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[Fragamemnon]

thanks for anyone who stopped by for the stream. I messed up on the peace deal at turn 98, but this is going to be a turn 102 national college off five cities with a conquered capital. I don't think that Poland could really get me if I can get enough bank to buy off Vancouver and I can consolidate for a run at a tech win if the AI doesn't go rationalism. My cities will be a lot better with some help but i am so behind in scouting and culture that I am going to be in big trouble later on.

The early stuff near Cusco is a real nailbiter, but really when you have a city plopped next to you by turn 6 or so four spaces away against a known honor AI I was uggghh and basically played super sloppy and completely throwaway. I couldn't believe Harold's composite bow production there at the end-thankfully catapults put an end to his fun.

This is the first time I streamed-I am going to set up a separate space soon away from my wife (who is in the room, and was probably annoyed by my chatter) so I can marathon this stuff.

 

[Boss Doggie]

I thought Babylon is also good if only because you can spam GS easily.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Bah, anyone wanna help me with the Louvre achievement as France?

I already placed 2 artifacts (Classical/French, Ancient/Aztec) and 2 arts (Medieval/Ottomans, Industrial/Egyptian) but I still only get +8. How do I make it +16?

 

[Myomoto]

Bah, anyone wanna help me with the Louvre achievement as France?

I already placed 2 artifacts (Classical/French, Ancient/Aztec) and 2 arts (Medieval/Ottomans, Industrial/Egyptian) but I still only get +8. How do I make it +16?

Aesthetics social policy tree? Filling it out doubles themeing bonuses.

 

[Rooster]

This expansion seems to have made playing on deity even more ridiculous.

 

[Psychoward]

I thought Babylon is also good if only because you can spam GS easily.

Speaking of that, is the preferred way to use GS to build academies? It seems like that's the thing to do, but I usually go for the instant technology boost.

 

[AnotherNils]

Lord, I started my 3rd game last night, bumped up the difficulty to Prince. Figure I could handle it if I warmonger (My first two wins were science).

As Dido I run into England and The Huns early on. Start expanding and after getting a free upgrade to my Warriors, being able to create the UU ship, and cranking out some archers (and upgrading them) I make a move on the City-State above me. Big mistake. The three units barely make a dent and I end up retreating. I refocus on solidifying my hold on the lands by settling a mountain passage.

Before turn 50 Elizabeth decides I'm weak (rightfully so) and attacks my strategic position in the mountains. I scramble my forces to defend her onslaught and do pretty well, wiping out or crippling most of her forces, sending her into retreat, with nary a casualty. Unfortunately, during this time Attila smelled blood in the water and also declares.

I had also settled a second strategic position on the mountain range near The Huns and Attila sends his forces on a simultaneous run at both positions. At this point my empire is teetering with negative gold output and slight unhappiness. Thanks to Elizabeth I have several units in the pipe, but they can't get into position early enough to prevent my second position from being taken by The Hun's battering ram and razed.

In retreat, Elizabeth accepts making peace (and threw in some gold I desperately needed as well.). I push The Huns out of the first border city and back within their borders. I try to push further but when it becomes obvious it will be a long bloody conflict just to take one city I sit outside his borders and just pick off his forces until he acquiesces to peace.

At this point my cities are near starvation, unhappy, and I'm bleeding gold each turn from all the forces I cranked out. Several of my tiles have been razed so I set about fixing them, resettling my second strat position, and producing buildings to stabilize the empires happiness.

With all the focus on the wars I also didn't have time to enhance my gold or science output leaving me crippled. I spend the next 50 turns trying to right the ship, keeping my forces on the borders to discourage any treachery. It takes me too long to achieve equilibrium and while I am very high on score I don't feel very strong. Then Attila betrays me and declares again. My mild anger turns into terror as he rolls out a vast army to march on my cities.

That's pretty much where I am now. I'm waiting for Elizabeth to pounce as well. I haven't lost any cities yet, but even if I survive (I won't) I don't see how I won't be even more crippled and basically out of the running. Damned warmongers!

 

[Boss Doggie]

Aesthetics social policy tree? Filling it out doubles themeing bonuses.

