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[aku:jiki]

I'm listening to the Major Nelson podcast with 402 and he says: "Everybody knows how involved we are with the community."

The guy hasn't posted on the IW forums for 2 months, and his last post was some condescending shit about how "they might look into that." Or he hangs out on Twitter and answers hard-balling questions like "how do I switch weapons with the AC-130?"

So this guy's job basically consists of lying his fucking face off and checking his Twitter on his phone whenever he's waiting for the bus or whatever? I can do that job, hook me up games industry!

Edit: WHAT THE FUCK? Now he said "If something [i.e. a bug] comes up, we're immediately working on a fix for it and pushing it out as fast as we can." Is that why the CP glitch took 3 weeks to fix with another week of certification? Go fuck yourself, Robert Bowling.

 

[DoomGyver]

Yeah I had heard that Bowling hasn't even logged in to the community forums for 2 months now. Ridiculous.

And an LOL video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D__VfutA6k

 

[switch-it]

And an LOL video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D__VfutA6k

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Yeah I had heard that Bowling hasn't even logged in to the community forums for 2 months now. Ridiculous.

And an LOL video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D__VfutA6k

I'm convinced that Bowling had his wings clipped after taunting Activision reps and Treyarch publicly (the whole "major douchebag" incident during the W@W press cycle). I feel like he can't do what he really wants to in his position. Essentially, blame Activision.

I've said this before, but in a way its a shame that the game itself is so good, because all the peripheral stuff is pretty shit.

That video is certainly hilarious. It's obviously some sort of strange lag behavior; somehow the host saw the two of them as being closer than the viewer did. I'd like to see that recreated in a private match with both players standing still and seeing if the Commando lunge really is that long.

 

[Frank "Trashman" Reynolds]

Noah Heller, aka Senior Super Douche, is finally going to get his revenge.

 

[Hanmik]

THERE'S SOMEBODY IN THE GIFT SHOP!!!

HAHA that´s comedy gold.. :lol

 

[ACESandEIGHTS]

Noah Heller, aka Senior Super Douche, is finally going to get his revenge.

:lol :lol :lol Senior Super Douche. Funniest thing I've ever seen blogged. Hate on FZT all you want, but he's a good fit for the franchise.

 

[aku:jiki]

I swear I saw somebody in the gift shop!

Something I've been amusing myself with today is noting the silly names the kids have, and man, what the hell is up with the trend of retarding up "smart" words? Why do they want their name to be iFuSiiOnZz? What are they a fusion of? Why would they want to be x AToMiiKZz x? Are they really small? Are they really i-zZDyNaMiiKZz-i or are they just doing the same shit over and over? And what do they mean by being called iTaCKTiiKZz when all they do is camp a corner? Or even worse, what the hell does PuR3 T4KTiiKZz even mean? They are a being made of pure tactics?

Yeah, the thought is stupid but so are these fucking names. :lol

 

[vatstep]

Played this for the first time in almost two months last night. I never really wanted to stop; I was just busy, went on vacation, etc. Didn't suck nearly as bad as I thought I would, and had a few great games. Looking forward to getting back into it a bit.

Excited for the new maps (was never really a big fan of Crash and Overgrown, though). I would've thought they'd be $10, but I really don't care. What's another $5? People are just looking for another reason to hate on Activision (which I don't blame them for at all). If another series had a $15 map pack released, the uproar wouldn't be nearly as severe.

 

[snack]

1600 points for 5 maps, or 800 points for a game called Perfect Dark?

 

[divisionbyzorro]

1200 points for 5 maps, or 800 points for an up-res'd port of an N64 game that's only playable through nostalgia-goggles?

Fixed.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I swear I saw somebody in the gift shop!

Something I've been amusing myself with today is noting the silly names the kids have, and man, what the hell is up with the trend of retarding up "smart" words? Why do they want their name to be iFuSiiOnZz? What are they a fusion of? Why would they want to be x AToMiiKZz x? Are they really small? Are they really i-zZDyNaMiiKZz-i or are they just doing the same shit over and over? And what do they mean by being called iTaCKTiiKZz when all they do is camp a corner? Or even worse, what the hell does PuR3 T4KTiiKZz even mean? They are a being made of pure tactics?

