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[La Maquinon]

Yup. It's like the writer has a really good idea to get the title started and then gets into a slump trying to continue with new stories.
Or the dreaded crossovers. Pretty much every New-52 title I tried was really good up to the point they started the crossovers. That's when I was out.
I have no loyalty to ongoings. There are too many good comics to read instead of wasting time and money on ongoings that get stale.Miniseries have it right. Tell the story. End it. Not some neverending soap opera.

Fuckin' dead rights there.

The crossovers and tie-ins and all that junk is one of the reasons I quit corporate comics.

Don't get me wrong, there are some minis that I hope to see more of. SGG and Buzzkill could definitely come back and give me more. You know, if the creators are so inspired and when they are ready. I'm happy to wait. And then there are series like Atomic Robo and Bloodhound that tell their stories in a series of minis. Again, when the creators are good and ready. If creators can take the time to make a product to their satisfaction and on their schedule rather than under some mandate, The product is more likely to be consistently high quality and I'll stick with it.

 

[GrandHarrier]

Yup. It's like the writer has a really good idea to get the title started and then gets into a slump trying to continue with new stories.
Or the dreaded crossovers. Pretty much every New-52 title I tried was really good up to the point they started the crossovers. That's when I was out.
I have no loyalty to ongoings. There are too many good comics to read instead of wasting time and money on ongoings that get stale. Miniseries have it right. Tell the story. End it. Not some neverending soap opera.

You're acting as if it is an either or scenario; I have to disagree with you in the strongest possible terms. You happen to like miniseries. That does not translate into miniseries being the defacto standard for quality. Also, even if ongoings can be directly compared to soap operas, so what? There is obviously an audience for it. It's obviously successful. Some of the best comics ever were born out of ongoings (obv imo).

The whole point of reading comics is to enjoy it. It doesn't really matter how that is achieved. If you've enjoyed a comic, congratulations, you've won comics.

 

[BlueScrote]

You're acting as if it is an either or scenario; I have to disagree with you in the strongest possible terms. You happen to like miniseries. That does not translate into miniseries being the defacto standard for quality. Also, even if ongoings can be directly compared to soap operas, so what? There is obviously an audience for it. It's obviously successful. Some of the best comics ever were born out of ongoings (obv imo).

The whole point of reading comics is to enjoy it. It doesn't really matter how that is achieved. If you've enjoyed a comic, congratulations, you've won comics.

The problem is you aren't enjoying Nocenti's books yet keep buying them.

 

[Rafa=FedKilla]

So, I'm now of the opinion that DC going out of business would actually be a good thing. Because fuck those guys.

He was talking about network execs brah.

 

[kswiston]

I disagree with mini-series being #1. There are some good miniseries to be sure, but I will take a longer, well-planned ongoing any day of the week. The problem with many ongoing books is that some writers have a few neat ideas but no clear direction or plan. As such, they run out of steam part way through. With the big-2 stuff, you also have to deal with editorial who have the attention span of a 5 year old.

That said, no mini-series will ever be able to replicate that feeling of reading the payoff issue to a story that has been building for years.

 

[Future Foundation]

So, I'm now of the opinion that DC going out of business would actually be a good thing. Because fuck those guys.

You do realize Dini was talking about network executives, right?

 

[sazabirules]

I love how Hellboy tells its story through one shots and miniseries. The Wake has been a great mini so far.

 

[ElNarez]

He was talking about network execs brah.

Yeah, which is why I said DC, as in, "the whole kit and caboodle". The whole thing can go to hell if they're gonna be this stupid.

Plus Marvel is taking the few good people in DC Editorial now, so this can only get worse.

 

[Filthy Slug]

The whole point of reading comics is to enjoy it. It doesn't really matter how that is achieved. If you've enjoyed a comic, congratulations, you've won comics.

I fully agree with that, GH. If you like something, keep putting money into it and enjoying the shit out of it regardless of what others say.

I just gotta say that it sucks hearing about people putting money into Ann Nonceti comics but, say, not picking up stuff like Zero or Sex Criminals or The Unwritten.

 

[Freezasaurus]

I just gotta say that it sucks hearing about people putting money into Ann Nonceti comics but, say, not picking up stuff like Zero or Sex Criminals or The Unwritten.

