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Canadian General Election (OT) - #elxn42: October 19, 2015

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Oh boy. I feel like a hard press like that from Wynne is not going to have the effect she intends.

The impression I'm getting from the Ontarians I know is that they're already souring on the Ontario Liberal Party, mostly due to their terrible Hydro privatization scheme. I don't know if that's an impression shared by most average Ontarians or just my left wing friends. I'm an outsider looking in.

I don't know about other people but I still think she's doing a great job. As for Hydro One privatization, the way she/they are going about privatizing is pretty much a best case scenario. They effectively keep full control but sell of a chunk for a large cash infusion. I'd probably prefer that they not privatize and get a better federal money transfer (and I'd prefer this for all provinces since federal has waaaaay too much share of tax revenue) but given the circumstances -- large one time infrastructure expenses matched with a large one time cash infusion -- this isn't a bad solution.

If you compare to the privatization of Nova Scotia Power, which was pretty much just given away (at a loss!) to foreign shareholders and has led to decades of power infrastructure stagnation and price increases, it looks like a much better deal.
 

StevieP

Banned
I don't know about other people but I still think she's doing a great job. As for Hydro One privatization, the way she/they are going about privatizing is pretty much a best case scenario. They effectively keep full control but sell of a chunk for a large cash infusion. I'd probably prefer that they not privatize and get a better federal money transfer (and I'd prefer this for all provinces since federal has waaaaay too much share of tax revenue) but given the circumstances -- large one time infrastructure expenses matched with a large one time cash infusion -- this isn't a bad solution.

If you compare to the privatization of Nova Scotia Power, which was pretty much just given away (at a loss!) to foreign shareholders and has led to decades of power infrastructure stagnation and price increases, it looks like a much better deal.

When has any kind of privatization of public infrastructure ever gone well for the public? I say this as i'm about to hop on the 407...
 
If you compare to the privatization of Nova Scotia Power, which was pretty much just given away (at a loss!) to foreign shareholders and has led to decades of power infrastructure stagnation and price increases, it looks like a much better deal.

Seems like a great deal!
 

Azih

Member
How the heck does she retain full control if she sells off 60%? And exempts the new entity from transparency laws?

I honestly think Trudeau spends too much time in a bubble of partisan advisers if he thinks linking himself to people like Eve Adams and Wynne is a good idea.
 
How the heck does she retain full control if she sells off 60%? And exempts the new entity from transparency laws?

I honestly think Trudeau spends too much time in a bubble of partisan advisers if he thinks linking himself to people like Eve Adams and Wynne is a good idea.

I'd probably prefer they go with 51% ownership but 40% is such a massive share that they'd effectively get their way no matter what. Especially when you consider that no other shareholder can have more than 10%.
 

Azih

Member
I'd probably prefer they go with 51% ownership but 40% is such a massive share that they'd effectively get their way no matter what. Especially when you consider that no other shareholder can have more than 10%.

Yeah there's no way the private corps won't work together against the wishes of the public governmental body. Especially since they're no longer working under the transparency of a public utility. Are you serious?
 

GSG Flash

Nobody ruins my family vacation but me...and maybe the boy!
Taxpayer funding for the monstrous Victims of Communism memorial(which the Conservatives will most certainly have built if reelected) has ballooned to $4.2 million and will probably balloon even further: http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...ictims-of-communism-memorial-soars-above-4-2m

I wish the Ottawa media made this issue more prominent in the public view, it's textbook example of reckless spending by the Conservatives/Harper to promote their/his ideology.
 

explodet

Member
Could be worse, they could have pushed for a Victims of Capitalism memorial. It would have been huge. I heard Donald Trump was in the running for the construction.

They're still working on plans for the Victims of Fascism and Victims of Anarcho-Syndicalism memorials.
 
Do you mean spending public funds on pleasure like the stuff in the tweet? If there are any rumours you have heard, please share!

If the Anonymous leaks are real, the sex tape that I was hoping for has arrived (well, close enough).

