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[todahawk]

I know it's part of the game and I shouldn't feel guilty but just played a FFA match on Scrapyard... I was just about through the door of a small shed when a smoke grenade lands in front of me. I turn left and see a guy crouched in the corner. I have my AA-12 and pop him for a headshot and notice he was rank 4.

I don't see anyone coming so I go prone and start stealing his care package... a chopper gunner.

I waited a bit but decided to call it in. He quit right after that.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

stuff

Okay; I'm done with this. I don't have the time or the energy to continue arguing with a wall.

Dear lurkers, followers, and part-time readers: Please pay no attention to Fugu. Stopping Power is not the only viable red perk. You need to find the combination that works best for you, your playstyle, and the guns you use. There's certainly nothing wrong with Stopping Power, and it's never a bad choice, but you should be open to trying other perks and learning how to utilize them to your advantage.

Stopping Power: Lets you kill faster with bullets (one fewer hit).
Hardline: Lets you reach your killstreak bonus faster.
Danger Close: Lets you kill faster with explosives and killstreak rewards.
Lightweight: Lets you move faster and get behind enemies easier.
Cold Blooded: Lets you avoid air-support and be invisible to UAVs.

If I get the drop on somebody and kill him before he can react, Stopping Power was essentially wasted, and I would have been better off having Hardline in that case - or any of the other perks for that matter! Thus, Fugu is wrong when he says that Stopping Power is always better.

Learn the maps, learn how to manipulate situations to your advantage, and you'll find that stopping power is a crutch you don't always need. You'll certainly find that some guns feel like they need it more than others (based on how they feel to you), but you should never feel like you have to rely on stopping power to succeed.

 

[ultim8p00]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-rbCy3wLFU&feature=player_embedded

Holy shit and I thought MW2 was fucked up

 

[Fugu]

If I get the drop on somebody and kill him before he can react, Stopping Power was essentially wasted, and I would have been better off having Hardline in that case - or any of the other perks for that matter! Thus, Fugu is wrong when he says that Stopping Power is always better.

I'll ignore the part of the post where you tell people I'm wrong without telling people why because my posts speak for themselves. If someone wants to read them, they will.

Rather, I'll focus on this little tidbit.
How bad is the reaction time of the player you were playing against that you managed to land three or more bullets without him trying to get out of the way? A good player doesn't get shot three times without reacting, end of story. You cannot win a fight against a good player on the virtue that you saw them first. If you do, either they fucked up or they're not very good.

I didn't say stopping power was always better. I said -- several times -- that its benefit is more relevant.

Learn the maps, learn how to manipulate situations to your advantage

Yes.

and you'll find that stopping power is a crutch you don't always need.

What? By that logic, everyone should be using the vector (or the masterkey) because damage is a crutch.

 

[uraldix]

Lightweight: Lets you move faster and get behind enemies easier.
Cold Blooded: Lets you avoid air-support and be invisible to UAVs.

The only two I use all the time. The faster ADS with Lightweight pro is invaluable when you like to run and gun.

I have Stopping Power on the M16 build but I only use that on the open maps when I don't feel like sniping.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-rbCy3wLFU&feature=player_embedded

Holy shit and I thought MW2 was fucked up

I take it this is something that can only happen on certain servers?

 

[aku:jiki]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-rbCy3wLFU&feature=player_embedded

Holy shit and I thought MW2 was fucked up

We've had that in MW2 already! That's what the infinite ammo glitch games ended up looking like, pretty much.

A good player doesn't get shot three times without reacting, end of story.

What game are you talking about here? You're certainly not talking about MW2, the game where every weapon available does so much damage and you have so little HP that making it into cover if someone with decent aim spots you is nigh impossible.

Oh, and the guy that gets shot first in MW2 has his sights all messed up and they keep bouncing everywhere, making it very hard for him to shoot back. So, yeah, what game are you talking about again?

 

[kaizoku]

No way is stopping power the supreme perk! They're all quite viable for different aproaches, I've gone through stages of using them all.

Very rarely do I find myself dying because me and a guy ran into each other head on and he had more damage than me. This only happens with shotguns really.

Stopping power is primarily useful for burst weapons, famas, m16, snipers, where you hope to kill in one hit or two max because if you dont they might get away or you lose to the recoil.

other than that I might use it on my assault class where I expect to run around and hop fire with shotguns or LMG/AR of choice.

but I find cold blooded by far the best perk, it helps you stay hidden and avoids thermal snipers as well as killstreaks. That's so valuable.