I've been reading Unwritten since the beginning, but the Fables crossover completely alienated me (since I don't read Fables) and killed any interest I had in the series.

Sex Criminals is great, though.

 

[Filthy Slug]

I've been reading Unwritten since the beginning, but the Fables crossover completely alienated me (since I don't read Fables) and killed any interest I had in the series.

Sex Criminals is great, though.

Ah, don't abandon ship yet! I agree that the crossover was sloppy in terms of integration, but if you take the overall things learned and plot progression, it was entirely solid.

The final few issues are going to start coming out soon and it looks like everything is going to wrap up. Tom's back and the apocalypse is coming--I'm pumped for the finale.

 

[Rafa=FedKilla]

I've been reading Unwritten since the beginning, but the Fables crossover completely alienated me (since I don't read Fables) and killed any interest I had in the series.

Sex Criminals is great, though.

That and Mike Carey can write circles around Willingham.

 

[Future Foundation]

Yeah, which is why I said DC, as in, "the whole kit and caboodle". The whole thing can go to hell if they're gonna be this stupid.

Plus Marvel is taking the few good people in DC Editorial now, so this can only get worse.

But Paul was talking about Cartoon Network (he specifically cited what happened with his show Tower Prep). Unless DCE has somehow absorbed Cartoon Network without anyone knowing, this is a CN thing.

 

[phazedplasma]

Ah, don't abandon ship yet! I agree that the crossover was sloppy in terms of integration, but if you take the overall things learned and plot progression, it was entirely solid.

The final few issues are going to start coming out soon and it looks like everything is going to wrap up. Tom's back and the apocalypse is coming--I'm pumped for the finale.

Wait is fables actually ending???

Also harrier you are everything that is wrong with comic readers.

 

[vocab]

I look forward to starting unwritten and seeing the fables crossover, but I gotta read more fables before I get to the cross over.

 

[arkon]

Wait is fables actually ending???

Also harrier you are everything that is wrong with comic readers.

Yep. 150 is the final issue.

 

[Freezasaurus]

I look forward to starting unwritten and seeing the fables crossover, but I gotta read more fables before I get to the cross over.

That's a hell of a lot of reading, dude.

 

[vocab]

That's a hell of a lot of reading, dude.

Ya, it is, but I enjoy the series, and its one of the series that got me into comics recently (sandman as well). I should be starting Unwritten in a few weeks. I hope it's as good as it sounds.

 

[Forbin5]

Shaolin Cowboy 2.....wtf

 

[Rafa=FedKilla]

Shaolin Cowboy 2.....wtf

Its the artist version of Kirkman, brah didn't want to pay for a letterer like Kirkman didn't want to pay for a colorist for TWD.

 

[Filthy Slug]

Wait is fables actually ending???

Also harrier you are everything that is wrong with comic readers.

Yeah, but I was talking about Unwritten. Fables should have been abandoned at, like, issue 75 or 76. They're both ending but one is still a top-notch comic that hasn't mucked up its story, and the other is just a dusty comic clinging to past triumphs.

 

[KoruptData]

I feel like a lot of DC's characters are suffering creatively because of Trinity War and Forever Evil. Those have been excellent but the characters involved cannot advance until that story has ended. Catwoman is a big character right now in Forever Evil so her solo book is suffering because of Nocenti and the fact that the writer is stuck filling holes in her timeline. That's why Batman is doing Zero Year. Nothing is advancing the DCU right now unless it's tied to Johns vision of Forever Evil.

 

[Parch]

I disagree with mini-series being #1.

I'm not talking just miniseries. There are story arcs in ongoings that are definitely very good. Or just the way a title is constructed like the mentioned Hellboy. Right now I'm reading Legends of the Dark Knight. It's not an ongoing, just a series of self contained stories by different creative teams. If there's a story I don't care for, I know the next one isn't going to be the same writer just plodding along.

I just don't care for titles with interlaced stories so you have to get the next issue. Plus I think some ongoings are purposely convoluted with a convenient footnote about clarification in another title. Constantly trying to get me to buy other books bug me. Then of course the lousy crossovers are a whole new level of suck.

