massivekettle
Member
I think he wants (wanted) the TPP to become his legacy, effectively.
Canadian General Election (OT) - #elxn42: October 19, 2015
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I think he wants (wanted) the TPP to become his legacy, effectively.
Answered the first part of your question.
Second part is there's 12 partners in the agreement. We entered negotiations in October 2012. There's 6 countries that have announced interest but couldn't come to an agreement. Canada most likely wanted to be on the 12 instead of 6 side to not lose out on some preferred negotiations by being an original partner (well outside the original 4 via the 2008 negotiations) so it's going to agree to things it may not like to get things it liked and this is just when negotiations completed.
You take a too simple view of the global stage. Decisions can't be made easily because you don't like something in it.
Another simplistic view. There is some really scary language in the TPP that's going to drastically change how the internet works for people and restrict the freedom of information (or movement of that information) and use for all. And those copyright changes also have drastic implications in how media is consumed. It's not something to brush aside.
And neither is the opposite side of the spectrum, the economic realities of what not participating in the TPP would mean.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Yes, but one is literally stealing content from someone and the other is modifying a device that you have paid for.
If you don't care about these rights, that's fine, but I think it's important to know what we're giving up before we collectively sign these rights away.
I mean, I don't give a shit about the fact that all domains will have to be registered to people using their full names and addresses, but I can understand why someone with privacy concerns would think that's troubling.
(I just checked NeoGAF and Evilore is smart enough not to have his address attached to the neogaf.com domain registration information
)I mean my real problem with the TPP was that all of this was negotiated in secret, so we have to rely on Wikileaks of all places to find out what's actually in the full document.
Impeccable
Member
I feel optimistic and proud to be Canadian again waking up this morning. Now it's time to act, Justin!
Obviously, nothing changed in my riding as expected.
Obviously, nothing changed in my riding as expected.
But that's the same across the board - has nothing to do with Harper or his government. Trudeau and Mulcair would have had to do the exact same thing to participate in the TPP negotiations.
That's just how international treaties are worked out. They have to consider competing interests leveraging negotiations for other treaties with knowledge of the treaty being negotiated. Same way when a company is discussing a merger with another company, the details aren't disclosed until they come through the first negotiations to ensure a competing company doesn't come in with a different bid or leverages that to gain a competitive advantage.
This isn't a political issue you are having, so I'm not sure why you are bringing it up in this thread. This is a way foreign diplomacy occurs between nations of the world. You are complaining about and to the wrong people on TPP.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Right, but when I say that the Liberals will probably pass TPP, am I wrong? Maybe they'll try to go back to renegotiate, I have no idea, but I have no doubt that they're generally in favour of the deal.
How was the dip?
You are all over the place.
Passing the TPP is totally different then the secret negotiations of the TPP.
TPP is not passed. The secret negotiations have been completed.
So let's go through all your 3 questions.
Secret negotiations? To participate in the TPP negotiations, you have to keep them secret. So Trudeau and Mulcair would have had to comply with that. So there's no political statement to have here against or for any of the 3 parties.
Support TPP? The conservatives have said they support the TPP. The Liberals have said they will review and have a public debate on the TPP to determine their support. The NDP have said they don't support the TPP in it's current form but will need to review to make any decisions (retractment of the original no blanket statement). So if you are making a decision on which party supports TPP, the only answer right now is the conservatives.
Pass the TPP? If the US and Japan pass the TPP, all 3 parties will be forced to participate in the TPP whether they support it or not. So not sure how you can make a political item out of this. NDP or Liberals are the same here. NDP originally said no but retracted that statement and changed it to a review. Any party that says no would have to make up that trade deficit which would be political suicide as there's no way to do this outside some crazy exclusive agreement with China.
Let's talk again in 18 months
Mr. Giggles
Member
Bon matin everybody, did we do it ? Is.... Is he gone?
Edit: yep! Good bye Steve thanks for........
Well good bye!
Edit: yep! Good bye Steve thanks for........
Well good bye!
oneils
Member
Ha. Hadn't thought of this. It would be kind of funny.
Enter the Dragon Punch
Banned
It is amazing seeing the absolute ass pain on social media from Conservative supporters over Liberals winning.
Canada PoliGAF thread in Community.
Blue Submarine No. 6
Member
Global news is touting this as the best voter turnout since 1993:
But at least 67.62 per cent of eligible Canadians voted in this election, as of 2:40 a.m. — more than the 61.1 per cent turnout in 2011 and the highest turnout Canada’s had in a federal election since 1993, when turnout was 69.6:
Good news! Still needs work but its a great step!
Makes sense, since the Conservatives didn't win.
It is amazing seeing the absolute ass pain on social media from Conservative supporters over Liberals winning.
Yeah, some of my friends posts make me feel embarrassed. It's not so much that their upset, it's just the hyperbole of it.
Also: Awesome to see that voter turn out was so high!
EDIT: This whole thread has been a treat. Now that the hard part for us is over, it's time for Trudeau to live up to his expectations.
Which makes a lot of sense. Conservatives do best with apathy and voter suppression techniques. Let's hope for that electoral reform.
gutter_trash
Banned
no, the Liberals lost their mojo post Sponsorship Scandal and many of their supporters either stayed home for while or flirted with the the two other parties for a decade.
Now, Justin Trudeau brought the Liberals back to their big scores not seen since 1968. Justin out performed Jean Chrétien's 1993 win. Trudeau has slowly rebuilt the base that was fractured.