Staying hidden helps you get kills. I would say those benefits usually outweigh stopping power.

 

[Fugu]

What game are you talking about here? You're certainly not talking about MW2, the game where every weapon available does so much damage and you have so little HP that making it into cover if someone with decent aim spots you is nigh impossible.

Oh, and the guy that gets shot first in MW2 has his sights all messed up and they keep bouncing everywhere, making it very hard for him to shoot back. So, yeah, what game are you talking about again?

You have 100 health, all ARs (except the FAL), SMGs, and LMGs do somewhere between 20-40 damage (more with stopping power) meaning it takes anywhere between two to five hits to kill someone. Snipers do 70 (50 with a silencer) so they work a little differently but fire extremely slowly and have a more advanced aiming mechanism. Shotgun damage is off the wall and then... stops, so it's not exactly comparable. You have a good half second to react before you're dead if your opponent has precise accuracy. Modern Warfare 2 shares many characteristics with the engine that begat it (Quake 3); the relevent part here is that you are extremely mobile. If someone fires at you, you can jump, crouch, go prone from a midair state (PC only methinks unless there's a way to separate crouch and prone on consoles), hide behind cover, run around like a madman, or strafe to put yourself into safety. If you are good, you should not be getting yourself caught in situations where it's impossible to react.

As for the aiming penalty that comes about as a result of getting shot, the trick here is that unless you can nullify that aiming penalty (such as by going ADS if you were shot while not ADS or by going close enough to your opponent that said penalty doesn't have any effect), your strategy probably shouldn't be to instantly try and shoot back at the guy who shot you.

Staying hidden helps you get kills. I would say those benefits usually outweigh stopping power.

Staying hidden doesn't help you kill smart, co-ordinated players because once you kill one of them (assuming you manage to kill one of them), the rest of them will be on a position to be on your ass and kill you, and they won't have a hard time doing it because they'll be doing more damage than you. The problem with reducing your auxilliary visibility (IE making you not show up on radar or not turn into a scary white thing on thermal -- keeping in mind that a player with thermal on can still see you) is twofold: First of all, a player can still *see* you, which restricts your vantage points to a huge degree against a co-ordinated team. Second of all, there's literally no point in time in which you are both undetectable and a priority. A contested piece of objective is instantly announced to the entire game, and in kill-based games you are only one of many and as soon as you become an interference, you become a target revelead either through logic or killcam.

 

[Wthermans]

ACOG + Intervention
Any Secondary
Any Equipment
Stun Nades
Sleight of Hand Pro
Stopping Power Pro
Commando Pro

I LOVE this kit. Closest thing I can find to unscoped bolt-actions and it adds a great challenge to the game. You usually have one shot to survive, it allows you to be mobile and still cap flags and such, and if you miss, your can learn your mistakes and improve your game for other guns.

As for the Tier 2 Perk discussion, SP isn't useful on certain guns (like the UMP which only benefits in an extremely small range). Lightweight is downright useless (7% speed increase seems almost more like a placebo). Danger Close is only good if you're going to tube with OMA or RPGs (or if you're switching to it before calling in a Chopper Gunner or AC-130). Hardline seems to be the most "universal" T2 perk as you will always benefit from it regardless of what gun you're using. Cold Blooded really shines on AA Kits, but it's close to being a universal perk like Hardline. All of this is just IMO.

 

[Snuggles]

I'm only like level 28 or 29 but I love my SCAR red dot site with the Magnum as my alt, it's old fashioned compared to watch you guys are using but it gets the job done for me. I've tried the other assault rifles but none of them have hit the right combo of damage/range/versatility that the SCAR offers. I usually use the fast reload and radar invisibility as my perks. I most play deathmatch but I do pretty well overall, I just keep moving while staying in buildings and out of the open.

This game was starting to collect dust for me but I'm getting back into it, I just play it casually with some real life friends and it's some good, lighhearted fun. I don't give a shit about stats or any of the hardcore stuff, I just try to play just for fun without worrying about any of that other stuff that can cause frustration.

 

[LosDaddie]

huh....I've always thought Cold Blooded was a great Perk. Silly me

 

[aku:jiki]

(PC only methinks unless there's a way to separate crouch and prone on consoles)

No, I do it all the time on 360. You just hold B in midair and you land prone.

If you are good, you should not be getting yourself caught in situations where it's impossible to react.

