Support NeoGAF

[Matt_Fox]

I come to Neogaf because I'm interested in video games. I'm becoming very tired of threads about culture wars - diversity, inclusivity, wokeism, however you want to word it. Its not video game discussion, its bait and its designed to rile people up.

I hope I'm speaking for the silent majority who haven't "taken a side" in this so-called war and really just want to discuss video games without all this combative tangential stuff.

And to those who do want to spend the precious hours of their finite lives fruitlessly arguing about these things in a video game forum then...

 

[Damigos]

I agree, keep wokeism away from my games

 

[Guilty_AI]

That's the issue however. You may not want anything with it, but there's a particular "side" in this discussion doing their darnest best to make sure you have no choice but to participate.

 

[Skifi28]

How bad have the culture wars affected your health?

 

[Hudo]

You might as well shut down GAF, then.

 

[feynoob]

How bad have the culture wars affected your health?

I need validation and a magical

 

[MagiusNecros]

More interested in discussing the lore of various game worlds over dissonant Existentialism, people arguing why 120 FPS is better then 60 FPS or how well Company A's stocks are doing vs Company B's.

In the meantime when I see the discourse that doesn't contribute to fun games I just play this song



Hudo They really should just make a couple subforum directories and make discussing games about games again IMO.

 

[Hudo]

Hudo They really should just make a couple subforum directories and make discussing games about games again IMO.

Might be a solid idea. On the other hand, I dunno if GAF has a large enough user base to populate subforums to a degree where there can be discussion that's more than a post per week.

 

[feynoob]

That is what we are op. We are always up for a Worthy fight.

 

[thegame983]

Console wars are infinitely lamer than culture wars.

 

[DaciaJC]

I'd much rather be informed about the bullshit seeping into and affecting this industry and know what studios' games to avoid, how to add my voice against wokeism, etc. than read the millionth post about how "my toy box is better than your toy box!!1! whaawhaawhaa"

 

[Jaybe]

Reminder: There are “ignore thread” and “ignore user” buttons if you don’t care for certain content. No need to police the things you dislike that others wish to engage in that you can easily opt out seeing.

 

[diffusionx]

Just admit you like the Mr. Freeze design, it's ok.

 

[Shtef]

I agree op, i am tired reading about this drama, that's why i ignore those threads.

 

[Soodanim]

Put the worst people and threads on ignore. It makes a difference.

 

[Boralf]

Couldn't agree more, although console wars are lame too.

 

[Hudo]

Without the console wars, the Neptunia franchise wouldn't exist, tho.

 

[Humdinger]

You can always just avoid clicking on those threads. If something annoys you, why bother with it?

I'm of a different mind. I think "woke" values are corrupting media all over the place - not just in gaming, but in movies, TV shows, and even books. I think it's worth talking about. It can also be funny or entertaining at times.

I agree that talking endlessly about it can get tiresome. That's true of anything. I just opt out when it gets to that point.

p.s. I appreciate that GAF allows that sort of discussion. Other forums do not.

 

[Kilau]

Please don’t discuss things directly impacting the quality of games on this gaming forum.

 

[mortal]

Both console and culture wars are lame, but at least with console wars, people can have a laugh and a bit of fun when fanboys aren't going overboard and making things personal.
Culture wars is just politics wrapped in another skin, and much like politics, it mostly pushes people to become more adversarial, resentful, and prejudiced towards one another.

It's even more annoying when you realize how much financial incentive there is in peddling rage bait and how manipulative it is.
Whether it be some outlet publishing articles complaining about how racist or sexist something is, or some YouTuber complaining about how woke something.

Regardless of how I feel, I understand this place is meant for discourse, including culture war topics. As others have mentioned, the ignore thread function is very useful for curating the board to one's liking.
I've mostly stopped following culture war content online, that shit just made me more whiny and worked up about things that if I'm being honest have little, if any, meaningful impact on my daily life.
Man, I'm far more concerned about the growing adoption of AI and automation and the work displacement it's causing in various industries, especially within the creative / entertainment industries.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Without the console wars, the Neptunia franchise wouldn't exist, tho.

