-Pyromaniac-
Member
The main point is that if it's a primary less people will use them. That's just how it's going to end up. And that's how I prefer it for reasons you may or may not agree with, but I'm definitely not in the minority.
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- Thread starter kuYuri
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So you're the only fan that counts? I'm pretty sure more people love the SPAS than hate shotguns, actually. I don't think we can even count the amount of SPAS montages on YouTube...-Pyromaniac- said:
And do you guys actually have any arguments? I mean, I think I made a decent point for why they should be secondary... "FUCK SHOTGUNS" is not exactly a counterargument.
Shotguns in WaW are actually basically the same as they are in CoD4 and MW2 (the Trench Gun has even been nerfed to uselessness exactly like the Models :lol). The double-barrel is even comparable to the SPAS. They're still useless as primaries.divisionbyzorro said:
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Like I said, I'm sure I'm not in the minority that would like to see less of them since they are indeed making the change based on fan feedback. Or at the least if people are going to use them it will be at a sacrifice, in which case I wouldn't care as much.aku:jiki said:So you're the only fan that counts? I'm pretty sure more people love the SPAS than hate shotguns, actually. I don't think we can even count the amount of SPAS montages on YouTube...
And do you guys actually have any arguments? I mean, I think I made a decent point for why they should be secondary... "FUCK SHOTGUNS" is not exactly a counterargument.
Shotguns in WaW are actually basically the same as they are in CoD4 and MW2 (the Trench Gun has even been nerfed to uselessness exactly like the Models :lol). The double-barrel is even comparable to the SPAS. They're still useless as primaries.
I just think the game has gotten too arcadey. And like I said that's just my personal thought, I dislike seeing people rambo-ing with a shotgun in every single map like they were born to do it.
Same with knifing, which I also hear they will fix a bit (by not including commando, or whatever that perk was).
Exactly how do you know that shotguns, specifically, are a direct result of fan feedback and not just Treyarch safing it because shotgun secondaries are new? I mean, do you even play MW2? I'm not sure how you can say that the majority hates shotguns - everybody has one! Especially the SPAS, AA-12 and Striker.-Pyromaniac- said:
See, this is where I have to stop taking you shotgun haters seriously. You're basically saying that you hate that people use a shotgun as a primary, so you want them to make it a primary? That's just illogical, to use a nice term.-Pyromaniac- said:
divisionbyzorro
Member
aku:jiki said:
I think that shotguns were useless in that game mostly because of how good the MP40 was (and all the SMGs, really). Right now there aren't too many guns that outgun the shottys in MW2 at close range, save for akimbo machine pistols or certain akimbo SMGs.
And while I realize you can't really compare W@W to MW2 on a damage-to-damage basis, because they are two separate games with separate balance issues, I took the liberty to look at the Denkirson charts for the shottys. The SPAS is vastly superior to the Double Barreled in W@W in terms of range; the silenced SPAS is actually almost identical to the DBS. The Trench Gun is pretty awful; it has a range similar to the Models, with less damage!
In general, shotguns in MW2 seem to be just straight up better than shotguns in W@W. The secondary/primary change had nothing to do with it.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Which is why this will make everybody happy. There are people that dislike the fact that they can have a shotgun and a good weapon, and there are people who like shotguns, period. This way the people who like shotguns can still use them and those who dislike it will either see a decrease of their use, or at least know that they are making a notable sacrifice to use them.aku:jiki said:
Call my weird though, I seem to feel like they are stronger in MW2 than any other game. My beef has less to do with shotguns and more to do with people using secondaries as mains. I think secondary weapons should be secondary weapons and mains should be mains. Yet these shotguns that people have as their secondaries are top tier shit.
I never said people HATE shotguns, just the way they're being used can be annoying is all. Same goes with the knife and same goes with a bunch of other secondary weapons. And I stopped playing MW2 a while ago so if anything has changed than my bad, but I just posted because I plan to get black ops and someone posted something about it.
Where is this majority that dislikes shotguns and the floods of fan feedback asking Treyarch to make shotguns primaries again? I've been playing this game alot since when it launched and I have never heard anyone on live, never seen a youtube rant, or even a post in this thread (until you came along) where people were clamoring to make shotguns primaries?-Pyromaniac- said:
Dude, please don't act like the MW2 expert when you don't even know what the commando perk is :lol-Pyromaniac- said:
Just out of curiousity, how many hours/days have you played mw2 (and also what level).-Pyromaniac- said:
divisionbyzorro
Member
zam said:
To be fair, this happened a lot at the very beginning of the game, especially when the Models were OP'd. Then we had Javelindom, and now it's all Commando/OMA bitching. But shotgun complaints have been almost nonexistent for months upon months.