Yeah, the thought is stupid but so are these fucking names. :lol

Says the guy whose GAF name looks like he just pounded the keyboard :lol

 

[bobs...onGaf]

1200 points for 5 maps, or 800 points for an up-res'd port of an N64 game that's only playable through nostalgia-goggles?

Fixed.

I'l go with the N64 classic. A full game is much better value for money than 5 multiplayer maps full stop, especially when 2 of those maps are also remakes, the remake of a full game makes more sense.

I just dont understand how people can justify paying so much - if people put up with it they will take the piss more.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I'l go with the N64 classic. A full game is much better value for money than 5 multiplayer maps full stop, especially when 2 of those maps are also remakes, the remake of a full game makes more sense.

I just dont understand how people can justify paying so much - if people put up with it they will take the piss more.

But you're doing the same thing by enabling the continual re-release of N64 ports. Sure, they've done more with it than, say, Virtual Console releases, but in the end it's just an up-res'd N64 port. The only real work they did was to slap in some netcode to make it playable online. I personally can't understand how you can pay $10 for that; you're just sending the message that gamers will shell out money for the same shit they played a decade ago.

Obviously we each see value in different things.

 

[Nizz]

And an LOL video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D__VfutA6k

Stuff like this is exactly why I ejected the disc out of my PS3 last night. That disc has been in the drive pretty much since November. Maybe I just need to take a break from the game for a bit.

It's like anything that can go wrong in the game snowballed for me the past two nights. Sucks getting thrown into matches that are just about done, and you're thrown on the losing team. Getting spawned right in front of the enemy team with my back to them, adding insult to injury.

Incredible when people can stab you with a wall between you. On Sub Base. In one of those rooms where there are staircases going up to the second floor. I'm heading up the stairs when I go down. I'm like wtf just happened? I watch the killcam and somebody who was outside managed to magically appear behind me in a second. From outside. With a wall between him and me...

In another match, I see an enemy Harrier and I switch out to my Stinger class. Aim, get a lock-on, shoot. Twice. Neither Stinger takes the Harrier down. Enemy shows up in front of me, I take him down. I have Scavenger equipped, resupply a Stinger. Get ready to aim at the Harrier again when I hear a stabbing sound. It's me going down. I'm the last kill.

Back out, go to main menu, go to XMB, eject disc, put game away. Could just be I'm a little burned out with the game. Maybe I'll play something else for a couple of days and then come back to MW2. But right now, I'm staying away from it...

 

[aku:jiki]

Says the guy whose GAF name looks like he just pounded the keyboard :lol

WTF! Mine is the name of Hotsuma's sword in the PS2 Shinobi, which is automatically awesome.

Everybody thinks I'm some anime geek though.

Incredible when people can stab you with a wall between you.

I was playing against a knife runner who had this as, like, his thing. He'd always try to lunge at you if you were behind cover - probably trying for montage clips or some shit - so I just learned to exploit that by standing like a foot behind cover so his knife couldn't reach across. He still kept doing it. :lol

Speaking of montage-seekers, did you guys ever run into any? They're rare, but seeing idiots jump off everything they can, do a 720 and miss a quickscope by like a mile is kinda hilarious. Killing the target before the sniper can get his noscope off is also fun. :lol

 

[bobs...onGaf]

But you're doing the same thing by enabling the continual re-release of N64 ports. Sure, they've done more with it than, say, Virtual Console releases, but in the end it's just an up-res'd N64 port. The only real work they did was to slap in some netcode to make it playable online. I personally can't understand how you can pay $10 for that; you're just sending the message that gamers will shell out money for the same shit they played a decade ago.

Obviously we each see value in different things.

You bring up a good point and I respect your opinion, but Im worried more about price points than remakes. In my opinion a remake is perfect as long as its priced correctly, PD is priced pretty well and has a lot of content as its a full game. A map pack shouldnt get away with being so expensive, especially if 2 of the maps have been played regulaly as close as 6 months ago.

Another big difference for me between remakes of something like Perfect Dark and the map pack is simply that with PD you can just skip it if you have had your fill and dont fancy a trip down nostalgia lane. Currently theres no way of just buying the 3 new maps for CoD.

