A liberal upswing in the polls to someone like Stephen Harper is like flashing red to a bull.
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Canada Poligaf - The Wrath of Harperland
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A liberal upswing in the polls to someone like Stephen Harper is like flashing red to a bull.
Slurpy2k20
Member
SHUT UP SHUT UP YOURE EITHER WITH US OR AGAINST US TERRORIST SYMPATHIZER NO JUSTIFICATION FOR TERROR OR MURDER
etc.
I look forward to Harper losing his cool to Trudeau in the future, and making further attacks that will backfire. So far so good. The stripping ads were epic fails.
killer rin
Member
Its going to be funny to watch when/if Harper single handedly destroys the Conservative Party's image in his vendetta against Justin
BladeWorker
Member
It's an easy response for Harper to make. Conservatives traditionally "score points" on the crime portfolio, and responses like that are precisely the reason: they're simple, they're targeted at the offender, and nobody can ever accuse him of "blaming the victim" - even if Trudeau's statement did nothing of the sort.
It also speaks to just how angry and reactionary we've all become, as a mass public. That need to not just find, but hunt down; not just punish, but obliterate from the face of the earth all things we consider to be "wrong". It has become a bit of a monster with the help of the rapid-fire, going-viral nature of social media and the internet, where broad opinion is less interested in the hows and whys, and more interested in playing angry pitbull.
The statement also fits into his narrative that Justin's in over his head. By playing "big daddy" and indicating that there are no equivocations or excuses for this kind of behaviour, he gets to play the role of the person who's been here before and portends to understand the situation, compared to Trudeau's more academic perspective that is rooted in progressive philosophy.
It also speaks to just how angry and reactionary we've all become, as a mass public. That need to not just find, but hunt down; not just punish, but obliterate from the face of the earth all things we consider to be "wrong". It has become a bit of a monster with the help of the rapid-fire, going-viral nature of social media and the internet, where broad opinion is less interested in the hows and whys, and more interested in playing angry pitbull.
The statement also fits into his narrative that Justin's in over his head. By playing "big daddy" and indicating that there are no equivocations or excuses for this kind of behaviour, he gets to play the role of the person who's been here before and portends to understand the situation, compared to Trudeau's more academic perspective that is rooted in progressive philosophy.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
killer rin
Member
...Holy crap. I just found and watched both the Interview with Justin then Harpers question period video and wow is Harper looking petty. How the fuck is this man governing our country? That was petty and childish, plain and simple.
If anyone else is looking for it
If anyone else is looking for it
Harper and the Conservatives have the advantage of being flush with money so they can run constant attack ads even years before an election. Through this, they can build a negative image of the Liberal leader in the public psyche over the course of years before the Liberals ever get a chance to get in a word.
This tactic may work on Trudeau as well unless he comes up with some high publicity ways to deflect the attacks. The Liberals don't have as much money as the Conservatives so they can't afford to run constant attack ads in response.
This tactic may work on Trudeau as well unless he comes up with some high publicity ways to deflect the attacks. The Liberals don't have as much money as the Conservatives so they can't afford to run constant attack ads in response.
Great reaction. Works as a sound-bite, sounds reasonable and smart, and makes Harper out to be shrill. You'll probably hear it on the news in its entirety.
Justin has definitely got a pretty good handle on the PR side of this at this point.
That was pretty appalling.
..I don't have a Picard facepalm meme handy when I need it.
I really hope Trudeau puts out a commercial one day (or even a youtube ad) talking about why he'd be a good leader, and then end with a tagline styled like the Conservative attack lines (eg. Dion is still not a leader, Ignatief is just visiting) but have it say "Justin Trudeau, not just a good head of hair" as an obvious parody.
There were some pretty good ads for Ignatieff, talking about his time abroad and how it related to his 'love of Canada' that I really liked, but I don't think they ever really got a lot of broadcast play (seemed to be online only). Not sure why, they really needed to answer why a prime minister who's seen the world can be a good thing. Especially since it stands so starkly in contrast with Harper's complete lack of travel, both before and during his tenure.
No $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to run ads
The Liberals are basically broke. That's also why the Conservatives got rid of the Federal subsidy of $2/vote to Federal parties with more than 5% of the popular vote. They wanted to further limit the funding of the Liberals so that they'll permanently be at a cash disadvantage. The Conservatives have huge hordes of cash for attack ads and generating more cash.
gutter_trash
Banned
Iggy was an unknown, it was easier for Conservatives to define him. Some parts of Canada completely did not know Iggnatief at all.
It is way harder to paint Justin as ''un-Canadian'' being son of one of the most well known PMs of recent times.
It is way harder to paint Justin as ''un-Canadian'' being son of one of the most well known PMs of recent times.
They did it for the last 2 elections as well. They ran constant ads for years to tear down the Liberal leaders and the Liberals had no money to do anything about it.
BladeWorker
Member
But they can still run CEAP ads, which are thinly-veiled partisanship.
That's not the line of attack. It's all about Trudeau not being experienced enough.
If Justin is smart, he'll run with that and talk up the advantages of not living only in the political world for his entire professional life like Harper did. He can use that to play to a better understanding of average Canadians.
gutter_trash
Banned
The Conservatives want the Liberals gone and they want a clear Right vs Left political landscape of Conservatives vs NDP with no Liberal in existence.
Centrists and Center-Right voters are people who vote Liberal again if they feel that the Conservatives are going too far.
but these same Centrists and Center-Right voters will vote Conservative again if they feel that Liberals are too weak on the economy.
This is why Harper wants the Liberals to vanish, to clear keep the centrist and center-right voters on their side. And who better the wedge that than a left leaning NDP.
