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Competitive Super Smash Bros. Melee Discussion Thread

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Pappasman

Member
I could be wrong but I just don't see it as a feasible game changing tech.

Being able to hit that frame timing and being ready for a move in those specific circumstances are two things that aren't easy to plan for. Plus there is no indication of a success or failure, its just one of those things where you have to hope you get it.

All for 5% reduced knockback.
 
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Ultra Numb

Member
Will there be a big house 5 thread? it's the second biggest Melee tournament in history, not to mention a pretty big Smash4 tournament it deserves its own OT.
 
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chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
Something going on with the PMDT tomorrow. Looks like they are going to announce Wavedash Games, a startup that is presumably going to be working on their own standalone game. Which would almost certainly be a Smash-like game probably based on their work from PM.

Even though we've already got Rivals of Aether coming out, which looks good, having another quality Smash-like game with competitive play in mind would be great.
 
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LucidMomentum

Member
chaosblade said:
Something going on with the PMDT tomorrow. Looks like they are going to announce Wavedash Games, a startup that is presumably going to be working on their own standalone game. Which would almost certainly be a Smash-like game probably based on their work from PM.

Even though we've already got Rivals of Aether coming out, which looks good, having another quality Smash-like game with competitive play in mind would be great.
Click to expand...

I trust PMDT. If they kickstart something they have my money.
They've earned it, that's for sure.
 
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emb

Member
chaosblade said:
Something going on with the PMDT tomorrow. Looks like they are going to announce Wavedash Games, a startup that is presumably going to be working on their own standalone game. Which would almost certainly be a Smash-like game probably based on their work from PM.

Even though we've already got Rivals of Aether coming out, which looks good, having another quality Smash-like game with competitive play in mind would be great.
Click to expand...
I'd be excited about it. Let's hope Wavedash Games does better than JV5 Games did though.
 
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chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
emb said:
I'd be excited about it. Let's hope Wavedash Games does better than JV5 Games did though.
Click to expand...

I think if the PM community is willing to support whatever they do, they will be successful. Could definitely see a big part of the community not support it due to the implications that would have for PM.

Then again, PM is arguably almost "done." Supposedly they only have one more major version release and probably some minor balance patches following that.
 
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emb

Member
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chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
Where can I upload webms with sound? Made a couple short hbox vids ("you know why I hate stadium?") but don't know where to put them.
 
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emb

Member
Big House was amazing, but most of the results weren't really what I wanted. I at least got M2K over Mango, and Abate making it to top 8.

So did anything ever happen with Wavedash? I thought there would be some trailer/announcement, but now their site just says something eSports something new games.
 
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LucidMomentum

Member
emb said:
So did anything ever happen with Wavedash? I thought there would be some trailer/announcement, but now their site just says something eSports something new games.
Click to expand...

Nope. Apparently PMDT is saying it's not related to them, even if some of the devs are working with Wavedash apparently.

An announcement of an announcement of an announcement, really.
 
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ec0ec0

Member
Pappasman said:
Jiggs ruining another Melee top 8 ResidentSleeper
Click to expand...
Hungrybox has yet to understand that ledge camping has never really worked. However, what keeps ruining top 8s, and hungrybox carrer, is not jigglypuff, it's fox. Fox should absolutely not have the ability to force people to approach. Lasers only exist to ruin a couple of characters, mainly jigglypuff, and to a lesser extent peach.

People complain about jigglypuff but, if you think about it, we only get to see her against fox. In fact, this weekend, hungrybox only had to play against foxes in the top 128!! Again, we only get to see puff in the jigglypuff-fox matchup, and it's not jigglypuff's fault that the matchup is being played like it is. Remove lasers, and it would instantly be played in a more entertaining way. The jigglypuff player would still be really scared of early up throw -> up air kills, though.

I don't see why people dislike puff. You can see how ridiculously hard puff (hungrybox :p) has to work to beat all those foxes. Hungrybox has to continuosly beat them in neutral, one f*cking hit at a time, as puff doesn't usually get more than that on fox until he's at high percent. It's really unfair that people blame puff, instead of fox.

