Everything you construct in a city has a production cost (the little hammer symbol). Your cities gain resources from the tile they are situated on, and for each tile being worked by a citizen (if you view the city, i.e. click on it, you can go to 'citizen management' in the upper right hand corner). Different kinds of tiles offer different kinds of resources, from mainly production, food, and gold. Food determines when a new citizen is born in your city (and number of citizens determine how quickly you can harvest the resources in the tiles around your city). The key thing about production is that it's not really something you collect and store, it's just a measure of how quickly your city is able to complete the task you give it.
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Civilization V Brave New World |OT| More than Content Tourism
- Thread starter Fragamemnon
- Start date
Everything you construct in a city has a production cost (the little hammer symbol). Your cities gain resources from the tile they are situated on, and for each tile being worked by a citizen (if you view the city, i.e. click on it, you can go to 'citizen management' in the upper right hand corner). Different kinds of tiles offer different kinds of resources, from mainly production, food, and gold. Food determines when a new citizen is born in your city (and number of citizens determine how quickly you can harvest the resources in the tiles around your city). The key thing about production is that it's not really something you collect and store, it's just a measure of how quickly your city is able to complete the task you give it.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
So any strategy with Shoshone?
Took an eon and a half, but I stuck it out with Venice and won culturally. Had 3-4 occasions where I could have ended it early diplomatically, given how much cash I was swimming in between all the trade routes and Venetian Merchant missions. Was raking in over 1,000 per turn, along with nearly 1,000 culture and over 1,000 tourism. Time to bump the difficulty, I set it to Prince to learn some of the new systems on, and for a time it was indeed a struggle and I was a middling power for the longest time. By the end I was unstoppable, found momentum once I correctly aligned my focus on maxing trade and staying maxed.
Love the civ playstyle, it's just as intense as any other civ's, but you're constantly pouring gold into infrastructure for your puppets instead of giving a large number of cities direct production tasks. In general, I think my experiences here have made me quite a bit better at maximizing gold income, given that for Venice in particular it's the difference between life and death.
Love the civ playstyle, it's just as intense as any other civ's, but you're constantly pouring gold into infrastructure for your puppets instead of giving a large number of cities direct production tasks. In general, I think my experiences here have made me quite a bit better at maximizing gold income, given that for Venice in particular it's the difference between life and death.
Red Arremer
Member
Honestly, the Shoshone seem to have no real advantage whatsoever beyond having a decent early game (they can get quicker access to resources and the ruins with their better scouts).
After the collecting ruins part is over, they seem to be a more defensively oriented civ. You want to go wide with them and expand a lot so you can make use of your trait, but yeah, beyond pissing off other civs with your bigger borders stealing resources away from them, there's not much they can do.
I would say cultural victory seems to be what they would prefer, to be honest.
Venice is such an intense civ to play, isn't it?
Lie down with Doges, get up with fleets.
Red Arremer
Member
Just about all the music in this game is amazing. The BNW expansion only expands on it (no pun intended). I can't even decide which diplomacy theme of the new set of civs I like the most.
Hells yeah. I was so excited when they announced Venice. One of my most beloved historical nations. I would've preferred if they gave the one city trait to an -actual- city state (Venice had quite an expansive territory after all), but it's cool. At least Dandolo is badass.
CyclopsRock
Member
I just started a game as Venice last night and I'm getting fucked up. I've only met 2 other civs (about 100 turns in) and one of them I haven't even found their city (just a random scout found me). As such, I can only trade with the one near me - Germany. Unfortunately, they just declared war on me. Now I'm fending them off OK, but it means I have no where to send my 8 available trade routes to except a single CS, which is shite because I'll be puppeting that soon too. As such, I'm in the bizarre situation where I'm playing as Venice yet haemorrhaging money. I need to destroy these German bastards, take their shit and get out exploring again. The barbarians are going mental making exploration very tough. I just puppeted a martitime CS though so I think it's time to send out a boat to find some new friends .
Maya guy, that's a fantastic strategy for G+K, but in BNW...
REXing means +5% tech cost per city. 15 cities means +75% - that hurts.
