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[SlimySnake]

Looks like it can run on an HDD. loading is maybe 2 seconds longer in the portal scenes but hardly unplayable. no idea wtf was happening with Richard's machine.



The loading is likely CPU bound so higher end CPUs get you through the portals faster.

 

[Crispy Gamer]

Looks like it can run on an HDD. loading is maybe 2 seconds longer in the portal scenes but hardly unplayable. no idea wtf was happening with Richard's machine.



The loading is likely CPU bound so higher end CPUs get you through the portals faster.

He also has 64GB of ram I want to see an actual PS5 spec equivalent with a HDD test hopefully DF can do that I have no clue why it wasn't in today's video. Also we should point out over and over that Insomniac never mentioned PC it was always in reference to previous console generations.

 

[Dice]

So this is a good moment to ask: I'm getting an SSD for Starfield and games like this. Should I also move Windows to it?

If it won't really affect performance of the games, I would rather not have to undertake that large ordeal and save the space for more games. But if for some reason Windows needs to be on the SSD to interact with the game for the game to run optimally then I'll do it.

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

So what I’m gathering from this thread is if I cobble together a rudimentary pc from old pieces of hardware from various old consoles and desktop builds I have, this game won’t run as well as it does on my PS5? Impressive

 

[SlimySnake]

So this is a good moment to ask: I'm getting an SSD for Starfield and games like this. Should I also move Windows to it?

If it won't really affect performance of the games, I would rather not have to undertake that large ordeal and save the space for more games. But if for some reason Windows needs to be on the SSD to interact with the game for the game to run optimally then I'll do it.

Of course. Windows on nvme ssds loads in a second. Its amazing.

I’ve moved windows installs from hdd to ssd before. It is not really that bad. Just look up some videos on YouTube. The hardest thing will be to go into the bios to change the boot order to ssd. Windows installer takes care of everything else.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

Playing on RTX 3090, everything maxed. 4k/60fps. This game is soliiiiid.

 

[PonyStation4]

So this is a good moment to ask: I'm getting an SSD for Starfield and games like this. Should I also move Windows to it?

If it won't really affect performance of the games, I would rather not have to undertake that large ordeal and save the space for more games. But if for some reason Windows needs to be on the SSD to interact with the game for the game to run optimally then I'll do it.

News came out last year that Microsoft was telling OEMs to drop all HDD support for Windows by the end of 2023.

Even ignoring that, an HDD is a huge bottleneck for Windows performance. You should be running it off an NVMe drive if your motherboard supports it

 

[DForce]

Testing 4090 with a HDD

Time stamped.

 

[IFireflyl]

not to intrude, but he literally says 15 seconds after your timestamp that "it wouldn't have been possible without the solid state drive of the ps5"

I think context is needed, though. Right before that he says, "This is something we never could have done on previous generations." This would imply that the SSD of the PS5 isn't magical when compared to SSDs that are available on PC. It means it is awesome when comparing it to previous PlayStation storage options. More specifically, they would be comparing it to the stock drive of the PlayStation 4.

 

[Raonak]

PS5 is indeed the beast

 

[Gamerguy84]

So this is a good moment to ask: I'm getting an SSD for Starfield and games like this. Should I also move Windows to it?

If it won't really affect performance of the games, I would rather not have to undertake that large ordeal and save the space for more games. But if for some reason Windows needs to be on the SSD to interact with the game for the game to run optimally then I'll do it.

Absolutely yes. You'll laugh the first time you boot Windows how fast it is along with updates. I've used SSD and NVMe drives exclusively for a few years and would never go back.

Windows doesn't take uo a lot of space, if you need to add another just do that but go with a larger size from the start. Windows takes up 20, just don't use a 500. 2TB is a nice size. Everything you load is fast.

 

[Snake29]

It's not my lack of understanding that's the issue, it's the lack of any amazing game revolution from the SSDs. We are half way through the generation, and there not one game either released, or announced that is revolutionary like we were told they would be.
Don't worry, I'm glad to have an SSD, as I hate loading times, but the amount of hyperbole that some clowns were running with, is yes, well and truly crushed.
I guess you might have been one of those people who went full retard about the power of the SSD?

Just ignore this dude please…

But heey….go play your fucking Starfield from HDD please and enjoy! I remember it doesn’t even support Direct Storage, a freaking MS game. MS itself is completely bad at supporting the latest tech in their games.

I hope you have spent a shitton of money on hardware, while seeing the PS5 still outperform every machine. You must have been crying while you were typing your comment.