Fine if that's what you like. Just not my thing. I would rather cherry pick the good runs and avoid the junk instead of committing to an ongoing where you get the bad stories with the good ones. The filler issues. The stretched stories. The lousy crossovers and tie-ins. For me that's just a bunch of wasted money.

 

[Freezasaurus]

Its the artist version of Kirkman, brah didn't want to pay for a letterer like Kirkman didn't want to pay for a colorist for TWD.

I think the B&W works for TWD, regardless of what the motivations may or may not have been. But as Kirkman goes, Invincible is far superior.

 

[Filthy Slug]

Anybody reading Batman & Two-Face? I'm wondering what others' thoughts are for the new, way more brutal origin story of Two-Face.

 

[B-Dubs]

I feel like a lot of DC's characters are suffering creatively because of Trinity War and Forever Evil. Those have been excellent but the characters involved cannot advance until that story has ended. Catwoman is a big character right now in Forever Evil so her solo book is suffering because of Nocenti and the fact that the writer is stuck filling holes in her timeline. That's why Batman is doing Zero Year. Nothing is advancing the DCU right now unless it's tied to Johns vision of Forever Evil.

Yea, that's the problem with the huge crossovers. Generally everything grinds to a halt unless a book's direction manages to match up with the direction of the event.

 

[Rafa=FedKilla]

Yea, that's the problem with the huge crossovers. Generally everything grinds to a halt unless a book's direction manages to match up with the direction of the event.

She may have read a creative writing textbook or two but Noccenti has no fundamental understanding of stories. A good writer can pull of comics when an event is going in, Layman and Tomasi were putting out solid stories when they were at the mercy of super star writers plots. Both are former editors. Being restricted is just as much a part of art as their own vision.mits always been that way.

 

[phazedplasma]

Yeah, but I was talking about Unwritten. Fables should have been abandoned at, like, issue 75 or 76. They're both ending but one is still a top-notch comic that hasn't mucked up its story, and the other is just a dusty comic clinging to past triumphs.

Yeah thats about where I stopped reading fables. Glad to hear unwritten is still good. I'm still catching up on that.

 

[GrandHarrier]

Anybody reading Batman & Two-Face? I'm wondering what others' thoughts are for the new, way more brutal origin story of Two-Face.

I liked it. Yeah its a bit more rough but when you get down to it, most of Two-Faces origins have been that way, they've just usually been sugar coated on the surface to a degree. This one has some elements of evil animated series version, just ratcheted up and tweaked.

But I'll also be the first to admit that Tomasi has earned a lot of leeway with me because of how great he has been on the book overall.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

Yeah, which is why I said DC, as in, "the whole kit and caboodle". The whole thing can go to hell if they're gonna be this stupid.

Except DC isn't the umbrella that these tv execs live under. Your anger is completely miss placed, be mad at CN, and Hollywood not at DC.

 

[Owzers]

Uncanny Avengers #14 was still great despite you guys spoiling it Xo. I'm not surprised by people ditching the book during it's first arc, but it's been more than worthwhile to stick with it, reads like Uncanny X-Force lives on.

 

[GrandHarrier]

Except DC isn't the umbrella that these tv execs live under. Your anger is completely miss placed, be mad at CN, and Hollywood not at DC.

Yeah I don't get this misplaced rage either. It's the marketing guys at these TV networks that are making these calls.

 

[Owzers]

My Infinity bundle sold on ebay for $70, infinity along with avengers 1-23 and new avengers 1-12. That's a lot of comics.

Battle of the atom bundle still clings to my shelf.

 

[Filthy Slug]

I liked it. Yeah its a bit more rough but when you get down to it, most of Two-Faces origins have been that way, they've just usually been sugar coated on the surface to a degree. This one has some elements of evil animated series version, just ratcheted up and tweaked.

But I'll also be the first to admit that Tomasi has earned a lot of leeway with me because of how great he has been on the book overall.

I think the most interesting facet of it is Erin. The new catalyst for Harvey and Gilda's downfall is no longer a nameless goon, but a crazed Irish mobster, who

Spoiler

has a twin sister

. Also, the

Spoiler

Matches Malone prison breakout

is one of my favorite scenes in recent Batman books.

 

[SephCast]

I'm catching up on my batman issues, do the villains month issues take place during zero year or are they not within the arc?