Lets put the issue of remakes behind us though, map packs shouldnt be more expensive than full arcade games - the premium Halo map packs overall cost like 2400 MS points for 9 maps, that STUPIDLY expensive, CoD looks to be going down the same route which sucks, if there are 3 map packs for CoD im going to be paying the equivelent of a full priced game just for maps, thats not on.

 

[DarkJC]

But you're doing the same thing by enabling the continual re-release of N64 ports. Sure, they've done more with it than, say, Virtual Console releases, but in the end it's just an up-res'd N64 port. The only real work they did was to slap in some netcode to make it playable online. I personally can't understand how you can pay $10 for that; you're just sending the message that gamers will shell out money for the same shit they played a decade ago.

Obviously we each see value in different things.

I get the point you're trying to make but this is such a terrible example. They had to do a whole lot more than just "slap in some netcode" for this port, and a whole lot more work than it takes to create 3 maps and port 2. You're essentially just ignoring a bunch of work that has been done and then wondering why people will pay $10 for it.

 

[Mileena]

I swear I saw somebody in the gift shop!

Something I've been amusing myself with today is noting the silly names the kids have, and man, what the hell is up with the trend of retarding up "smart" words? Why do they want their name to be iFuSiiOnZz? What are they a fusion of? Why would they want to be x AToMiiKZz x? Are they really small? Are they really i-zZDyNaMiiKZz-i or are they just doing the same shit over and over? And what do they mean by being called iTaCKTiiKZz when all they do is camp a corner? Or even worse, what the hell does PuR3 T4KTiiKZz even mean? They are a being made of pure tactics?

Yeah, the thought is stupid but so are these fucking names. :lol

even better... iTz x AToMiiKZz x

I swear most of these kids have to be brain dead to come up with these terrible names.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Does Scavenger affect the Throwing Knife btw?

 

[Lionheart1827]

Could it be possible that the 5 maps arent the only thing included with this stimulus pack? I could've sworn that 402 posted a twitter a couple of months ago asking to submit new ideas for emblems and titles. Any word on that?

 

[backflip10019]

Does Scavenger affect the Throwing Knife btw?

Yeah, your throwing knife gets reloaded with Scavenger, same as any piece of equipment (minus blast shield of course).

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Wow, didn't know that. I need to use that combination.

 

[Tornado Condor]

Does Scavenger affect the Throwing Knife btw?

Well when you get a bag you get a throwing knife

edit: fuck you backflip!

 

[backflip10019]

Well when you get a bag you get a throwing knife

edit: fuck you backflip!

<3 you too pal.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I get the point you're trying to make but this is such a terrible example. They had to do a whole lot more than just "slap in some netcode" for this port, and a whole lot more work than it takes to create 3 maps and port 2. You're essentially just ignoring a bunch of work that has been done and then wondering why people will pay $10 for it.

People aren't paying $10 for it because of all the effort. They're paying $10 for nostalgia. And I guarantee you that this was a simple task, done by a very small team. I'm sure they have some simple licensed middleware to handle the netgame, and they're running some sort of beefed-up N64 emulator under the hood.

As for me how I personally make decisions on buying content, I don't really give two shits how much effort it took to make it - I care about how much value I'll get personally for it.

 

[_Bro]

But you're doing the same thing by enabling the continual re-release of N64 ports. Sure, they've done more with it than, say, Virtual Console releases, but in the end it's just an up-res'd N64 port. The only real work they did was to slap in some netcode to make it playable online. I personally can't understand how you can pay $10 for that; you're just sending the message that gamers will shell out money for the same shit they played a decade ago.

Obviously we each see value in different things.

That doesn't make sense.

$10 for a full game. That's singleplayer and multiplayer - each containing a full list of features.

$15 for 5 maps. That's 1/4 the price of the actual game. MW2 at $60 includes a campaign, co-op challenges and a multiplayer game. Each one of these includes a full list of features.

You can't tell me that paying $5 more for five maps is better than buying a full game for $10.

Let's not even get on topic about sending a message; people were bitching about the message when Halo 2 charged just a little more for their maps.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

That doesn't make sense.

$10 for a full game. That's singleplayer and multiplayer - each containing a full list of features.

10$ for a repolished game that's nearly 10 years old..

 

[_Bro]

It's still a game.

 

[ZZMitch]

It's still a game.