 

[In Cold Blood]

Just ignore this dude please…

But heey….go play your fucking Starfield from HDD please and enjoy! I remember it doesn’t even support Direct Storage, a freaking MS game. MS itself is completely bad at supporting the latest tech in their games.

English must be your second language, because you didn't read what I wrote did you? I said the move to SSDs was right. I don't want to go back to HDD loading times. For some reason you decide to bringing up Starfield, and trying to put that down because it doesn't support direct storage, why I have no idea because it has nothing to do with this topic.

For the record.
SSDs are better than HDD
Both consoles were right to move to them.
I'm glad they have SSDs.
R&C can be done on a HDD, because it is.
Insomniac were using spin to promote the PS5.
Fanboys ran with his comments as proof the PS5 SSD was superior.

At that same time they were also talking shit like the SSD would make PS5 games superior by being able to load higher quality textures than the Xbox could. That is the bullshit that has been shown up as FUD.

Both Sony and MS claimed that along with faster loading it would revolutionise gaming. A rift isn't revolutionary. Flying in Horizon isn't revolutionary. What Forza MS is doing isn't revolutionary. Nothing has been revolutionary yet. Revolutionary would be going from 2D sprites to 3D polygons. VR is revolutionary.
You can actually say that the SSD benefits were overstated and not be losing any console war points.
Both companies made big claims, and both companies have yet to show them.

 

[genesisblock]

The second fastest SSD in the market which isn't even expensive is like 40% faster than ps5 SSD. The fastest is almost 300% faster, what are you talking about? Ps5 SSD alone isn't even too fast, people actually get off the shelf SSD to put it in the console

What on earth are you talking about, mate? I'm comparing SSD to DirectStorage implementation.

 

[rofif]

There are numerous videos and screenshots in this thread that show no texture issues at all. NXG also doesn't have anything close to top end hardware either. His best Nvidia GPU is a near 5 year old 2070 coupled to a processor that is worse then the one in the PS5.

And that’s the deal of pc gaming. Sometimes you can have good gear but have an issue others don’t have. There are ton of factors.
I still would t say it’s user fault. And Alex has the latest drivers.

 

[peish]

Looks like it can run on an HDD. loading is maybe 2 seconds longer in the portal scenes but hardly unplayable. no idea wtf was happening with Richard's machine.



The loading is likely CPU bound so higher end CPUs get you through the portals faster.

have not played this game
but the ssd magic sauce looks like overselling it
the portal bits are loading cut scenes, you cannot have control when to stop portalling

 

[sendit]

So this is a good moment to ask: I'm getting an SSD for Starfield and games like this. Should I also move Windows to it?

If it won't really affect performance of the games, I would rather not have to undertake that large ordeal and save the space for more games. But if for some reason Windows needs to be on the SSD to interact with the game for the game to run optimally then I'll do it.

I'm going to assume if you don't already have a SSD in 2023, your GPU and CPU probably aren't equiped to play Starfield.

 

[twilo99]

So this is a good moment to ask: I'm getting an SSD for Starfield and games like this. Should I also move Windows to it?

If it won't really affect performance of the games, I would rather not have to undertake that large ordeal and save the space for more games. But if for some reason Windows needs to be on the SSD to interact with the game for the game to run optimally then I'll do it.

You should absolutely have Windows run on SSD. The games don’t have to be on the same drive to take advantage of direct storage, but we don’t even know if Starfield supports it anyway.

 

[Tommi84]

Much worse if you zoom in

And this is a performance rt mode so not even the best quality textures for PS5

 

[twilo99]

have not played this game
but the ssd magic sauce looks like overselling it
the portal bits are loading cut scenes, you cannot have control when to stop portalling

Hm, never thought of it that way

 

[sinnergy]

At about 7200rpm.

But can it run excellent on raid stripping mode mechanical HDDS there is hope for team mechanical !

 

[SmokSmog]

No problem with textures on my 3080
4K DLSSQ Max settings without RT.

Meanwhile digitalClowns

 

[Panajev2001a]

But can it run excellent on raid stripping mode mechanical HDDS there is hope for team mechanical !

It is very much a battle of strawman. The claim no developer is contesting when comparing consoles (XSX and PS5) and PC’s is how on the closed platform it has been possible for developers to get $399-499 machines launched 3 years ago to take advantage of standardised features in that ecosystem that allows them to reduce barriers from creating games with more unique detail, short to no loading times, and doing so without lengthening the development times a ton. All without having 32+ GB of RAM or other more expensive band aids.