Ahh whoops, forgot to do that lol

That's a specific bonus right, not the "fill whole aesthetics" bonus?

 

[spiritfox]

Ahh whoops, forgot to do that lol

That's a specific bonus right, not the "fill whole aesthetics" bonus?

It's a finisher, so the second one.

 

[Danj]

Got my new gaming PC built yesterday, looking forward to playing some of this tonight.

 

[Meteorain]

Lord, I started my 3rd game last night, bumped up the difficulty to Prince. Figure I could handle it if I warmonger (My first two wins were science).

As Dido I run into England and The Huns early on. Start expanding and after getting a free upgrade to my Warriors, being able to create the UU ship, and cranking out some archers (and upgrading them) I make a move on the City-State above me. Big mistake. The three units barely make a dent and I end up retreating. I refocus on solidifying my hold on the lands by settling a mountain passage.

Before turn 50 Elizabeth decides I'm weak (rightfully so) and attacks my strategic position in the mountains. I scramble my forces to defend her onslaught and do pretty well, wiping out or crippling most of her forces, sending her into retreat, with nary a casualty. Unfortunately, during this time Attila smelled blood in the water and also declares.

I had also settled a second strategic position on the mountain range near The Huns and Attila sends his forces on a simultaneous run at both positions. At this point my empire is teetering with negative gold output and slight unhappiness. Thanks to Elizabeth I have several units in the pipe, but they can't get into position early enough to prevent my second position from being taken by The Hun's battering ram and razed.

In retreat, Elizabeth accepts making peace (and threw in some gold I desperately needed as well.). I push The Huns out of the first border city and back within their borders. I try to push further but when it becomes obvious it will be a long bloody conflict just to take one city I sit outside his borders and just pick off his forces until he acquiesces to peace.

At this point my cities are near starvation, unhappy, and I'm bleeding gold each turn from all the forces I cranked out. Several of my tiles have been razed so I set about fixing them, resettling my second strat position, and producing buildings to stabilize the empires happiness.

With all the focus on the wars I also didn't have time to enhance my gold or science output leaving me crippled. I spend the next 50 turns trying to right the ship, keeping my forces on the borders to discourage any treachery. It takes me too long to achieve equilibrium and while I am very high on score I don't feel very strong. Then Attila betrays me and declares again. My mild anger turns into terror as he rolls out a vast army to march on my cities.

That's pretty much where I am now. I'm waiting for Elizabeth to pounce as well. I haven't lost any cities yet, but even if I survive (I won't) I don't see how I won't be even more crippled and basically out of the running. Damned warmongers!

Try and get some trade routes ip with Elizabeth. Also exchange embassies. Then try and get some luxury swaps with her.

If you fight smart it will be hard for Atilla to do much, since the AI is awful at war. Get archers. They are excellent for defending positions. Keep your melee units on reinforce/guard whilst the range pick them off. That way you don't lose ground and have a sort of human shield against his units.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Speaking of that, is the preferred way to use GS to build academies? It seems like that's the thing to do, but I usually go for the instant technology boost.

Depends really. Early on they're good for tech grabbing but later on when you have revealed most resources it's better to turn them into academies. By that point you'd be rolling in techs anyway.

Also kinda sucks only 2 civs are science focused.

It's a finisher, so the second one.

Ah so in a sense it's a selectable bonus but because it's at the end it works like that lol

 

[InertiaXr]

Can you only take enemy workers/settlers with melee units? I was about to take my customary early game CS worker but I guess I've always done it with a scout, I went to take it with a C. Bowmen and he started firing at the worker. :/

Edit: Nevermind, right clicking on worker just makes my guy automatically attack, if I use the special 'move' command it works just fine. >_<

 

[AnotherNils]

Try and get some trade routes ip with Elizabeth. Also exchange embassies. Then try and get some luxury swaps with her.

Well, I don't have BNW, just G&K. I did (and do again) have embassies and a luxury swap.

If you fight smart it will be hard for Atilla to do much, since the AI is awful at war. Get archers. They are excellent for defending positions. Keep your melee units on reinforce/guard whilst the range pick them off. That way you don't lose ground and have a sort of human shield against his units.