Ah fuck you are right. Neptunia: Space Harrier edition is my favorite.

 

[Roxkis_ii]

Culture war stuff is so lame to me. It seems like people being upset every game isn't speificly aimed at them. We live in an era where we have more choice in how we spend our gaming time in then anytime in human history, and people decide to spend it complaining about games they don't want to buy. It just seem so unproductive.

God I actually miss the console war. It was surprisingly less cringe.

 

[unlurkified]

Sorry OP but it’s ignorant to think that you can just ignore it and escape it now-it’s permeated so much. We don’t want politics in our games which is why we’re constantly pointing it out and complaining about it.

Besides, since E3 went away there really isn’t much to discuss this time of year.

 

[dorkimoe]

I’ve had enough as well. Just because a game includes a diverse character doesn’t mean we need 9 page threads arguing about it. The fact people get upset about it proves they need to do it. Eventually you shouldn’t even notice. Just play the game and get over it my god

Diversity isn’t automatically woke. Get that fucking word out of here

 

[NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt]

Without the console wars, the Neptunia franchise wouldn't exist, tho.

We wouldn't have Vert either

 

[mitch1971]

If it doesn't interest you, ignore it.

 

[Shakka43]

Hard to ignore culture wars when narcissism has overtaken Western society and a few want forcefully to be the main characters in a planet we all share.

 

[GHound]

That is indeed what everyone says until it negatively impacts their favorite characters or stories.

 

[Stuart360]

Thats what clown world wants you to do though, ignore it and just accept it.
Sorry but there is a war on for humanity, and we are being pussified and brainwashed by design, by an ideology that goes against everyhting that used to be human and decent, and free..
If you're happy with that, you do you.

 

[TGO]

I would love to just discuss games but the Devs keep ramming the culture shit in their games so it's unavoidable unless you're just being ignorant to it.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Console wars 2008-2012 was a bloodbath scene I don’t think I’ve ever seen grown men (elpresador, samueltehg33k, etc.) fight over consoles. Today now is all excitement about vr, 4K etc.

 

[Shake Your Rump]

I come to Neogaf because I'm interested in video games.

I think most of us are. Most of us do not want to discuss the culture war going on. However, when the thread directly above yours is quoting a major developer as saying they need to "pull every lever" to add aspects of the culture war into games we would like to play, what choice do we have? We are treating it the same as any other negative aspect on the hobby we love: games as a service, micro transactions, predatory loot boxes, censorship, digital de-listing, and so on.

Replace "LGTBQ" with "in-game advertising", and you would see the same response.

 

[The_Observer]

Trust me, those of us who bitch and moan about this fucking woke brainwashing propaganda would like the most to avoid talking about it. But it’s impossible because it is destroying many things we love and the more we silent about it the worse it will get. That’s how we got here, because for a long time the silent majority, well, was silent.

 

[CLW]

Odds OP is sitting in she/her’s mom’s basement with purple hair and stroking her “woman penis” 85%

 

[R3TRODYCE]

Well said.

I don’t know who’s worse between both sides; All they do is bitch all day.

 

[Terenty]

Consume! Never question, never complain! Consume the slop!

 

[Toons]

I come to Neogaf because I'm interested in video games. I'm becoming very tired of threads about culture wars - diversity, inclusivity, wokeism, however you want to word it. Its not video game discussion, its bait and its designed to rile people up.

I hope I'm speaking for the silent majority who haven't "taken a side" in this so-called war and really just want to discuss video games without all this combative tangential stuff.

And to those who do want to spend the precious hours of their finite lives fruitlessly arguing about these things in a video game forum then...

Agreed. This sure isn't a battle ground and none of us soldiers. But too many here act as activists.

Its rarer for me to see posts even get real traction that DONT have to do with culture wars.