Feedback from users is games on XSX (including the BC ones) and PS5 have much shorter loading times (on PS5 often their tech leads to smaller downloads/installs too) and some games are bringing us back to the era of cartridge like loading times (despite the increase of resources the games now need to populate the world). Feedback from developers is that it is easy to use the new I/O solution (at least at a base level) and get a lot of the promised benefits (which include less overhead on the CPU and GPU that do not need to help with decompression and file I/O as much) without a lot of pain.

So yes, the magic MS and Sony did with their I/O tech shows, considering the game Vs. comparisons we have seen over the years, I do not think Sony’s decision to invest in the more sophisticated I/O complex was bad (extension wise it was definitely more consumer friendly).

 

[Fess]

All the hype went poof for me, no reason to get this when all upgrades comes with some downgrades. I’m sure it’s cool to have the screen refresh as the performance bottle neck with a 4090 but the blocky RT shadows on grass that DF showed made it look worse.

 

[sendit]

At that same time they were also talking shit like the SSD would make PS5 games superior by being able to load higher quality textures than the Xbox could. That is the bullshit that has been shown up as FUD.

Hey smart guy. Asset variety != Textures

 

[Stooky]

have not played this game
but the ssd magic sauce looks like overselling it
the portal bits are loading cut scenes, you cannot have control when to stop portalling

uhhh i’m going to pretend you didn’t post that. some advice, you should play the game first.

 

[Snake29]

English must be your second language, because you didn't read what I wrote did you? I said the move to SSDs was right. I don't want to go back to HDD loading times. For some reason you decide to bringing up Starfield, and trying to put that down because it doesn't support direct storage, why I have no idea because it has nothing to do with this topic.

For the record.
SSDs are better than HDD
Both consoles were right to move to them.
I'm glad they have SSDs.
R&C can be done on a HDD, because it is.
Insomniac were using spin to promote the PS5.
Fanboys ran with his comments as proof the PS5 SSD was superior.

At that same time they were also talking shit like the SSD would make PS5 games superior by being able to load higher quality textures than the Xbox could. That is the bullshit that has been shown up as FUD.

Both Sony and MS claimed that along with faster loading it would revolutionise gaming. A rift isn't revolutionary. Flying in Horizon isn't revolutionary. What Forza MS is doing isn't revolutionary. Nothing has been revolutionary yet. Revolutionary would be going from 2D sprites to 3D polygons. VR is revolutionary.
You can actually say that the SSD benefits were overstated and not be losing any console war points.
Both companies made big claims, and both companies have yet to show them.

You should start remember that a launch game like R&C was in development long before these console were released. This game was developed on earlier hardware, heck even on prototype PS5 hardware. Insomniac stated themselves that they didn’t even scratched the surface with R&C and the PS5 SSD I/O capabilities. It wasn’t using the maximum performance.

Their video was very clear and if you still have trouble to understand that after 3 years, than you are a complete retard. I was reading your post. You should put back that HDD just because of the stupid things you said.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Testing 4090 with a HDD

Time stamped.

Takes ages on the first portal and lots of stuttering.

 

[Kenpachii]

While everybody is bitching about HDD's and I/O / Directstorage.

The real question was, if a sata SSD with Directstorage could run this smoothly. Any footage of that. Because at the end of the day, consoles users paid a premium for SSD tech that for many people was overkill and not needed.

We all know nvme drives are kinda unused on PC since forever so does this game validate the usage of nvme drives or still not.

 

[ergem]

PS5 is indeed the beast

It eats monster for breakfast.

 

[DenchDeckard]

While everybody is bitching about HDD's and I/O / Directstorage.

The real question was, if a sata SSD with Directstorage could run this smoothly. Any footage of that. Because at the end of the day, consoles users paid a premium for SSD tech that for many people was overkill and not needed.

We all know nvme drives are kinda unused on PC since forever so does this game validate the usage of nvme drives or still not.

Good question. Needs testing with a sata SSD for science!

 

[ToTTenTranz]

The major point being missed here is all these guys running the game on a HDD + RTX 4090 also have >32GB RAM, meaning the game can cache lots of stuff to the RAM and VRAM during gameplay which hides the low I/O speeds.


But the thing is... who the fuck has 48, 64 or more GB of RAM, a graphics card with 24GB VRAM but then plays games on a HDD?
It's not a reallistic situation at all. The people gaming on HDDs are going to be using super low budget systems, graphics cards with 4GB, and system RAM at 16GB tops. And on those the HDD is going to completely break the gameplay with terrible stuttering and loading times everywhere because there's not enough volatile memory to cache into.