CB has been nerfed from 1 happiness per city to 1 happiness per TWO cities. That also hurts.
REXing means +5% tech cost per city. 15 cities means +75% - that hurts.
CB has been nerfed from 1 happiness per city to 1 happiness per TWO cities. That also hurts.
Hi guys, is it ok to promote my map here?
It's not a mod, just a collection of maps, beginning today with "Africa".
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=161025586
I'm at 1206hours on Civ5 right now... and 221hours on the SDK. I think i mastered my mapmaking talents, that's why i come out the woods with this!
There's a bug right now that make barbarians absent of those custom maps with TSL. Hope Firaxis will fix that soon.
It's not a mod, just a collection of maps, beginning today with "Africa".
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=161025586
I'm at 1206hours on Civ5 right now... and 221hours on the SDK. I think i mastered my mapmaking talents, that's why i come out the woods with this!
There's a bug right now that make barbarians absent of those custom maps with TSL. Hope Firaxis will fix that soon.
Fragamemnon
Member
That looks like a fun map, thanks for sharing!
I've played a few games with the Shoshone and here is what they want given the opportunity:
- Left side Liberty opening, capital builds pathfinder, monument, shrine, worker. Pathfinders do not pop techs, but pop ruins for culture first, then faith if you don't have a pantheon, pop if you are sure it goes to your capital that is at least size 3, else it goes into upgrade to composite bow. Once you get the free settler and the faster settler speed build policy, start spamming.
- Steal a worker from a CS, duh.
- When you find a neighbor, settle right in his damn face. Even with your first settler, plop him right down on a reasonable hill that has good resources nearby but will choke your neighbor off from further expansion. Cut them off hard and try to establish a "backfield" of territory not accessible to the AI except going through your borders, which you never open until you backfill it with cities. You actually want to go to war with your nearest neighbor. You will be right on his borders and harass him with 6-8 composite bows and crossbows until he literally has nothing left.
- When your pantheon pops, chose a religion based on terrain, since you have a lot of it. Stone quarries, desert folklore, anything like that works. You want money from your founding belief out of your religion , since you will likely need to use some caravans for food during the game. Follower beliefs should be pagodas if you can get it, then a 2nd happiness belief when you enhance.
- New cities go monument->archer, don't work tiles without exceptional yields even if you stagnate the cities in doing so. You can grow them later when you have techs like Civil Service, granaries built, and sufficient happiness to make them grow without going unhappy.Only build out enough cities depending on how many unique luxuries you can secure. Don't expand into unhappiness. Sell off excess luxuries even if it is for just 6gpt.
From there, you execute defensive wars. Level those ranged units, bait enemy units into attacking, every turn you want to be firing and killing until the enemy has nothing left. Then just surround their cities, bring a siege unit or two, and capture it. Puppet and snowball out of control from there.
I've played a few games with the Shoshone and here is what they want given the opportunity:
- Left side Liberty opening, capital builds pathfinder, monument, shrine, worker. Pathfinders do not pop techs, but pop ruins for culture first, then faith if you don't have a pantheon, pop if you are sure it goes to your capital that is at least size 3, else it goes into upgrade to composite bow. Once you get the free settler and the faster settler speed build policy, start spamming.
- Steal a worker from a CS, duh.
- When you find a neighbor, settle right in his damn face. Even with your first settler, plop him right down on a reasonable hill that has good resources nearby but will choke your neighbor off from further expansion. Cut them off hard and try to establish a "backfield" of territory not accessible to the AI except going through your borders, which you never open until you backfill it with cities. You actually want to go to war with your nearest neighbor. You will be right on his borders and harass him with 6-8 composite bows and crossbows until he literally has nothing left.
- When your pantheon pops, chose a religion based on terrain, since you have a lot of it. Stone quarries, desert folklore, anything like that works. You want money from your founding belief out of your religion , since you will likely need to use some caravans for food during the game. Follower beliefs should be pagodas if you can get it, then a 2nd happiness belief when you enhance.
