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[JustHadToJoin]

just got killed 14 times by the same person! personally handed this guy a freakin emp

 

[moai]

it's so anoying getting random messages about boosting or "prestiging" gltich games. the ones asking for money (deposit 30 usd to get all challenges and prestige 10) are the worst. is there any way to stop this?

 

[Jrmint]

SMG Stuff

Really nice write up man, very helpful.

I posted this in the multiplayer forum, but I'll post here as well since I'm not sure as many people look there.

I am looking for a reliable Spec Ops partner looking to get all of the missions done. Send me a friend request with a short message on 360 if you'd like to play, thanks.
Gamertag: Marksman82

 

[jiien]

I'm not sure you're using SMGs correctly.

Not picking a fight, just not sure how what I said seems to imply that. I realize that my statement that SMGs are useless beyond close range is a given; they are designed to be. However, many players walk into this game mastering only a few guns, and perhaps one play style, and try to pick guns that work in any number of situations. I was trying to give an overall impression of SMGs as a whole; why should someone pick an SMG over an AR? Versatility is always a huge plus when picking a gun to stick by.

Anyway, it seems my source of information was off, assuming that yours is correct (which it probably is D. I could have sworn that SP made little difference to UMP damage...

Fake edit: From what I read, UMP was 35 without SP, and therefore 49 with. That means that SP or not, it's always a 3 hit kill. SP only really makes a difference within the range of the UMP, and I can imagine that with a silencer on the UMP (which most people use, since it seems to artificially affect the recoil), that range doesn't often come into play.

Don't fire so fast. That's the general rule behind using SMGs I suppose but it's most relevant to the MP5K because its recoil is off the wall.

Oh, I agree. However, I feel that with the MP5K, as you said, the recoil is far worse than any of the other SMGs (which is also evident in the pictures you posted), and this will therefore affect how easy it is to use for people in general. I don't think the MP5K does enough damage to make the recoil worth it (at range, it's only 20 w/o SP). Better to slap Steady Aim on there, and hip fire.

Anyway, very informative. My post was based mostly on experience. Better to have pictures.

 

[eek5]

Not picking a fight, just not sure how what I said seems to imply that. I realize that my statement that SMGs are useless beyond close range is a given; they are designed to be. However, many players walk into this game mastering only a few guns, and perhaps one play style, and try to pick guns that work in any number of situations. I was trying to give an overall impression of SMGs as a whole; why should someone pick an SMG over an AR? Versatility is always a huge plus when picking a gun to stick by.

Anyway, it seems my source of information was off, assuming that yours is correct (which it probably is D. I could have sworn that SP made little difference to UMP damage...

Fake edit: From what I read, UMP was 35 without SP, and therefore 49 with. That means that SP or not, it's always a 3 hit kill. SP only really makes a difference within the range of the UMP, and I can imagine that with a silencer on the UMP (which most people use, since it seems to artificially affect the recoil), that range doesn't often come into play.

Other than snipers or LMGs, all guns have damage/range curve. The UMP is 40-35 damage so with stopping power it is 2 hit close range 3 hit far range. Without stopping power it is 3 hit all range or if you're playing kid mode it's one hit kill all the time.

The MP5K's greatest asset is its 40 damage up close and high rate of fire. I find it midly usable in mid range and unusable in far range unless the person is running away from me and I have a clear shot. I am good with SMGs but better with AR so I exploit SMG advantages (cqb, movement speed) to get a kill then pick up an AR or LMG off the ground.

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

Man, this whole speed knifing thing is a lot harder when your connection is shittier than everyone else's. :lol Don't think I'll be trying that for much longer.

 

[Khalifa Jayy]

And I saw the weirdest shit today. I saw a Harrier teamkill, it was red on my map but it was killing members of the opposite team.

Are you sure? You do realize that sometimes your team is white and other times you're orange/brown on the kill list, right?

 

[Fugu]

Not picking a fight, just not sure how what I said seems to imply that. I realize that my statement that SMGs are useless beyond close range is a given; they are designed to be. However, many players walk into this game mastering only a few guns, and perhaps one play style, and try to pick guns that work in any number of situations. I was trying to give an overall impression of SMGs as a whole; why should someone pick an SMG over an AR? Versatility is always a huge plus when picking a gun to stick by.

Anyway, it seems my source of information was off, assuming that yours is correct (which it probably is D. I could have sworn that SP made little difference to UMP damage...

Fake edit: From what I read, UMP was 35 without SP, and therefore 49 with. That means that SP or not, it's always a 3 hit kill. SP only really makes a difference within the range of the UMP, and I can imagine that with a silencer on the UMP (which most people use, since it seems to artificially affect the recoil), that range doesn't often come into play.



Oh, I agree. However, I feel that with the MP5K, as you said, the recoil is far worse than any of the other SMGs (which is also evident in the pictures you posted), and this will therefore affect how easy it is to use for people in general. I don't think the MP5K does enough damage to make the recoil worth it (at range, it's only 20 w/o SP). Better to slap Steady Aim on there, and hip fire.

Anyway, very informative. My post was based mostly on experience. Better to have pictures.

I apologize for the remark that I opened that post with, I was cranky and running off of very little sleep. =P My point was that SMGs have a lot of weird nuances in MW2 that make them good.

Damage charts: http://denkirson.xanga.com/715966769/modern-warfare-2/ (As you can see, the UMP does 35-40).
Source of the wall shooting picture, with shots for every gun: http://denkirson.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=417

A lot of people wonder why you should (or, for that matter, would) pick an SMG over an AR; that's the reason that the UMP is a difficult choice to recommend. The UMP covers a lot of the same ground as ARs; why anyone would ever used an unsilenced UMP is beyond me. It's because of this that it's not fair to categorize the UMP as the best SMG because the UMP is essentially a handicapped AR (note that it has higher recoil than every AR except the F2000) that has an overwhelming advantage in close combat with stopping power. The UMP is certainly a great gun, mostly because close combat is frequent in MW2 and that gives it an edge over most ARs; it's also good because unlike the ARs, it is very effective with a sliencer. But the best SMG? Doubtful; that title belongs to either the P90 or the MU because they cover a completely different ground than ARs.

