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[Dreez]

Kid sees cops, knows he's in trouble & wants to give up the bb gun/show it's fake. As a 12 year old he probably didn't know any better how to act around cops. Cop kills him.



at least that's my explanation how this could've happened. unless this kid's advanced and wanted to suicide by cop.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

The only thing I would even maybe put on the parents is they probably didn't give him the talk that most of us get about cops

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

The value of black lives is zero in this country to an overwhelming number of people living in it.

And some of you are tripping over yourselves to prove it.

I would say I hope you never have to experience what it's like to have someone stolen from you like that, but I imagine that the majority of you ever will, because you don't fit the description.

Some of the posts I've read in this thread have made me sick to my stomach. Shame on you and your justifications and apologist reasoning for this event.

Shame on you.

Pretty much.

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

That happened in Canada, just FYI. The US police culture/force is, 99 out of 100 times, not going to react with a taser to a gun.

There's an Albuquerque in Canada?

 

[just tray]

Sad,sad story. Cops have killed over 5000 people since 9/11. Not all of those killed carried toy guns. Some were in the back of a cop car. Others had their back turned.

When Americans stop defending a heavily militarized police force and when cops are required to carry cameras on there persona. When cops are no longer given paid vacations for murder, when the police learn how to police their own, when cops are held to the same standards and expected to abide by the same laws that we do.

Then police misconduct will end.

 

[linsivvi]

Even if the police are willing to be racially unbiased, having a youth culture raised on Hip-Hop songs like "Fuck Tha Police" which espouse how untrustworthy the police are and how street life is what's "real" isn't going to help god-damned anyone.

We've got thirty years of Hip Hop artists claiming the police aren't trustworthy and praising the virtues of street life and Money Over Everything. Obviously it's not something that can be definitely proven or disproven on an internet forum, but pretending it's not a factor would be idiotic.

 

[Random Painted HIghway]

So no offense, as I know not everyone had the minority experience, but the fact that you asked this speaks volumes.

No offense taken, I was merely asking you a hypo based on your hypo, reading into my question to you is a mistake. You made the purposeful decision to add the gender variable to the race variable and I was curious as to your thoughts further variations. Personally, i can't think of any stories of cops either validly or unlawfully shooting young females (say between 12-18) of any race. I assume by your response that you can? Admittedly, unless something hits here on GAF or the local or national news, I wouldn't have heard of it.

Edit: no response to this, eh? Bummer.

 

[just tray]

It's not even necessarily racially motivated. This could happen to anyone. You ever notice how the story after a shooting is the same?
"I feared for my life."
"I was acting in self defense."
"They had a gun."
"They reached in their pocket."
"They had a criminal record."
Etc. Same story different precinct.

They are killing everyone that dares to stand behind their constitutional rights. Due process? Cops have taken on the form of judge, jury, and executioner.

 

[Jest Chillin]

So basically the cop makes the cool then an investigation happens to determine if the cop made the right one. I thought so. Still doesn't explain people itt auto assuming that the call he made was justified considering different cops would have made different decisions.

A different officer making a different decision doesn't necessarily make this officers decision wrong given the rules that police have for firing on a suspect.

This is a really poor analogy but it's the only way I can express it. Police in the US basically have a Stand Your Ground that applies to them. If they feel that life is being threatened, they can shoot a suspect. There's more intricacies to it than that, I'm sure, but that's the best way I can try to explain it. If your Uncle is or was a Police Officer in the US, he'd be able to explain it better.

 

[Blood Diamonds]

A different officer making a different decision doesn't necessarily make this officers decision wrong given the rules that police have for firing on a suspect.

This is a really poor analogy but it's the only way I can express it. Police in the US basically have a Stand Your Ground that applies to them. If they feel that life is being threatened, they can shoot a suspect. There's more intricacies to it than that, I'm sure, but that's the best way I can try to explain it. If your Uncle is or was a Police Officer in the US, he'd be able to explain it better.

he killed a 12 year old boy
that's wrong
like, the kid didn't even threaten him. there was nothing to "stand your ground" about

 

[KHarvey16]

Cops have taken on the form of judge, jury, and executioner.

More confusing the issue by discussing it as punishment.

 

[Pickles Spill]

he killed a 12 year old boy
that's wrong
like, the kid didn't even threaten him. there was nothing to "stand your ground" about

The kid pulled a gun (or something that looked very much like it) out of his waist belt. The officer felt very threatened. The officer reacted. When a cop asks you to raise up your hands, and you go for the gun in your waist belt, the officer is going to feel threatened because
1) You're not following orders
2) No only are you not following orders, you're directly going for a gun
The reaching for a gun is the threatening part.

