64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
if it aint bloodborne it isnt doing numbers. simple as
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Can Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart on PC match - and exceed - the PS5 experience?
- Thread starter RagnarokIV
- Start date
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Sony is likely testing the waters to gauge interest. Games like Horizon, GOW, and TLOU have a lot of potential on PC. Games like R&C and Sackboy, much less so. Either GOT or Demon's Souls will do great numbers. Bloodborne has the potential to break 100K concurrent players with its reputation alone but I don't think it's ever coming.
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Tomi
Member
Wait, you comparing 2 year old game with game released 2 days ago?
You need to understand that this is only bonus for Sony, this port alrdy returned investment , and it will bring clean couple of million $ for Sony
And yes, Sony game have legs on pc, so dont worry...
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Remnant 2 has a much wider appeal, Ratchet is a very niche game that did quite poorly even on PS5 when compared to other Sony exclusives. I'm still surprised Sony even bothered porting it.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
And I'm sure you have the data to back it up?
TxKnight7
Member
Was ray tracing , path tracing even available on consoles before PC?
Nvidia game works
Hair works
PhysX
SSD 4K 120fps
DLSS etc All this was on PC before any consoles.
star citizen requires ssd to travel fast from planet to planet in real-time without loading
and the game is open world.
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mansoor1980
Member
did i downplay PC hardware contribution to console tech?
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OverHeat
« generous god »
twilo99
Member
No but isn’t that the general consensus?
Otherwise I really think they could’ve given this game to PS4 owners if they wanted to instead of saying it can only run on the PS5
Rubim
Member
mansoor1980
Member
nomansoor1980 you Believe in unicorn?
ChiefDada
Gold Member
This has been analyzed and confirmed by DF already with the artificially capped SSD bandwidth, and referenced many times throughout this forum. Will willfully ignorant people take this into consideration now (sorry, but yes Alex Battaglia is a member of that bunch)? Hopefully some will for the sake of having more fruitful discourse, but I won't hold my breath.
Rubim
Member
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
But Spiderman is a cross gen game (and looks it) whilst Ratchet is a PS5 only game.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
What's not the case?
Exactly. SSD bandwidth isn't the bottleneck as DF already confirmed a while ago. It is the other factors of the i/o hardware/software stack that is not translating on PC. Why these newfound results are a shock to Alex is beyond me.
Actually, no. He's just stubborn.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
The general consensus from who? The engineers at Gaf?
Except this doesn't even address the question at all?
Proposition number 1: The issue is the code.
Proposition number 2: The issue is the I/O.
Neither DF nor those who claim the second proposition can prove what they say. They both assume things based on what they observe but nobody can provide data to support their stances.
Edit: And lol coming from you calling people stubborn. The dude who's chased out and humiliated from every PC game thread after his claims get debunked by a few patches. You're really shameless.
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Rubim
Member
How do you know the issue on PC is due to Io?
Are you telling me, there's a hard limit on direct storage that only benefits gen3?
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Yes, they did because they already tested Gen 4 SSD capped to Gen 3 like speed in the PS5 last year and the game ran the same. Idiots (sorry, I'm done being cordial) subsequently tried to downplay PS5 hardware and called Sony liars by saying that a lower spec'd SSD was proven to be able to run Rift Apart just as well, not understanding that the PS5 i/o was still in effect and, ironically, actually proved Mark Cerny's point. DF's earlier test proved that SSD speed quickly becomes moot, which means any performance degradation using appropriately spec'd SSD is a bottleneck elsewhere in i/o hardware or code. Last year's video contains that data which supports this.
mansoor1980
Member
Rubim
Member
Yes on PS5.
What exactly does this has to do with PC?
Let me repeat: Are you implying that there's a hard limit that we reached in a tech only available to one game?
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Which is exactly what Alex claimed. He said the issue is with the code. The other poster said he is wrong and that the issue is with the i/o and here you are admitting that the bottleneck may lie with the code.
Yes,the issue is it would run like a slide show. Only thing Nvidia did was speedup how fast ray tracing could be done in real time.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
This is the post you responded to and it appeared to me you were questioning/seeking data for the bolded. If not, then disregard all of my subsequent comments.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
No, I was looking for data disproving Alex's claim of the code being the issue. Alex very clearly states that the SSD speed isn't with the issue. Poster quotes him and subsequently says that DF is missing the point.
Edit: And why the fuck do you talk to me like I was part of the "hur hur, Cerny is a liar" crowd?
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Rubim
Member
How do you know that?
People have pointed out, how the fuck do you know its an IO Issue and not a bug on the code?
You are ether the more Enlighted user here seeing data we can't see, or you're ONE of the most dumb ones. So what is it?