The fact that most people only use fox against puff should be proof enough that he's just a little to good against puff. People go fox because he has some unfair advantages againt puff, not because jigglypuff beats everyone else, or something, as that's not the case.

If fox wasn't such a clear counter against puff, people would try other characters against her, and tournaments would be more entertaining. But how things are now, we will see the same situation in the future: hungrybox will beat some of the peolple who can beat the fox sitting in grand finals, only to lose at the end. Tournament ruined :p

All in all, i think that it's really impressive that hungrybox keeps beating most foxes with puff. There's a lot of foxes that can beat his puff, but there's only one puff that can beat all (almost :p) those foxes.
 
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Anth0ny

Member
Hungrybox's top 128 bracket: Kjh (2-0), Zhu (2-0), Darkatma (3-1), Ice (3-0), Mango (3-1), Armada (0-3), Mew2king (3-1), Armada (2-3)

Yes, ALL FOXES.

I don't think Jigglypuff is the character we should be annoyed with...


I actually enjoyed watching Hbox's Puff against Armada's Fox. He really is the underdog. Clearly some of you forgot how their Puff/Peach sets used to go if you thought yesterday was boring to watch...


That being said, yesterday was boring to watch. Really unfortunate that Leffen and PPMD couldn't play. The only real upsets in top 8 was Hbox beating Mango and M2K beating Mango. the real hype came before top 8 with Abate.
 
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Pappasman

Member
Okay to defend myself I was making an over exaggerated joke. I'm not shitting on Hbox at all, he is amazing (obviously) and I actually really enjoyed his games vs Armada yesterday.

However, I just dislike puff as a character. She doesn't have to play Melee. She can just fly around, poke, and scare you into a grab to take a stupid easy stock with a move ten times worse than wobbling.
ec0ec0 said:
People complain about jigglypuff but, if you think about it, we only get to see her against fox. In fact, this weekend, hungrybox only had to play against foxes in the top 128!! Again, we only get to see puff in the jigglypuff-fox matchup, and it's not jigglypuff's fault that the matchup is being played like it is. Remove lasers, and it would instantly be played in a more entertaining way. The jigglypuff player would still be really scared of early up throw -> up air kills, though.
Click to expand...
Remove lasers and you have a match that is extremely hard for fox to deal with. Lasers are his only way of forcing puff to do anything without risking getting grab rested. Puff gets a one stock lead then can run away for the whole match without a care in the world.
ec0ec0 said:
I don't see why people dislike puff. You can see how ridiculously hard puff (hungrybox :p) has to work to beat all those foxes. Hungrybox has to continuosly beat them in neutral, one f*cking hit at a time, as puff doesn't usually get more than that on fox until he's at high percent. It's really unfair that people blame puff, instead of fox.

The fact that most people only use fox against puff should be proof enough that he's just a little to good against puff. People go fox because he has some unfair advantages againt puff, not because jigglypuff beats everyone else, or something, as that's not the case.

If fox wasn't such a clear counter against puff, people would try other characters against her, and tournaments would be more entertaining. But how things are now, we will see the same situation in the future: hungrybox will beat some of the peolple who can beat the fox sitting in grand finals, only to lose at the end. Tournament ruined :p

All in all, i think that it's really impressive that hungrybox keeps beating most foxes with puff. There's a lot of foxes that can beat his puff, but there's only one puff that can beat all (almost :p) those foxes.
Click to expand...
I'm not discounting Hbox, like I said, he has earned his reputation. But I think the reason people always pick fox is that every other character has to work so much harder for so little over the course of really long games (Or if they suck they get rested really fast and lose). I'd like to see more match variety, but it hasn't been proven yet. Puff is so good in the right hands.
 
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Ultra Numb

Member
I think Armada's performance against Hungrybox was brilliant.