I will be buying both PD XBLA and the Map Pack... I think both will be worth it relative to the amount of fun and time I will probably put in to each.

 

[JustHadToJoin]

Well if he really wanted to he could write down every match he plays on those 5 maps and add up the time whether its a 5 min death match or 10 min sabatoge. When all is said and done I'm sure the total time played will be over 10 hours, which is how long full games are these days. So I wouldn't say they are "just maps".

 

[kuYuri]

Could it be possible that the 5 maps arent the only thing included with this stimulus pack? I could've sworn that 402 posted a twitter a couple of months ago asking to submit new ideas for emblems and titles. Any word on that?

It's possible either they plan on having that in another DLC pack or it's a plan that never fell through.

 

[aku:jiki]

So I wouldn't say they are "just maps".

Agreed, plus the fact that a good map isn't something you just toss together, throw a few decorative trees on and call finished. Really don't like that it seems that is the common opinion on maps, that it's throwaway shit you shouldn't charge for. I want the opposite - really well-made shit you should charge a fair dime for.

I'm hoping these maps lean more toward Favela or Underpass (which is a brilliant map, haters!) than the sloppy Afghan. Did we spot any tags in the video? (The Kriegler and Composite logos scattered on the maps tells us who made them.)

 

[kaizoku]

that commando lunge looks like it was assisted by some laggy host as well, the guy was jumping before he even stabbed.

most annoying lag death earlier. on estate going from the boat house towards the house, was on the left by the bushes on my side of the wall. I knew an enemy was nearby due to red dot in the last few seconds so I inched out to check by the car.

surprised to see he was right next to the wall trying to snipe the area behind me, literally only the bricks between us. so I shot him point blank with my M16, every shot hit his bloody head, he 'wakes up' and one shots me with his intervention. WTF. M16 with stopping power, no silencer, right in his crouched head.

the killcam for him shows that he was hit, his screen was bloody...so....what just happened? the M16 hit from that close but didnt kll him? fine. whatever.

oh and more hate for the intervention, that shit is flat out broken. I had jumped on a lamp post for kicks and I heard someone take a shot at me so I jumped down and the guy reloaded and shot me as I was falling down. Thats bullshit. I hate how that gun makes bullets magically zone in on you. would not have been possible with any other gun to go from scope, reload, re-scope, adjust onto falling target and kill before they leave sight.

 

[tiddles]

I swear I saw somebody in the gift shop!

Something I've been amusing myself with today is noting the silly names the kids have, and man, what the hell is up with the trend of retarding up "smart" words? Why do they want their name to be iFuSiiOnZz? What are they a fusion of? Why would they want to be x AToMiiKZz x? Are they really small? Are they really i-zZDyNaMiiKZz-i or are they just doing the same shit over and over? And what do they mean by being called iTaCKTiiKZz when all they do is camp a corner? Or even worse, what the hell does PuR3 T4KTiiKZz even mean? They are a being made of pure tactics?

Yeah, the thought is stupid but so are these fucking names. :lol

I had to ring Xbox Live support the other day, and boy was I pleased my gamertag was both pronounceable and easy to spell

 

[TheSeks]

The game is P2P/Listen server, I don't see why you are surprised. If he's host he could easily find them using netstat.

Not even that, he only needs to crash the game and see the Quake 3 Aren--er--"Infinity Ward 4" engine's dumping people's IP's because of the P2P/Listen servers.

Spoiler

Not hating on Q3A as it doesn't do this shit with it's console, only IW's modified engine does. Security/privacy risk, much?

 

[Dresden]

oh and more hate for the intervention, that shit is flat out broken. I had jumped on a lamp post for kicks and I heard someone take a shot at me so I jumped down and the guy reloaded and shot me as I was falling down. Thats bullshit. I hate how that gun makes bullets magically zone in on you. would not have been possible with any other gun to go from scope, reload, re-scope, adjust onto falling target and kill before they leave sight.

Sounds like he just had decent aim.

Went back to the Tar21 w/ Silencer and it's pretty destructive. I decided to level up my stealth bomber challenges and got 20 bombers in six matches. Scavenger, Stopping Power and Ninja Pro. Feels like I'm shooting lasers after using nothing but the Uzi for so long.