Well, I've already done a few rounds and lost most of my melee units (Elephants). My north city is almost down and they're starting to workover my south city, which has been completely surrounded.

The biggest problem is my units haven't been upgraded since the first war while most of his have (in addition to the swelling in size of his army). I'm simply outclassed and outmanned without the production make up for it this time round.

 

[Meteorain]

Well, I don't have BNW, just G&K. I did (and do again) have embassies and a luxury swap.

Well, I've already done a few rounds and lost most of my melee units (Elephants). My north city is almost down and they're starting to workover my south city, which has been completely surrounded.

The biggest problem is my units haven't been upgraded since the first war while most of his have (in addition to the swelling in size of his army). I'm simply outclassed and outmanned without the production make up for it this time round.

All I can say really is that you can try and tough it out by rotating units onto your city so that they heal/protected and just try and annoy him as much ad possible by building stuff.

It does seem like your stuffed though. Your lesson learnt being that you should always try and have a solid standing army. Also the most important feature is your economy. Making money brings in everything else. Always save up gold so that you can buy units in dire situations like the one you just had. Don't waste it on anything else until you have a sizeable coffer.

 

[AnotherNils]

All I can say really is that you can try and tough it out by rotating units onto your city so that they heal/protected and just try and annoy him as much ad possible by building stuff.

Oh I know I'm stuffed. Even if I'm not, between my inexperience and just being devastated I don't think I have the will to pull it off.

Your lesson learnt being that you should always try and have a solid standing army. Also the most important feature is your economy. Making money brings in everything else. Always save up gold so that you can buy units in dire situations like the one you just had. Don't waste it on anything else until you have a sizeable coffer.

That's three things!

But yeah, I know I've been playing fire my first two games as I focused primarily on science to the detriment of my army which I would usually start building up once I became seafaring.

I also think I caught a little bad luck, as I bordered three empires last game and none of them gave me any trouble.

 

[Meteorain]

Oh I know I'm stuffed. Even if I'm not, between my inexperience and just being devastated I don't think I have the will to pull it off.



That's three things!

But yeah, I know I've been playing fire my first two games as I focused primarily on science to the detriment of my army which I would usually start building up once I became seafaring.

I also think I caught a little bad luck, as I bordered three empires last game and none of them gave me any trouble.

The way to deal with that is to have a city dedicated to production; one that has high production compared to others. Then periodically check the rankings to see where your army ranks and also check with the military advisor to see your army compared to your neighbours. If they are around the same then you should be fine.

 

[AnotherNils]

The way to deal with that is to have a city dedicated to production; one that has high production compared to others. Then periodically check the rankings to see where your army ranks and also check with the military advisor to see your army compared to your neighbours. If they are around the same then you should be fine.

I like checking the ranking but sometime so get caught up and forget. It'd be nice if it'd give a prompt on the right for when you moved up or down rankings (like city-state updates).

 

[Trigger]

I like checking the ranking but sometime so get caught up and forget. It'd be nice if it'd give a prompt on the left for when you moved up or down rankings.

The InfoAddict mod can give you that information.

 

[Meteorain]

The InfoAddict mod can give you that information.

b-bu-bu-but CHEATING!!

 

[DSmalls84]

Oh I know I'm stuffed. Even if I'm not, between my inexperience and just being devastated I don't think I have the will to pull it off.



That's three things!

But yeah, I know I've been playing fire my first two games as I focused primarily on science to the detriment of my army which I would usually start building up once I became seafaring.

I also think I caught a little bad luck, as I bordered three empires last game and none of them gave me any trouble.

If you ally yourself with military City-States they will usually provide you with enough quality units to defend your cities and act as a deterrent. For most of my games I usually rely on this and only produce my own units in emergency situations or when I decide I want to go on the offensive. Works well on prince at least.

Edit: Also if you choose the Freedom ideaology there is a tenet that nets you 25 influence for every unit you gift to a CS. That also works pretty well in this kind of a situation.

 

[Fragamemnon]

I'm still giggling to myself about that game I streamed last night. Hilarious stuff. I had too many workers at one point and never ever actually built one.

