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Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 |OT|

RickA238 said:
All I know is that with FMJ on the FAMAS, paired with Stopping Power, I get a ton of single burst kills on each map I play. When beginning my most recent prestige, I rarely got single burst kills with the FAMAS and stopping power. I have tried playing without FMJ on the FAMAS more recently, experiencing the same effect.

The bottom line is that without FMJ, I get ~5 kills less each map, without even counting all the bullet penetration kills I get (I seem to get the most BP kills at least every other match). IMO it turns the FAMAS from a middling weapon to the best weapon in the game.

It comes down to your individual testimonial, if FMJ works for you, you should use it. Even without the added damage, I would still use FMJ because of all the BP kills I rack up. Furthermore, I don't trust the files that some hacker supposed hacked out the the game code. The files could just as easily have been fabricated. I trust my own experience of 4+ days played in MP.

With stopping power, a single burst from the FAMAS should kill at any range if all bullets hit. Without stopping power, a single burst from the FAMAS should kill at medium range if all bullets hit:

3 bullets * 40 damage at mid range = 120 damage
3 bullets * 30 damage at long range * 1.4 from stopping power = 126 damage

In other words, a single burst from the FAMAS with SP doesn't need any help to kill.
 

Neverfade

Member
beast786 said:
FMJ for sure makes a big difference on 1887.

This is because they didn't fix the range when you akimbo and fmj them. Known "bug". They're deadlier from further away, but its not because of a damage increase.
 

Meier

Member
Yeef said:
As long as you're using a silencer killing people with one shot with any sniper is easy. Barring that, with everything but the intervention you can double tap to get two shots off before recoil kicks in so that you kill the guy anyway even with a silencer.
I guess the thought of double tapping with a sniper feels too awkward to me... I never do it instinctively and when it happens I hate the feeling of vulnerability when the gun swings so wildly from the recoil since I now have no vision at all.

I'm not sure if it's just my lag or if I'm just not a good enough aim, but I don't agree that it's easy to one shot people without stopping power. I definitely had much greater success killing folks with it on than I have had lately. Going forward, I probably will only use Cold Blooded when I snipe on Derail.
 

winnarps

Member
RickA238 said:
All I know is that with FMJ on the FAMAS, paired with Stopping Power, I get a ton of single burst kills on each map I play. When beginning my most recent prestige, I rarely got single burst kills with the FAMAS and stopping power. I have tried playing without FMJ on the FAMAS more recently, experiencing the same effect.

A single burst of the FAMAS or M16 at close-medium range will kill a player (if all bullets hit), WITHOUT Stopping Power or FMJ equipped. You can test this in a quick private match.

Latency can affect bullets landing successfully when playing ranked matches online, which is why it sometimes feels like you need to shoot more than 1 burst into an enemy.

Edit: Beaten by the other sane person here, zorro. :p
 
Just remembered this:

I'm at Gamestop last night waiting in line (why are these people as slow as Walgreen's???) and I'm enduring waiting behind these two black-trenchcoated freaks who are all jazzed about Darksiders (?) and there's this girl up at the register saying "all I'm trying to do is sell this game back." I look. It. Is.

Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2. WHAT???!!! Are you INSANE???? Look, I'll buy you that next drink, or a White Castle dinner or whatever, but there is no need to be this reckless, lady. I wonder what she got for it... like $25 if she was lucky...

Those are the times you want to grab someone and take them outside and say, "you really need $25? Here's $30, and this won't actually get resold, but will go to a nice home." :D
 
RickA238 said:
All I know is that with FMJ on the FAMAS, paired with Stopping Power, I get a ton of single burst kills on each map I play. When beginning my most recent prestige, I rarely got single burst kills with the FAMAS and stopping power. I have tried playing without FMJ on the FAMAS more recently, experiencing the same effect.

The bottom line is that without FMJ, I get ~5 kills less each map, without even counting all the bullet penetration kills I get (I seem to get the most BP kills at least every other match). IMO it turns the FAMAS from a middling weapon to the best weapon in the game.

It comes down to your individual testimonial, if FMJ works for you, you should use it. Even without the added damage, I would still use FMJ because of all the BP kills I rack up. Furthermore, I don't trust the files that some hacker supposed hacked out the the game code. The files could just as easily have been fabricated. I trust my own experience of 4+ days played in MP.

Lol.
 
