perfectchaos007
Member
For America sure. America was founded by a milkshake duck
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Christopher Columbus monument vandalized in Baltimore
- Thread starter ponpo
- Start date
For America sure. America was founded by a milkshake duck
gutter_trash
Banned
il Genocidotorre di Genova
How does it do that exactly? People will really learn what an awful man Columbus is by all the monuments that celebrate him.
But it's alright because we have a Native American statue on the side of it.
Man this monument is really teaching a lot of the atrocities of Columbus.
How about putting up monuments to Columbus's victims, that will teach people not to let it happen again.
I guess we should take down Holocaust memorials and put up statues of Hitler and Himmler so we don't repeat the same mistakes.
Since we're tearing down iconography celebrating tyrannical historical figures (which is great!), is there going to be a point where we can start looking at religion, or is that just permanently off the table? Yes, I'm being serious.
If you all think Columbus is bad, I'd love to tell you about this thing called the Catholic Church.
If you all think Columbus is bad, I'd love to tell you about this thing called the Catholic Church.
I get why people would think that Columbus discovered America, I learned that too in Elementary school (with the footnote that it was actually Leif Eriksson, but his discovery never really caught on), but why the hell would people think Columbus proved the world was round? Do Americans not learn about Magellan or the fact that it was common knowledge during the Greek times?
It's also amusing to see everyone here repeating that Columbus apparently thought he had reached India. He thought he had reached the East Indies, not India. There's a pretty big difference between the two.
It's also amusing to see everyone here repeating that Columbus apparently thought he had reached India. He thought he had reached the East Indies, not India. There's a pretty big difference between the two.
The hypocrisy of people advocating vandalism pisses me off. Columbus was an evil dude, but I'm not going praise people for destroying public property. History is history - the good, bad, ugly, and evil.. all of it. Vandalism isn't going to erase that. Call representatives and protest to have it moved to a museum for god's sake.
I don't even want to get started on the ethnic cleansing of the Americas.
It seems people are fine with getting screwed over as long as the people doing the abusing are doing it by legal means, which never makes sense to me. When the rules are already stacked against you, then rules are meant to be broken.
Columbus is a tough one. He was an ass that committed atrocities. He's also the reason America exists, and someone else would be here otherwise.
We don't need to celebrate him, but it seems like people should know of him? It's not exactly like the confederate flag which only had the purpose of representing the desire to hold slaves
We don't need to celebrate him, but it seems like people should know of him? It's not exactly like the confederate flag which only had the purpose of representing the desire to hold slaves
I don't give a shit about Columbus, never understood why he was idolized and feel he shouldn't be celebrated, but unlike those garbage confederate statues erected to be symbols towards black people to "remember their place" that one is actually hundreds of years old so I'm a little conflicted in that it shouldn't be idolized, sure, but made in the 1700s is kind of legit.
I don't understand where the hypocrisy is. People don't believe there should be a statue of Columbus because they think he was an evil dude. They vandalize a statue of Columbus as a result, or are okay with its vandalization. Where's the hypocrisy?
Yup, cause the system has totally worked in the favor of minorities. Like a whole lot. /s
gutter_trash
Banned
see here, that is not true. That is your history class laying too much credit into one man.
his idolization was lead for the justification of expanding on the Manifest Destiny. Columbus was used as the SYMBOL even if allot inaccuracies are abound for his Over-Hypedness
We're talking about the guy who was horrible enough that his son testified against him because he was so goddamn horrible?
The very same guy the Spanish crown went "DEAR GOD, IN JAIL! NOW!" when they learned WTF he was doing in its name?
This is the guy people want to celebrate?
Just so we sure, we also talking about the guy who's very first reflex when discovering an indigenous people was to enslave them to get gold, right?
The very same guy the Spanish crown went "DEAR GOD, IN JAIL! NOW!" when they learned WTF he was doing in its name?
This is the guy people want to celebrate?
Just so we sure, we also talking about the guy who's very first reflex when discovering an indigenous people was to enslave them to get gold, right?
metalslimer
Member
Should be moved to a museum or equipped with huge bold or print on his horrible actions. I'm sick of people whining about learning from history when the statues themselves don't accurately represent history no matter how old it is.
The confederate monuments are just extra shitty
The confederate monuments are just extra shitty
Elegant Weapon
Member
None of the people advocating vandalism said this would "erase history"
we're saying we're not going to celebrate that fucked up history. Get it right
The hypocrisy lies within doing something illegal because you believe it's morally the right thing to do.
You don't have to play the minority card with me because I am one. Plenty of good have been accomplished by making voices heard and through protest. You don't have to make a point by destroying property.
Yeah, religion is the big bad of history. I mean, Columbus and all the other conquistadors did their atrocities in the name of the Catholic faith and the Pope happily agreed. The natives were godless savages after all.
I don't think you know what hypocrisy means, and I think you are too painfully ignorant of even recent history to be involved in this discussion.
Like, the entire civil rights movement was filled with illegal but moral acts in the pursuit of justice.
And destroying property is playing right into the hands of white nationalists so I really don't know what you're trying to prove?
Seriously if it wasn't the very 1st monument, I wouldn't be able to give less of a shit.
Makes you think that this country has so little history they can't not celebrate all the dickheads remotely related to it or there would nothing to celebrate or something.
No offense, but he did all this on his own.