Yeah... I just don't know what game you're talking about here. Do you only play private matches with perfect ping, or something?

What you're talking about is certainly not viable for an average player playing on a pub host where bullets pretty much always lag behind. It is never, not once, possible for me to make it to cover if someone's started shooting at me - not even if I'm one step away from the door and actually make it inside. And that is not because I'm not fast enough; I'm a knife runner for fuck's sake!

I even made a post earlier in the thread asking if like I have a connection problem or what the fuck is the problem with never being able to make it into cover and some other folks agreed. I'll ask it again; does anybody else ever make it into cover when they're being shot? Is it possible on a consistent basis? Should I complain to my ISP? Last time I didn't have anyone disagree with me, so I'd love to know because it is literally never possible for me (or my friends btw) to rush to nearest cover if I'm being shot. The only thing to do is to spin around and shoot back and hope I have better aim.

 

[Pancakes]

I even made a post earlier in the thread asking if like I have a connection problem or what the fuck is the problem with never being able to make it into cover and some other folks agreed. I'll ask it again; does anybody else ever make it into cover when they're being shot? Is it possible on a consistent basis? Should I complain to my ISP? Last time I didn't have anyone disagree with me, so I'd love to know because it is literally never possible for me (or my friends btw) to rush to nearest cover if I'm being shot. The only thing to do is to spin around and shoot back and hope I have better aim.

Oh sure I make it into the cover but because of the lag I die right behind it.

 

[Animator]

Lightweight is downright useless (7% speed increase seems almost more like a placebo).

Ahahaha no.

Pretty much the best perk in the game for flanking the enemy team.

 

[Wthermans]

No, I do it all the time on 360. You just hold B in midair and you land prone.

Yeah... I just don't know what game you're talking about here. Do you only play private matches with perfect ping, or something?

What you're talking about is certainly not viable for an average player playing on a pub host where bullets pretty much always lag behind. It is never, not once, possible for me to make it to cover if someone's started shooting at me - not even if I'm one step away from the door and actually make it inside. And that is not because I'm not fast enough; I'm a knife runner for fuck's sake!

I even made a post earlier in the thread asking if like I have a connection problem or what the fuck is the problem with never being able to make it into cover and some other folks agreed. I'll ask it again; does anybody else ever make it into cover when they're being shot? Is it possible on a consistent basis? Should I complain to my ISP? Last time I didn't have anyone disagree with me, so I'd love to know because it is literally never possible for me (or my friends btw) to rush to nearest cover if I'm being shot. The only thing to do is to spin around and shoot back and hope I have better aim.

The problem with cover is two-fold. First is the lag compensation which has been in-game since the first COD, it was exacerbated in COD2 for some reason and never really went back to the way it was in COD1/UO. You also have to consider that the PC's view is more forward than the actual model so even though your view shows you making it to cover, it's entirely possible that your ass is still hanging out. The other major factor is the way bullets penetrate surfaces. Even if you round the corner and your target no longer has LOS, if they continue to fire, some of the bullets can penetrate the corner (even the hardiest of covers) and kill you if you're already in the red from damage prior to turning the corner.

 

[Wthermans]

Ahahaha no.

Pretty much the best perk in the game for flanking the enemy team.

A 7% speed increase doesn't mean much to me. I've done all the T2 challenges and emblems and it's pretty much the definition of a placebo perk.

 

[ultim8p00]

No, I do it all the time on 360. You just hold B in midair and you land prone.

Yeah... I just don't know what game you're talking about here. Do you only play private matches with perfect ping, or something?

What you're talking about is certainly not viable for an average player playing on a pub host where bullets pretty much always lag behind. It is never, not once, possible for me to make it to cover if someone's started shooting at me - not even if I'm one step away from the door and actually make it inside. And that is not because I'm not fast enough; I'm a knife runner for fuck's sake!

I even made a post earlier in the thread asking if like I have a connection problem or what the fuck is the problem with never being able to make it into cover and some other folks agreed. I'll ask it again; does anybody else ever make it into cover when they're being shot? Is it possible on a consistent basis? Should I complain to my ISP? Last time I didn't have anyone disagree with me, so I'd love to know because it is literally never possible for me (or my friends btw) to rush to nearest cover if I'm being shot. The only thing to do is to spin around and shoot back and hope I have better aim.

Yes, I do it fairly consistently with my UMP class. If you have lightweight or an SMG class then it should be pretty easy if you react fast enough.

