it's about food labeling for one specific thing. To frame it as a battle for consumer knowledge in general is kind of disingenuous.
 

Al-ibn Kermit

Junior Member
Does it raise costs?

I don't think anyone's particularly AGAINST labeling. We're all just wondering if it's worth the extra money it's going to cost everyone for something that might not be that necessary.

Costs are passed on to the consumer. If my groceries go up just because of some labels we don't need, then I'd be against it.

It's not going to raise it a meaningful amount. The only question you need to ask is if you believe the consumer would benefit from knowing whether their food contains GMOs. Whether consuming such food has adverse health effects.
 

Zhengi

Member
Ok, I think I'm ready for tomorrow.

30 - No... wait, maybe? I am sick of increasing taxes only to see the money be wasted. But I don't want to cut education. What do I do here?
31 - No.
32 - Yes... wait, no? Yeah, no. Unfair initiative.
33 - No.
34 - Yes.
35 - No.
36 - Yes.
37 - Yes.
38 - No.
39 - Yes.
40 - Yes.

I say vote no on 30 cause they won't cut education. K-12 education actually got an increase of $3 billion in funds this year because they had an increase of $6 billion in extra tax revenue this year. They did cut higher education by $800 million, but that was to force people to vote for 30. If the prop doesn't pass, I would bet that they will restore some of the cuts they have made to higher education and spend less money in other areas.
 

Extollere

Sucks at poetry
Heres my ballot:

30 - Yes for taxes
31 - Im about to vote no I think
32 - No on union busting
33 - No on insurance rate hikes for those who choose not to drive for a bit
34 - Yes on eliminating death penalty
35 - No on making someone who urinates in public have to disclose their internet browsing forever
36 - Yes on making three strikes for serious crimes only
37 - Yes on making natural foods natural
38 - Im thinking yes, only because it's certain to lose
39 - Yes on taxing those evil foreign companies
40 - Yes

Local:
Yes on libraries,

Same as me. No on local measure to enforce condoms on actors, yes on speeding up the rail/metro lines.

What's the best place to keep track of which measures were passed or rejected?
 

Eggo

GameFan Alumnus
I'm voting along Democratic party lines except for 35...

30 Yes - Don't want to cut education
31 No - Hard to understand and sounds like a bad idea
32 No - Hurts unions but helps SuperPAC's
33 No - Sounds good in theory, but penalizes people with lapses and allows insurance companies to raise rates around the regulatory commissioner
34 Yes - Saves money
35 No - Seems unnecessary
36 Yes - Improves the law
37 Yes - At first, I thought no, but then I saw all the food corporations are spending big $ to oppose this. What are they hiding?
38 No - Too long, and I don't like that 1/3 of the revenue generated goes to ambiguous state debt instead of education.
39 Yes - Close a tax loophole and improve alternative energy
40 Yes - The commission did a fine job with the redistricting the first time
 

Cyan

Banned
37 Yes - At first, I thought no, but then I saw all the food corporations are spending big $ to oppose this. What are they hiding?

I certainly wouldn't exclude the possibility that they're hiding something, but even if they weren't, I'd expect them to oppose it. As mentioned above, the mere act of labeling genetically modified food is likely to cause people to fear it and shy away from it, even if there's no cause. The food corps oppose it because they'd have to start moving away from genetically modified anything or lose business.
 
Does it raise costs?

I don't think anyone's particularly AGAINST labeling. We're all just wondering if it's worth the extra money it's going to cost everyone for something that might not be that necessary.

Costs are passed on to the consumer. If my groceries go up just because of some labels we don't need, then I'd be against it.

Food already requires nutritional labeling and stuff, so what would the added cost be? Its not like theyre adding anything, just relocating some of the logo real-estate to a small GMO thing.
 

drspeedy

Member
Food already requires nutritional labeling and stuff, so what would the added cost be? Its not like theyre adding anything, just relocating some of the logo real-estate to a small GMO thing.


I'll try to stay out of discussing 37 on it's merits or any lack thereof, but I will wade into the pool here just a bit...


There are costs around creating new packaging, it's something most every company already does on a regular basis, but in this case anybody that wants to do business in CA will have to develop a new package that complies with the regs (spend $ to get new artwork), get new packaging produced (spend $ for manufacturing and setup) and also write off any old packaging laying around that they couldn't use up before they legally have to change (spend $ to throw away stuff).

So If you sell a product like granola bars that have a printed box and printed pouches, that means more costs for you. A bottle of soy sauce is only one label, but a 24 count box of frozen burritos at 7-11 means the seller has to change both the carton and the wrappers- and for smaller companies that sell maybe a handful of units per week, the thought of having to change packaging on everything is sometimes daunting. They might even be sitting on a boatload of packaging because they bought it in larger quantities to save some money. "Mom and Pop's Handmade Kale Chips" probably didn't budget for validating their ingredient claims and updating all of their packs.

Not to mention that if you wanted to sell your food somewhere other than Cali, you'd potentially need a different label- so you now have to manage multiple packaging copies and distribution depending on where your product is sold.


[EDIT]
I should add one more thing, concerning the likely inflation of some ingredients: If the prop passes, people could move to replace GMO ingredients with organic and non-GMO verified versions rather than change their labels. In that case, anyone selling non-GMO ingredients will have a bidding war for all the available supply. Corn is a prime example; in the US there's a very limited supply of corn that's non-GMO compared to the total crop. Should that become a high demand item due to 37, the prices will soar as companies rush to buy up all that's sitting out there. Or they're forced to import it from Europe, which adds not only cost but serious food miles and carbon emissions (that part is more for green-GAF, a little off topic). That cost almost certainly gets pushed directly to the consumer, companies won't just absorb it.

Not that this is a good reason to vote for or against 37, only framing some of the costs here.
 

Robot1X

Neo Member
Kinda of topic, I registered to vote at the DMV months ago, but when I check this site to see if I was registered, it couldn't find me on the list. I hope I'll still be able to..
 

Al-ibn Kermit

Junior Member
I don't think people understand that nearly all soy and corn is GMO, and that that's in everything.

Honesty, I think if it passes it'll just make people realize how useless the fear of genetic modification is.
Kinda of topic, I registered to vote at the DMV months ago, but when I check this site to see if I was registered, it couldn't find me on the list. I hope I'll still be able to..

Just go to google.com and put in your location and it'll give you your polling location, then just show up and they'll either see you on the rolls or will give you a provisional ballot.
 
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