No, actually, if you get in range, even an MP40 will not beat a well-aimed DBS. The problem is getting in range - even tiny maps like Corrosion, Dome or that oil rig level are small enough for shotguns as primaries.divisionbyzorro said:
I'd say the SPAS is better, the rest are fairly on par with WaW. I have no idea about the numbers - just going by the feel of using them. Well, except the Trench Gun which just fucking sucks and apparently that's the result of a patch...divisionbyzorro said:
Honestly, I think you have a huge problem distinguishing "everybody" from "you."-Pyromaniac- said:
Yeah, but the bitching back then was about akimbo models, not about them being primaries, and IW fixed the models (in true IW fashion by nerfing it to the ground), and yeah as you say, shotgun complaints haven't been around for several months, though apparently now there suddenly is a majority of people clamoring for them to be fixed that noone has seen except Pyromaniac..divisionbyzorro said:
MidnightRider
Banned
I heart shotguns
I got a shotgun and a rifle and a 4 wheel drive.
I got a shotgun and a rifle and a 4 wheel drive.
itsnervedamage
Member
Don't hard cap the shotty range (magic evaporating bullets) and just adjust the choke spread to balance them, and I think shotguns could be pretty workable.
It's not like you aren't boned if you have an uzi and some guy peppers you with an ACR anyway, they just need to make sure they get idle sway right on the appropriate weapons to balance them out.
I don't think it would be a bad thing if secondaries are less powerful in BOPS (heh), it's good to change up some of these things a little each time to keep the series fresh.
All I really hope for though, is less random crap.
Also, stopping power shouldn't be a perk, it should be armor piercing rounds or something and should take up your main equip slot.
It's not like you aren't boned if you have an uzi and some guy peppers you with an ACR anyway, they just need to make sure they get idle sway right on the appropriate weapons to balance them out.
I don't think it would be a bad thing if secondaries are less powerful in BOPS (heh), it's good to change up some of these things a little each time to keep the series fresh.
All I really hope for though, is less random crap.
Also, stopping power shouldn't be a perk, it should be armor piercing rounds or something and should take up your main equip slot.
Xux
Member
aku:jiki said:
People also seem to forget that, if the shotgun user is good enough to kill on their first shot, they can swap out their pistol and be right back at the level of someone in MW2.
aku:jiki said:
Haha, nah I was talking about real life; apparently it's popular amongst collectors and competitive shooters and some military people like it 'cause it's stronger than the gun that replaced it.
aku:jiki said:If americans love the M1911 for historical reasons, that's cool, but you gotta realize that quite a few of those millions of copies of CoD are sold outside the US and we don't know your military history. Besides our own countries' weapons (and Sweden's are kinda dull and generic too), we only know what we see in movies! So I want to see more movie guns...
What other movie do you need?
I've been thinking something similar - though regarding bullet penetration. I've started to think that no weapon should penetrate anything without FMJ. I know "shoot through stuff!" is a selling point for CoD, but damn it, it removes such huge strategical aspects of the game... That you can never ever take cover because the bastard will just spray the wall anyway.itsnervedamage said:
At the very least, silenced weapons should not be able to penetrate.
Khalifa Jayy
Banned
Most silenced weapons take nearly an entire clip as it is. What more do you want?aku:jiki said:
Critical Jeff
Banned
The riot shield is so broken in this game. Half the time I'll get knifed by the enemy, even though I'm looking at them the whole time. Also I get shot through the shield alot too. So broken, but fun to use. Just went 19-16 on Vacant with:
riot
duel magnums
M/L/C
throwing knife
riot
duel magnums
M/L/C
throwing knife
ThirstyFly
Member
So my friend and I were in a Team Deathmatch game today and we got teamed up with 3 or 4 clan guys on Fuel. First thing the clan guys did was all hide in the glitched rock. WTF? What good is 3+ people hiding in the same goddamn rock going to do? That's half our team in the same spot fighting for the same few kills that wonder by.
Why are people so hellbent on destroying this game? Arrrrrgh.