Do EMP's reset your killstreaks or do Pave Lows just not count towards killstreak rewards? Was playing Demo on Estate just now, started 0-2. Got to 7-2, called in harrier. Harrier got me to 13-2, called in Pave Low. Pave Low got me all the way to 21-2.

Round ends, we switch up and go on offense. I go the back way to A, get 2 more kills. I'm now at 24-2. I eventually get to 28-2 yet Nuke never pops up. I'm reading The Call of Duty Wiki right now and it says nothing about resetting the streak, only that you can't access your rewards during the 60 seconds the EMP lasts.

Pissed me way off, I worked my ass off for those 25 kills.
 

winnarps

Member
Bumblebeetuna said:
Do EMP's reset your killstreaks or do Pave Lows just not count towards killstreak rewards? Was playing Demo on Estate just now, started 0-2. Got to 7-2, called in harrier. Harrier got me to 13-2, called in Pave Low. Pave Low got me all the way to 21-2.

Round ends, we switch up and go on offense. I go the back way to A, get 2 more kills. I'm now at 24-2. I eventually get to 28-2 yet Nuke never pops up. I'm reading The Call of Duty Wiki right now and it says nothing about resetting the streak, only that you can't access your rewards during the 60 seconds the EMP lasts.

Pissed me way off, I worked my ass off for those 25 kills.

Kills earned from Pave Lows called in via killstreaks do not add to your current killstreak.

However, if you call in a Pave Low via Care Package or EAD, those count.

It's a known glitch.
 
Bullet damage gets lowered after going through surfaces. FMJ makes it so they lose less.

Exp. Hypothetical gun shoots 100 damage bullet. Bullet hits surface which is designated to suck 50% of the power out of bullets going through it. Bullet hits target for 50 damage.

Hypothetical gun WITH FMJ shoots for 100 damage. Bullet hits surface which is designated to suck 50% of the power out of bullets going through it. FMJ reduces that penalty by half. Bullet hits target for 75 damage.

Note all above numbers are made up to simplify the concept I'm trying to explain. As well I ignored trajectory angles cause it's unecessary to the larger point.
 
Bumblebeetuna said:
Do EMP's reset your killstreaks or do Pave Lows just not count towards killstreak rewards? Was playing Demo on Estate just now, started 0-2. Got to 7-2, called in harrier. Harrier got me to 13-2, called in Pave Low. Pave Low got me all the way to 21-2.

Round ends, we switch up and go on offense. I go the back way to A, get 2 more kills. I'm now at 24-2. I eventually get to 28-2 yet Nuke never pops up. I'm reading The Call of Duty Wiki right now and it says nothing about resetting the streak, only that you can't access your rewards during the 60 seconds the EMP lasts.

Pissed me way off, I worked my ass off for those 25 kills.

Pave Low kills do not count towards killstreaks for some asinine reason (likely a bug).

You say your Pave Low got you from 13 to 21, which means it got 9 kills. This means that you only had a streak of 19. Sorry man.
 
winnarps said:
Kills earned from Pave Lows called in via killstreaks do not add to your current killstreak.

However, if you call in a Pave Low via Care Package or EAD, those count.

It's a known glitch.

Oh Infinity Ward, never change :lol

Guess Pave Low is going off the set up :\
 

Yeef

Member
FMJ doesn't affect normal damage. I trust Den Kirson and his crew because he's the same guy that figured out all the stuff for COD4 and it was all accurate. If you browse the forums [/url=http://denkirson.proboards.com/index.cgi]here[/url] you can see how they got their info with the different tests and logs they've used and make up your own mind. With the way this game handles lag it doesn't really make much sense to trust your experience in a non-controlled environment.

Meier said:
I guess the thought of double tapping with a sniper feels too awkward to me... I never do it instinctively and when it happens I hate the feeling of vulnerability when the gun swings so wildly from the recoil since I now have no vision at all.

I'm not sure if it's just my lag or if I'm just not a good enough aim, but I don't agree that it's easy to one shot people without stopping power. I definitely had much greater success killing folks with it on than I have had lately. Going forward, I probably will only use Cold Blooded when I snipe on Derail.

The trick is to aim for the chest of the head since they give a 1.5 multiplier on top of the 70 damage that the snipers do it's a one-hit kill if you score a hit. I'm not really sure if you have to lead your shots or not though. Usually I don't and still hit, but sometimes I've found I have to. I don't know if it's just the aim-assist messing with my shot or not though.
 