Ideally two people with completely different cultural perspectives can both love a game, and discuss the things they like about it without having to enter one of these such "battle lines"

But alas there's a difference between commenting on the nature of a trend you're noticing in media, and trying to sway its direction, reverse it, etc. Thats an important distinction. One is commentary, the other is activism.

 

[InterMusketeer]

But alas there's a difference between commenting on the nature of a trend you're noticing in media, and trying to sway its direction, reverse it, etc. Thats an important distinction. One is commentary, the other is activism.

Where do you draw that line? Between commenting/criticizing and activism? Do you think those things are separate for the developers and other groups within the industry who engage in activism as well?

 

[Aguero9320]

How about neither? The negativity and cynicism that has infected this place is exhausting. It’s hard not to get sucked in sometimes…

Feels like many here don’t even like games, they just want to argue and be right. I’ve been trying to not do that wherever possible. This is supposed to be a fun hobby…

 

[RedC]

Well said.

I don’t know who’s worse between both sides; All they do is bitch all day.

 

[Toons]

Where do you draw that line? Between commenting/criticizing and activism? Do you think those things are separate for the developers and other groups within the industry who engage in activism as well?

I dont think every single individual who wants representation is an activist, for starters. I think there are those that do though. And I also don't think all activism is automatically a bad thing, or that its presence on an artists medium is automatically a bad thing.

But the best activism is an action, not a reaction, and the best foundations of those discussions are not simply being anti the other thing, but having genuine and overall reasonable goals for changes they want to see in the industry.

There are some people working on games who fall into the trap of not doing this, like that one lady saying she wouldn't hire white people. And likewise there are users here for whom "pride flag in a game=woke=bad". Both of these are extremes that aren't conducive to an improvement of the gaming sphere but an endless clash of ideologies that refuse to gel. I dont think thats conducive to a productive commentary that seeks in good faith to see games improve and still factor in elements for all the people who may enjoy them. That also doesn't mean that everyone criticizing the inclusion of characters is automatically one of those types either.

I think the line is when it becomes not about finding a common ground but about "defeating" the "enemy" activism that seeks only to defeat the other guy usually fails, its message gets usurped by bad actors, or it crumbles on itself.

Edited to make my point more consice

 

[Fess]

Put the worst people and threads on ignore. It makes a difference.

I have a huge ignore list for console warriors. It helps but seeing people quoting ignored users mess up the board with that you’re ignoring content from this user text. Anything with an ignored user should not be shown for it to work properly.

Regarding culture wars it’s not something I can relate to irl so I’m just annoyed at western focused politics being pushed so aggressively into games.
Why not just let games be games? Just let me go pew pew pew on some aliens or whatever. It’s supposed to be escapism. Devs should use other platforms for real life politics.

 

[Humdinger]

[...] because it is destroying many things we love and the more we silent about it the worse it will get. That’s how we got here, because for a long time the silent majority, well, was silent.

Yeah, I agree. This is a bit of a stretch, but I'm thinking about what happened to the United Methodist Church recently. They had a conservative wing and a liberal/woke wing, battling for control. Issues related to diversity, inclusion, female pastors, LGBTG+, etc. The conservative wing saw the writing on the wall and bailed out. They "disaffiliated," meaning they left the UMC.

And what happened next? The woke brigade completely took over. Search "UMC general conference" if you want to see - everyone with their pronouns, the LGHDTV flags flying, the gay and lesbian pastors, the girl power celebrations, the "monitoring" committee encouraging members to report on each other for non-inclusive language. They've gone completely off the rails.

That's an example of what happens when you cede ground to the wokies. This is a religion to them, and they don't stop. They are relentless with it. They just keep pushing and pushing. They have no greater purpose in life than spreading their ideology. When you cede ground, they move right in and take over. (I'm aware that the videogame industry is not a church, so don't take my analogy too literally.)

That's why I think it's dangerous to hide your head in the sand and ignore it. Unless there is pushback, it will continue to grow, to metastasize.