SMGs in MW2 are all about versatility; in fact, they are more versatile than Assault Rifles due to their short-range domination. In the short game, they are the undisputed kings of primary weapons: Even the slowest SMG has a fire rate faster than every assault rifle and many of them do the same damage as any assault rifle. In the long game, they can be just as effective as an assault rifle with a lot of practice. The firing rate comes in handy as it means you're hitting your opponent more often than an AR would making it more difficult for your opponent to correct themselves and get their aim back (this is especially helpful if your opponent is using a burst-fire gun that will kill you in one burst). The silencer also means you're (relatively) free to conduct a fire fight at any range; on maps like Wasteland where you're pretty much perpetually at risk of crossfire, this is a huge advantage over Assault Rifles. At the midrange assault rifles generally do have the upper hand due to the fact that an unsilenced assault rifle is likely still dealing its full damage (or close to it) at midrange. But the fact that you move faster and that your aim should be unimpeded at midrange (by this I mean that your target shouldn't be too difficult for you to hit) can almost completely nullify that benefit.

In my opinion, the root of the SMG hate in MW2 comes about from people trying to use SMGs as assault rifles; they're not. When people run around with SMGs unsilenced trying to compete with the M14 in midrange battles, it's only natural that they're going to lose (considering the M14 is more accurate and outdamaging them on every bullet; while a more skilled player will most certainly be able to overcome that disadvantage, it doesn't make sense considering the other options). I also think that they're much more nuanced than ARs on account of the necessity of recoil management to be useful beyond extremely close up.

I should also mention that the MP5K is a bit of a black sheep; the difficulty involved in using it at anything other than short range makes it difficult to recommend considering even if you do it correctly, you're still dealing as much damage as the Vector with a much slower rate of fire as you're slowing yourself down a lot to correct your aim. However, the MP5K is the undisputed champion of close range combat due to the fact that it deals 56 damage with stopping power and fires faster than the UMP.

If I were to rank the SMGs, it would look like this...
1/2. Mini-Uzi/P90 (The Mini-Uzi is probably better than the P90 on consoles because I would imagine aim assist would interfere in short-range fights and make the small firing rate difference relevant)
3. Vector
4. UMP
5. MP5k

Are you sure? You do realize that sometimes your team is white and other times you're orange/brown on the kill list, right?

This is actually sort of a common bug. Harriers and chopper gunners (those are the only two I've seen, although I imagine it'd also apply to other air support as well) will frequently display as red if the host changes or the player who owned them leaves. They will continue to fire on the team they were originally firing at except their kills will be credited to no one (it will show up as a team kill, basically).

 

[aku:jiki]

One thing I discovered today and I dunno if it's well known but I figured I'd spread it around. If you lay prone on the ground with the shield on your back, you will be completely protected from Harriers and auto helicopters unless they get an extreme angle on you. I went from about 1000 damage absorbed to 20000 damage absorbed in two games. Seems to be very effective for locking them down til your team hits them with anti-air. In addition, you get 50 points every few seconds sort of ticking for about 200 to 250 points then it drops to about 4 or 5 points. Not too bad a gain for just sitting there.

You don't even have to lie down! Just sitting down under the Harrier and aiming your shield at it works great. It really is a hilarious alternative to packing a Stinger! Plus, it has the added bonus of really pissing the owner of the Harrier off. He'll hear it fire constantly but he won't get any kills! :lol

 

[sneakypete]

Oh man that's a great idea. I think I'm going to hop on and try it, anyone want to get on Live? Sadly I have no mic at the moment, but if anyone's down, add me:
CriscoGiant

 

[Mileena]

So I have recently become a dropshot douchebag and started using the Tactical button layout. My question for you guys that have been using it is do you use the knife when it's point blank range? The circle button for knife seems kind of awkward right now since I've been used to clicking in the stick. Does it get better with time?

 

[Aselith]

You don't even have to lie down! Just sitting down under the Harrier and aiming your shield at it works great. It really is a hilarious alternative to packing a Stinger! Plus, it has the added bonus of really pissing the owner of the Harrier off. He'll hear it fire constantly but he won't get any kills! :lol

The problem with that is that you are vulnerable with just your shield out aimed at the sky. Doing the other thing allows you to shoot people who come after you.

it's so anoying getting random messages about boosting or "prestiging" gltich games. the ones asking for money (deposit 30 usd to get all challenges and prestige 10) are the worst. is there any way to stop this?

Christ yes. I hate those assholes and always block them but there seem to be more of them than there are of us.

 

[ZZMitch]

1/2. Mini-Uzi/P90 (The Mini-Uzi is probably better than the P90 on consoles because I would imagine aim assist would interfere in short-range fights and make the small firing rate difference relevant)
3. Vector
4. UMP
5. MP5k

I value your opinion, but if I ranked my favorite SMGs it would be the exact opposite of yours with the MP5K at number 1, except put Vector at number 5 and have mini-uzi as number 3

 

[quilter46761]

SMGs

The one point I'd like to make: you may be right that in 'smg' terms, the UMP isn't the best. However, it is the only AR or SMG that does 35 damage at long range, which means it will always be a three shot kill without stopping power - at long range, even the Scar and the Tar will drop to four shots. This means the UMP can occupy a role that no other gun can - it can be run with cold-blooded or with hardline or with lightweight to greater effectiveness than anything else.

 

[jiien]

The one point I'd like to make: you may be right that in 'smg' terms, the UMP isn't the best. However, it is the only AR or SMG that does 35 damage at long range, which means it will always be a three shot kill without stopping power - at long range, even the Scar and the Tar will drop to four shots. This means the UMP can occupy a role that no other gun can - it can be run with cold-blooded or with hardline or with lightweight to greater effectiveness than anything else.

Isn't the FAL in the same boat as the UMP?

I'm pretty sure the FAL is 50 in range, 35 out.

 

[quilter46761]

Isn't the FAL in the same boat as the UMP?

I'm pretty sure the FAL is 50 in range, 35 out.

Ah yeah - you're right. But, it seems bringing the FAL to a close range fight is a pretty good way to lose, at least for me.

 

[jiien]

Ah yeah - you're right. But, it seems bringing the FAL to a close range fight is a pretty good way to lose, at least for me.

Haha, not just you I think most people will lose a close range fight with a FAL. I was just sayin'.

I like to rock the FAL with my CB/Stinger build for that reason.

 

[GhettoGamer]

:lol Just had a TDM on Derail where everyone on the opposing team was snipers. I bullshit you not I run into the main building an the whole team is in there sniping, I actually had time to count them all before killing them.