This expansion seems to have made playing on deity even more ridiculous.

On the other hand I think it's actually easier. It's harder early on, but the AI's tech rate goes right into the toilet later on in the game. They get Manhattan like late 200s/early 300s now when you are getting XCOM squads.

 

[Trigger]

b-bu-bu-but CHEATING!!

Fuck the rules!

 

[Jintor]

Learning that you can't play Lackadaisically on a large map with now peaceful civs largely not warring with one another and dragging some down on King is a humbling experience. Had my first taste of being on the wrong end of a tech arms race. Thankfully Austria doesn't appear to be an aggressive civ, and I managed to archer spam the shit out of Carthage when they were fielding knights and musketmen against my crossbows, but still. Terrifying.

To add to the indignity, the Iroquai got the world congress first somehow. I hate when leaders turn up and you don't know where you saw them. Guess I'm going to need an actual strategy for my next game... any advice for a newbie who normally just goes with what seems cool? Need some build orders...

 

[Fragamemnon]

To add to the indignity, the Iroquai got the world congress first somehow. I hate when leaders turn up and you don't know where you saw them. Guess I'm going to need an actual strategy for my next game... any advice for a newbie who normally just goes with what seems cool? Need some build orders...

Can it wait for later on this evening ? I am going to stream tutorial and post to youtube four city liberty and three city tradition openings on Immortal difficultly tonight.

 

[roddur]

how do you bully a CS? i never actually bothered bullying anybody so i didn't pay attention. now i want to do that but the 2 options to bully a CS are disabled every time i try.

 

[Fragamemnon]

how do you bully a CS? i never actually bothered bullying anybody so i didn't pay attention. now i want to do that but the 2 options to bully a CS are disabled every time i try.

move your army near it. If you have enough forces their influence bar will turn orange.

 

[Rentahamster]

Example of the Volunteer Army rush. ololol (Immortal). Since I'm Assyria, it's time to grab some techs and wonders.

 

[roddur]

move your army near it. If you have enough forces their influence bar will turn orange.

really! while playing it's almost every time a distant CS wants me to bully another distant CS

 

[Fragamemnon]

You have more combat power in one of those legions than the korean capital. Crazy.

That being said, Freedom's a huge trap on Deity due to huge AIs and their wonder spam and legions aren't THAT much better than rifles and you should have rifling before getting three Freedom policies even if you are the first adopter.

really! while playing it's almost every time a distant CS wants me to bully another distant CS

Yeah, those are a pain. It's actually quite hard to get a big enough army on high difficultly to bully a CS.

 

[roddur]

You have more combat power in one of those legions than the korean capital. Crazy.

i think the power comparison is in between legion and pikeman.

 

[Esch]

Volunteer Army is incredibly powerful. I timed it last night to give me a unit push right as I was getting plotted against. Poor Isabella made the decision to attack anyway.

Also I seem to have trouble picking anything but Freedom. It just sounds so great. FREEDOM! I haven't played an Order or Autocracy game yet.

 

[CoconutTank]

Volunteer Army is incredibly powerful. I timed it last night to give me a unit push right as I was getting plotted against. Poor Isabella made the decision to attack anyway.

Also I seem to have trouble picking anything but Freedom. It just sounds so great. FREEDOM! I haven't played an Order or Autocracy game yet.

Autocracy has some of the best tier 2 tenets in the game and some of the most unsatisfying tier 3 tenets imo. It depends on what one wants to do, but for warmongering, it's hard to go wrong with Lightning Warfare + Total War + Nationalism + Third Alternative. Assuming you have Commerce and have built the Big Ben (which imo is mandatory for any kind of war campaign), getting the above 4 tenets with it should let you stomp civs pretty quickly.

The problem is that, as I said, the tier 3 tenets for Autocracy aren't really interesting. Only Clausewitz's Legacy does something that's generally good for warmongering, and that's unfortunately on a time limit. Cult of Personality relies on you being allied to another civ (which is probably not going to last long if you want to do any long term warmongering) and Gunship Diplomacy is kind of lame for warmongering as well (CS bonuses are cool, having to leave units stationed by CSes is not).