I wouldn't put too much stock in there being some smoking gun tape or photo. Anonymous is known for promising stuff like this and then not delivering. It all sounds a lot like the rumours before the 2008 US election, when Republicans were promising each other that there was a tape of Michelle Obama saying "Kill whitey". Like Silexx said, there are mainly just rumours of Baird throwing giant, drunken parties with his friends in other countries...if there are pictures, they'd have presumably come out by now.

He's bluffing. Liberals not joining a coalition will be way worse for them than joining a coalition.

I think the Liberals realize that by disavowing any coalition plans, they can win over some soft Conservative support, which could be enough to throw Ontario into their column. Fear of an NDP win gave the CPC a last-minute surge in Ontario last time around -- almost wholly at the expense of the Liberals -- so that could work against the Conservatives this time.

You know, my mind ended up wandering yesterday during work, and I came across something I overlooked on the topic of Electoral Reform. I'm almost certain that the NDP and Liberals will be able to get a bill passed through the house no problem... but thats only one part of the electoral system. It would still have to pass through the Senate, something which the Conservatives have a huge majority on.

If Harper was petty enough, couldn't he just tell the senators to vote against the bill like he has done in the past for other bills which the other parties have managed to get through the house.

The same applies for pretty much any legislation. The Liberals in the Senate could probably get a workable coalition going, since there are still some Red Tories in there who've been tinkering with some of Harper's legislation, but I don't know what the NDP would do. I'm not even sure how their legislation would get introduced in the Upper Chamber in the first place, let alone passed through. If they instantly appointed 20 Senators, that would bring the non-Conservative total to a majority, plus they could invoke S.26 of the Constitution Act to appoint an additional 8 senators, but that seems like it'd be really risky politics for the NDP (whereas for the Liberals, it would give them a chance to show how committed they are to non-partisan appointments).

Also, RE: the Wynne rally, it's about getting partisans excited and ready to vote. Compare this NDP rally/Mulcair book launch:

CMsZjlsVAAEUnLe.png

to this picture from last night:


Same venue in Toronto. One was small enough that Energy East protesters ended up being the takeaway story, the other generated all kinds of pictures of Trudeau speaking to a big, energetic crowd.
 
http://abacusdata.ca/election-2015-ndp-leads-but-70-of-voters-up-for-grabs/

New poll:

NDP - 35% (+3)
CPC - 29% (-)
LPC - 28% (-1)

http://i.imgur.com/bEusFFt.png

Other interesting part of the poll is which final form the government takes (in terms of people who support it or would be okay with it):

NDP minority supported by LPC: 62%
LPC minority supported by NDP: 61%
NDP majority: 60%
LPC majority: 57%
CPC minority: 54%
CPC majority: 49%
the graph has LPC at 26% while your poll has them at 28%
 

Cake Boss

Banned
THE prime minister of Canada, Stephen Harper, has called an election for Oct. 19, but he doesn’t want anyone to talk about it.

The union that represents federal scientists and other professionals has, for the first time in its history, abandoned neutrality to campaign against Mr. Harper.

GET EM!!

get-em-how-high-o.gif


His active promotion of ignorance extends into the functions of government itself. Most shockingly, he ended the mandatory long-form census, a decision protested by nearly 500 organizations in Canada,

The Harper years have seen a subtle darkening of Canadian life.

GET EM!!!

get-em-how-high-o.gif


But the worst of the Harper years is that all this secrecy and informational control have been at the service of no larger vision for the country. The policies that he has undertaken have been negligible — more irritating distractions than substantial changes.

Then there is a new law that allows the government to revoke citizenship for dual citizens convicted of terrorism or high treason — effectively creating levels of Canadianness and problems where none existed.

get-em-how-high-o.gif


The major foreign policy goal of his tenure was the Keystone Pipeline, which Mr. Harper ultimately failed to deliver. The Canadian dollar has returned to the low levels that once earned it the title of the northern peso.

Whether or not he loses, he will leave Canada more ignorant than he found

08ad62b1_lopez-is-nuts-o.gif


DAT ETHER by NYTimes.

Best shit I read in a while.
 

jstripes

Banned
Just saw this on CP24, the salt is too fucking real.
Yup. Every time Rob Ford had a scandal in Toronto, Ford Nation laid the blame squarely on the media for reporting it.