 

[Rembrandt]

The kid pulled a gun (or something that looked very much like it) out of his waist belt. The officer felt very threatened. The officer reacted. When a cop asks you to raise up your hands, and you go for the gun in your waist belt, the officer is going to feel threatened because
1) You're not following orders
2) No only are you not following orders, you're directly going for a gun
The reaching for a gun is the threatening part.

He was fucking 12. Come on. Sure, he could have been a threat, but realistically?

 

[Chie Satonaka]

The kid pulled a gun (or something that looked very much like it) out of his waist belt. The officer felt very threatened. The officer reacted. When a cop asks you to raise up your hands, and you go for the gun in your waist belt, the officer is going to feel threatened because
1) You're not following orders
2) No only are you not following orders, you're directly going for a gun
The reaching for a gun is the threatening part.

Therefore, your life is forfeit.

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

The kid pulled a gun (or something that looked very much like it) out of his waist belt. The officer felt very threatened. The officer reacted. When a cop asks you to raise up your hands, and you go for the gun in your waist belt, the officer is going to feel threatened because
1) You're not following orders
2) No only are you not following orders, you're directly going for a gun
The reaching for a gun is the threatening part.

On the first page in the dang story.

Tomba said the child did not threaten the officer verbally or physically

Smh at this thread.

edit: Thank you rem and chie

dbl edit: Man you guys are right. People are bending over backwards to show how much of a screw up this kid was and how the officer was in the right. Again if the objective facts and police procedure only matter then he would have been justified in shooting and killing a white girl in the same circumstance. We all know that he wouldn't have. When you understand why he wouldn't have shot a white girl then you are starting to understand.

 

[Blood Diamonds]

The kid pulled a gun (or something that looked very much like it) out of his waist belt. The officer felt very threatened. The officer reacted. When a cop asks you to raise up your hands, and you go for the gun in your waist belt, the officer is going to feel threatened because
1) You're not following orders
2) No only are you not following orders, you're directly going for a gun
The reaching for a gun is the threatening part.

Yes, the officer was very scared. Therefore, the officer shot a 12 year old because he was very very scared. 12 year old boy did not follow orders so it's okay that he was shot and killed. Great.
All you have to do is say you felt "threatened" and you can get away with murder. Cool.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Artist's rendition of 12 year old black child

I'm just tired, now in the "laugh or cry" phase

 

[antonz]

Therefore, your life is forfeit.

If you are told to raise your hands in the air where they can be seen and you like a dumb ass go and instead grab a gun from your waist then yes you have opted to risk being put into the ground.

 

[KHarvey16]

Yes, the officer was very scared. Therefore, the officer shot a 12 year old because he was very very scared. 12 year old boy did not follow orders therefore it's okay that he was shot and killed. Great.
All you have to do is say you felt "threatened" and you can get away with murder. Cool.

Legally if you feel threatened it isn't murder. And that certainly doesn't only apply to police.

 

[Zaku]

He was fucking 12. Come on. Sure, he could have been a threat, but realistically?

Yes, the officer was very scared. Therefore, the officer shot a 12 year old because he was very very scared. 12 year old boy did not follow orders therefore it's okay that he was shot and killed. Great.
All you have to do is say you felt "threatened" and you can get away with murder. Cool.

Yeah, everybody knows twelve-year-olds have crappy aim. If he wants to fire off a few rounds, let him fire off a few rounds. Not like he can hit anything or be a threat to anyone.

Man, it's easy to armchair quarterback.

 

[Jest Chillin]

he killed a 12 year old boy
that's wrong
like, the kid didn't even threaten him. there was nothing to "stand your ground" about

If you were reading the line of discussion that I was having at the time, it was about "procedure." My post, was an attempt to explain why people are saying that it was "procedure" for the officer to fire on the child when he reached for the gun. The discussion was about rules and regulations, not about moral implications.

 

[KHarvey16]

Artist's rendition of 12 year old black child

I'm just tired, now in the "laugh or cry" phase

This is ironic for reasons anyone who watched the show would understand.

 

[Blood Diamonds]

Legally if you feel threatened it isn't murder. And that certainly doesn't only apply to police.

Oh I'm sorry, I forgot that it applies to all white people too. My apologies.

 

[Jawbreaker]

So what genre of music contributes to white people and their distrust of the police? Because there are plenty of white people who hate cops and I doubt they've received the same treatment as black people.