 

[Fugu]

The one point I'd like to make: you may be right that in 'smg' terms, the UMP isn't the best. However, it is the only AR or SMG that does 35 damage at long range, which means it will always be a three shot kill without stopping power - at long range, even the Scar and the Tar will drop to four shots. This means the UMP can occupy a role that no other gun can - it can be run with cold-blooded or with hardline or with lightweight to greater effectiveness than anything else.

That's true, but all of those perks are garbage.

Lightweight makes practically no difference. Moving fast doesn't really do anything for you, especially when it's that small of a difference.
Equipping cold-blooded makes no sense other than as a one-time-use to shoot down a chopper gunner in objective-based games. Using it for conventional purposes (to not show up on UAV) means that for 90% of the game, your second perk is doing nothing but make you do less damage (because almost everyone else is using stopping power like they should be) and for the 10% of the game that it actually becomes relevant, you're not really getting any advantage, you're just "regular" (as in a player with cold blooded while the enemy team has UAV is the same as a regular player when the other team has no UAV). On top of that, in TDM and FFA, there's five (or more) other people to shoot; in objective-based games, going out of your way to find people isn't a priority anyway.
Hardline is nice and all but it seems like a better way to get your killstreaks is to use good perks, like ones that make your guns do more damage. Handy that such a perk exists.

Also, the benefit of having a gun that kills in three shots is entirely nullified by the fact that anyone with stopping power and a 30-40 assault rifle (TAR, AK, FAMAS, M16, F2000 -- not to mention the 35-55 FAL) has a gun that does equal damage (more damage the closer you get) minus the giant recoil problems.

Also, the FAL does 35-55 base which becomes 40-55 with the holographic sight (bugs are fun). Note that with a holographic sight that makes the FAL a two hit kill at any range with stopping power.

 

[Mr. B Natural]

Stuff

The big problem with smgs is that everybody's secondary (shotgun) is a better short and short-mid distance weapon than your primary. Your ADS might be brieft, but I don't even have to bother. I don't need steady aim. All I have to do is aim slightly into your general facility and pull the trigger once. No recoil. No nothing. This is why shotguns are typically primary weapons. This is why shotguns should always be primary weapons unless you nerf the crap out of them. IW didn't. If anything they're butter than utter. If you take me down with your smg when i got my shotgun out it's because I missed...it has nothing to do with you or your gun. You may get the first shot off, but we all know how many bullets it takes to kill someone with an smg. You are dependent on my failure. If you got around me, congrats, you can kill me with a pistol for all i care. It doesn't matter. Again...my failure for allowing that.

The other big issue is that the maps don't allow you to run and gun like you could in the small maps of cod4. Unless you're playing against morons, you're not gonna do good trying to get close to people. The amount of time spent checking the cheap corners, hiding spots and vantage points is astronomical. It can't be done. If you "break the choke plane" you're probably gonna die or at least get spotted.
These maps make it extremely hard to flank, too and that's what makes an smg an smg in cod4 and that's what speed is for. Maps are too big for flanking. Many of them are too narrow for flanking or have too few choke points or choke points with literally 4 or 5 ways to block it off. You're gonna get spotted on the way. It's too obvious. Too many campers, not enough detours. It takes too long to get to the flank and you're in danger of being hiding-camper-killed the entire time you're trying to get there. If you do make it, the game has probably changed by now and you are now where everyone is spawning. So much for that sneaking around idea you had.
The disappointing amount of lag and aim assist in this game doesn't help. Not sure how many times I've killed people after they quickly left my line of vision, but it's probably in the hundreds by now. Being fast doesn't help you escape like it did with cod4. Speedy Gonzalez was pretty fast with his lightweight smg...but his collision wasn't.

Do not fool yourself. Your success with smgs depends entirely on your enemy and your connection. If the enemy sucks, you will get to them first and hog-up some kills. If they're halfway decent, organized and familiar with the map layout then you're first to die...and second...and third. If you're host - go get em tiger. Wow, this gun is 'beast!' So much better than that other smg i tried last game. Don't have the best connection? - ah geez, that AR out-shot me at close range!? This gun sucks! Shoulda checked that 15th corner! It's not the gun, it's the game. It's not you, it's the enemy.
The guns in each category are fairly balanced in this game, but the gun categories aren't, especially when it comes to the way the game is laid out. Don't put yourself in a disadvantage unless you're bored.

 

[zero margin]

Took the plunge on aim sensitivity (from default to 5). Liking it. Not sure why I waited so long. Tempted to go up higher but I'll go with this for a week.

 

[Fugu]

The big problem with smgs is that everybody's secondary (shotgun) is a better short and short-mid distance weapon than your primary. Your ADS might be brieft, but I don't even have to bother. I don't need steady aim. All I have to do is aim slightly into your general facility and pull the trigger once. No recoil. No nothing. This is why shotguns are typically primary weapons. This is why shotguns should always be primary weapons unless you nerf the crap out of them. IW didn't. If anything they're butter than utter. If you take me down with your smg when i got my shotgun out it's because I missed...it has nothing to do with you or your gun. You may get the first shot off, but we all know how many bullets it takes to kill someone with an smg. You are dependent on my failure. If you got around me, congrats, you can kill me with a pistol for all i care. It doesn't matter. Again...my failure for allowing that.

This logic is flawed. You missed because I can dodge. As well, this assumes that all fights are 1v1s were both partners meet each other at the same time and with equal visibility. A player with a silencer can pretty easily get the jump on someone with a shotgun. You also only get one chance to hit someone with a shotgun (assuming all players involved have skill). There are no sidearms with the long range capacity of an SMG or the midrange effectiveness for that matter. As well, with the exception of akimbo weaponry, nothing is as effective at short range as the MP5k. The only sidearm that stands up to a decent primary weapon in terms of versatility is the Raffaca but that's because the Raffaca is basically a FAMAS.

The other big issue is that the maps don't allow you to run and gun like you could in the small maps of cod4. Unless you're playing against morons, you're not gonna do good trying to get close to people. The amount of time spent checking the cheap corners, hiding spots and vantage points is astronomical. It can't be done. If you "break the choke plane" you're probably gonna die or at least get spotted.

It can't be done? I have a 2:1 profile ratio (36k kills, 18k deaths) and I run around like a madman. There are only a few places that are notable deathtraps (such as the narrow hallway underneath the stairs in Skid Row) and the trick is to simply avoid those places because you're not going to win no matter what you do.