He didn't need a religion to enslave and slaughter people.
He just wanted gold.
Religion didn't stop them but they didn't really any kind of incentives to do their BS.
Makes you think that this country has so little history they can't not celebrate all the dickheads remotely related to it or there would nothing to celebrate or something.
No offense, but he did all this on his own.
He didn't need a religion to enslave and slaughter people.
He just wanted gold.
Religion didn't stop them but they didn't really any kind of incentives to do their BS.
His Majesty
Banned
For all the bad stuff they did, they sure knew how to build stuff. So leave them alone, please. I live right beneath one of the biggest cathedrals of Europe and it's a marvel to behold every day.
Elegant Weapon
Member
That dastardly Martin Luther King Jr was a hypocrite, breaking the law just because he believed it's the morally right thing to do.
For real, there were minorities that believed that back then too. They still enjoyed the Civil Rights that his illegal demonstrations advanced, so who cares if you're also a "minority"?
Sit back and let real ones do the hard work while you play status quo
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
You can't get rid of religion but you can get people of that religion to help change it.
Because recent marches such as the women's march and protesting Trump, or even sit in marches were riddled with violence and destruction. Okay dude. If I'm too painfully ignorant, you have extreme tunnel vision.
dripdripsplash
Member
You piece of shit
Some people here still don't know, considering they're still saying Columbus was looking for the fastest way to India.
Seriously though, it took way too long for me as well. We all learned about how awful Hernan Cortez was, but never about how awful Columbus was, just that he was a bit of an idiot who only got funding because the Queen of Spain pitied him. His history of violence I had to find out on my own.
Elegant Weapon
Member
playing into their hands how? by destroying their fucked up vision of America?
The white supremacists should be afraid, I'm here to tell you that now. They're afraid of people of color being successful and having more babies, WELP! Their perfect vision of America won't happen, shit is changing and they can try to stop it but nature is taking it's course and many minorities don't plan to take their bullshit just because some are.
I don't plan to not having children to make white supremacists happy, I don't know about you.
that's what i was wondering earlier. i haven't met a person in my life who thought columbus was some great dude. we started learning about him (and the bad things associated with him) in grade school.
Thelonelykoopa
Member
Thats why I give an example of John Cabot who is just as related to the rediscovery of North America by Europeans as Columbus if not more as he actually was the one to get to North America and he has none of immoral baggage that goes with Columbus yet the United States has no statues to him only Canada and England does. Their are decent people in history that could use statues but we choose to errect in the honor of the dishonorable ones.
Elegant Weapon
Member
wonderful discourse, you've convinced me
I've noticed you post before though. A hit dog will holler
This is exactly why people choose to not engage in discussions regarding topics such as these because it just ends up resulting in petty, unnecessary insults. I guess I'll just sit back and let a "real" minority fight for my rights.
America didn't have a much of a history compared to Europe, which had a vast and rich history, so they took what they could find and idolized it. Columbus was an ideal icon, as the "discoverer" of the new world. Nevermind the fact that he never actually set foot on America, and was kind of a monster, people were uneducated and would never find that out.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Your the one with tunnel vision since you care so much about the well being of this statue.
Nothing to discuss. What you did was shitty
gutter_trash
Banned
Queen Isabella was the religious one not Columbus.
Columbus was driven by greed and wanted gold no matter the human cost.
Religion was the excuse he used to convince Isabella in approving his initial expedition.
Greed was his principal motivator
OG Shaka Zulu
Member
Columbus didn't care about consent or proper channels. Who cares if his statues get vandalized? The only people that have a dog in that fight are cleanup crews, city officials, and police who have to solve a new vandalism case.
Says a lot that with millions of people protesting, you zero in on the few instances of violence or destruction of property.
My examples go beyond 2017, so I'm not sure how you can acccuse me of tunnel vision.
Yeah, I've been calling it Indigenous Peoples Day for so long I kind of forgot that nobody else in the country calls it that.
this has to be satire
The alt-left at it again... why do people have to *confirm* Trump talking points this hard? He was literally talking about "Which statue is next?" and now random statues are vandalized.
I mean, if we tear down *all* statues, I would be cool with it, because if we apply the same moral standards, Washington and co. would also have to go. Basically every historical figure in a political function has blood on her / his hands, so why the cherry-picking?
And I picture people wearing Che Guevara shirts doing this kind of stuff... that irony.
I mean, if we tear down *all* statues, I would be cool with it, because if we apply the same moral standards, Washington and co. would also have to go. Basically every historical figure in a political function has blood on her / his hands, so why the cherry-picking?
And I picture people wearing Che Guevara shirts doing this kind of stuff... that irony.
I don't care about the well-being of a statue, but I have the sense to understand that odds are, white nationalists are NEVER going to change their beliefs. That's not who you should be targeting to understand the fucked up things Columbus did. The people you should be targeting are the common American who doesn't know any better and just goes off of what they were taught in school; people can only comprehend and understand what they know. Do you really think you're going to get the common person to understand your plight and the issues you have with Columbus by vandalizing a statue? No. Ive already seen people complaining about this on Facebook who aren't white nationalists by any means. They still think Columbus discovered whatever and blah blah blah. They have no IDEA what he actually did, and you've already tainted the waters and they aren't going to care.
If you go about getting people to see your side by vandalism and destroying property, cool, you do you. But that's not how I operate.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Your right.
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