Punk music, actually. Having been around the punk scene in NYC and experienced police abusing their power myself/straight up beating kids up. The major difference I think is that anti-authoritarian/police punk music isn't mainstream. However, dressing in punk fashion normally invites police to mistreat people and distrust them. The major difference is black people can't just change their skin color, of course. My parents are from the Spanish-speaking Caribbean so I have pretty tan skin, but I can't even imagine what a black person has to deal with if white punks are treated like shit. I bet having dark skin and a fitted/hoodie/jewelry puts cops on edge due to their latent racism and inherent inequality in the system.

 

[KHarvey16]

Oh I'm sorry, I forgot that it applies to all white people too. My apologies.

This is the problem with these discussions: people like you don't want one.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

This is ironic for reasons anyone who watched the show would understand.

Yeah that's actually kind of why I chose it

And yes bsb, I know that's what he looks like; I actually read what's in posted links

 

[Rembrandt]

Yeah, everybody knows twelve-year-olds have crappy aim. If he wants to fire off a few rounds, let him fire off a few rounds. Not like he can hit anything or be a threat to anyone.

Man, it's easy to armchair quarterback.

The kid didn't threaten the cops so why was shooting him an immediate reaction? Two guns pointed at him would have been more than enough unless you really think this kid was suicidal enough to not get the message and aim it at police. But whatever.

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

This is the problem with these discussions: people like you don't want one.

People who don't want one are on both sides of this discussion. I mean look at this thread. It's a mess.

 

[Blood Diamonds]

This is the problem with these discussions: people like you don't want one.

Have your discussion with someone else.

 

[Pickles Spill]

The kid didn't threaten the cops so why was shooting him an immediate reaction? Two guns pointed at him would have been more than enough unless you really think this kid was suicidal enough to not get the message and aim it at police. But whatever.

But the kid did threaten the cops by going for the "gun" when they explicitly told him to put his hands up.

 

[Kozak]

I once pointed a real looking Uzi pellet-gun at an officer when I was younger. Can't give the exact age but anywhere between 8-11.

It didn't have an orange tip.

The officer came over to my mum and told me that it looked threatening and to not use it in public.

That was that.

No excuse to shoot a 12 year old kid even if he has a gun that looks real. Just stop and taking a second to think why a 12 year old kid would have a gun.

But the kid did threaten the cops by going for the "gun" when they explicitly told him to put his hands up.

So obviously the smartest thing to do was shoot the kid. This is a kid we're talking about. You were once one.

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

But the kid did threaten the cops by going for the "gun" when they explicitly told him to put his hands up.

You conveniently ignore my post. That's ok.

Tomba said the child did not threaten the officer verbally or physically

 

[KHarvey16]

Have your discussion with someone else.

Your attitude here sucks and I wish people acting like you didn't participate in threads. It adds nothing and destroys actual useful discourse.

 

[zhorkat]

Why immediately tell the kid to put his hands up? Because the 12 year old kid that has been playing with the gun you think is real for some period of time before you got there might suddenly start shooting people?

 

[Enzom21]

Yeah, everybody knows twelve-year-olds have crappy aim. If he wants to fire off a few rounds, let him fire off a few rounds. Not like he can hit anything or be a threat to anyone.

Man, it's easy to armchair quarterback.

So are you going to tell me the genre of music that inspires distrust of police for white people or do you think white people aren't as easily influenced by music?

Punk music, actually. Having been around the punk scene in NYC and experienced police abusing their power myself/straight up beating kids up. The major difference I think is that anti-authoritarian/police punk music isn't mainstream. However, dressing in punk fashion normally invites police to mistreat people and distrust them. The major difference is black people can't just change their skin color, of course. My parents are from the Spanish-speaking Caribbean so I have pretty tan skin, but I can't even imagine what a black person has to deal with if white punks are treated like shit. I bet having dark skin and a fitted/hoodie/jewelry puts cops on edge due to their latent racism and inherent inequality in the system.

I doubt white people in militias listen to much punk music and those wackjobs hate police.

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

I once pointed a real looking Uzi pellet-gun at an officer when I was younger. Can't give the exact age but anywhere between 8-11.

It didn't have an orange tip.

The officer came over to my mum and told me that it looked threatening and to not use it in public.

That was that.

No excuse to shoot a 12 year old kid even if he has a gun that looks real. Just stop and taking a second to think why a 12 year old kid would have a gun.