DeuceMojo said:
Just remembered this:

I'm at Gamestop last night waiting in line (why are these people as slow as Walgreen's???) and I'm enduring waiting behind these two black-trenchcoated freaks who are all jazzed about Darksiders (?) and there's this girl up at the register saying "all I'm trying to do is sell this game back." I look. It. Is.

Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2. WHAT???!!! Are you INSANE???? Look, I'll buy you that next drink, or a White Castle dinner or whatever, but there is no need to be this reckless, lady. I wonder what she got for it... like $25 if she was lucky...

Those are the times you want to grab someone and take them outside and say, "you really need $25? Here's $30, and this won't actually get resold, but will go to a nice home." :D

The trade in value on MW2 in Canada is 30-40 bucks depending where you go, alot of people are already tired of this game, don't go bonkers because they want to trade it in at its near peak value :p



For sniping it depends how fast they are moving to determine if you should lead the shot or not
 
Yeef said:
I'm not really sure if you have to lead your shots or not though. Usually I don't and still hit, but sometimes I've found I have to. I don't know if it's just the aim-assist messing with my shot or not though.
I've wondered about sniping. I've been thinking of spending my 2nd prestige being a sniper.

As a sniper I'm often prone, and often lining up some surefire one-hit kills, but I haven't done many moving targets (other than someone coming directly for you or running directly away which is very easy.) When you're aiming at a target that's moving at, say, a 90 degree angle to your line of sight, will you kind of lock on to him once you get the scope on him? Is sniping less difficult than I think?
 

Insaniac

Member
they should make it so when ADS of a shotgun it increases its range a little bit, that combined with nerfing the akimbo shotgun range would help balance it out I think because they wouldn't be able to take advantage of the ADS range increase.
 
Yeef said:
I'm not really sure if you have to lead your shots or not though. Usually I don't and still hit, but sometimes I've found I have to. I don't know if it's just the aim-assist messing with my shot or not though.
I'm in the same boat. Sometimes I have to lead, sometimes not. I've gotten to where, let's say I'm lining up a shot on a guy's head who's running 90 degrees across from me, if I aim at the first 1/3 of the head, it will always hit unless some crazy lag is happening.
 

Fugu

Member
The weapon stats were taken straight from the PC files. Not sure why they're disputed, considering the only thing on the charts that isn't definitively a fact are the range stats.
 

Insaniac

Member
Fugu said:
The weapon stats were taken straight from the PC files. Not sure why they're disputed, considering the only thing on the charts that isn't definitively a fact are the range stats.

anyone got that pic or a webpage with the definitive weapon stats?
 

kilongs

Member
winnarps said:
Kills earned from Pave Lows called in via killstreaks do not add to your current killstreak.

However, if you call in a Pave Low via Care Package or EAD, those count.

It's a known glitch.
WTF!? I didn't know that!
Are there any other bugs like this listed somewhere?

Bumblebeetuna said:
Guess Pave Low is going off the set up :\
Same :(
 

aku:jiki

Member
Insaniac said:
they should make it so when ADS of a shotgun it increases its range a little bit, that combined with nerfing the akimbo shotgun range would help balance it out I think because they wouldn't be able to take advantage of the ADS range increase.
I feel like it already does do that...or maybe it's just way easier to aim a longer shot in ADS.

Do have to say no thanks to anything that increases the range of the shotguns though! They all need to go down, not up. :lol

Are there any other bugs like this listed somewhere?
And is there a list of like optimal attachments? I mean, some people say that an AK gets worse accuracy with a sight on it and some other gun gets worse if you put whatever else on it and so forth.
 
Fugu said:
The weapon stats were taken straight from the PC files. Not sure why they're disputed, considering the only thing on the charts that isn't definitively a fact are the range stats.
Oh, well if it was posted on Teh Internets then it must be true. :lol

BTW, I suspect the difference between 1,000 and 1,500 kills with no FMJ and with FMJ is due partly to people not getting away nearly as often by ducking behind something solid.

On the other hand, I'll dispute some chart that was "pulled from the PC files" if only because that's got little to do with my console version and the game tells me right there while I'm selecting attachments that FMJ does more damage.

If Robert Bowling or if IW tells me "FMJ is purely for bullet penetration and provides no increased damage to targets in the open" I'll believe it. Until then, I don't care 'cause I only use it for one challenge per weapon anyway.