Centrists and Center-Right voters are people who vote Liberal again if they feel that the Conservatives are going too far.
but these same Centrists and Center-Right voters will vote Conservative again if they feel that Liberals are too weak on the economy.
This is why Harper wants the Liberals to vanish, to clear keep the centrist and center-right voters on their side. And who better the wedge that than a left leaning NDP.
gutter_trash
Banned
Liberals can remind Canadians who balanced consecutive budgets (Martin, Goodale) and then who ran deficits (Flaherty)
You Are Viewtiful
Member
Whether people want to admit it or not Trudeau gets free advertising from the media. I think the Liberals are safe for now.
IIRC, Brison, Goodale, and Ignatieff were doing just that until they shit the bed and pushed for an election.
I'm not sure why people would think the Liberals are weak on the economy. The last decade of the Liberals in power had a great economy. They only got taken down due to party strife over leadership and that sponsorship scandal that got overblown.
Harper wasted almost as much money building an artificial lake for a 1 hour photo shoot for the G8 summit.
Harper wasted almost as much money building an artificial lake for a 1 hour photo shoot for the G8 summit.
Or bad on social policy when Martin as PM with Dryden in Social Development was stupid progressive. Departmental cuts with Martin as FM is a shitty reason when that money just was redirected to new programs like the social economy initiative, national daycare, and a contingency fund in case... 2009 happened.
edit- Garrison just make the NDP look pretty bad imo. You never want to be in the NDP caught saying "I actually agree with Mr. Harper..." regardless of the context.
killer rin
Member
Dammit Canada... stop politicizing these kinds of things and bringing us closer to American-style political system
Canadians aren't asking for this, the Conservatives have tied us all up and now are dragging us into it by force
Canadians aren't asking for this, the Conservatives have tied us all up and now are dragging us into it by force
Garrison isn't exactly innocent too.
equippedwithtowel
Member
Dammit Canada... stop politicizing these kinds of things and bringing us closer to American-style political system
USA USA USA superior democracy
Complex Shadow
Cudi Lame
Not gonna lie. The 2party system looked real appealing last election.
killer rin
Member
Sure, but in the long run its better our way with multiple parties. We just need to beat the conservatives before Canadians become disinterested in politics due to a generalized viewpoint that nothing will change anything. Then once that happens, whether Liberal, NDP or Green, We just need to outlaw attack ads, outlaw campaigning at the federal level on a non-election year and maybe switch the federal elections off of Pass-the-Post. Even if the Conservatives win a minority next time around, we need to get all parties to work together to block the Tories and get one or both of those passed.
NDP's socialist caucus would burn everything to the ground.
Because they think Canadian politics into conservatives versus non-conservatives.
And this is good?
matthewwhatever
Member
It's not good, but both the Conservatives and the NDP are convinced that if they can just get rid of the Liberals, they'd have permanent majorities. Hence why you have people on both sides -- but especially on the Dippers' side, where they think that all the Liberal voters will just magically become NDP voters -- who are so set on turning it into a two-party system.
Of course it isn't. It's a stupid, short-sighted view of Canadian politics.
edit- the Death of the Liberal Party would simply mean Conservative governments 7 out of 10 times, and NDP governments fucking things up the other 3 times.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
In fact, it's three conservative parties and a former socialist party that wants to be conservative in order to win!
(It's sad that for the most part, the Bloc seems to be the party I'm most aligned with but would never vote for. Go figure!)
But see how that turned out for him?
Multiparty systems in a horrible FPTP system leads to horrible deadlocks and wasted votes. If you are Conservative, there's no point in voting in Toronto for example. Of course, if you are Conservative, maybe you don't want to live in Toronto anyway!
We have never had a deadlock in Canada like a 2 party system can produce. Wasted votes, sure, but deadlock? Where are you getting that notion? We have too strong a quasi-executive for anything in the legislature to ever truly lead to deadlock.
Anyways, you can not solve the FPTP problems by going to a two party system. By trying to do that you just permanently entrench the consequences of that system and ensure that parties will grow even more corrupt than they already are.
The only way to solve the problems brought about by FPTP is to get rid of FPTP.
CitizenVectron
Member
Exactly. The solution to our problems (legislatively and democratically) is to get rid of FPTP, not to get rid of more parties.
BladeWorker
Member
I'd rather we change how strong our political parties are within the existing system first. If we still have the problems that we have, legislatively and politically, then I'll get on board the electoral system change bandwagon.
What do you mean by how strong they are?
equippedwithtowel
Member
If the system is broken it offers a poor reflection of the parties merit.
BladeWorker
Member
I'd argue that in Canada, we have a very strong party system. Parties, as much as and often moreso than local RAs choose who their candidate is in a given riding. Parties control who says what - sometimes down to the letter - in Parliament and in committees. Executive control is nearly absolute over the governing party, and party whips exert more control over votes in Parliament than they do in a republican system, such is what is seen in the US.
Party control even extends to the Senate, where nominated individuals aren't really supposed to represent a party, but a region of the province.
Political party insiders and strategists determine who wins and how, who stays in caucus and why, and this pulls our system further away from de facto regional and local representation that would ordinarily exist given the theoretical parameters of FPTP.
If the threat of being tossed from caucus for not voting along party lines didn't exist, for example, I'd argue that MPs would be freer to represent *all* constituents in their ridings, and this would reduce the necessity to modify an electoral system criticized for its inability to be immediately responsive to the wishes of diverse constituencies.
There are downsides to this approach, of course, but the strength of the party system in Canada has its tentacles in "operational" and "management", which I think poison how we view individual aspects of governance and policymaking. Make parties collectives of likeminded folk rather than the bow-down-and-kiss-the-ring monarchies that they are, and we might see the worst of what we hate about governing in Canada improve.
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