These maps make it extremely hard to flank, too and that's what makes an smg an smg in cod4 and that's what speed is for. Maps are too big for flanking. Many of them are too narrow for flanking or have too few choke points or choke points with literally 4 or 5 ways to block it off. You're gonna get spotted on the way. It's too obvious. Too many campers, not enough detours. It takes too long to get to the flank and you're in danger of being hiding-camper-killed the entire time you're trying to get there. If you do make it, the game has probably changed by now and you are now where everyone is spawning. So much for that sneaking around idea you had.

This is blatantly backwards. Large maps with smaller player numbers (6-9 vs. as much as 24 in CoD4) makes flanking a lot easier; it just means that you have to take your time and pay attention to the flow of the match. The spawn system isn't arbitrary and you can certainly use it to make flanking easier. But that's not even all that relevant considering the maps are so oversized that you can maneuver wherever the hell you want.

The disappointing amount of lag and aim assist in this game doesn't help. Not sure how many times I've killed people after they quickly left my line of vision, but it's probably in the hundreds by now. Being fast doesn't help you escape like it did with cod4. Speedy Gonzalez was pretty fast with his lightweight smg...but his collision wasn't.

The crappiness of the netcode doesn't affect the viability of SMGs as a whole.

Do not fool yourself. Your success with smgs depends entirely on your enemy and your connection. If the enemy sucks, you will get to them first and hog-up some kills. If they're halfway decent, organized and familiar with the map layout then you're first to die...and second...and third. If you're host - go get em tiger. Wow, this gun is 'beast!' So much better than that other smg i tried last game. Don't have the best connection? - ah geez, that AR out-shot me at close range!? This gun sucks! Shoulda checked that 15th corner! It's not the gun, it's the game. It's not you, it's the enemy.
The guns in each category are fairly balanced in this game, but the gun categories aren't, especially when it comes to the way the game is laid out. Don't put yourself in a disadvantage unless you're bored.

Wait what? My connection sucks ass. I perpetually have three bars; I played four rounds today with three bars, used the P90 for all four rounds, and ended up 14-14, 28-6, 33-7, and 29-9. Three bars isn't that bad, but it still means I'm a tenth of a second (plus the latency of the person I'm shooting) or more behind. Whenever I'm selected as host, the game drops me shortly thereafter.
If an AR beats you at short range, either you've done something wrong or the lag is prohibitive; the former means you aren't playing correctly and the latter doesn't change the balance of the game.
The statement "it's the enemy" means that the enemy has done something correctly that you didn't, meaning that you're not playing right. The game isn't inherently imbalanced against people who aren't you; if you've been killed and it's not lag, it's your fault. You've done something wrong. That's it.

 

[rodvik]

Well prestige certainly has let me know how much I relied on Ninja pro and Cold Blooded. Back to running and gunning baby

 

[FerranMG]

Well prestige certainly has let me know how much I relied on Ninja pro and Cold Blooded. Back to running and gunning baby

Hehe, me too.

I'm being destroyed by air support, my own footsteps distract me, and PEOPLE SEE MY FREAKING NAME IN RED WHEN THEY LOOK AT ME! :lol

 

[bobs...onGaf]

So I have recently become a dropshot douchebag and started using the Tactical button layout. My question for you guys that have been using it is do you use the knife when it's point blank range? The circle button for knife seems kind of awkward right now since I've been used to clicking in the stick. Does it get better with time?

O is like the defualt melee button in a few other games I play so it felt totally natural for me from day one with Tactical to knife people, so yeah with time im sure you will get used to it.

 

[aku:jiki]

Lightweight makes practically no difference. Moving fast doesn't really do anything for you, especially when it's that small of a difference

Nonsense. Putting on Marathon and Lightweight and equipping your handgun makes you the fastest flag-taker in the game. That's like the opposite of useless in an objective mode!

[

The other big issue is that the maps don't allow you to run and gun like you could in the small maps of cod4.

Sorry, but this is also nonsense. I rank top 3 in every single match I play and I run and gun like the flash on meth.

These maps make it extremely hard to flank, too and that's what makes an smg an smg in cod4 and that's what speed is for.

Wut. Flanking is the only thing I ever do. It's incredibly easy! Just always head in the opposite direction of your own team and the spawning system will hand you a flank. Very predictable.

 

[Tamanon]

Yeah, maybe I'm missing it, but there are at least two entrances and the possibility of flanking in almost every single room in the game. Of course sometimes the second entrance is a window you can jump into.

 

[DarkJC]

That's true, but all of those perks are garbage.

Lightweight makes practically no difference. Moving fast doesn't really do anything for you, especially when it's that small of a difference.
Equipping cold-blooded makes no sense other than as a one-time-use to shoot down a chopper gunner in objective-based games. Using it for conventional purposes (to not show up on UAV) means that for 90% of the game, your second perk is doing nothing but make you do less damage (because almost everyone else is using stopping power like they should be) and for the 10% of the game that it actually becomes relevant, you're not really getting any advantage, you're just "regular" (as in a player with cold blooded while the enemy team has UAV is the same as a regular player when the other team has no UAV). On top of that, in TDM and FFA, there's five (or more) other people to shoot; in objective-based games, going out of your way to find people isn't a priority anyway.
Hardline is nice and all but it seems like a better way to get your killstreaks is to use good perks, like ones that make your guns do more damage. Handy that such a perk exists.

This is a load of shit. I might be willing to agree with you about cold blooded but I think even that has its place.

edit: never mind, I don't even agree about Cold Blooded.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

That's true, but all of those perks are garbage.

Lightweight makes practically no difference. Moving fast doesn't really do anything for you, especially when it's that small of a difference.
Equipping cold-blooded makes no sense other than as a one-time-use to shoot down a chopper gunner in objective-based games. Using it for conventional purposes (to not show up on UAV) means that for 90% of the game, your second perk is doing nothing but make you do less damage (because almost everyone else is using stopping power like they should be) and for the 10% of the game that it actually becomes relevant, you're not really getting any advantage, you're just "regular" (as in a player with cold blooded while the enemy team has UAV is the same as a regular player when the other team has no UAV). On top of that, in TDM and FFA, there's five (or more) other people to shoot; in objective-based games, going out of your way to find people isn't a priority anyway.
Hardline is nice and all but it seems like a better way to get your killstreaks is to use good perks, like ones that make your guns do more damage. Handy that such a perk exists.

