GrandHarrier
Member
Same reason any character gets sexualized. They can. Comics tend to gloss over or ignore the more unpleasant aspects; Most things in comics don't hold up under scrutiny.
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- Thread starter Spike Spiegel
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Same reason any character gets sexualized. They can. Comics tend to gloss over or ignore the more unpleasant aspects; Most things in comics don't hold up under scrutiny.
Batman has untreated PTSD that lead to him using violence to try and deter a similar event like the death of his parents from ever happening again while creating more villains than actually ever solving any real problems. Same goes for other tragic back stories like Harley's.
The foundation of our comics are flimsy and stupid to begin with, so it's not a great idea to try to break down moral aspects of certain characters and how they are written. You'll just end up with a headache.
The foundation of our comics are flimsy and stupid to begin with, so it's not a great idea to try to break down moral aspects of certain characters and how they are written. You'll just end up with a headache.
Secret Fawful
Member
Eh, it's not that I'm telling people not to, it just always seemed a bit odd to me. I don't know of a more sexualized and lusted after character from American geek culture, really, which is why I think it's more strange to me. Once in a while here or there I'd expect it, but it's pretty prominent. I mean, she's a fairly cute character on the surface, but the core of her character is anything but. Then again maybe most people look at her more as a playful psycho like Joker and less a tragic victim of his mental and physical abuse.
sometimes restraint is better
I think you misinterpret the Male/Female fandom of certain characters. I think Harley looks cool. I enjoy how she's written and I especially love the dynamic she has with Catwoman and Poison Ivy. The way she is drawn plays little into why I enjoy her and the other female characters I love to read about.
Are there guys like that? Absolutely. But it isn't a generalized "shame on you because she's a victim and we are sexualizing violence" situation. It's reading far too into the character.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
What, you shocked people would be attracted to a bubbly sexpot who's attracted to people no matter how much shitty they treat them and doesn't seem to have any strong interests outside being dedicated to them?
Also, I can almost guarantee you that if Harley was a shitty character to begin with you wouldn't even bother with her. Your rationale for liking a female character is not "omg boobs." Like is being suggest of fans who enjoy female characters. Even Powergirl has depth and the boob jokes are just a gag.
Let's take this example for instance. I think this cover is fantastic. Harley is drawn incredibly well and feminine but I'm not getting all hot and bothered by it. I also love that her waist is drawn more like an actual woman's instead of the Liefield rip/hip/organless male fantasy female forme that plagues a lot of current books to this day.
Edit: Totally unrelated, but these sort of covers are the only acceptable form of tracing. It would be a bitch to line up those sketches any other way. Draw the initial, then trace the new image over it.
Secret Fawful
Member
Sure, there's more to the character than that, and I definitely get that people can like her for more than sexualization. I do! I never said everyone does that and I wasn't targeting anyone.
Stuff like the Arkham games' portrayal and the way DC sometimes has her drawn bothers me, though.
Anyone? Would like to go ahead and pull the trigger on this.
Oh yeah absolutely! Do not take that as me being a jerk at all. Your question was definitely appropriate and it should be asked because comic writers in general get lost in their own horse shit trying to put their mark on a character while conflicting with the original vision.
I tend to step up to explain why I prefer well written female characters over men due to the fact that people from the outside (not you) tend to overreact and come to the conclusion that all male fans are deviant men-children who live vicariously through the characters and develop unrealistic expectations of how a female should be/act.
GrandHarrier
Member
I like most of Harleys designs, both get BTAS as well as stuff like the Arkham ones. One seems better for TV, the other for comics, to me.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Love the Arkham games, but their character designs are lololol
That's the Unreal Engine for you. I would complain but when you have "unreal" in your engine name you'd be setting yourself up for disappointment if you expected anything other than that.
Unreal has nothing to do with character design. Its an engine.
Have yet to see a character in Unreal that isn't abnormally ripped or a female character that isn't top heavy with small arms. Engines have restrictions and that seems to be one for Unreal 3.
KoruptData
Member
Arkham City Harley is my favorite.
You mean like Mirror's Edge?
Come on dude.. her face are super fucked up in that lol
KoruptData
Member
Let's not be like that. You know I'm speaking about any third person action game that used UE3. Also, horrid example. Police and Swat fall into the same "bulky dudes" example.