"So what if Ford smokes crack? Haven't we all done things we're not supposed to? Don't you have better things to report on?"
 

gabbo

Member
Yup. Every time Rob Ford had a scandal in Toronto, Ford Nation laid the blame squarely on the media for reporting it.

"So what if Ford smokes crack? Haven't we all done things we're not supposed to? Don't you have better things to report on?"

Eventually that will come back on them. Not from their base, but undecided voters get to see people act like petulant children in public.
 

Azih

Member
It shows what diehard conservatives are telling themselves about all this and it's... not a good look.

If most of what they have left are the true kool-aid drinkers then it'll be harder and harder for them to reach out to fence sitters or get their less devoted base motivated to vote.

If what they're doing internally now is hating on the media for reporting on the Duffy trial then, man, that's a tactic you only use if all you can do is rile up your core to try to keep it intact.
 
New Nanos numbers:


CPC 32 (+1)
LPC 29 (+1)
NDP 29 (-2)

Interesting that even though their methodology is totally different from Mainstreet, they have almost identical numbers (and exactly the same numbers if you just look at Mainstreet's Decideds).

Cue Maharg telling us Nanos is wrong. Which isn't the worst thing, by the way -- I was briefing someone on the election this morning, and they asked how Nanos could find Conservative support growing when everyone else isn't seeing that, and thanks to him I was able to sound knowledgeable about 4-week rolling averages and and smaller samples.

Just saw this on CP24, the salt is too fucking real.

CBC just played an even longer version of the video. It was preceded by another older guy yelling at journalists that he'd been voting Conservative for 50 years, but never again until they told the truth. That led to the new CPC viral star getting angry at him, and then at reporters. It was kind of sad to watch -- it was like seeing what happens after a lifetime (or at least many, many years) of being told to be afraid and that the media is out to get you. Just lots of anger.
 
Ray Novak knew about the payment and lied to police, according to testimony presented in court today by a PMO lawyer. Calls are out for his resignation now, and for the PM to answer questions.
 

Walpurgis

Banned
Ray Novak knew about the payment and lied to police, according to testimony presented in court today by a PMO lawyer. Calls are out for his resignation now, and for the PM to answer questions.

This is gonna be good.

New Democrats ask RCMP if they'll reopen Senate-expenses probe
The federal New Democrats are asking the Mounties to reopen their investigation into Nigel Wright, Stephen Harper's former chief of staff, and expand it to include other senior Conservatives in Harper's inner circle in light of new evidence filed in an Ottawa court room.
[...]
In a letter to RCMP Commissioner Bob Paulson, the NDP's Charlie Angus says: "I am writing to ask whether the RCMP will now be laying charges against Nigel Wright.

"I am also asking, based on this new information, whether Ray Novak or any other staff working in the Prime Minister's office should be investigated for their role working with Mr. Wright in relation to this matter."

Evidence filed in court shows that senior staff in the Prime Minister's Office were working closely with Conservative senators to have Wright repay Duffy's expenses, in exchange for the senator saying he'd repaid them himself.
[...]
NDP Leader Tom Mulcair said during an afternoon campaign stop in Parksville, B.C., that the New Democrats are asking the RCMP to "take a new look" and expect to receive "a clear response" from Paulson.

The Mounties charged Duffy with 31 charges related to Senate expenses but said last year that the evidence gathered in the course of their investigation did "not support criminal charges" against Mr. Wright.

"Since then, significant new evidence has come to light at trial that raises new questions about Mr. Wright's role in this scandal," said Angus in his letter to the RCMP.

"Evidence at trial points to over a dozen people involved in a plan to make a secret payment to a sitting Senator, have him make intentionally misleading statements to the public, and interfere with an independent audit," Angus wrote.
From what I have read, there should definitely be charges against the Wright fellow like yesterday. I know Anon doesn't have the best track record but I found this interesting.
V1BS5Fm.png

nRoKrQu.png

2EzGX96.png

rvt1SkE.png

After reading this, I wouldn't be shocked at all.
 