Unlike a church, though, gaming companies are supposed to make money. Hopefully, that will stop things from getting too bad. Unless something produces a profit, it's going to eventually end up on the chopping block. But talking about the issue and pushing back is part of undermining those profits.

 

[yazenov]

Just admit you like the Mr. Freeze design, it's ok.

Excuse me, it's they/them freeze.

 

[Toons]

Yeah, I agree. This is a bit of a stretch, but I'm thinking about what happened to the United Methodist Church recently. They had a conservative wing and a liberal/woke wing, battling for control. Issues related to diversity, inclusion, female pastors, LGBTG+, etc. The conservative wing saw the writing on the wall and bailed out. They "disaffiliated," meaning they left the UMC.

And what happened next? The woke brigade completely took over. Search "UMC general conference" if you want to see - everyone with their pronouns, the LGHDTV flags flying, the gay and lesbian pastors, the girl power celebrations, the "monitoring" committee encouraging members to report on each other for non-inclusive language. They've gone completely off the rails.

I mean, it sounds like they amicably separated and now can both practice their way of worship in the way they want to. Theres only a problem here if you think only the conservative wing should be allowed to continue. Thats not how it works in America. Its a free country.

That's an example of what happens when you cede ground to the wokies. This is a religion to them, and they don't stop.

Pretty sure it was a religion for BOTH parties in your example.

They are relentless with it. They just keep pushing and pushing. They have no greater purpose in life than spreading their ideology. When you cede ground, they move right in and take over. (I'm aware that the videogame industry is not a church, so don't take my analogy too literally.)

Theres no version of this where everyone agrees on one thing. Thata simply never gonna happen. You can't just make people with different ideology not exist anymore. If they want to do things differently then there should be a bought space for both to coexist in separation if necessary.

You say "cede ground" like this is a one or the other but thats not how America works. There is no me, not you. Theres us, and the messiness that ensues. The pendulum swings back snd forth but people are always going to differ.

 

[Woggleman]

On one hand you have the Anita Sarkesian and Restera types who throw a fit whenever a game has a sexy woman or is too white or too male and on the other hand you have people who throw a fit whenever a game has an LGBT character or a strong woman who doesn't act like June Cleaver or look like a pornstar. I wish I could hit the mute button on both.

 

[InterMusketeer]

I think the line is when it becomes not about finding a common ground but about "defeating" the "enemy" activism that seeks only to defeat the other guy usually fails, its message gets usurped by bad actors, or it crumbles on itself.

I agree with you, but I think that line was crossed long ago, and not by shitposters on forums.

 

[Touch fuzZy. get BizZay]

I come to Neogaf because I'm interested in video games. I'm becoming very tired of threads about culture wars - diversity, inclusivity, wokeism, however you want to word it. Its not video game discussion, its bait and its designed to rile people up.

I hope I'm speaking for the silent majority who haven't "taken a side" in this so-called war and really just want to discuss video games without all this combative tangential stuff.

And to those who do want to spend the precious hours of their finite lives fruitlessly arguing about these things in a video game forum then...

If people with radical, harmful ideas didn't use their position in the industry to try and control what others can do/say/think there wouldn't be any culture wars and everything would be fine and dandy. The only reason there's a war is because those bad guys invaded our entertainment. Fight back or fun dies.

But everyone knows that at this late date.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

I'd much rather be informed about the bullshit seeping into and affecting this industry and know what studios' games to avoid, how to add my voice against wokeism, etc. than read the millionth post about how "my toy box is better than your toy box!!1! whaawhaawhaa"

Sure, but I'd say 2/3rds of the time people use "woke" to mean something they personally don't like, not something systemically wrong with a medium.

 

[Touch fuzZy. get BizZay]

Yep whenever media like gaming and movies are subverted by radical political types and used to try and control what people can do and say and think, you know what's just as bad? When people who would never do that complain about it on forums!