Edit: also, not the place. You win, I lose, whatever. UE3 is perfect and it's in no way an issue with the engine. Back to comics and Harley.
KoruptData
Member
I'm gonna have to say character models have nothing todo with the Unreal Engine.
Mass Effect had very proportional characters.
Mass Effect had very proportional characters.
I may also be misinterpreting UE3 restrictions with licensed recycling of models.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
Well I bought it but haven read it. Where's birdy or Tim when you need them? I know earlier in this thread they linked this article that says its DCs best crossover event.
http://comicsalliance.com/ask-chris-198-dcs-greatest-crossover/
KoruptData
Member
It's always Harley and Selina in here. You know another kitty that just as good? Black Cat. Her scene with Daredevil in his run was good!
Batman Beyond Universe #22:
Surprise Terry is alive. It was a hologram. And now he has an upgraded Kryptonite infused Batsuit to go round two against Justice Lord Superman.
Regular humans being fooled I thought was ok. But Superman? It was a rock for gods sake!
GrandHarrier
Member
Prep time Batman > *
But I chalked it up to the suit being, seemingly, more advanced than the one he had previously. It was designed by a Batman who had been fighting against Lord Superman for many years. He'd specifically design it to counter him as best as possible.
Man, I'm re-reading Final Crisis right now and I don't get how more people don't love it. Well, I can understand it, I guess, but I digress.
It's just so incredibly exciting. It's the only comic I can think of that really captures that feeling of things happening on such epic proportions and everything falling apart at once. There are so many threads happening at one time but it still all just works.
More than any other comic, Final Crisis just feels so big. It really is a joy to read.
I do think I'm enjoying it a lot more the second time. The first time I read it, I still had great fun and got that feeling of something of epic proportions taking place, but I also didn't really have a clue what was going on. Now that I already know the general plot and also know more about the DC universe in general, I can actually follow the plot much easier but it still retains that excitement.
And additionally, there's something about JG Jones' art that I reeeally like. I can't really put my finger on it, but the art is really enjoyable for me.
It's just so incredibly exciting. It's the only comic I can think of that really captures that feeling of things happening on such epic proportions and everything falling apart at once. There are so many threads happening at one time but it still all just works.
More than any other comic, Final Crisis just feels so big. It really is a joy to read.
I do think I'm enjoying it a lot more the second time. The first time I read it, I still had great fun and got that feeling of something of epic proportions taking place, but I also didn't really have a clue what was going on. Now that I already know the general plot and also know more about the DC universe in general, I can actually follow the plot much easier but it still retains that excitement.
And additionally, there's something about JG Jones' art that I reeeally like. I can't really put my finger on it, but the art is really enjoyable for me.
Black Cat is incredibly awesome! Are you talking about the Spidey/DD/Felicia Waid issue? Loved it!
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Spike Spiegel
Member
I wonder what's going to happen next for Captain America... Is Steve's
transformation "permanent" going forward, or are we going to see him recover shortly? The preview artwork for next issue shows him as an old man still, and the story was titled 'Super Soldier No More' but IIRC Fury and Duggan got the same treatment from Iron Nail and they recovered.
KoruptData
Member
Yes, Spider-mans "Super Villain origins." Lol
Filthy Slug
Crowd screaming like hounds at the heat of the chase/ All the colors of the rainbow flood my face
One of us.
Like a lot of stuff these days it reads better in one chunk instead of over a number of months. Or in the case of Forever Evil a number of ice ages.
Tyrant Rave
Banned
I love Black Cat, she's so great with Peter.
slightconfuse
Banned
Yep final crisis bat DC event . Even if it took 5000 artist to finish it
Tyrant Rave
Banned
She is great with SpOck
Seriously though that was fucked up
The cover for that issue was really nice at least
Pretty sure is, but I haven't read it so can't confirm personally. Maybe Jedeye or someone else can chime in?
Tizoc
Member
Mmmm dat Black Cat.
Please tell me how it is. I don't think anyone here actively reads it and I want to know if Vampirella is a genuinely good book or trash.
This is the reason why he should replace Slott ASAP.
Future Foundation
Member
The trade got a re-released, right? New reading order and everything? I might finally give it a run-through.
Three issues in and it's certainly not what I was expecting. She's essentially Blade. Goes around killing Vamps (In regular clothes too). There's a plot going about a giant worm and it's all played totally straight. Not bad so far.
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