I am amazed at how wrong you can be. Obviously you find SP to be necessary to complement your playstyle, but it is not the only valid red perk. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of Cold-Blooded myself, but the remaining red perks all have a special place in my heart. Hardline, Lightweight, Danger Close - all amazing perks when used properly.

Hardline: Run with UAV->Jammer->Sentry Gun to become the most useful guy on your team, or run with Predator->Harrier->(your choice) to hit your killstreaks that much more often.

Lightweight: Put it on an SMG class to become a flag runner or a flanker.

Danger Close: It's not just for tube builds! Equip it with the airstrike killstreaks (Predator, Precision, Harrier, Stealth) to make lots of people go booooom.

Open your mind and embrace some variety!

 

[PetriP-TNT]

I first used UMP45, then P90 and now Mini-Uzi and I loved them all, but now the MU somehow feels the best of the bunch. Maybe it is because I was playing ACR between P90 and MU but something makes MU + Silencer a winning combo.

 

[LosDaddie]

Played for a solid 3hrs straight yesterday after taking a 2wk break. Other than a few matches lagging, I had a great time.

 

[aku:jiki]

I rewatched that Hutch vs WOR "debate" and in it WOR claims he plays professionally and not with gamebattles amateurs. What does he mean by that?

Danger Close: It's not just for tube builds! Equip it with the airstrike killstreaks (Predator, Precision, Harrier, Stealth) to make lots of people go booooom.

Danger Close + Headquarters + SMG Class + RPG = :lol :lol :lol

I first used UMP45, then P90 and now Mini-Uzi and I loved them all, but now the MU somehow feels the best of the bunch. Maybe it is because I was playing ACR between P90 and MU but something makes MU + Silencer a winning combo.

I've been an UMP user too, but am now very bored with it and am starting to hate the sound it makes... I'm feeling the P90 right now. Very pleasantly surprised by how many kills I get with it. Not feeling the love for the Uzi though. :/

 

[divisionbyzorro]

On a random note: I completed the "Think Fast: Stun" challenge last weekend, completely by accident (of course). Too bad the emblem isn't terribly awesome (it's a stop sign).

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

On a random note: I completed the "Think Fast: Stun" challenge last weekend, completely by accident (of course). Too bad the emblem isn't terribly awesome (it's a stop sign).

Same here, total accident. I tossed it blindly at a Domination point on Highrise.:lol

 

[aku:jiki]

On a random note: I completed the "Think Fast: Stun" challenge last weekend, completely by accident (of course). Too bad the emblem isn't terribly awesome (it's a stop sign).

The stop sign rules! One of my staple callsigns is the Stop with the The Denier title. Lets motherfuckers know that there will be no camping or cheesing in my match!

It's an added bonus when you find boosters in FFA too.

 

[jiien]

Hardline: Run with UAV->Jammer->Sentry Gun to become the most useful guy on your team, or run with Predator->Harrier->(your choice) to hit your killstreaks that much more often.

Lightweight: Put it on an SMG class to become a flag runner or a flanker.

I think Hardline is only useful if you're already good; it won't give you that extra edge to do better though. You need a good team to back you up if you're going to blow that slot for Hardline. I prefer SP, especially with something like the SCAR, because if I really plan to UAV/CUAV, that difference of one killstreak rarely matters. I've met players that consistently go something like 9 and 15, in which case, I doubt they'd get any use out of Hardline. Better to get SP and hopefully increase your chances of actually killing something and getting a three killstreak.

As for Lightweight, it's only useful if you get the Pro version. The speed increase isn't really all that useful, and you definitely won't be flanking with it unless you're using Marathon as well, in which case, it's more important that you halve your gun-raising speed after sprinting than that small 7% increase you get while sprinting. If I'm flanking with an SMG, I'd rather have Marathon and Cold Blooded (for the occasional times that the enemy team throws up a UAV while I'm flanking), or Stopping Power, so that when I flank a couple of them, they all go down fast, before they realize what's happening (even better with a Silencer).

 

[Fugu]

This is a load of shit. I might be willing to agree with you about cold blooded but I think even that has its place.

edit: never mind, I don't even agree about Cold Blooded.

I would have appreciated something to refute.

I am amazed at how wrong you can be. Obviously you find SP to be necessary to complement your playstyle, but it is not the only valid red perk. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of Cold-Blooded myself, but the remaining red perks all have a special place in my heart. Hardline, Lightweight, Danger Close - all amazing perks when used properly.

I recognize that stopping power is not the only good second perk, but hardline, lightweight, and cold-blooded are not good perks especially considering the second category contains two absolutely amazing perks (one of which I never use because it doesn't complement my playstyle).

Hardline: Run with UAV->Jammer->Sentry Gun to become the most useful guy on your team, or run with Predator->Harrier->(your choice) to hit your killstreaks that much more often.

By using a perk that complements your playstyle, you will invariably get more kills. Equipping hardline means the odds against you are stacked if your opponent is using a perk that makes them more deadly, meaning you have to work harder and/or play more carefully to get those two kills in the first place. Using an SMG with anything but stopping power is a death sentence because all of the advantages about them I mentioned prior are basically gone without it; you will have a much harder time getting two kills with an SMG without stopping power than you will getting three kills with stopping power because all of your versatility is thrown out the window (no one's going to let you land five hits on them with the vector). There are some guns where stopping power is nearly irrelevant (FAMAS) but even then, stopping power makes it so that a three round-burst kills at every range (I mentioned the FAMAS and not the M16 because the M16 has a shorter range and gains more realistic benefits from SP because of that), so on a map like Derail, having hardline is a huge handicap, not a benefit. I can still be the most useful guy on my team by equipping UAV/Jammer/Sentry without hardline; in fact, I can be more useful, because I'm getting three kills easy instead of two, and I'm more capable cover because all of my bullets do more damage.

Lightweight: Put it on an SMG class to become a flag runner or a flanker.

That's nice and all but that makes your primary weapon almost useless (especially against a player like me who is probably using the same gun -- with stopping power) in a straight-up fight and a flag carrier isn't much good if he's dead. Flag carrier builds aren't realistic because the game is designed to make you constantly aware of the fc's location, meaning the fc has to be prepared and equipped to fight. Someone without stopping power isn't equipped to win a gun fight. A flag carrier with lightweight is less of a flag carrier and more of a flag mover.

