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[Snacks the sober sea lion]

Belfry Luna is easily the worst, most shoddily-designed area in the game. And I'm not even talking about the lame invasions. I mean that the design of it is firmly broken. Dark Souls is not a game about fighting hordes of enemies, and yet that's exactly what they did. 3 enemies simultaneously is not a good boss fight. And then even after you beat that, they put a pit with 7-8 dogs who aggro on you before you're even halfway down the ladder, ignore Alluring Skulls, and can't be shot with ranged weapons? And add in a red phantom with a spear. Thoroughly broken. Shouldn't have made it into the game at all.

 

[Jackben]

Belfry Luna is easily the worst, most shoddily-designed area in the game. And I'm not even talking about the lame invasions. I mean that the design of it is firmly broken. Dark Souls is not a game about fighting hordes of enemies, and yet that's exactly what they did. 3 enemies simultaneously is not a good boss fight. And then even after you beat that, they put a pit with 7-8 dogs who aggro on you before you're even halfway down the ladder, ignore Alluring Skulls, and can't be shot with ranged weapons? And add in a red phantom with a spear. Thoroughly broken. Shouldn't have made it into the game at all.

Nah but I agree with most of this. The area relies heavily on overwhelming you with enemies in a small space and is thus heavy in artificial difficulty. The gargoyles don't particularly pose a threat individually except for their fire breath or if more than one hits you at a time. Same with the dogs but add in the red phantom. It's artificially difficult in that it mostly relies on you just tanking hits and using wide swing attacks or getting lucky with your timed rolls and use of an AOE spell.

It's quite boring and only serves as a source of frustration.

 

[SeventhSon]

Belfry Luna is easily the worst, most shoddily-designed area in the game. And I'm not even talking about the lame invasions. I mean that the design of it is firmly broken. Dark Souls is not a game about fighting hordes of enemies, and yet that's exactly what they did. 3 enemies simultaneously is not a good boss fight. And then even after you beat that, they put a pit with 7-8 dogs who aggro on you before you're even halfway down the ladder, ignore Alluring Skulls, and can't be shot with ranged weapons? And add in a red phantom with a spear. Thoroughly broken. Shouldn't have made it into the game at all.

I agree.

 

[Overdoziz]

Belfry Luna is easily the worst, most shoddily-designed area in the game. And I'm not even talking about the lame invasions. I mean that the design of it is firmly broken. Dark Souls is not a game about fighting hordes of enemies, and yet that's exactly what they did. 3 enemies simultaneously is not a good boss fight. And then even after you beat that, they put a pit with 7-8 dogs who aggro on you before you're even halfway down the ladder, ignore Alluring Skulls, and can't be shot with ranged weapons? And add in a red phantom with a spear. Thoroughly broken. Shouldn't have made it into the game at all.

The Gargoyle fight was easily my favorite in my SL1 run so far. Having to constantly evade their attacks and time your healing and attacks right makes it a lot more interesting than any of the other fights. And I say that as someone who hated fights against multiple enemies in Dark Souls 1.

 

[Jackben]

Great place to farm humanity human effigies though at low level, since it's right next to a bonfire. Although Shrine of Amana is superior (sometimes dogs only drop Lost Souls whereas the water hollows drop effigies more frequently), it also requires more patience.

 

[Mistel]

Aah, forgot about those threads, seems I have many pages of laughs to catch up on Community really is the dark alley of gaf that no one enters :/

Hey Girlgaf is in community.

 

[EasyMode]

You can cheese the pack of dogs (minus the one on the platform) in Belfry Luna from the top of the ladder using Emit Force. It looks like the geometry will block the miracle, but as long as you're locked on it will hit.

 

[Gr1mLock]

Belfry Luna is easily the worst, most shoddily-designed area in the game. And I'm not even talking about the lame invasions. I mean that the design of it is firmly broken. Dark Souls is not a game about fighting hordes of enemies, and yet that's exactly what they did. 3 enemies simultaneously is not a good boss fight. And then even after you beat that, they put a pit with 7-8 dogs who aggro on you before you're even halfway down the ladder, ignore Alluring Skulls, and can't be shot with ranged weapons? And add in a red phantom with a spear. Thoroughly broken. Shouldn't have made it into the game at all.

That was one of the things i disliked as well. Too many bosses are in two's. Just ends up throwing too many variables into the mix and makes the fights seem random.

 

[Mistel]

That was one of the things i disliked as well. Too many bosses are in two's. Just ends up throwing too many variables into the mix and makes the fights seem random.

Although the skeleton lords are complete push overs, it did feel like it was just artificially extending the fight with their minions.

 

[Minamu]

Hey Girlgaf is in community.

What's Girlgaf? Relationship-Gaf? xD I only hang around my own dating-age OT4 in regular OT.