Why are people so hellbent on destroying this game? Arrrrrgh.
grap3fruitman
Banned
I like to use it too but this sort of bullshit pisses me off so much. Why can't they fix it? I want bullets to bounce back too, it's mentioned in one of the loading screens but it's only in a single game mode as far as I can tell. What the hell is that? BS.Critical Jeff said:
johnFkennedy
Member
grap3fruitman said:
Which game mode is that? I've never seen anyone get killed by ricocheting bullets.
Patrick Bateman
Member
Err, I think they mention it as a feature of the riot shield..grap3fruitman said:
Haven't played in a week and a half because tubes make me sad. I guess that doing that and running lower killstreaks made the game more relaxing on my return tonight. I managed to do well for myself even in those dreaded games where my team does nothing constructive. Shotguns are very therapeutic.
TheApatheticOne
Member
I'll admit, back in the day when the dual 1887's were all the rage, I hated shotguns. But aside from the SPAS and the dual Rangers, I honestly dont think shotguns are annoying. I may be alone, I didnt comb through everyones post, but I think they are pretty balanced at this point (being different, effective, not overpowered). Of course, Im just NOW getting back into this game, as my best performance of last night 9-9, shows.
Playing last night, just had to quit. I dont rage really when I play video games, but this game brings it out of me everytime. Everyone had the jump on me, everyone was quicker, better. If I had the jump on someone, they would still win. It wasnt even due to quickscoping, tubing, or witch builds. Just one of those night where everything I did was the wrong thing for that moment in time, and was a general poo-festival in my mouth. :lol
Playing last night, just had to quit. I dont rage really when I play video games, but this game brings it out of me everytime. Everyone had the jump on me, everyone was quicker, better. If I had the jump on someone, they would still win. It wasnt even due to quickscoping, tubing, or witch builds. Just one of those night where everything I did was the wrong thing for that moment in time, and was a general poo-festival in my mouth. :lol
Sometimes I wish I could just punch my teammates in the mouth through the tv. I was playing Search and Destroy on Scrapyard this morning before going to work and all was going well.
It was time for the usual side switching so we were on the defending side. The game starts and round after round all my teammates just rush to the other side of the map, get themselves killed and I'm the last survivor that's supposed to save the day. Fuck that.
It was time for the usual side switching so we were on the defending side. The game starts and round after round all my teammates just rush to the other side of the map, get themselves killed and I'm the last survivor that's supposed to save the day. Fuck that.
Me and my buddies finaly decided to give MW2 a big farewell card.
We got back to COD4 Team Tactical and we play it more and hapier than ever before.
3 vs 3 matches, various of gamemodes, basic Killstreaks, no akimbos, no OMA, more comprehensive maps, everything is pitch pefect.
I never thought Shipment or Wetwork will be so beautiful. And they are beautiful.
After getting back to COD4 whole MW2 looks like one big pile od nonsense.
We got back to COD4 Team Tactical and we play it more and hapier than ever before.
3 vs 3 matches, various of gamemodes, basic Killstreaks, no akimbos, no OMA, more comprehensive maps, everything is pitch pefect.
I never thought Shipment or Wetwork will be so beautiful. And they are beautiful.
After getting back to COD4 whole MW2 looks like one big pile od nonsense.
:lol Here's one of the better booster destruction videos I've seen in a while... Miss Danielle finds out that somoene on her friends list is having a headshot session with a full lobby, joins up and destroys them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcibua-lPVE
Check out the little fucking kid talking some insane trash! :lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcibua-lPVE
Check out the little fucking kid talking some insane trash! :lol
Bullets can ricochet in all game modes - the info screen doesn't say that they bounce back. They bounce all over the place. I got killed by a ricochet in Demolition yesterday.grap3fruitman said:
PetriP-TNT
Member
Little shits like that is the reason I always mute everyone just in case (except in MW2 where they have an option to mute all the voice chat from options menu, thanks IW for that)aku:jiki said:
TheApatheticOne
Member
PetriP-TNT said:
:lol I as well. I know that rubs some GAFers wrong, but for every MW2 Player/GAFer that plays as a respectable human being that has even a slight interest of playing together, there are, by my calculations, 12,592 MW2 players who do nothing but scream racial slurs, sing rap songs, and scream-cuss-bitch.... AND have no interest but their K/D ratio, gametype be damned.
Lionheart1827
Member
I'm hoping in black ops they fix the lag issues. Its amazing playing mw2 and constantly being clearly past a a wall and still dying whereas in cod4 and waw that hardly ever happened. I switched to cod4 the other day and it was awesome being able to get to a wall for cover without getting shot while already passed it.