He's hit the right note between offence and defence. He's not employing too much aggressiveness to the point that its just dumb [Mango] but at the same time he isn't letting the opponent taking 95% stage control by literally only shooting lasers [M2K]

He's found a middle-ground where he can switch between offence and defence so efficiently.

Also, I wouldn't doubt for a second that he has some sinister satisfaction for finally having a reliable answer for Puff after all those years of Peach/Puff and YL/Puff. He's expressed numerous times that he hates the character.
 
F

FZZ

Banned
I still want Mang0 to go back to Puff.

His Puff fucking wrecked S2J on his own stream a while back and then he never played Puff again.

He brings her out once in a blue moon but when he does she's as good as ever.
 
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chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
You know, The Inner Game of Tennis is like, THE book people recommend for improving. I can definitely see why, the general idea behind it is the same sort of mindset I have about some other (much more simple) games, like Audiosurf.

While it definitely applies to Smash, it seems harder to apply to a technical game than it does to a sport or a more simple game. You have more control over your body than you do your character in a game, you don't have to "learn" to control yourself effortlessly, but you do with a game. So that gives you a lot of extra steps before you can actually apply the lessons of the book.

It's probably a better read for people who are good on the technical front but struggle with consistent play and the mental game. I wouldn't say I'm entirely at that point yet, but I'm inching my way there.
 
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theprodigy

Member
Genesis 3 registration update: 700+ total, 530+ for Melee singles

also, since the Smash summit thing got announced, I wonder: who's the best mafia player in the Melee scene? ;)
 
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chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
Anth0ny said:
Are they going or are they just invited?

If they're all going it would be real shitty if hbox didn't show.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be surprised if his job prevented him from getting off for the big tournaments that seem to be popping up every month.

IIRC that's why he wasn't at Smashcon.
 
C

Captain Rage Quit 69

Banned
I'd be sad if Hbox doesn't go, I'm one of the few who don't mind his personality. His play can be annoying for different reasons (Hbox can't camp without something bad happening, why does he try ;__;)
 
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xezuru

Member
I'm always up for more competition in the scene but just from a viewer standpoint there is nothing interesting about watching Hbox gameplay.
Character wise, once he's announced to be on stream all you can do is hope to god he gets a spacie as the only thing visually appealing is hoping he'll get a read rest.

*Melee Gods rant incoming*

As far as player gameplay goes, all of the gods minus Armada/PP/Leffen are stagnant as fuck in terms of actually pushing characters both knowledge and game play to their limits, all the remaining still have all the experience and game sense in the world but their game play are all unchanged antiques from like pre09ers. Hbox is not an exception, but Hbox himself acknowledges that he started from the very beginning with lame bair spam that he has done it the longest and will keep just doing it cause it's the easiest for him and his hands while most of us have seen his other characters such as his falco/hfox that are also open avenues.

As much as I love the last two, they're just as bad at this but the only difference is they're both "masters" at what they do. M2K pushes the counterpick game and when he isn't emo2king takes edgeguarding to the absolute limit, even at his peak though it seems he refuses to learn new things about his Marth and he follows religiously his same techchases from 07, even leffen pointed out that he was doing imperfect things and smash di'ed and escapes / commented to read up on kadano's stuff knowing it was right there as "common knowledge" if he wanted. Mang0 similarly is the risk/reward master, getting to where he is with his gamesense, reads, and technical capability (at the very very least for the time). Yet he says flat out in interviews "I'm too old to change things up and learn new ats". Mango's aggressive reads and m2k's systematic edge guarding keep the excitement and hype flowing out of them, but it just sucks that it doesn't seem like they're interested in improving them or anything else.
Go to the Doctor m2k

That said, I enjoy Leffen coming into the scene to stir things up cause even as a fan of Mango and other gods, if they're just gonna keep limping into every tournament, hell yeah I'd rather see a s2j learn to edgeguard, techchase masters, and low tiers so fucking hungry and making top 8s rather than these guys reigning with the same preevo gameplay and edgehogging forever.

tldr;
im fine with lame play, just not lame adaptation to state of the game and meta
 
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Tomohawk

Member
I don't mind Hbox, since his top level fox matches are always so tense and puff looks like she could die at any second.