 

[mr_boo]

Starting to migrate over to the Barret after long Intervention usage sessions. I have to say - all the Intervention acclimation is paying off in the transition to the Barret - I'll be looking forward to moving to the WA200 next.

Sounds like he just had decent aim.
Went back to the Tar21 w/ Silencer and it's pretty destructive. I decided to level up my stealth bomber challenges and got 20 bombers in six matches. Scavenger, Stopping Power and Ninja Pro. Feels like I'm shooting lasers after using nothing but the Uzi for so long.

Though it's probably fourth on my list of preferred ARs, I think overall the TAR is probably the best all around AR out there. Outclasses the ACR, F2000 and M4 in damage of course and has the highest RoF amongst the 40-30 AR class.

 

[DoomGyver]

Despite what intervention users say it's much easier to get headshots with the intervention and it's ridiculous auto-aim. The M21, you have to actually AIM and be on the head. Not near it, on it.

The community calls the M21 "nooby" it's not a noob weapon if you don't spam it. Now the intervention, that's nooby.. despite the bolt action.

Spoiler

lol nooby

 

[backflip10019]

Despite what intervention users say it's much easier to get headshots with the intervention and it's ridiculous auto-aim. The M21, you have to actually AIM and be on the head. Not near it, on it.

The community calls the M21 "nooby" it's not a noob weapon if you don't spam it. Now the intervention, that's nooby.. despite the bolt action.

Spoiler

lol nooby

What? How are any snipers at all "nooby?" I feel like because of how overpowered ARs and everything else is in this game, it takes way more skill to be effective with a sniper. Noob tubes, knife runners and HBS users, now they're nooby.

 

[Belfast]

I swear I saw somebody in the gift shop!

Something I've been amusing myself with today is noting the silly names the kids have, and man, what the hell is up with the trend of retarding up "smart" words? Why do they want their name to be iFuSiiOnZz? What are they a fusion of? Why would they want to be x AToMiiKZz x? Are they really small? Are they really i-zZDyNaMiiKZz-i or are they just doing the same shit over and over? And what do they mean by being called iTaCKTiiKZz when all they do is camp a corner? Or even worse, what the hell does PuR3 T4KTiiKZz even mean? They are a being made of pure tactics?

Yeah, the thought is stupid but so are these fucking names. :lol

I, perhaps irrationally, automatically hate 95% of online gamers because of their name.

Edit: Also...

Spoiler

SOMEBODY'S IN THE GIFT SHOP!!!

 

[aku:jiki]

What? How are any snipers at all "nooby?" I feel like because of how overpowered ARs and everything else is in this game, it takes way more skill to be effective with a sniper. Noob tubes, knife runners and HBS users, now they're nooby.

This is the truth. Sniping is a fucking bitch. You have to see the other guy first and have blazing fast aim, or you're dead from his one FAMAS burst.

I'm still loving the silenced SCAR. The damn thing is insane on a running kit. So many surprising kills with it. Like just now on Underpass, two guys were capping B, one standing and looking away and one lying down and checking my direction. Like a dumbass, I go for the standing guy first and with terrible aim too so I waste 90% of the clip on him and just as a desperate last measure I dragged the crosshairs to the other guy while still firing and he died!

Oh, by the way, DnB Oos captured the Harrier freakout on Highrise (when it drops to the ground and hovers there) on video here. I had never seen it myself. I love how half his team tries to jump up on it. :lol

 

[jlevel13]

Usually I don't bother with it, but the last couple days I went back to playing some free-for-all and was really surprised to see people still trying to boost in it. I just can't figure out what they think is fun about boosting. It's nice for my points though, even got a few triple kills in the same match. Maybe I just got in to some crappy matches, but it seems like an almost challenge free mode - with a silenced tar-21 I was going on a killing rampage.

 

[DoomGyver]

What? How are any snipers at all "nooby?" I feel like because of how overpowered ARs and everything else is in this game, it takes way more skill to be effective with a sniper. Noob tubes, knife runners and HBS users, now they're nooby.

Last night I was using the M21 and everyone on the other team was running around with an intervention. They accused me of the normal modded controller and how I had no skill because I didn't use the intervention, calling me a noob. I wasn't comparing ARs vs snipers, I was comparing sniper vs sniper.