 

[ultim8p00]

A 7% speed increase doesn't mean much to me. I've done all the T2 challenges and emblems and it's pretty much the definition of a placebo perk.

Lightweight...probably not. Definitely not lightweight pro. That thing is awesome with UMP. Plus combined with sleight of hand and you can actually ADS as fast as being neutral while running.

 

[Wthermans]

Lightweight...probably not. Definitely not lightweight pro. That thing is awesome with UMP. Plus combined with sleight of hand and you can actually ADS as fast as being neutral while running.

That is true. The Pro version isn't too bad on certain weapons.

 

[todahawk]

I even made a post earlier in the thread asking if like I have a connection problem or what the fuck is the problem with never being able to make it into cover and some other folks agreed. I'll ask it again; does anybody else ever make it into cover when they're being shot? Is it possible on a consistent basis? Should I complain to my ISP? Last time I didn't have anyone disagree with me, so I'd love to know because it is literally never possible for me (or my friends btw) to rush to nearest cover if I'm being shot. The only thing to do is to spin around and shoot back and hope I have better aim.

I'm gonna guess that some of the blame falls on the P2P setup and lack of dedicated servers. I never had laggy problems like this on COD4.

And to answer your question, I rarely make it to cover and often die after making it around the corner or behind cover. I can't imagine that many people aren't running with FMJ and stopping power. Kill cam seems to reinforce that it's lagginess.

 

[Mr. B Natural]

While I agree that it's a good gun, it's a good gun because it has a giant clip, kills in two hits, and fires fast enough; it's not good because you can sit there and shoot laggy players with it. You can do that with any gun. I also don't understand where the notion that you have to play MW2 slow came from; I am perpetually in front of my team and I have a 2:1 kdr profile.

Are you 360 player? I'd love to watch you play.

^ It's lag and aim assist. It's a horrible combo for anyone that passes by rom side to side. If they removed aim assist then fast strafers might have half a chance.

 

[Mileena]

Lightweight...probably not. Definitely not lightweight pro. That thing is awesome with UMP. Plus combined with sleight of hand and you can actually ADS as fast as being neutral while running.

Why someone would be using Lightweight and not Marathon is beyond me. Some people are so silly.

 

[Wthermans]

Why someone would be using Lightweight and not Marathon is beyond me. Some people are so silly.

Marathon is a T1 Perk. Lightweight is a T2 Perk. You can use both (and most Witch classes do).

 

[Mileena]

Marathon is a T1 Perk. Lightweight is a T2 Perk. You can use both (and most Witch classes do).

Well you obviously have trouble reading sir. He said

Plus combined with sleight of hand

Lightweight + SoH makes no sense to me, but to each his own.

 

[richiek]

Is there something wrong with Xbox Live? I keep getting connection errors with MW2.

 

[Ballistik]

Yeah, I'm getting kicked out as well. Can't enter matchmaking.

 

[got2bekidding]

Is there something wrong with Xbox Live? I keep getting connection errors with MW2.

Same here. Says "Error - Communication with the Xbox LIVE servers has been interrupted"

 

[Ballistik]

I thought it was my connection because I was in the middle of host migration, and when it reached 100%... it just froze and then kicked me out.

 

[Wthermans]

Well you obviously have trouble reading sir. He said

Lightweight + SoH makes no sense to me, but to each his own.

I realized that after I read it a second time. :lol

It's really for the Pro versions of both perks someone would use both.

 

[kaizoku]

NOOO NO XBOX LIVE!! WTF!

 

[divisionbyzorro]

This better get fixed by the time my regularly scheduled game starts up!

 

[got2bekidding]

lol I thought my gold had run out.

 

[BlinkGT]

Can't play, same error. :/

 

[minx]

Is there something wrong with Xbox Live? I keep getting connection errors with MW2.

Same thing just happened to me

 

[Fugu]

Are you 360 player? I'd love to watch you play.

^ It's lag and aim assist. It's a horrible combo for anyone that passes by rom side to side. If they removed aim assist then fast strafers might have half a chance.

I play on PC. I have played on 360 the same way but not much because I can't stand controllers for FPSes.

I can still record myself playing but I don't think you care now.

No, I do it all the time on 360. You just hold B in midair and you land prone.

Yeah... I just don't know what game you're talking about here. Do you only play private matches with perfect ping, or something?