 

[Snacks the sober sea lion]

I think they misunderstood what makes boss fights against multiple enemies interesting. All of the multiple boss fights are against bosses who are essentially, or literally, the same. The Throne Duo and Gargoyles highlight it, with the fights basically being luck-based. You can only attack when the game says it's okay to attack, which, depending on how the AI is feeling, could be every 5 seconds or once a minute. It's just boring, as well as screwing over the already rather weak pure melee characters. There is no consistency. This is my 5th playthrough (dexterity, sorcery through NG+, quality with halberds, and now quality with two Caestus), and these bosses haven't become any more tolerable as I've gotten better at the game.

Skeleton Lords are interesting, but it's more of 3 average enemies with a weird quirk than an actual multi-boss fight.

 

[Xeroblade]

It would have helped if they included more capra demon and less smelter demon.

 

[KoreanBarbecue]

God damn strike weapons are ridiculous. I upgraded a reinforced club to +10 and it just DESTROYS armored enemies even in NG+, I bet two-handed it would 2-shot in New Game. I think I'll keep it in my off-hand for switching out against big guys alongside my Sun Sword.

Indeed, it does. Just wait until you get the Great Club. At +10 2H, on NG, literally the only thing that cannot be one hit are bosses.

 

[Laurentius]

It would have helped if they included more capra demon and less smelter demon.

=O

I hated Capra Demon, and actually quite enjoy Smelter Demon.

As for the other bosses, I don't mind the ones with multiple bosses too much (Sentinels, Gargoyles), although the O&S way of doing it is far more interesting. The ones that bother me are the ones with all of the regular enemies that you have to fight/dodge. (Freja, Executioner's Chariot, Rat-Sif, etc.)

EDIT: Saw this on /r/darksouls2:

The character creator is too strong. (Albeit a pain to work with.)

 

[Soulhouf]

That was one of the things i disliked as well. Too many bosses are in two's. Just ends up throwing too many variables into the mix and makes the fights seem random.

I don't think the number is the problem. Demon's Souls has a few bosses with numbers (Tower Knight, Phalanx, Fool Idol, Man Eater, Storm King) and yet they felt good because the arenas were so well designed, the enemies weren't randomly placed and served for a purpose. The bosses themselves had something special and memorable.
The heavy influence of Lovecraft/Berserk/Michael Moorcock contributes a lot to the general atmosphere making it feel great.
I miss all that in DSII...

 

[Xeroblade]

=O

I hated Capra Demon, and actually quite enjoy Smelter Demon.

As for the other bosses, I don't mind the ones with multiple bosses too much (Sentinels, Gargoyles), although the O&S way of doing it is far more interesting. The ones that bother me are the ones with all of the regular enemies that you have to fight/dodge. (Freja, Executioner's Chariot, Rat-Sif, etc.)

i hated the capra demon too at first but once you fight him in an open area he is cake. As for our friendly demon Smelter, I guess I have just struggled with him too many times. As a phantom he seems easy, then you head in feeling confident and 2 flame sword swings later you are done.

 

[Mistel]

What's Girlgaf? Relationship-Gaf? xD I only hang around my own dating-age OT4 in regular OT.

It's this.

 

[zkylon]

smelter demon is the best boss in the game, if not the only really good one

 

[Gr1mLock]

Although the skeleton lords are complete push overs, it did feel like it was just artificially extending the fight with their minions.

Yeah it sort of becomes a battle against the mechanics of the game. I think one or two encounters with multiple enemies in a boss fight is ok for the sake of mix it up, but for a game that is supposed to be about methodical play there were just too many 'teams' for my taste.

 

[Dr. Kaos]

I've been playing this on PS3 and I kindof want to double dip and buy it on PC.

Are there any good deals for a digital version of the game?

 

[AngryMoth]

Ela might be about to set a new WR of all bosses.

http://www.twitch.tv/elajjaz

 

[Mistel]

smelter demon is the best boss in the game, if not the only really good one

Even with the broken hit boxes? I'd say that the last giant is good it's a nice fight along with a nice theme.

Yeah it sort of becomes a battle against the mechanics of the game. I think one or two encounters with multiple enemies in a boss fight is ok for the sake of mix it up, but for a game that is supposed to be about methodical play there were just too many 'teams' for my taste.

It's a nice idea but with a haphazard execution that really stifles the fights. Skeleton lords were just pretty weak enemies that had minions to back them up. Much more could be done with the concept, it did really feel out of place geographically too.

 

[Xeroblade]

smelter demon is the best boss in the game, if not the only really good one

I'll take the ruin sentinels over the smelter demon any day.

 

[Maxwood]

They are a melee character.

Yeah, so? So is Sir Maxwood. That doesn't stop him from firing some weak arrows to lure those bastards out.
Or go buy some throwing knives and use them with your binoculars.

I alway's carry some sort of ranged weapon with me in Souls games, for backup. Doesn't matter how weak it is.