Danger Close: It's not just for tube builds! Equip it with the airstrike killstreaks (Predator, Precision, Harrier, Stealth) to make lots of people go booooom.

See this is a good perk. It can be combined with a playstyle to make something viable. Well-placed claymores become free kills, semtex become multikill beasts (mostly due to the bad way in which Danger Close is implemented -- instead of increasing the size of the damage sphere, it just made all of the values in the sphere higher), airstrikes become even more devestating, and, of course, there's the tube. You can use these traits to make a build that is effective against good players, which is something that lightweight, hardline, and cold-blooded miss. Lightweight will make you run faster, but you can't turn that into a way that makes you more effective at killing people (or taking a point for that matter). Hardline makes you get your streaks faster, but you can't turn that into a way that makes you on any way level with players using SP or DC. Cold-blooded makes you... not show up on radar, which is nice but seriously, I can't believe people use this perk.

Open your mind and embrace some variety!

I do embrace variety! Almost every single one of the first perks is viable becaue there's no really, really good perk in that category that sets an unreasonable standard for every other perk in the category. I personally use Scavenger because I like long killstreaks without having to rely on the guns of others, but I can see why a capable player would also use, say, bling. It's just that in the second perk category (and, to a much lesser extent, the third), there are two perks that are worlds better than the others and set a standard that make it very difficult to win firefights against capable players with those perks equipped. If your opponents aren't good (and most of the time they won't be), then this is irrelevant because you can use damn well anything and still score a kill; but a decent opponent will not lose to an opponent in a firefight that is doing substantially less damage to them without any complementing advantage to make that up.

 

[aku:jiki]

Using an SMG with anything but stopping power is a death sentence because all of the advantages about them I mentioned prior are basically gone without it

You really need to start speaking for yourself, dude. This is simply not true at all.

Not all of us are as insanely addicted to Stopping Power as you obviously are. It is very possible to do well without it, and talking like it's a fact that it is impossible to get kills without SP makes you sound incredibly unskilled. Sorry, but it's true.

Flag carrier builds aren't realistic because the game is designed to make you constantly aware of the fc's location, meaning the fc has to be prepared and equipped to fight.

Nonsense. A fast flag runner has the option of taking any path he wants to and being fast about it. With a good flag runner, the KILL sign is just a decoy and will not help the other team.

Not to be a dick, but you clearly know absolutely nothing about SMG/speed builds and should seriously stop posting like you're an expert on them. They're almost all I use and have used for 5 laps of prestige and 22 days of playtime, so I don't think it's unreasonable of me to consider myself experienced with them.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

In all of this you assume that my opponent sees me right when I see him. If I'm playing correctly, I'm getting the drop on him and not relying on winning a face-to-face firefight. If that's what you're doing, you're doing it wrong anyway, as the best you can hope for in that situation is a 50% chance of surviving. Your goal should be to outmaneuver, not outgun.

By using a perk that complements your playstyle, you will invariably get more kills. Equipping hardline means the odds against you are stacked if your opponent is using a perk that makes them more deadly, meaning you have to work harder and/or play more carefully to get those two kills in the first place.

Playing the UAV build means that your goal is to support, not necessarily get more kills. You will put up more UAVs in a match with Hardline than with Stopping Power, especially if you're smart and are flanking/outmaneuvering your opponent rather than relying on SP to win face-to-face firefights. And if you run Hardline with a Predator missile KS setup, you will be able to build into the high-value killstreaks more easily (see Max's Favela video from a couple pages back).

Note that the difficulty of getting streaks gets exponentially more difficult the higher you go - in other words, getting 4 kills with Hardline is easier than getting 5 kills with Stopping Power. Getting a predator missile at 4 is incredibly valuable because it can directly lead to Harriers, which can lead to plenty of other great stuff.

That's nice and all but that makes your primary weapon almost useless (especially against a player like me who is probably using the same gun -- with stopping power) in a straight-up fight and a flag carrier isn't much good if he's dead. Flag carrier builds aren't realistic because the game is designed to make you constantly aware of the fc's location, meaning the fc has to be prepared and equipped to fight. Someone without stopping power isn't equipped to win a gun fight. A flag carrier with lightweight is less of a flag carrier and more of a flag mover.

The enemy only knows the last known location of the flag. Marathon+Lightweight lets me jet out of there faster than they can catch up, and if I'm smart and moving around corners, the guy giving pursuit can never catch me. Again, the flag-runner isn't trying to win fights - he's trying to avoid them (something you seem to be missing in your love of stopping power).

See this is a good perk. It can be combined with a playstyle to make something viable. Well-placed claymores become free kills, semtex become multikill beasts (mostly due to the bad way in which Danger Close is implemented -- instead of increasing the size of the damage sphere, it just made all of the values in the sphere higher), airstrikes become even more devestating, and, of course, there's the tube.

At least we agree here.

Cold-blooded makes you... not show up on radar, which is nice but seriously, I can't believe people use this perk.

Don't forget that you're also invisible to air support. Again, what you're refusing to consider is that outsmarting your opponent is every bit as valuable as outgunning him. When a UAV is up, most player pay more attention to their UAV than they should, causing them to miss flankers.

I'll repeat it for the umpteenth and final time: you need to stop assuming that this game is always about winning firefights. If that's how you like to play, then yes - you should use stopping power. But that is not the only way to play, and it is, in fact, a less effective way to play.

 

[Draft]

Stopping power is an amazing perk and will help you win 1v1 firefights, but MW2 netcode is so fucking janky I think that 1v1 firefights are a dice roll with or without stopping power.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

...wow. Tycho at Penny Arcade just took a dump on MW2:

It really can't be overstated the extent to which Infinity Ward has destroyed that franchise for me. The most garish junior high peechee poem could not fully encircle their failure. They had our entire office fixed to their yoke, appearing nightly to take part in their howling, murderous ritual, and while we were able to endure the first few waves of inexplicable game behavior, soul by soul the faithful turned away.

We have had "Halo Night," a phenomenon I fully expect to recur this fall, but Modern Warfare 2 when operating within its actual parameters was able somehow to command a broader swath of our crew. Its pace (situated at the ragged edge of the reasonable) coupled with instant respawns created a space where more people could contribute in those clutch moments which are referred to with such reverence the following day.

It had originally been our intention to approach the most recent patch as a source of possible material, and attempts were made, but the the things they've fixed have been so ridiculous that they're almost impervious to satire. It would not surprise me to see a note in their next update which says

- The Combat Knife can no longer injure players in real life.