What you're talking about is certainly not viable for an average player playing on a pub host where bullets pretty much always lag behind. It is never, not once, possible for me to make it to cover if someone's started shooting at me - not even if I'm one step away from the door and actually make it inside. And that is not because I'm not fast enough; I'm a knife runner for fuck's sake!

I even made a post earlier in the thread asking if like I have a connection problem or what the fuck is the problem with never being able to make it into cover and some other folks agreed. I'll ask it again; does anybody else ever make it into cover when they're being shot? Is it possible on a consistent basis? Should I complain to my ISP? Last time I didn't have anyone disagree with me, so I'd love to know because it is literally never possible for me (or my friends btw) to rush to nearest cover if I'm being shot. The only thing to do is to spin around and shoot back and hope I have better aim.

My connection sucks and I know what problem you're talking about. I'm not talking about what's good in laggy games where your connection's bad and lag correction gets people behind cover killed; I'm talking about what's good against good players when the game works right.

 

[AlucarD.eq]

Same on Ecuador (latin america) can´t play and I only have one more day

 

[CitizenCope]

Yeah I can't get in a game on 360 now.
George Washington would go ape shit over this if he were alive today.

 

[aku:jiki]

What?! I was just done with my work on the computer and getting ready to play... Oh shit, I feel like a meth junkie in rehab all of a sudden.

A 7% speed increase doesn't mean much to me. I've done all the T2 challenges and emblems and it's pretty much the definition of a placebo perk.

You're focusing too much on the number. Yes, 7% sounds pathetic in theory, but you can really feel the difference with Marathon+Lightweight+Handgun (you run even faster with those equipped).

I'm a huge knifer and for a while I was doing incredibly poorly... I never succeeded in my flanks, I never got close enough to get the stab in if a guy noticed me and I was just doing all-around terribly. I thought people had gotten way better at countering knifers, but nope, the problem was that I was using SP instead of LW! Like you, I didn't think 7% could make any difference but it did make a huge difference.

 

[dskillzhtown]

NOOO NO XBOX LIVE!! WTF!

xbox.com is even down.

 

[Lionheart1827]

Whoa servers just took a dump!

 

[funcojoe]

Infinity Wards site wont even load for me.

 

[MIMIC]

Checking this thread just to make sure that it wasn't just my games (Street Fighter 4 & Halo 3) :lol

 

[th3dude]

Boo I want to play. Let's go ms!

 

[rjcc]

http://twitter.com/XboxSupport/status/9156913535

 

[Fugu]

What?! I was just done with my work on the computer and getting ready to play... Oh shit, I feel like a meth junkie in rehab all of a sudden.

You're focusing too much on the number. Yes, 7% sounds pathetic in theory, but you can really feel the difference with Marathon+Lightweight+Handgun (you run even faster with those equipped).

I'm a huge knifer and for a while I was doing incredibly poorly... I never succeeded in my flanks, I never got close enough to get the stab in if a guy noticed me and I was just doing all-around terribly. I thought people had gotten way better at countering knifers, but nope, the problem was that I was using SP instead of LW! Like you, I didn't think 7% could make any difference but it did make a huge difference.

It's not even really 7% which is the best part; it makes you 7% faster than someone using the same primary weapon, which means an AR user with lightweight is still slower than an SMG user without it.

 

[jiien]

The only two I use all the time. The faster ADS with Lightweight pro is invaluable when you like to run and gun.

Just for clarity for readers, you don't get faster ADS with Lightweight Pro. You lift your gun faster after sprinting with Lightweight Pro. Faster ADS is Sleight of Hand.

ADS is Aiming Down the Sight.

 

[Khalifa Jayy]

WTF is going on. I got dropped from my nba 2k game and now I can't play this online. Is XBOX Live getting some maintenance done?

 

[aku:jiki]

Just for clarity for readers, you don't get faster ADS with Lightweight Pro. You lift your gun faster after sprinting with Lightweight Pro. Faster ADS is Sleight of Hand.

ADS is Aiming Down the Sight.

And to clarify even further, "lift your guns" means hip fire, not ADS. Lightweight has no effect on ADS at all.

I don't see the benefit of using it, personally, except on a class with akimbo weapons (and I don't use those except for Rangers).

 

[Insaniac]

WTF is going on. I got dropped from my nba 2k game and now I can't play this online. Is XBOX Live getting some maintenance done?

yeah i couldn't join any games on MW2 getting some xbox live communication error