Also, the stupidest thing I read here was the claim that playing on a HDD was made possible thanks to DirectStorage.
DirectStorage only exists because the I/O got so much faster with NVMe storage. If we were still stuck on a 10-100MB/s I/O with terrible access times we wouldn't need to optimize data transfers in windows and find ways to do massive parallel decompression on GPUs. A single low end CPU core is enough to take an average 40MB/s data stream and do a 2:1 decompression to 80MB/s.
These people mistook Nixxes' excellent automatic resource allocation system with DirectStorage.

 

[mrmeh]

Any recent game run on a laptop hard disk is unplayable to me due to the loading now anyway, so the pages of HDD arguments are dumb.

Blue Kids: PS5 SSD is Magic, my box is better than your box.
Green Kids: Pff could run that off a HDD.

Result: Kids are dickheads. No one in their right mind would run that on a HDD. Also PS5 SSD is not magic.

Disappointed with the bugs but ill wait till its under £30 before ill buy it and they should be fixed by then.

 

[Zathalus]

"Intel and AMD also have plugins for GPU decompression through DirectX and DirectStorage, but it's unclear whether they're compatible with Vulkan, which RTX IO fully supports. If not, then GPU decompression for Vulkan titles could be exclusive to RTX GPUs in the short term."

That's also why there's no RT on AMD cards.

Nothing you quoted has got anything to do with rendering RT. Besides the texture thing is a bug, so can't blame DirectStorage for that one.

 

[BootsLoader]

Of course it will load with a simple HDD when the ram is 64GB. Try with 8 or 12GB. Then we will talk.

 

[Gaiff]

While everybody is bitching about HDD's and I/O / Directstorage.

The real question was, if a sata SSD with Directstorage could run this smoothly. Any footage of that. Because at the end of the day, consoles users paid a premium for SSD tech that for many people was overkill and not needed.

We all know nvme drives are kinda unused on PC since forever so does this game validate the usage of nvme drives or still not.

What "premium" did they pay? The console is $500 USD. Those who paid a premium are the poor fucks on PC for these shitty Lovelace/RDNA 3 cards.

 

[mansoor1980]

And this is a performance rt mode so not even the best quality textures for PS5

texture quality is same across all modes

 

[Kakax11]

DLAA is sharp

 

[Three]

The real question was, if a sata SSD with Directstorage could run this smoothly. Any footage of that. Because at the end of the day, consoles users paid a premium for SSD tech that for many people was overkill and not needed.

We all know nvme drives are kinda unused on PC since forever so does this game validate the usage of nvme drives or still not.

Wait, did we?

All I remember is how many people concern trolled that at the time 7000Gb/s drives on PC are super expensive so PS5 is going to be expensive or spontaneously combust from heat, and that proprietary drives are better. Of course all of it was bullshit. Who paid a premium exactly?

Also DirectStorage isn't free as GPU decompression to lower throughput requirements requires compute. Meaning faster SSD speeds actually does improve GPU performance by lowering GPU usage for decompression. And If the GPU driver doesnt have the built in metacommand or a DirectCompute fallback that burden falls on the CPU instead to decompress. It's all just a bunch of tradeoffs you can make for a given hardware but bigger or faster hardware has always been better. I'm not sure why people try so hard to find some negative in faster hardware and defend ancient tech like mechanical HDD (not you personally), it's just baffling.

 

[Physiognomonics]

This is what the game looks like on our PC system with an RTX 4090. It's basically identical to the PS5 version. I don't know why the game wasn't loading the textures on Alex's PC.

It's just that some textures need seconds to be loaded according to NXGamer (like in Spider-man). DF saying textures are never loaded is a suspicious claim as apparently people here eventually see the higher resolution textures. Better for DF to say it's a bug rather than a slower streaming capability on PC. It's not the first time they blame some bug instead of hardware limitation.

 

[Kenpachii]

Wait, did we?

All I remember is how many people concern trolled that at the time 7000Gb/s drives on PC are super expensive so PS5 is going to be expensive or spontaneously combust from heat, and that proprietary drives are better. Of course all of it was bullshit. Who paid a premium exactly?

Also DirectStorage isn't free as GPU decompression to lower throughput requirements requires compute. Meaning faster SSD speeds actually does improve GPU performance by lowering GPU usage for decompression. And If the GPU driver doesnt have the built in metacommand or a DirectCompute fallback that burden falls on the CPU instead to decompress. It's all just a bunch of tradeoffs you can make for a given hardware but bigger or faster hardware has always been better. I'm not sure why people try so hard to find some negative in faster hardware and defend ancient tech like mechanical HDD (not you personally), it's just baffling.

Who cares about compression how much it hits your cpu and gpu when u stare at a loading screen, this has never mattered.

And yes console users paid a premium for a faster drive that yet have to proof to be useful on PC which already had it for a long time.
hdd > sata ssd is a massive increase everybody knows this, while ssd>nvme was barely noticed for pc users even while nvme was already for a long time on the market.