We put up with Tribes 2, a game which (as you may or may not recall) once released patch whose entire purpose was to revert the game to a previous version, one which was itself a patch! The difference is... well, there are many differences. Tribes entrusted players with a subversive and unprecedented suite of tools that would be considered hacks in any other game. You can fly in Tribes. You can fly in Modern Warfare 2 as well I suppose, once someone subverts the game world at a primal level. If I logged into MW2 now, would I see people soaring around with Spinfusors? Maybe I just didn't play it long enough.

Source: http://www.penny-arcade.com/2010/2/15/corruption-our-youth/

 

[jiien]

In all of this you assume that my opponent sees me right when I see him. If I'm playing correctly, I'm getting the drop on him and not relying on winning a face-to-face firefight. If that's what you're doing, you're doing it wrong anyway, as the best you can hope for in that situation is a 50% chance of surviving. Your goal should be to outmaneuver, not outgun.

Playing the UAV build means that your goal is to support, not necessarily get more kills. You will put up more UAVs in a match with Hardline than with Stopping Power, especially if you're smart and are flanking/outmaneuvering your opponent rather than relying on SP to win face-to-face firefights. And if you run Hardline with a Predator missile KS setup, you will be able to build into the high-value killstreaks more easily (see Max's Favela video from a couple pages back).

Note that the difficulty of getting streaks gets exponentially more difficult the higher you go - in other words, getting 4 kills with Hardline is easier than getting 5 kills with Stopping Power. Getting a predator missile at 4 is incredibly valuable because it can directly lead to Harriers, which can lead to plenty of other great stuff.

Don't forget that you're also invisible to air support. Again, what you're refusing to consider is that outsmarting your opponent is every bit as valuable as outgunning him. When a UAV is up, most player pay more attention to their UAV than they should, causing them to miss flankers.

I'll repeat it for the umpteenth and final time: you need to stop assuming that this game is always about winning firefights. If that's how you like to play, then yes - you should use stopping power. But that is not the only way to play, and it is, in fact, a less effective way to play.

I think the problem in all of this is that Fugu assumes that both opponents are on equal ground; you assume that you can outthink, outmanuver, and generally outplay the opponent.

I think Fugu pretty clearly said that if you are playing better than the opponent, then it doesn't really matter what you use. But you assume that when you're playing correctly, you will get the drop on the opponent. What happens if the opponent is also playing correctly? What if there is no clear way to get the drop on each other? Sure, it sure is easy against players that just struggle to get the coveted 1.0 ratio, but for those players where a 1.0 is an abysmal (probably drunk) game (no offense to anyone), you rarely get flanked, because you have the experience and awareness that comes with being a good player.

If you have two good players, chances are it will come down to a firefight. A good player won't let him/herself get flanked, and will try to do the flanking. If both players are doing that though, it will eventually come down to 1v1 firefights. And in that case, my money goes with the SP build, rather than the guy with Hardline.

Anyway, I think you two are simply arguing slightly different points anyway.

 

[TheGOHN]

So I have recently become a dropshot douchebag and started using the Tactical button layout. My question for you guys that have been using it is do you use the knife when it's point blank range? The circle button for knife seems kind of awkward right now since I've been used to clicking in the stick. Does it get better with time?

Yes, it gets better. Before long you wont even think about it.

 

[Mr. B Natural]

Stopping power is an amazing perk and will help you win 1v1 firefights, but MW2 netcode is so fucking janky I think that 1v1 firefights are a dice roll with or without stopping power.

Ding ding ding. THis is why smgs are bad. You're putting yourself in danger by putting an smg in your hand. You got a 50/50 chance no matter what. Listen to me and maximillian, not fugu. Watch max's videos where he shoots all those runners over and over and over again. Then, when they do get near him, he just AA12's them in the face. You can have a weapon that's a mid-range beast AND have the best short range weapons at the same time. And while you do all of that, you can stay safe in cover. No sacrificing needed.
The speed boost you get with smgs is useless.
The turn boost does not help either.

Smgs are best against people that don't know how to play, and if you're playing against people that don't know how to play then you can go ahead and use an lmg or f2000. The question is "how do i beat decent people or a partially organized team?"

 

[MidnightRider]

^^^^

RPD works against noobs and experts.

 

[Mr. B Natural]

Wut. Flanking is the only thing I ever do. It's incredibly easy! Just always head in the opposite direction of your own team and the spawning system will hand you a flank. Very predictable.

The maps just aren't big...they're big AND open with obvious and easy camping choke points. Meaning you will NOT get away with flanking. You need 1 person out of 6 to ruin your clever little idea. You need one guy with a mic.

Running and gunning also totally effs up the spawning. If you're too close to their spawn, they will spawn elsewhere. Stepping back a bit and using an AR allows you to lockdown the enemy and go 7500 to 3000 or worse.

 

[aku:jiki]

Ding ding ding. THis is why smgs are bad. You're putting yourself in danger by putting an smg in your hand. You got a 50/50 chance no matter what. Listen to me and maximillian, not fugu. Watch max's videos where he shoots all those runners over and over and over again. Then, when they do get near him, he just AA12's them in the face. You can have a weapon that's a mid-range beast AND have the best short range weapons at the same time. And while you do all of that, you can stay safe in cover. No sacrificing needed.
The speed boost you get with smgs is useless.
The turn boost does not help either.

Smgs are best against people that don't know how to play, and if you're playing against people that don't know how to play then you can go ahead and use an lmg or f2000. The question is "how do i beat decent people or a partially organized team?"

Ok, this is getting fucking annoying. Stop talking out of your ass about shit you don't know, you're just causing confusion for thread readers who are curious about speed classes.

Edit:

The maps just aren't big...they're big AND open with obvious and easy camping choke points. Meaning you will NOT get away with flanking. You need 1 person out of 6 to ruin your clever little idea. You need one guy with a mic.

Ok, it just went past fucking annoying!

 

[Fugu]

In all of this you assume that my opponent sees me right when I see him. If I'm playing correctly, I'm getting the drop on him and not relying on winning a face-to-face firefight. If that's what you're doing, you're doing it wrong anyway, as the best you can hope for in that situation is a 50% chance of surviving. Your goal should be to outmaneuver, not outgun.