- New cities go monument->archer, don't work tiles without exceptional yields even if you stagnate the cities in doing so. You can grow them later when you have techs like Civil Service, granaries built, and sufficient happiness to make them grow without going unhappy.Only build out enough cities depending on how many unique luxuries you can secure. Don't expand into unhappiness. Sell off excess luxuries even if it is for just 6gpt.
From there, you execute defensive wars. Level those ranged units, bait enemy units into attacking, every turn you want to be firing and killing until the enemy has nothing left. Then just surround their cities, bring a siege unit or two, and capture it. Puppet and snowball out of control from there.
it's working okay atm but I can't quite manage to fill the piety tree before hitting the reneissance. I did manage to bait Catherine into fighting Monty while I prep to go uni, but by the time I get full piety I probably could've just built all my unis. I am steaming ahead on the tech tree though. I also didn't REX very hard because of the aforementioned penalties and the happiness modifiers. I also ended up on one gigantic continent, despite choosing the fractal mode, so that hurts religion spread since it has to war with all these other ones.
Architechnophile
Member
Won my Venice game last night. Despite all the effort I put into a science victory, I ended up just taking the Diplomatic victory when it basically fell into my lap.
Germany decided to pile on Alexander after I took Sparta, and tried to steal Athens as my forces closed in from the other side. I managed to grab it before he did with some bomber spam, thankfully. Then Germany finished Alex off by taking a city somewhere closer to his own lands (presumably incurring all the "finish off a civilization"-related wrath).
Alexander biting the dust opened up a big void with the city states. Poland tried to fill it initially, and tried to get some silly proposal through that I didn't want. I ended up buying most of the CSs just to veto the proposal, and subsequently earned the hosting gig next time around, with the world leader vote coming up.
I'd gotten through 4 of the 6 spaceship upgrades (the Freedom ability to buy spaceship parts is a must-have for a Venice science victory, by the way) to Germany's 1, so I was on my way to winning that way. But I was also pulling in 1,100 gold per turn and, having bought almost all the relevant buildings for my cities, had noting to spend it on except city states. When the vote came around, I had about 35,000 Gold. Venice, man.
I think I'll up the difficulty to Emperor and give a cultural victory a shot. Thinkin' Brazil.
Germany decided to pile on Alexander after I took Sparta, and tried to steal Athens as my forces closed in from the other side. I managed to grab it before he did with some bomber spam, thankfully. Then Germany finished Alex off by taking a city somewhere closer to his own lands (presumably incurring all the "finish off a civilization"-related wrath).
Alexander biting the dust opened up a big void with the city states. Poland tried to fill it initially, and tried to get some silly proposal through that I didn't want. I ended up buying most of the CSs just to veto the proposal, and subsequently earned the hosting gig next time around, with the world leader vote coming up.
I'd gotten through 4 of the 6 spaceship upgrades (the Freedom ability to buy spaceship parts is a must-have for a Venice science victory, by the way) to Germany's 1, so I was on my way to winning that way. But I was also pulling in 1,100 gold per turn and, having bought almost all the relevant buildings for my cities, had noting to spend it on except city states. When the vote came around, I had about 35,000 Gold. Venice, man.
I think I'll up the difficulty to Emperor and give a cultural victory a shot. Thinkin' Brazil.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
Am I the only one who feels like a Civ noob every time Frag gives advice on playing the game? I've been playing Civ since the very first day the first one came out, hell I own it on 3.5" floppy, and yet after reading strategy advice from him I just feel like a total and complete noob to the franchise, LOL.
I pretty much just play the game and go with the flow every time. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose, but I never really use a specific strat per each civilization, I just play and adjust my long term strategy as I go, sometimes even changing goals mid-game. Which is probably why I don't really play above Emperor difficulty.
I think I need to play more often, and maybe this old dog (me) needs to learn a few new tricks...
Honestly, Civ5 was so worried about REXing that it has made controlling land nearly worthless.
Inherently foregoing the struggle to control land SHOULD be a major problem, and in civ 5, as Deity OCC wins handily prove, it isn't.
Heck, more often than not, resting at 4 cities is flat-out better than expanding, even if settlers were free; and when conquering, the option most commonly used is freaking razing a whole empire into the ground, even if there's no real risk of the place being conquered back.