Walpurgis

Banned
IMO, Tom only cares about Tom

Jack was the real deal. Tom is just a shape shifter

As far as Justin Trudeau goes, nobody doubts Trudeau being a Liberal making Trudeau authentic
 

Walpurgis

Banned
IMO, Tom only cares about Tom

Jack was the real deal. Tom is just a shape shifter

As far as Justin Trudeau goes, nobody doubts Trudeau being a Liberal making Trudeau authentic

I don't think Mulcair is a true NDP but he's helped make the party a real contender. If the NDP form government that will be a major milestone for them and will open the way for other parties like the Greens and kill chances of the Conservatives (or any party) every holding a majority again.

I think Trudeau is a real Liberal, he just....too worried about Conservative votes. He doesn't stick to his ideals. That C-51 thing was messed up and I heard some Liberals left the party because of it. I don't think he actually wants C-51 though.
 
I don't think Mulcair is a true NDP but he's helped make the party a real contender. If the NDP form government that will be a major milestone for them and will open the way for other parties like the Greens and kill chances of the Conservatives (or any party) every holding a majority again.

I think Trudeau is a real Liberal, he just....too worried about Conservative votes. He doesn't stick to his ideals. That C-51 thing was messed up and I heard some Liberals left the party because of it. I don't think he actually wants C-51 though.

Sherbrooke Declaration = Tom cannot be trusted on national unity.
 
None of the party leaders actually govern to their personal beliefs. They all do things they don't agree with in order to gain power and do some of the things they agree with. Harper can't ban gay marriage or abortions, but he can cut taxes and try and shrink government involvement in many sectors, as examples.

Both Trudeau and Mulcair have to make the same sacrifices. To act like either is 100% pure and honest is pretty naive. Anyone who has any chance at power has to accept compromise.
 

Walpurgis

Banned
Good Luck having a forever Conservative rule in Ottawa without a Quebec
Oh damn, you're right.
Too bad for you that you have to thank the NDP for that ;)
lol
None of the party leaders actually govern to their personal beliefs. They all do things they don't agree with in order to gain power and do some of the things they agree with. Harper can't ban gay marriage or abortions, but he can cut taxes and try and shrink government involvement in many sectors, as examples.

Both Trudeau and Mulcair have to make the same sacrifices. To act like either is 100% pure and honest is pretty naive. Anyone who has any chance at power has to accept compromise.

I know but there are some lines you can't cross, at least imo.
 
None of the party leaders actually govern to their personal beliefs. They all do things they don't agree with in order to gain power and do some of the things they agree with. Harper can't ban gay marriage or abortions, but he can cut taxes and try and shrink government involvement in many sectors, as examples.

Both Trudeau and Mulcair have to make the same sacrifices. To act like either is 100% pure and honest is pretty naive. Anyone who has any chance at power has to accept compromise.

looks at income tax rates........ doesn't see a change.. what tax cut you talking about?


the GST? a consummer tax? pfffffffff that is small potatoes for teh average Canadian.

singletons have not seen any tax cuts

Shrink government? what you talking about? Harper has increased the size of government and government spending
 

Pedrito

Member
The best thing about this guy is that he's complaining the media keep talking about the Duffy trial and yet, he still doesn't seem to grasp what it's actually about considering he thinks it has something to do with his tax return.

A nice example of the Conservatives' base.
 
The best thing about this guy is that he's complaining the media keep talking about the Duffy trial and yet, he still doesn't seem to grasp what it's actually about considering he thinks it has something to do with his tax return.

A nice example of the Conservatives' base.
Ford Nation
 

Biff

Member
I'm calling it now, save this bad boy for posterity:

Tom Mulcair's lack of charisma will be the deciding factor that costs the NDP the election.

Two more months of the Canadian public trying to stay awake while Mulcair drones on in the background of rockstar Trudeau and evil villain Harper? He has no chance. I had engineering professors more engaging than this guy.

The average Canadian doesn't watch CSpan. This is the country's first extended, widespread exposure to Mulcair. And he is incredibly boring. Leaders aren't supposed to be boring, and the more we see of him, the more this will be reflected in the polls.
 
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