Yes, that's what your goal should be while you're playing the game, but not while you're selecting perks. Your perks should make you better at winning even-handed fights and fights where you have a disadvantage because you should be winning fights where you have the advantage anyway. Tell me, does lightweight make it easier for you to sneak up on someone? No. Does cold-blooded? Not really, and I'll get to that. Hardline? Definitely not. As well, stopping power blatantly makes flanking more effective because it makes your ability to take out large groups of players much less dependent on how long it takes one of them to spot you. Let's say you're using the UMP without stopping power and you flank a guy using the UMP with stopping power. After you succesfully confirm one hit, you are now on a level playing ground with that foe. Both of you will die in two shots, meaning that if your opponent reacts fast enough, he can either soak up one shot, heal back up, and come back to kill you (because he does more damage per bullet so you will probably lose a fight on even ground), or he can dodge and engage you in a straight-up firefight which will strictly come down to skill. Yes, a bad player is more or less dead if they're flanked anyway, but this isn't about bad players, it's about good players. Had you flanked with stopping power, your opponent wouldn't be allotted the opportunity to soak up one more shot: your opponent's options are to land two (or more) shots on you in the time it takes you to land one or die.

Playing the UAV build means that your goal is to support, not necessarily get more kills.

Why can't it be both? I equip UAV because I'm good at utilizing UAV, as are, I'm sure, other players on my team. UAV doesn't just help your team, it helps you too. Also, decent players (particularly decent players using stopping power) will shoot down UAVs really, really fast, but that's not too relevent because sometimes one sweep can make a huge difference.

You will put up more UAVs in a match with Hardline than with Stopping Power, especially if you're smart and are flanking/outmaneuvering your opponent rather than relying on SP to win face-to-face firefights.

This statement is a little weird. First of all, the amount of UAVs you can possibly put up in a map is bottlenecked directly by both the amount of times you die and the amount of times you kill; is a hardline player supposed to get to four kills (or whatever their highest killstreak occurs at), kill themselves, and do it again? That seems to be the only way to utilize hardline the way you're describing it. The second part of this statement is weird because having stopping power doesn't mean that you have to take people on in straight-up firefights; it means that however you decide to fight your opponent, you will deal more damage. As I've highlighted above, this is extremely good for flanking; I only use one-on-one firefights as an example for comparison because it is one example where neither player intrinsically has any kind of advantage. Note that stopping power is also extremely good if you get flanked/shot by some guy hiding under a staircase that isn't using stopping power because it gives you an out.

And if you run Hardline with a Predator missile KS setup, you will be able to build into the high-value killstreaks more easily (see Max's Favela video from a couple pages back).

But it will be more difficult to get four kills in the first place. Getting four kills in a row isn't easy against a team of players who all do more damage than you (again, assuming these players are good).

Note that the difficulty of getting streaks gets exponentially more difficult the higher you go - in other words, getting 4 kills with Hardline is easier than getting 5 kills with Stopping Power. Getting a predator missile at 4 is incredibly valuable because it can directly lead to Harriers, which can lead to plenty of other great stuff.

No it's not, it's easier. That's why you have killstreaks. Most killstreaks kill people for you which contribute to your streak; having things kill for you is certainly better than not having things kill for you. It's harder to get your first streak, yes, but having hardline makes it more difficult to get your first streak too. Also, in regards to harriers, they get shot down pretty damn quick; what are you going to do with hardline if your harrier gets shot down and you need four more kills to get your chopper gunner? It's not like you have stopping power or danger close to help you kill people, or cold-blooded to keep you off of UAV, or lightweight to help you... run around and stuff.

The enemy only knows the last known location of the flag. Marathon+Lightweight lets me jet out of there faster than they can catch up, and if I'm smart and moving around corners, the guy giving pursuit can never catch me. Again, the flag-runner isn't trying to win fights - he's trying to avoid them (something you seem to be missing in your love of stopping power).

What kind of moron follows the flag carrier instead of cutting them off or waiting at the point that he has to take it? The flag carrier has to be prepared to win fights if they happen. Literally anyone can cap the flag if no one interrupts them, and going 8% faster (which still makes you slower than a regular player with an SMG if you're not using an SMG) isn't going to prevent you from being T-boned. Also, it doesn't update based on the last known location, it updates periodically like UAV.

Don't forget that you're also invisible to air support.

Not human-controlled air support.

Again, what you're refusing to consider is that outsmarting your opponent is every bit as valuable as outgunning him.

Yes, outsmarting your opponent is equally as valuable when you're playing the game. But equipping perks don't make you smarter, they give you advantages in certain situations. Stopping power gives you an advantage in every situation that involves a gun. That's a lot of situations.

When a UAV is up, most player pay more attention to their UAV than they should, causing them to miss flankers.

Yes. Players who are bad pay too much attention to UAV. I'm not talking about beating bad players because beating bad players doesn't take much thought.

I'll repeat it for the umpteenth and final time: you need to stop assuming that this game is always about winning firefights. If that's how you like to play, then yes - you should use stopping power. But that is not the only way to play, and it is, in fact, a less effective way to play.

You're right, this game isn't always about winning firefights; unfortunately, I was never contending that so I wouldn't be too hasty in calling that a win. I use the example of firefights because a 1v1 firefight is the only example of a completely level playing field. Stopping power is a factor every single time you fire a gun. When you flank, you are not guaranteed a victory; when you flank someone with stopping power (and you don't have stopping power) your odds of winning are even worse, to the degree that you're leaving it up to player skill, which is something you absolutely do not want to do if your opponents are competent. And again, this goes for any situation that involves firing a gun.

 

[Mr. B Natural]

^^^^

RPD works against noobs and experts.

Mostly agree cause it's a great camp gun with high power, accuracy and nice ironsights. Things that can't be said for the smg class in this game. It forces you to take it slow and smart like playing HC in cod4 and that's the way the maps, killstreaks, damage and latency of mw2 dictates.

 

[Fugu]

Mostly agree cause it's a great camp gun with high power, accuracy and nice ironsights. Things that can't be said for the smg class in this game. It forces you to take it slow and smart like playing HC in cod4 and that's the way the maps, killstreaks, damage and latency of mw2 dictates.

While I agree that it's a good gun, it's a good gun because it has a giant clip, kills in two hits, and fires fast enough; it's not good because you can sit there and shoot laggy players with it. You can do that with any gun. I also don't understand where the notion that you have to play MW2 slow came from; I am perpetually in front of my team and I have a 2:1 kdr profile.