For all the amazingly fun game it is, it really hates wide strategies, especially meddling wide - low-pop REX can work decently, tall work splendidly, but having a good number of differently-sized cities spread out to actually control the game's first and foremost resource - terrain - sucks.
Architechnophile
Member
Hey, if you're having fun, you're having fun, right? I've never been the type to enjoy min/maxing, myself. Totally get if others enjoy that, though - Civ is ripe for that kind of deep reading, too.
I disagree with this to be honest.
The reason science for wide empires was nerfed is because a well done ICS strategy in G&K would produce so much more science than a tall empire that by the end of the game they were miles and miles ahead. City placement and location is still important, and the necessity to get strategic resources and extra luxuries means that going above 4 cities is often helpful or needed.
ICS works just fine as does Rexing - what Civ 5 has done is make it so that it wasn't the *only* strategy you have, which has been the case in every other version of Civ to date. I personally like the choice of going tall or wide and play both styles depending upon the race.
BigJonsson
Member
Holy shit, I managed to keep Carnival! up for something like 99 out of 100 turns to end my Brazil game to win a cultural victory, was pumping 324 tourism lol
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
I think Shoshone is my new favorite civ. Such explosive starts & they can really go for just about anything.
Tradition - With a little luck early on, you can get the free monument in about as much time as it would have taken to build it from the start (allowing you to build more Pathfinders instead). Since you've hopefully also been grabbing free population increases for your capital, you should be in a very good position to do the Great Library -> National College start faster than anybody else. Once you're done with that, you should have a really nice capital that's making tons of science & you can start expanding.
Liberty - Already been talked about.
Honor - Haven't tried this personally but Pathfinders can use ruins to upgrade into the rank 2 archery units (Composite Bowman). Seems like a few of those could make for the start of a great early invasion force, especially if you get the Defense/Healing+ scout promotions before upgrading.
Piety - Seems like this would be the weakest approach but Pathfinders would make it more likely that you'll be able to get faith from ruins.
Tradition - With a little luck early on, you can get the free monument in about as much time as it would have taken to build it from the start (allowing you to build more Pathfinders instead). Since you've hopefully also been grabbing free population increases for your capital, you should be in a very good position to do the Great Library -> National College start faster than anybody else. Once you're done with that, you should have a really nice capital that's making tons of science & you can start expanding.
Liberty - Already been talked about.
Honor - Haven't tried this personally but Pathfinders can use ruins to upgrade into the rank 2 archery units (Composite Bowman). Seems like a few of those could make for the start of a great early invasion force, especially if you get the Defense/Healing+ scout promotions before upgrading.
Piety - Seems like this would be the weakest approach but Pathfinders would make it more likely that you'll be able to get faith from ruins.
Wait, what? Going tall was never an option in other Civ games, was it? At least, not in IV, IV was all about land is power. Honestly, I kind of hate how going wide is penalized so heavily to appease the players that wanted to remain competitive while turtling. I remember a lot of people complaining about how they couldn't win with a small empire in Civ IV, and that the only way to win involved at least some warring or REXing.
Makes me sad
I may just end up modding Civ V so as to make mass expansion possible again and to throw in a whole bunch of synergistic strategies.Fragamemnon
Member
You need a monstrous sized capital in Venice. You will always have a conflict between the need to run specialists and the desire to work all the tiles you can possibly work, and that conflict is only mitigated through a monster sized city. Keep in mind that you will be running 6 culture specialists, 2 science specialists, and likely some number of merchant specialists as well. Having a small city won't cut it , and big cities get built through massive food surpluses and growth bonuses (which is why I like tradition for Venice, despite Liberty having the "free" Merchant of Venice). The bonus 25% capital growth and +2 food you get from that policy tree works out to about 7 bonus food total with a +25-30 food surplus.
I generally run 2-3 water routes for just feeding Venice all game long. I like my puppets to be in the 8-12 size as well, so don't be afraid to force feed them so they can work more luxury tiles and trading posts.