It simply takes more skill to get headshots (OHK) with the M21/coldblooded. Not only do you have less auto-aim, you can only OHK to the head.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

This is the truth. Sniping is a fucking bitch. You have to see the other guy first and have blazing fast aim, or you're dead from his one FAMAS burst.

Hence why I've completely given up on sniping. ARs and SMGs all the way baby!

I'm hoping these maps lean more toward Favela or Underpass (which is a brilliant map, haters!) than the sloppy Afghan. Did we spot any tags in the video? (The Kriegler and Composite logos scattered on the maps tells us who made them.)

I love Underpass too! It's probably the only map where each weapon class is equally viable, assuming you're smart about the routes you take through it.

And as much as I used to hate Karachi, I'm starting to really like that map too. At this point, the only maps I don't like are Wasteland and Sub Base. Afghan is below par, but definitely playable.

 

[DarkJC]

As for me how I personally make decisions on buying content, I don't really give two shits how much effort it took to make it - I care about how much value I'll get personally for it.

So in the previous post you stated: "The only real work they did was to slap in some netcode to make it playable online. I personally can't understand how you can pay $10 for that". That's what I was responding to.

And then now you're trying to state that doesn't matter; it's the value! Well ok, that's fine, hold that stance from the get go then.

edit: And seriously, are you even qualified to say that all they're doing is using a beefed up N64 emulator?

 

[divisionbyzorro]

So in the previous post you stated: "The only real work they did was to slap in some netcode to make it playable online. I personally can't understand how you can pay $10 for that". That's what I was responding to.

And then now you're trying to state that doesn't matter; it's the value! Well ok, that's fine, hold that stance from the get go then.

edit: And seriously, are you even qualified to say that all they're doing is using a beefed up N64 emulator?

I care about personal value. But the post I responded to, and half of the "stimulus package" thread, are arguing that the price is ridiculous, mainly in light of the fact that two of the maps are remakes. I simply found it amusing that people are holding up Perfect Dark as their bastion of value when that is a remake. If you want to compare maps to XBLA games, there are plenty to pull from: Splosion Man, Trials HD, Braid, etc. Hell you could go to BF1943 as a comparable if you wanted (although that only had 3 real maps, so perhaps your own value justification fails here).

And I am a software developer by trade; not in the game space, but my entire career has been in development. And it's just good business. They can't expect nostalgia to sell enough copies of Perfect Dark to justify a full development effort. That's probably why they tossed in the Goldeneye stuff - they are trying to grab some of that nostalgia too to justify the effort they did put in. It's of course possible that they have enough orignal assets and source code to rebuild it against the XBox, but it's far more likely that, given the state of N64 emulation, they based all work on an emulation. Perhaps someone from the studio has a NeoGAF rep who could chime in.

I don't want to belittle anything they did, but I know that, as a developer myself, I would much rather take a proven tech (emulation in this case) than rebuild everything myself. Getting the job done for less work is the holy grail of software development, and I expect they were smart enough to do it that way.

Of course, everybody makes purchase decisions based on personal value, but we all measure that differently and justify it differently. I would buy a full HD remake with updated controls and enemy AI for $15-20, because then it would be worth more than a few minutes of laughs. But I won't pay $10 for a straight port with anti-aliasing and some new guns because it doesn't offer anything significantly better than my N64 cartridge (or emulation, if you go that route).

And I find the civilized debate on this thread a refreshing change from the "fuck you!" attitude that permeates the "stimulus package" thread. It's like arguing with a wall made of solid douchebag over there.

 

[Xux]

Damn, the high-res leak shots are, like, night and day from the YouTube DL ones I saw originally.

...which were blown up and put on the COD Wiki.

Anyway, I thought the Bailout loading screen was a bridge over a river complete with dock and visible sewers but it turned out to just be a street and a tank. :/ Oh well, still my most looked forward to of the new maps. I liked the two maps that being brought from MW so I'm lookin' forward to playin' those again, too.

Striker's pretty crazy; cleaned out a few rooms with that stuff. Mini-Uzi and WA2000 are my main guns right now both with my trusty 93R.

 

[DoomGyver]

high-res shots?

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Damn, the high-res leak shots are, like, night and day from the YouTube DL ones I saw originally.

Links?