Don't really get the shotgun hate unless you're talking about the aa-12(camping noob weapon) or 1887s. The famas and m16 will easily give you a one burst kill and they are much longer range than any shotgun. If you're pissed that you're getting owned in CQ with assault weapons that's pretty much your own fault. There are way worse things than shotguns in this game that needs to be addressed.
Don't really get the shotgun hate unless you're talking about the aa-12(camping noob weapon) or 1887s. The famas and m16 will easily give you a one burst kill and they are much longer range than any shotgun. If you're pissed that you're getting owned in CQ with assault weapons that's pretty much your own fault. There are way worse things than shotguns in this game that needs to be addressed.
TheApatheticOne
Member
RefigeKru said:
The big thing for me is in COD4, when I die, and then respawn, I seem to always have time to move around, figure out how I want to go about things, etc. With MW2, I can literally die 5 times in 15 seconds and not one of those deaths is a death that I feel is my fault or anything that could have been avoided. And THATS whats frustrating to me about it. I can sit there, not cheese or camp, just solid play, for 8-2, 13-2, etc., and then you may as well have the monster truck guy's voice come on and go "HERE COMES THE DEATH BLENDER", and in like a minute, Ill go from 12-2, to something like 12-11.
In short, when I have a bad game in COD4, Ive always felt that was pretty much me getting outplayed. When I get it handed to me in MW2, I dont feel like that. AT ALL. Not to say Im never outplayed, because that would be a ridiculous statement, but there's a lot of games that are just pure, unfiltered bullshit.
Haha, yeah, people still do it... I've only played a few matches of HC since re-buying CoD4, but I got into one on Chinatown where I think I was with a full party and I was the only random who didn't have a mic on. Some dude was trying to do some really dirty camping in a dark corner, and I was just trying to move past him and all of a sudden he shoots me. I'm like WTF, but go about my business and get a few kills and eventually pass by his shitty corner again and the fucker shoots me again!cameltoe said:
So I make it my mission to ruin this kid's camping and kill him every chance I get, and like instantly after killing him once, he starts raging the fuck out into the mic! Yelling obscenities and calling me the asshole for killing him. What the hell, dude? Are you so stupid you don't even know that you started it? :lol
Do you play with a full party when you play CoD4? I don't and my experience is that, while I agree that it happens more in MW2, this crap happens in CoD4 too. Especially when my shitty team is busy doing 1080 noscopes off buildings instead of helping me cap a flag or whatever.TheApatheticOne said:
I know one thing for certain anyway, CoD4 is way worse at spawning you inside an airstrike - sometimes it even does it twice! - or right next to a recently-tossed grenade...
Pretty much in agreement here. Bad games in COD4 are more or less my fault (though I've always hated Jug). Bad games in MW2 can be attributed to [a] lag (the type where you watch the killcam and just shake your head) or Commando, Noob Tube DC OMA, Painkiller BS. And then there's WoW (it's been a nice change of pace). With WoW, sometimes it can be a bit laggy, but the most frustrating part is the MP40 dominance. God, I hate that gun.TheApatheticOne said:
Mr Sandman
Banned
mr_boo said:
WaW is much better in HC, damn MP40. In HC semi auto rifles/bolt are where it's at and that's awesome.
TheApatheticOne said:
Summed up my thoughts pretty well.
I don't know if it's just me either, but something about the visuals I don't find all that great either. No doubt it's better looking than COD4, but I swear there are times when I'm finding it hard to distinguish between objects/people on screen. Like it's all too visually cluttered and overwhelming, an example of this would probably be inside one of the buildings on Highrise and all of the Favela stage.
Also, when IW made this... Did they not suspect that people would find Danger Close/One Man Army + Grenade Launcher classes would pose a small problem?