 

[sazabirules]

I just finished Avengers Arena. I can't wait for Avengers Undercover to read more stories involving these characters.

 

[TetraxShards]

I just finished Avengers Arena. I can't wait for Avengers Undercover to read more stories involving these characters.

Loved Arena, one of my favourite series of the year and, for me at least, the biggest surprise of Marvel NOW.

It's gonna be a long couple of months until Undercover.

 

[slightconfuse]

I just finished Avengers Arena. I can't wait for Avengers Undercover to read more stories involving these characters.

Yep me too Arena was such a pleasant surprise

More cammi

 

[sazabirules]

Is Kev Walker supposed to be the main artist? I hope so.

 

[slightconfuse]

Yea Walker is back on art

 

[crimsonspider89]

Don't get too excited. AU will probably be canceled early when looking at the relative fan reaction to the book and the sales in context of the PR amount spent and the fact we are in a comic high. It sold less than Academy during a comic low and its TPB sales are low as well.

 

[Deprive]

They would be better off just having titles like that run for 12 issues max. If the series proves popular enough. Give it another 12 issues. So a season format if you will.

 

[TetraxShards]

They would be better off just having titles like that run for 12 issues max. If the series proves popular enough. Give it another 12 issues. So a season format if you will.

That's basically what they're doing. Arena ran for 18 issues in more-or-less a 12-month period. I expect Undercover to be about the same. They might do a third/fourth "season" (I count Academy as Season One of this story, despite a different team) or Hopeless will get a bigger gig which he probably deserves as his books have been really entertaining.

I'm looking forward to the two X-Force teams meeting in Vendetta, not sure if I'll follow the new X-Force team though. I suppose I should read the rest of Six-Gun Gorilla and maybe some of X-Men Legacy (what's the interior art like on this? covers are amazing!), same writer right? Hopefully comic book Santa will be nice to me.

 

[crimsonspider89]

Arena was not set to be 18 issues originally. He implemented a time skip between the Hazmat dance party and the first Apex Nico showdown because of the sales and such.

He has already said he has a short version and longer version.

 

[sazabirules]

GA #26 was a bit slow but the art was so pretty to look at.

 

[purnoman3000]

I liked it. Yeah its a bit more rough but when you get down to it, most of Two-Faces origins have been that way, they've just usually been sugar coated on the surface to a degree. This one has some elements of evil animated series version, just ratcheted up and tweaked.

But I'll also be the first to admit that Tomasi has earned a lot of leeway with me because of how great he has been on the book overall.

Tomasi is writing the only good Bat book besides Snyder.


.

 

[arkon]

That's basically what they're doing. Arena ran for 18 issues in more-or-less a 12-month period. I expect Undercover to be about the same. They might do a third/fourth "season" (I count Academy as Season One of this story, despite a different team) or Hopeless will get a bigger gig which he probably deserves as his books have been really entertaining.

I'm looking forward to the two X-Force teams meeting in Vendetta, not sure if I'll follow the new X-Force team though. I suppose I should read the rest of Six-Gun Gorilla and maybe some of X-Men Legacy (what's the interior art like on this? covers are amazing!), same writer right? Hopefully comic book Santa will be nice to me.

The interior art is crap. Passable at best. I'd still recommend it though because I think the writing is top notch.

 

[Messi]

Are Uncanny Avengers or XMen Legacy worth reading?

I think I will try and pick up some Daredevil.

 

[TetraxShards]

Are Uncanny Avengers or XMen Legacy worth reading?

I think I will try and pick up some Daredevil.

First arc of Uncanny Avengers is ROUGH, Remender tries some Claremont-esque narration and Cassaday's art is a rare miss of his (I usually LOVE his stuff, so it was real dissapointing). There's a fantastic 90s reference/foreshadowing at the end though, and it gets steadily better after that. Last few issues have been top notch. I'm glad I stuck with it TBH.

If you haven't read Uncanny X-Force yet, I highly recommend that instead, and Uncanny Avengers continues a lot of threads from that. Definitely try the Mark Waid Daredevil stuff if you can, quality comics.

 

[Parch]

I noticed Marvel Knights is back. Anybody read any of these yet? I might try the XMen ones.