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Zathalus
Member
PS5 and PC have the exact same issue, the difference between a 3.5Gbps drive and a far faster on has zero impact on loading speed in Ratchet and Clank. As the only commonality between the PS5 and PC in this case is the actual game then logically the bottleneck is likely something in the game code itself. Could be something simple as the game is hardcoded to not load any faster or something else.
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
Christ...
OverHeat
« generous god »
That’s the face that alex battaglia make when he say he has a max out PC when in reality he doesn’t
RoadHazard
Gold Member
I mean, R&C was released when the PS5 was in very limited supply. Did DeS do a lot better?
RoboFu
One of the green rats
do a clean reboot before playing. . the one thing you dont have to account for on PS5 is a ton of background shit running sucking up your bandwidth.
I only have 16 gig of system ram and I have no hitches or stutters or anything. though I ONLY game on my gaming pc.
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Feelings over facts I see...
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Ratchet was never a top seller, it always did around 2 million as a franchise.
Well said years ago .. visuals aren’t rendered on a hdd or Ssd. But power of marketing I guess.
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ChiefDada
Gold Member
Ok so after re-watching the specific section of the video, we're back to square one lol. Alex is "disappointed" (his words) that even at PS5 like settings, his superior PC hardware with 4090/12900/7gb+ SSD can't match PS5 speeds during the portal traversal sequence. He's basically saying I have a faster CPU, GPU, and SSD; I should be able to match or beat PS5 I/O", and continues to ignore the deep systems integration of the console, especially when discussing the memory subsystem. So yeah, I stand by my previous statements.
I never said you were and based on your past conduct/posts I don't think you are, even though we've had tense, but mostly respectful disagreements in the past. I was referring to the discourse that occurred during the time of the DF video I referenced.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
They supposedly can't even wrap their heads around TFs not being the end all be all metric. Lots of misinformation/misdirection and PR talking points come out of that outfit.
I rest my case.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Nobody on PC was asking for this game. Maybe it was just easy because Nixxes was already working with Insomniac but this had flop written all over it from day 1.
Bloodborne, Demon Souls, and to a lesser degree Ghost of Sushi will all be very popular on PC. Instead they port fuckin Saccboy and this.
And again of course, the amount of RAM is just being glossed over.
Interesting.
Its also hilarious still seeing ppl in denial.
Its ok to be wrong. Learning from your mistakes makes you a better person.
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Rubim
Member
Why do you continue to ignore the pc deep systems integration of direct storage?
RoboFu
One of the green rats
I have 16 gigs of ram and I have no issues. Ram doesnt matter here for that loading. Ram wouldnt make V-sync a difference. The gpu being more free with V-sync on is probably the more important difference. Its all bandwith.
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
"Piss in the wind". Which explains why it runs exactly the same on a HDD...
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ChiefDada
Gold Member
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
I don't think that's exactly his point. Based on available data, the game doesn't even come close to taxing the entire I/O subsystem+SSD on the PS5 or on the PC. If the game maxed out both and the PS5 had a higher theoretical max, then you'd be correct. But if say the PS5 maxes out at 20GB/s and the PC at 10 but that the game on the PS5 runs at 2GB/s and 1.5GB/s on the PC, you have to wonder why. After all, neither is anywhere near the theoretical max so they should be hitting the same speed. Severe bottlenecks that separate them should only come into play when both are near capacity which is why he claims it's the code but again, how can he prove this? That's an assumption, a logical one but an assumption nonetheless, without any data to support him.
There clearly is a bottleneck elsewhere on the PC but what is it? A line of code that needs an additional number and we're good? Or is it completely unrelated and there is a stall somewhere else in the pipeline that cannot be easily resolved?
I take issue with DF just as much as I do with Gaffers when they make an unsubstantiated claim hence why I said no one can really prove it and as you duly noted, it could be hardware, software, or something else.
Rubim
Member
We're all on assumptions here, but only two sides: Alex and the enlighted dude gets a conclusion.
One is baffled that the other reached a conclusion without data, but forgot that he actually did samething.
We have some theories, but that's about it. I don't know if this game will ever be patched on. It seems to be a commercial flop.
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Piss in the wind is reference to SSD being overhyped for this game. All the hype Insomniac created around SSD for this game is as useful as a piss in the wind. I didn't mean the SSD itself is as useful as a piss in the wind, the mistaken interpretation that probably got that reaction from you.
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mansoor1980
Member
the dedicated decompression hardware in the ps5 i/o is the main factor imo
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
The SSD in the PS5 allowed it to launch as intended. The PS4's storage wouldn't have.
On the PC side of things, the tech to get it to even attempt a 1:1 experience wasn't available to the masses in 2020. Therefore, Insomniac was right.
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