Thanks..didn't know that. I typically just stick with non HC action. In regular TDM, I can hang with a rile/bolt action except in a handful of key maps (e.g., Dome, Asylum, Courtyard). For such maps, I go with any SMG other than the MP40...but I'm digressing.Mr Sandman said:
You can say that about a lot of games. Bottom line, the majority cases competitive games are not going to get it right the first time (and lengthy beta tests are costly). What's nice is that some developers will analyze trends and re-balance accordingly (not talking about glitch/exploit patching). Don't forget, I think OMA was patched too - but it didn't address the core issues...this implies that OMA Noob Tube DC, whether first conceived or not, is what the developers still had in mind.RefigeKru said:
I just got the Duty of Honor, err, Medal of Honor beta just now and it's surprisingly pretty cool - I didn't like BFBC2 at all. It's really frustrating to try to learn though, it plays like HC in CoD. You die really fast, it's very hard to see people (on an SD TV anyway) and there are no killcams. Oh, and no weapon in the game has ANY recoil - I mean, we say the weapons in MW2 don't have any but the ones in MoH really don't.
I did manage to reach a 5 killstreak by camping like a bastard with my M21 though. :lol At 3, I think I got the option to either get a UAV or a rocket strike (I could press d-pad left for rockets or right for "intel"). I chose the strike and missed badly. I'm not entirely sure I got the 5th kill (I got a +10 on my screen but it didn't say "ENEMY KILL!" or anything), so I dunno what the streak setup is... I know you can get more because I was hit by a missile strike of some kind.
I think IW's problem, honestly, is naivite. They seem to think that everyone's just gonna go ahead and play fair and nice. For example, they always put massive auto-aim on the first sniper rifle you get (both in CoD4 and MW2), because they think pro snipers will use a later unlock and only the newbies will use the first one. Yeah...not really, IW!
I did manage to reach a 5 killstreak by camping like a bastard with my M21 though. :lol At 3, I think I got the option to either get a UAV or a rocket strike (I could press d-pad left for rockets or right for "intel"). I chose the strike and missed badly. I'm not entirely sure I got the 5th kill (I got a +10 on my screen but it didn't say "ENEMY KILL!" or anything), so I dunno what the streak setup is... I know you can get more because I was hit by a missile strike of some kind.
It wasn't, there's a shitty tweak in the next patch that's about to come out. They're trying to combat OMA-tubing but their solution just blows (it's gonna take longer to switch kit every time you do it after the patch). Bowling has mentioned it several times on his twitter.mr_boo said:
I think IW's problem, honestly, is naivite. They seem to think that everyone's just gonna go ahead and play fair and nice. For example, they always put massive auto-aim on the first sniper rifle you get (both in CoD4 and MW2), because they think pro snipers will use a later unlock and only the newbies will use the first one. Yeah...not really, IW!
In MOH the streaks are awarded for the points you earn, not just kills alone, so you can get a streak reward from just getting assists or capping objectives, or you can get a streak reward faster than other people if you are good at getting headshots, saviour/avenger kills etc.aku:jiki said:
grap3fruitman
Banned
I've played with the shield a fair amount and never once even gotten a hit marker with a bounced bullet. While spectating in Search I've seen one guy sitting in a corner with the shield and being shot at over and over with a shotgun at point blank and not a single bullet reflected, once the guy got bored of teasing the shield wielding fellow he just took a few steps to the side and shot next to him and killed him. Needless to say, I don't believe you. Are there any shield bounce-back kill montages? =Paku:jiki said:Bullets can ricochet in all game modes - the info screen doesn't say that they bounce back. They bounce all over the place. I got killed by a ricochet in Demolition yesterday.
Was in Target the other day and noticed new packaging for the PS3 version of the game:
PetriP-TNT
Member
OMG, I just survived being stuck with semtex o___0
In other news today: Intervention is still broken and overpowered as hell with bullets that glue to it's targets through walls. More news at 10
In other news today: Intervention is still broken and overpowered as hell with bullets that glue to it's targets through walls. More news at 10
tsurugi no mai
Member
The TMP should have been a sub-machine gun. It's amazing.
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
Just started out a match of TDM 16-0 and the fucking game ended because the server timed out or some shit. Why does that shit only happen when I'm going well? It never happens when I'm 8-8.
That one's bothering me too! It's been ages since I saw an update on my progress - I stole a care package and got "Hijacker! II: 50 crates stolen" or whatever on my screen. That was seriously back in early may or something...Mojo said:
Speaking of secret challenge emblems, I noticed yesterday that there is indeed a slot for the spinning skull emblem (wedged between the CoD4 prestige emblems and the MW2 ones). Has anybody confirmed how to get it? I know the old info is that it's to complete all other challenges, but I've never seen that fully confirmed...
Critical Jeff
Banned
Xux said:
But the tmp's clip is SOOO tiny. It really gets hairy in situations where you have to gun down more than one enemy.
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