Six city into oxford/lib was a common "tall strategy" in Civ IV. You would share tiles-especially cottages that needed to be worked to grow every turn-between cities but you'd eventually boom out your cities after slavery quite nicely, and your bureaucracy capital was always very large and wanted as much food as possible.
Tall is different now in Civ V, but wide is different too vs. what was wide in Civ IV. Wide strategies are still excellent in Civ V, they just require more care and finesse to pull of on higher difficulties so you don't get too far behind in science.
I fully agree that ICS has been an historical problem, but in civ5, it really isn't.
I've seen (and done) Deity turn 240 science wins with OCC, in G+K. Perhaps i'm a bad Wide player, but wide science @240 in Deity seems just about impossible, especially now.
The thing is that by playing tall, you're inherently bailing on one aspect of the game: Land struggle.
If you bail on Religion, you have to accept the negative consequences of no founder\enhancer bonuses + having to use someone else's follower\pantheon.
If you bail on Culture\Tourism, you're going to have to suffer extreme unhappiness or having to accept someone else's ideology, not to speak of not getting policies.
If you bail on any other resource, but land, you're going to have serious problems.
But bail on what, by all rights, should be the most important resource of the game, land, and you're going to be mighty fine.
Nope! I've only played since IV came out, but still, I probably have around 500 hours in IV and V combined yet Frag's posts always open my eyes to things I've never seen (that were always right in front of my face,apparently)
Loving your posts, Frag, keep it up!
I meant as not Venice. Obviously yeah as Venice the puppet states are just there to feed Venice for quite a while. Caravans cost quite a bit of production so I was wondering if anybody thought its worth blowing 7-10 turns early on to pump food from your 2nd city back to capital, or even other way around.
Red Arremer
Member
If you buy both expansions, you will have the content from both.
You can select which DLCs (including the expansions) you want to turn off specifically in the menu, standard is all on.
Raven77
Member
For a Civ newbie, would you all recommend starting with just vanilla?
You dont' really need G&Ks unless you really really want the civs/scenarios from it. All the mechanics from it are in BNW, so you're not missing much if you get that.. If you want to buy an expansion get BNW first. If at a later time you want those additional civs (leaders you play as) pony up for G&K.
Filth
Member
Red Arremer
Member
Yes.
The additional systems in G&K and BNW (Religion and Tourism/Culture respectively) are quite complex if you're completely new to the series (or genre).
Play a game or two, and once you've got a grasp of the basics, you can always spice it up with the additional systems.
Civ is making it hard for me to play all the other games in the world. Speaking not only of fun, but also time.
You have a new idea, some new adjustment to your mental flowchart, and there goes hours.
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I would recommend starting with BNW, because the new elements aren't just new stuff, but they also rebalance the games in way that a lot of what you learn without them will have to be relearned because of them. (i.e; how to best manage gold with trade routes is a different beast; how to open your game with religion is a completely new thing; how to deal with culture now that we have tourism, etc.)
Just don't be shy of starting on the lower difficulties, just to experience the cause and effect of some decisions.
You have a new idea, some new adjustment to your mental flowchart, and there goes hours.
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I would recommend starting with BNW, because the new elements aren't just new stuff, but they also rebalance the games in way that a lot of what you learn without them will have to be relearned because of them. (i.e; how to best manage gold with trade routes is a different beast; how to open your game with religion is a completely new thing; how to deal with culture now that we have tourism, etc.)
Just don't be shy of starting on the lower difficulties, just to experience the cause and effect of some decisions.
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
My game now is heavy political with this, lol. IT is great having to open up those diplomatic screens every turn and scrambling to see what I nee to do for city state support. I wuv dis game.
It is crazy that the only other games I have played since I got it are other endlessly playable games. I have a multiplayer game of Endless Space going. It is turning out to be a pretty good 4X game and I hadn't really ever paid any attention to it. Really aggressive AI. Then I got Eador: Masters of the Broken World which is basically Heroes of Might and Magic. That also has turned out to be pretty good. Also, DOTA2.
Red Arremer
Member
That is true, I think there's 2 ways of looking at it.
Personally, I would be scared of the Religion and Tourism systems, I just wanna figure out basic stuff first, but if you think you can handle it, I would suggest going for starting with BNW right out the gate.