Anyways who does everyone want to see at Beyond the Summit, I want to see Amsa, Abate or Eddie Mexico, Kage, duck, Kirby Kaze and Ice. I kept S2J, Hugs and nintendude off my list because they interact with top players often already.
 
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chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
Local tournament officially expanded a bit into FGC games. They have had them at a few tournaments but they were never really officially part of the same group. They also started charging a venue fee, which is ultimately a good thing to support the events and scene. I have a PM/Melee setup to take so I won't have to pay it anyway, but still.

Need to figure out how to get a Melee save onto Nintendont so I can use standard Melee instead of 20XX for the tournament setup though. Could take my Melee disc but I don't want anything to happen to it. Game ain't cheap!

Or I guess I could use 20XX for another month until TE comes out.


I would like to see a new venue though. The current one (campus "game room") is nice in a lot of ways, but it's too small for 40+ Smash players along with other people (it's probably 500 sq ft with some large, immobile furnishing), parking kind of sucks, and it's not available during the summer. Maybe with a venue fee that will become an option.
 
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fredrancour

Member
Acquired a crt! I'm re-teaching my hands how to cope with melee now. I've discovered something hilarious: gamecube-era me never unlocked three stages, including FD and dreamland.

I'm so incredibly bad though. Jesus christ what is happening to my fingers.wonder how many weeks it'll be before I decide to go get 0-2'd at my first local.
 
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chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
fredrancour said:
Acquired a crt! I'm re-teaching my hands how to cope with melee now. I've discovered something hilarious: gamecube-era me never unlocked three stages, including FD and dreamland.

I'm so incredibly bad though. Jesus christ what is happening to my fingers.wonder how many weeks it'll be before I decide to go get 0-2'd at my first local.
Click to expand...

It takes a little time to adjust. When I started playing Melee again I got some aches and callouses. Didn't last too long though. And the more you play the better your fingers will get at responding. I still fumble inputs but I've gotten a lot better.

On the plus side, if you're starting from "scratch" you can easily eliminate nearly any bad habits you used to have. I used tap jump in 64, Melee, and Brawl, now I couldn't use it if I tried. Pretty much never used the C-stick, now I use it for most of my aerials. Didn't take advantage of defensive options other than rolling (never used shield or spot dodge). Still working on this, but I'm getting better about it.
 
F

fredrancour

Member
chaosblade said:
It takes a little time to adjust. When I started playing Melee again I got some aches and callouses. Didn't last too long though. And the more you play the better your fingers will get at responding. I still fumble inputs but I've gotten a lot better.

On the plus side, if you're starting from "scratch" you can easily eliminate nearly any bad habits you used to have. I used tap jump in 64, Melee, and Brawl, now I couldn't use it if I tried. Pretty much never used the C-stick, now I use it for most of my aerials. Didn't take advantage of defensive options other than rolling (never used shield or spot dodge). Still working on this, but I'm getting better about it.
Click to expand...

I definitely got spoiled by having the tap-jump-off option in sm4sh and brawl. I'm also currently awful at c-stick and shield usage.
 
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chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
I really need to get back into practicing more. A couple weeks ago my Shiek's movement was getting to be on point with dash dancing, wavedashes, wavelands, ledgedashes, etc. Regressed after not playing though.
 
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xezuru

Member
Anyone know which Gamecube adapter/where to get them that works with PC as well?
Literally L-cancelling has broken 3 of my PS3/PS4 controllers (triggers) so I might as well use my gamecube ones that never break. If anyone has the up and ups on input lag and if a pc adapter works with WiiU as well, that'd be sick.
 
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chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
Official one is widely available now isn't it? That is natively supported by Dolphin.

Clones of the official one are also natively supported by I can't vouch for quality.
 
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