(I guess that means I believe the charts)
 

aku:jiki

Member
DeuceMojo said:
BTW, I suspect the difference between 1,000 and 1,500 kills with no FMJ and with FMJ is due partly to people not getting away nearly as often by ducking behind something solid.
Unless it's one of the billions of objects that IW forgot to code penetration into. Damn the indestructible tables on that bombed out upper floor on Invasion. :mad:
 
aku:jiki said:
I mean, some people say that an AK gets worse accuracy with a sight on it and some other gun gets worse if you put whatever else on it and so forth.
This is part of the myth, and I think it's what makes a game fun. I've heard ever since COD4 that "you gotta put a silencer on that AK or it kicks too much." Really? That's pure urban myth, and it's hilarious. I get caught up in it sometimes, 'cause I'm looking for an edge like everyone else.
 
aku:jiki said:
Unless it's one of the billions of objects that IW forgot to code penetration into. Damn the indestructible tables on that bombed out upper floor on Invasion. :mad:
Hah. I've set up shop there a few times. Put on a clinic. My teacher's aides are the claymores (plural) I set up on the stairs or wherever. My pupils are the guys in the video shop, coming through the alley and down the street who eat my grenades and rifle fire over and over again. :D
However, get a man in the 2nd floor of the building immediately across the street, and he'll usually manage to blow my head off.
 
So I finally got around to trying Spec Ops with my mate who can do it on Veteran and in three hours I got myself 56* :D

They're awesome. We only have 4 or 5 of the really toughs ones left now that we'll do another time before I got my full 69.
 
so over the holiday break anyone else noticed that most of the time shit that happened on the killcam isnt what happened on your screen?:lol
 

RubxQub

φίλω ἐξεχέγλουτον καί ψευδολόγον οὖκ εἰπόν
DeuceMojo said:
Damn. Bob Bowling is ON that shit.

Does that settle it though? 'Cause, like, we knew that, right?
That doesn't answer SHIT!

I'm testing this nonsense...
 

Fugu

Member
DeuceMojo said:
Oh, well if it was posted on Teh Internets then it must be true. :lol
There are, in fact, two somewhat time-consuming but otherwise conclusive ways you can confirm the data as reported on, say, this website: http://denkirson.xanga.com/715966769/modern-warfare-2/

The first way is to shoot someone with a gun, alt-tab out of the game, navigate to your %modern warfare 2%\Main\games_mp.log file, and look for yourself.

Since I suspect most of you don't have the PC version, what this file does is keep track of every shot, grenade, turret (etc.) and chat item that you see in a game (if you don't see the shot, it's not recorded in the logfile, but if you do -- even if it's not yours -- it is). It updates perpetually and as you're playing. It's in plain text format; anyone who navigates to that folder will see that file.

An example line looks like this:
0:51 D;011000010116dfdd;10;allies;Fugu;0110000102dc6643;5;axis;ToxP| Welshy;famas_acog_mp;56;MOD_RIFLE_BULLET;torso_upper

Gives you a timestamp, your name, the gun you were using, how much damage you did, what type of bullet you were using who you hit, and where you hit them. In this case, someone hit me (while using stopping power) in the upper torso for 56 damage. That'd be 40 x 1.4, much like these charts say. Considering this log file is absolutely huge, it wouldn't be difficult to easily get every gun's damage from this.
It also gives you a lot of other neat pieces of information, like how the game treats pistol bullets and P90 shots the same in regards to bullet penetration.

The other way (the method with which I am less familiar) involves using an extraction tool to get at the plaintext document that lists weapon damage. If it's anything like CoD4, it's in the .iw# files somewhere.
 
divisionbyzorro said:
Pave Low kills do not count towards killstreaks for some asinine reason (likely a bug).

You say your Pave Low got you from 13 to 21, which means it got 9 kills. This means that you only had a streak of 19. Sorry man.


This video says otherwise.

Skip to about the 3:15 mark where he calls in the pave low. You can see that it nets him two kills which enable him to use his chopper gunner. It seems that the pave low randomly decides whether or not to count kills towards your kill-streak as I've seen both to be the case.
 

RubxQub

φίλω ἐξεχέγλουτον καί ψευδολόγον οὖκ εἰπόν
Just tested this in a game under the following conditions.