From what i saw some user post is that the game never peaks above the ~550mb/s, as sata ssd's are 600mb/s its going to be interesting to see how much of a gain nvme drives actually made over nvme drives and if the consoles where not better to go with a cheap ssd that way and for more larger storage or simple a reduce in price, because those 5,5gbps chips are probably not cheap.

While people here focus a lot on if it runs on a HDD, the real question should be, would a cheap slow nvme or sata SSD run this game without problems.

 

[Zathalus]

It's just that some textures need seconds to be loaded according to NXGamer (like in Spider-man). DF saying textures are never loaded is a suspicious claim as apparently people here eventually see the higher resolution textures. Better for DF to say it's a bug rather than a slower streaming capability on PC. It's not the first time they blame some bug instead of hardware limitation.

It's obviously a bug. The video is right there, the texture simply never loads. Other videos and screenshots in this thread show it loading perfectly fine, no delay of any sort. Random behaviour like that is a sign of a bug.

 

[rofif]

Portable video gaming device ladies and gentlemen. Same category as the Nintendo DS and Game Boy. Amazing times we live in!

I know I am an asshole but playing this with lowest possible settings, 720p with fsr2… and stuttery 32fps.
Idk man…
How is the input lag? Looks kinda delayed in the vid

 

[LiquidMetal14]

This will be remembered as a paradigm shift "catalyst" in terms of ports.

We are seeing the software tech finally be able to flex in the way we've expected since the PS5 came out.

Smooth and fast performance and stunning graphics. 1/2 second load times and high level assets.

This is a really important release on the technical end.

 

[Three]

Who cares about compression how much it hits your cpu and gpu when u stare at a loading screen, this has never mattered.

The point is that you aren't staring at a loading screen as is the whole point with Rift Apart. It's meant to be instantaneous and seamless.

And yes console users paid a premium for a faster drive that yet have to proof to be useful on PC which already had it for a long time.
hdd > sata ssd is a massive increase everybody knows this, while ssd>nvme was barely noticed for pc users even while nvme was already for a long time on the market.

From what i saw some user post is that the game never peaks above the ~550mb/s, as sata ssd's are 600mb/s its going to be interesting to see how much of a gain nvme drives actually made over nvme drives and if the consoles where not better to go with a cheap ssd that way and for more larger storage or simple a reduce in price, because those 5,5gbps chips are probably not cheap.

While people here focus a lot on if it runs on a HDD, the real question should be, would a cheap slow nvme or sata SSD run this game without problems.

I think a good thing to do is to build a PS5 spec PC then do benchmarks. Those freed up resources not dealing with decompression would be beneficial. The fact that barely any games on PC even use directstorage or not every ounce of performance on PC has nothing to do with fast 'nvme' SSD being pointless for the consoles and console users certainly didn't pay much of a premium for it.

 

[Superayate]

Don't Know if already shared and if it's a reliable source, but could be interesting :

 

[yamaci17]

I know I am an asshole but playing this with lowest possible settings, 720p with fsr2… and stuttery 32fps.
Idk man…
How is the input lag? Looks kinda delayed in the vid

people are just having fun thats what matters above all

 

[DenchDeckard]

I know I am an asshole but playing this with lowest possible settings, 720p with fsr2… and stuttery 32fps.
Idk man…
How is the input lag? Looks kinda delayed in the vid

If it was on a PSP 2 or Vita 2 it would deffo be locked to 30FPS and a similar resolution. The fact that people can play like this and lock to 30FPS is amazing. Rog ALLY can probs hit 45-60 FPS with tweaks.

 

[SomeGit]

I know I am an asshole but playing this with lowest possible settings, 720p with fsr2… and stuttery 32fps.
Idk man…
How is the input lag? Looks kinda delayed in the vid

The FPS is only 32 because he set the Upscaling target to 30 fps, so it will change FSR quality on the fly to target that.
The best settings I've found is Low settings, with quality IGTI, you'll get a solid 40FPS most of the time and if there's input lag I'm not feeling it.

For the size of the screen it still looks fantastic, even at those settings/resolution.

 

[JerryinSoCal]

Looks like it can run on an HDD. loading is maybe 2 seconds longer in the portal scenes but hardly unplayable. no idea wtf was happening with Richard's machine.



The loading is likely CPU bound so higher end CPUs get you through the portals faster.

Did you mean 2 seconds longer than PS5? it's more like 4-5 seconds longer. The character doesn't sit there and wait that long before going through the portal in the PS5 version and the time in the portal is much shorter.