How I think most people would think to handle a situation. But nope.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I don't watch the Wire, but you are the person that made this post.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=140125585&postcount=254

You're really bad at this

 

[Rembrandt]

But the kid did threaten the cops by going for the "gun" when they explicitly told him to put his hands up.

Isn't it sad to think this kids parents maybe never talked to him about police and he had no idea the response would be him getting shot. He's 12. These are two police officers. He's outside of a rec center. I'm looking at that pic and if it's recent, he doesn't look much older than 12. Why is shooting him the first response? If they seen him put the gun in his waistband before it all, why not come out with guns pointed if you really wanted to be safe?

How I think most people would think to handle a situation. But nope.

It's really sad.

 

[Random Painted HIghway]

Cute kid, is that a Mr. Hankey shirt? I've always found those to be a sign of a ne'er do well. If that is a recent picture it is difficult to imagine how threatening he could be, weapon or no weapon.

 

[thepotatoman]

Police were responding to reports of a male with a gun outside Cudell Recreation Center at Detroit Avenue and West Boulevard about 3:30 p.m., Deputy Chief of Field Operations Ed Tomba said.

Can we at least agree that people who call in crap like this need to fuck right off. They're the ones that created this situation.

EDIT: Nevermind, I was wrong.

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

You're really bad at this

Im going to agree. Backslash I think you're out of your element. I don't think you know much about the topic or black history (nor do I expect you to).

Honestly I think everyone posting here on the other side of the discussion is out of their element except KHarv.

 

[Pickles Spill]

You conveniently ignore my post. That's ok.

Why is an explicit verbal or physical threat necessary for justification in this case. The kid went for the gun. From the officer's point of view, that's threatening enough.

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

Why is an explicit verbal or physical threat necessary for justification in this case. The kid went for the gun. From the officer's point of view, that's threatening enough.

That would be a physical threat no?

 

[Chie Satonaka]

At least there's some good things happening in this thread. Those being that I get to hear from a few people who aren't sociopaths, and that I get to know who to ignore and or disregard anything they ever say about any subject at any time.

 

[Pickles Spill]

That would be a physical threat no?

The article makes it sound like two different things:

The officer got out of the car and told the boy to put his hands up. The boy reached into his waistband, pulled out the gun and the rookie officer fired two shots, Tomba said.

vs

Tomba said the child did not threaten the officer verbally or physically.

So I dunno. It depends on how you read it.
---

At least there's some good things happening in this thread. Those being that I get to hear from a few people who aren't sociopaths, and that I get to know who to ignore and or disregard anything they ever say about any subject at any time.

Just because you disagree with someone, doesn't mean you can shut your ears to everything they say. That paves the way for an echo-chamber.

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

No?

A person has what appears to be a gun out and is playing with it in a playground. Regardless of age, that can be somewhat alarming.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...harrell_just_three_examples_of_why_i_don.html

I know i've given you a ton of links to read, and I doubt you've read any of them let alone my posts, but here's another good one if you're sincere.

 

[Rembrandt]

No?

A person has what appears to be a gun out and is playing with it in a playground. Regardless of age, that can be somewhat alarming.

Yeah, I kinda agree. The responsibility really lies on the cops to accurately assess a situation.

Although what happened in that Walmart at Ohio kinda swayed me.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...harrell_just_three_examples_of_why_i_don.html

I know i've given you a ton of links to read, and I doubt you've read any of them let alone my posts, but here's another good one if you're sincere.

That's a really great piece. Thanks for sharing it. I still can't get over that mother losing her child for leaving her at the park.

 

[……forgetit]

Feel sorry for the kid, but I can't fault the cop, if the gun looks real he has to assume it's real. I'm usually grossly against cops, but this is just a messed up situation.

 

[Zoe]

Can we at least agree that people who call in crap like this need to fuck right off. They're the ones that created this situation.

Even in places where open carry is legal, brandishing can still be an offense. Not to mention underage carry of any kind is typically illegal.

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

The article makes it sound like two different things:
vs

So I dunno. It depends on how you read it.
.

If he didn't make any verbal or physical threats why was the officer scared for his life enough to shoot the kid dead?

That's the question. That's why so many here are upset. You continually make every excuse as to why this shooting was perfectly fair.

We are saying it's not OK. It's not OK or fair that a 12 year old who made no physical or verbal threats and actually wasn't a physical threat is now dead.

My issue is that people often afford blacks less mercy than other races. So while it's justified other races would have been given the benefit of the doubt even at the officers (objective) risk/danger.

Blacks are the only race where people routinely support robotic and unmerciful actions taken against them.