Older voters who use to like big L in the name Liberals of they old days of Pierre Trudeau are happy to vote Liberal again.
Young voters who grew disdain of the negativity from Conservatives have found a voice in Justin's message.
+ the most important factor is that Jason Kenny's work in 2011 of masterfully creating winning conditions among ethnic minorities to vote Conservative andnot Liberal have been completely burnt to the ground with Harper's choice in 2015 to make a big deal about identiy politics. This turned off many Canadians but mostly it push ethnic minorties back into the arms of the Liberals.
Harper adopted Marois' loser strategy of using identity poltiics which has been proven twice in to make them lose.
and finally, Prime Ministers rarely last over a decade, almost never pull off a 4th mandate. Change of regime is always the norm after such a long rule by one PM or party
Liberals just won the MAJORITY with 39,5 % of the 67.71% that voted, it's helping them way too much to ever change it
This is actually the biggest thing that firehawks argument is annoying me. His precious ndp leader stayed out with a firm no he wouldn't even read it followed with a flip a few days later with a comical we have to review it realized that they might have to pass it if they became the leading party yet it has been the liberals stance since the beginning. At no point have the liberals saids they would simply pass it and I'm fact have taken the most non partisan, logical stance on it, yet somehow he already wants to blame them for something they haven't even done or said based entirely on your ideological partisanship. You, and a bunch of the other die hard "the ndp can do nothing wrong" supporters are as bad as die hard con supporters.
gutter_trash
Banned
the biggest problems with minority govs is that of their policies have short term outlooks, with short term goals, short term results and the worst part, perpetual campaign mode.
the usefulness of a majority is to get things done that have an impact in the long term that may not see fruit right away but end up being good for the long term.
massivekettle
Member
Not so sure. Conservative majority of 2011 had a larger % of popular vote than the 2015 majority won by the Liberals last night...
Me thinks that the Liberals will shelve that electoral reform for a bit and focus on other (easier) issues...
Except that historical data doesn't allow you to make that conclusion (i.e., Liberals have won with very low turnout too and that turnout in 2011 (Tory majority) was similar to some of the Liberals' wins (2000, 2004).
gutter_trash
Banned
when parties win big under the FPTP system, they quickly shelve any talks of electoral reform.
kiss PR goodbye
the NDP of have kissed PR goodbye if FPTP was as good for them
kiss PR goodbye
the NDP of have kissed PR goodbye if FPTP was as good for them
There will be reform. Many voted liberal on the promise of reform. If they don't deliver, liberals will lose a lot of momentum in the next election.
I doubt it, and i'd be willing to bet on it. People won't remember what he promised 4 years from now, and 8 years from now they won't remember what the conservative did and people will vote for them again, that's just the way it goes
gutter_trash
Banned
prefferential ballots is my choice and the LPC's choice for obvious reasons.
i want Trudeau as PM for life
i want Trudeau as PM for life
It's part of their platform. Don't let 10 years of Harper apathy make you be pessimistic.
They nearly got destroyed in 2011 and the Conservatives attempted to bankrupt the other parties by removing the $1 per vote and creating the longest election we've had in a very very long time. It's too important not to do.
Well the part of their platform says they will get a group from all the parties together to discuss different alternatives to what we have now. It didn't say they would automatically higo with pr
Simon Belmont
Banned
i'm far from being a liberals fan, so yeah i'm pessimistic
I have my doubt, but then again it's all about political views and i'm not that stupid, if he does a good job i'll give him credit for it.I'm not expecting PR.
I think they'll deliver on some sort of reform, but Trudeau was against PR as recently as a couple years ago:
"The problem with proportional representation is that every different model of proportional representation actually increases partisanship, not reduces it . . . I understand people want proportional representation, but too many people dont understand the polarization and the micro-issues that come through proportional representation."
It's an option in the platform, but I don't see it being the option they go with, especially with the majority victory.
I think they'll deliver on some sort of reform, but Trudeau was against PR as recently as a couple years ago:
"The problem with proportional representation is that every different model of proportional representation actually increases partisanship, not reduces it . . . I understand people want proportional representation, but too many people dont understand the polarization and the micro-issues that come through proportional representation."
It's an option in the platform, but I don't see it being the option they go with, especially with the majority victory.
Why are you so jaded and cynical?
Due to Liberal history from 10 years ago with different leadership?
Due to provincial governments?
Nope. But I wasn't the one who said proportional representation. That is the best outcome but anything is better that fptp.
There's also ranked ballots. Although that will create the next level of strategic voting, it would allow us to have to greater control over our Government.
Layton ain't coming back. That was one of the fundamental problems with the NDP. Change isn't that.
I'm feeling bad for some of the NDP candidates that lost last night
Wish Dewar could have kept his seat and I wish there was more strategic voting in the Carleton riding so that Poilievre could have lost his.
I'm not. Toronto-Danforth got rid of Craig Scott. Julie Dabrusin will be much better.
Both, and you have to understand that as a quebecer my opinion and feeling of the name Trudeau is far different from yours. As I said i'll give them credit if they do a good job but as of right now I have my doubts and fears
I'm listening to a Conservative radio talk show(CFRA 580) and, although there are a bunch of level headed Conservatives who are hopeful of Justin's leadership, the bitter tears of a lot of them are delicious, even to the point where the hosts think that some callers are being ridiculous.
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