As for tier 1 Autocracy tenets, Mobilization is often a first pick tenet for me, after that I guess United Front is a good choice.

 

[Rentahamster]

i think the power comparison is in between legion and pikeman.

No, he's right. Foreign Legion strength is 42, Seoul's strength is 38.

 

[BigJonsson]

Picking up the 25% to combat strength for 50 turns is an awesome way to finish a domination game

 

[Boss Doggie]

Are Foreign Legion worth spawning? Do they cost army tax?

 

[Rentahamster]

Are Foreign Legion worth spawning? Do they cost army tax?

They're free, and if you get them out quickly enough, they can be up to one or two techs ahead of whatever anyone else has.

 

[Esch]

Are Foreign Legion worth spawning? Do they cost army tax?

Free. And i got them when the opponent was juuust about to get riflemen. So not too bad.

 

[Herbert Moon]

This may be a really dumb question, but where can I find the maximum number of trade routes I can have at a given time?
I realize I can go into the trade overview to see all available trade routes, but I'm not seeing my trade limit anywhere.

 

[TriniTrin]

This may be a really dumb question, but where can I find the maximum number of trade routes I can have at a given time?
I realize I can go into the trade overview to see all available trade routes, but I'm not seeing my trade limit anywhere.

i think there is a counter that say 0/7 or however many trade routes you can currently make. This is at the top of the UI, see below it says 4/5

 

[Herbert Moon]

i think there is a counter that say 0/7 or however many trade routes you can currently make. This is at the top of the UI, see below it says 4/5

Ohh man, thanks for that. The answer was so obvious it's on the main UI.

 

[InertiaXr]

Does anybody ever actually make a Customs House with a great merchant? Putting one down right now would give 4gpt while I'm only a few techs away from trade posts giving 2gpt themselves....it seems like a really bad improvement compared to a trade mission in a city state.

 

[DopeyFish]

Napoleon calls me up and asks a ridiculous amount of stuff including wanting me to vote no for natural wonders. (I refuse)

Next turn? Calls me up how pleased he is with my proposal (natural wonders)

Then he tells me china is plotting against me (after I liberated 3 of their cities?) then the next turn china offers defensive pact

Napoleon is a dirty liar.

 

[Haly]

Napoleon calls me up and asks a ridiculous amount of stuff including wanting me to vote no for natural wonders. (I refuse)

Next turn? Calls me up how pleased he is with my proposal (natural wonders)

Then he tells me china is plotting against me (after I liberated 3 of their cities?) then the next turn china offers defensive pact

Napoleon is a dirty liar.

Can't trust the French.

 

[CoconutTank]

Does anybody ever actually make a Customs House with a great merchant? Putting one down right now would give 4gpt while I'm only a few techs away from trade posts giving 2gpt themselves....it seems like a really bad improvement compared to a trade mission in a city state.

I uh, I've been in situations in which I haven't really scouted very far, haven't found a city state and spawned a Great Merchant In this case I usually put down a Customs House if I'm hurting for gold, which is fairly likely early on in the game.

In the grand scheme of things, a Customs House can benefit from a variety of modifiers. Golden Age, gold multipliers from some buildings and some techs help Customs Houses give more gold. Trade posts also benefit from the same things, but they start at +1 gold while Customs Houses start at +4 gold.

 

[Malmorian]

Can't trust the French.

All the time this. I don't know what it's like for other people but my Napoleon is always a dick.

 

[TriniTrin]

Does anybody ever actually make a Customs House with a great merchant? Putting one down right now would give 4gpt while I'm only a few techs away from trade posts giving 2gpt themselves....it seems like a really bad improvement compared to a trade mission in a city state.

Does it stack on tiles that give gold without improvements? Like deer or something?

 

[Boss Doggie]

Napoleon, Montezuma and Isabella are backstabbers.

 

[Jintor]

Dido also.

Polish guy warned me about her plot. He'd be my bro if he weren't so depressingly neutral

 

[Psychoward]

All the time this. I don't know what it's like for other people but my Napoleon is always a dick.

Haven't encountered him in BNW yet, but both in Gods and Kings and Vanilla Napoleon was a total bro for me.