Health Regeneration: Off
Health: Normal

Both players using Tactical Inserts to guarantee distance was the same.
P1 with two classes, one with a G18 w/o FMJ, one with G18 w/FMJ
P1 shoots at the exact same spot on P2
P2 kills P1 to respawn (couldn't use OMA, because I don't have FMJ unlocked on any gun but the SCAR on this prestige, so secondary it was).

Gun: G18 without FMJ
Situation: Open Field
Result: 4 shots center mass = kill

Gun: G18 with FMJ
Situation: Open Field
Result: 4 shots center mass = kill

-------------

Gun: G18 without FMJ
Situation: Behind Concrete Block
Result: Shots could not penetrate...no damage or kill possible.

Gun: G18 with FMJ
Situation: Behind Concrete Block
Result: Shots could penetrate...22 shots to kill.

-------------

Gun: G18 without FMJ
Situation: Behind thin metal barrier
Result: 5 shots center mass = kill

Gun: G18 with FMJ
Situation: Behind thin metal barrier
Result: 4 shots center mass = kill

-------------

Conclusion: FMJ allows bullets to penetrate more deeply than they previously would. When not penetrating surfaces, they deal no additional damage. When penetrating surfaces, bullets with FMJ do more damage than bullets without FMJ.

...it works exactly as we expected. :lol

100% confirmed
 
johnFkennedy said:
This video says otherwise.

Skip to about the 3:15 mark where he calls in the pave low. You can see that it nets him two kills which enable him to use his chopper gunner. It seems that the pave low randomly decides whether or not to count kills towards your kill-streak as I've seen both to be the case.

O_O

Maybe the game mode has something to do with it?
 

Sielys

Member
RubxQub said:
Conclusion: FMJ allows bullets to penetrate more deeply than they previously would. When not penetrating surfaces, they deal no additional damage. When penetrating surfaces, bullets with FMJ do more damage than bullets without FMJ.

...it works exactly as we expected. :lol

100% confirmed

Wow, I honestly did not expect that. Not only normal damage through walls, increased...amazing :lol
 

RubxQub

φίλω ἐξεχέγλουτον καί ψευδολόγον οὖκ εἰπόν
Sielys said:
Wow, I honestly did not expect that. Not only normal damage through walls, increased...amazing :lol
Careful.

It took 4 shots with no barrier with or without FMJ to kill a guy.

With a thin barrier it took 5 shots to kill a guy without FMJ, but only 4 with FMJ. Shooting through cover reduces bullet damage, but with FMJ on it increases the amount of damage you do through cover. In this example of a very thin metal barrier, with FMJ bullets did their regular damage through the barrier as if there was no barrier, while the regular bullets were reduced (seemingly by 20% in this example).
 

Sielys

Member
RubxQub said:
Careful.

It took 4 shots with no barrier with or without FMJ to kill a guy.

With a thin barrier it took 5 shots to kill a guy without FMJ, but only 4 with FMJ. Shooting through cover reduces bullet damage, but with FMJ on it increases the amount of damage you do through cover. In this example of a very thin metal barrier, with FMJ bullets did their regular damage through the barrier as if there was no barrier, while the regular bullets were reduced (seemingly by 20% in this example).

I was trying to be facetious, but I can never seem to portray that well in writing. D:
 
After a lot of frustrating games over the past couple days, I finally got my second Nuke. It's always so easy when it all goes your way, but so frustrating when it doesn't.
 

Eric WK

Member
Just had my best match ever. Been playing like shit lately so this was completely out of the blue.

205z1hd.jpg
 

RubxQub

φίλω ἐξεχέγλουτον καί ψευδολόγον οὖκ εἰπόν
Eric WK said:
Just had my best match ever. Been playing like shit lately so this was completely out of the blue.

205z1hd.jpg
I'm willing to bet it was Chopper Gunner + Wasteland action in a domination game?
 

RubxQub

φίλω ἐξεχέγλουτον καί ψευδολόγον οὖκ εἰπόν
Eric WK said:
Estate, actually.
Damnit! :lol

Still, super awesome game you had. Gratz, dude.
 

LeMaximilian

Alligator F*ck House
Eric WK said:
Just had my best match ever. Been playing like shit lately so this was completely out of the blue.

205z1hd.jpg

Damn, what map was that?

Closest I ever came was something like 90-6 on Favela domination ground-war. Haven't been able to break 100 on any map yet. Besides the infinite private matches...
 
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