I didn't know Religion was included in BNW, so yeah, I would go with just BNW and buy G&K only if you want the additional scenarios/factions.
With that said, if you are looking what single DLC pieces you'd want to get, I HEAVILY suggest getting the Korea DLC. Not only is Korea a really good science-focused civ (something that is not very common in this game), the scenario is also hands down one of the best in the game.
I recently got Endless Space too. I haven't gotten around continuing my game, but it's a really solid 4X game indeed. Reminds me a LOT of MoO2.
Never heard of that one, I'll have to look that up. Thanks for dropping that name haha. I love finding new round-based strategy games, and both the HoMM and Age of Wonders series are among my favorites.
Ever looked into Warlock - Masters of the Arcane? That one is a game in that style as well, and pretty good.
Edit: Actually, I heard of it, it is on my Steam wishlist as a matter of fact, haha. It must've been in a bulk I added. It looks really neat.
ManUtdRedDevils
Member
I'm a beginner and started with BNW. While I am struggling on understanding how certain systems work like religion, I rather jump in the deep end with the complete experience.
Man the Germans are dicks.
Man the Germans are dicks.
Red Arremer
Member
Wait until you play vs. Gandhi.
Architechnophile
Member
I believe so. I don't think they're any different than regular old social policies.
Yes. They are like social policies, not like religion.
I got endless space too and messed around a little. What I found it "too hardcore" for me is that, apart from the most basic starting ones, you have to design all the ships yourself. So there's no "new units", only new stuff you use to design new ships. I find it takes micromanaging one step too far.
Aside from that, I think it is very solid; when Civ releases me from its grip, I'll definetly go there.
I was such a dick in my game. As alexander I controlled the world congress with an iron fist. Made everyone become order (because I'd get 30% tourism bonus over any order that's less happy than me). Then I put a tax on army units, which squashed any chance of people doing anything military agains me (I had *no* military units). Though pretty much the whole game everyone played nicely with each other. Briefly Brazil picked a fight with me, but he pissed a bunch others off at the same time which didn't turn out so well with him.
Though with all my Civ playthroughs I burn out quick. I was up until 6 am in the morning playing.
Though with all my Civ playthroughs I burn out quick. I was up until 6 am in the morning playing.
Gandhi is such an asshole. Builds cities right in the middle of my empire, complains about close boarders, tells me not to settle near his territory, declares war.
Fiddlesticks. I thought I was so clever for getting all the low level tenets.
Red Arremer
Member
I actually agree, and that kinda threw me off at first.
Most space 4X games also have the ship-building aspect to them, but most of them at least provide you with a basic ship of the respective class that you can use as well, which makes learning the game much easier - you can get a hold of the basics of the game while also leaving out certain aspects that are VERY difficult to understand yet.
Masters of Orion 2 had the system I'm describing, but Endless Space doesn't, and it also has a much more complex combat system, with those tactics cards and weapon types seemingly making a difference.
Sounds like every Brazilian on the internet.
Fragamemnon
Member
Endless Space has ship customization for a reason-you have branching weapons and armor technology paths that all exploit and counter the other path. So instead of having ranged units, melee units, mounted units, you have a generic framework to build you own specific counter unit.
It's more detailed but I didn't think it was at all overwhelming. Then again I play GalCiv2 with a similar customization system on masochist.
It's more detailed but I didn't think it was at all overwhelming. Then again I play GalCiv2 with a similar customization system on masochist.
I literally did the same thing as Venice.
Don't feel like buying military units? raise taxes so other people can't afford then
Feel like making other civilisations miserable? Pass world ideology, get free cities. And then raze them!
Fragamemnon
Member
Short answer: If you have the happiness to spare, and you have the quality tiles for the city to work, then you should be choosing food over money most of the time, even if it is a land route. It only starts to get kind of iffy in that regard once you hit the late industrial era.
Generally speaking you can easily "make up" most of the profit from early trade routes through city connection income IF your capital is growing fast enough by caravaning food back to it.
I have had strong success with two city tradition into national college openings where I use a caravan to help feed my capital that is built very early.