 

[Minamu]

Pursuer, Sentinels, Smelter, Darklurker, Flexile are some of my favorites. I think the last giant is a pretty good first boss too, if not for the utter pointlessness of blocking his attacks. As a souls veteran, most bosses are tame, but quite a few show signs of smart and interest design choices (Being chased by Pursuer, not seeing more than half of the last giant, small arena fight with flexile, Darklurker's split etc).

 

[Booshka]

Ela might be about to set a new WR of all bosses.

http://www.twitch.tv/elajjaz

Yep, 1:38:15 is the time for his all bosses run he just finished.

There should be a highlight soon.

 

[garath]

Pursuer, Sentinels, Smelter, Darklurker, Flexile are some of my favorites. I think the last giant is a pretty good first boss too, if not for the utter pointlessness of blocking his attacks. As a souls veteran, most bosses are tame, but quite a few show signs of smart and interest design choices (Being chased by Pursuer, not seeing more than half of the last giant, small arena fight with flexile, Darklurker's split etc).

Pursuer was a good one. Sentinels I cheesed. Flexile got stuck on the mast and I just pelted it with arrows until it died. Pretty anti-climatic. Haven't seen the other two yet.

I actually think it's pretty cool that the bosses can be fought straight up and taken down by some slick method as well. If you can find that method, it's pretty satisfying.

 

[zkylon]

Even with the broken hit boxes? I'd say that the last giant is good it's a nice fight along with a nice theme.

yeah last giant is really good too, he's very scary and when i saw one of the giant trees later it really freaked me out

i liked the scorpion lady, pursuer, old iron king and lost sinner too. darklurker was ok, guardian dragon too.

mirror knight looks fun but i beat him with a summon back when i didn't know quite well how to do the benhart quest.

but none of them really made me go all hell yeah when i beat them like smelter demon.

 

[Laurentius]

I might be in the minority, but I've pretty much enjoyed all of the bosses, except the ones that throw hordes of enemies at you. (Although I actually didn't mind the Royal Rat Vanguard, for some reason...)

 

[Xeroblade]

but none of them really made me go all hell yeah when i beat them like smelter demon.

I will 100% agree with you on that. I stood up and screamed fuck yeah! I was so pumped that the pursuer ended up surprising me and then killing me after.

 

[Mistel]

Yeah that was exactly what I just did. I was standing 5 meters away from the 1st bonfire hiding in plain sight as an acid tank and the sentinel couldn't see me even though he was on the direct connecting platform.

Most people seem to not pay attention to their surroundings very much surprising really.

Yeah, so? So is Sir Maxwood. That doesn't stop him from firing some weak arrows to lure those bastards out.
Or go buy some throwing knives and use them with your binoculars.

I alway's carry some sort of ranged weapon with me in Souls games, for backup. Doesn't matter how weak it is.

Amana is just an awful area within the game. Punishing but fair is fine which it is not. You should design the areas so they are doable by what ever way you decide to play not just "go get a bow".

 

[Minamu]

Considering From nerfed Amana, I think the discussion is kinda moot. From agrees with those of us who thought the area was stupidly hard. I believe the devs ought to have the final say in such matters, right?

 

[zkylon]

ok this is my ranking (mega spoilers):

Spoiler

smelter demon: i love him, requires good dodging and has fun attacks with enough telegraphing to be enjoyable even tho they're mostly 1 hit ko
lost sinner: i like the one on one fight, she's super agile and reminds me a bit of artorias and the lighting the room thing is pretty clever. pyromancers in ng+ kinda ruin it tho
scorpion lady: good variety of attacks and for an arachnophobic she's pretty fucking frightening.
old iron king: he's a cool gimmicky boss fight and i like attacking giant hands
last giant: super scary, his intro cutscene is great and in general a really cool moody fight
guardian dragon: i love fighting dragons, wish there were more
pursuer: fun fight, lots of dodging and the early encounter was pretty cool
throne watcher & defender: a 2v1 fight i do enjoy cos their attacks don't feel too bullshitty and they're both pretty cool designs
darklurker: all dem spells
mirror knight: this might've ranked higher if i've done it without a summon but everything about mirror knight is pretty cool
vestaldt: i liked the design, felt a lot like fighting the blind dude from 4-2 demon's souls. really easy tho
flexile sentry: tight quarters thing is nice but super easy
jabba the hutt: only for the get-naked attack
nashandra: her design is great, gives me the chills like nito but the fight itself is embarrassingly lame
skelly lords: gimmick on this fight is fun, nerfed wheel skellies are kinda sad but much appreciated
ruin sentries: i don't usually like mob boss fights but this one's kinda fun. i killed them all without dropping out of the platform on ng+ so it's not that bad
dragonriders: it's an alright fight, cool arena and fun to sunbro and help people
prowling magus and the congregation: i liked rolling around fighting zombies but again super easy. reminded me of the 3-1 boss from demons
rat vanguard: would be much more frustrating if the bonfire wasn't right next to the fog gate. i kinda like swinging a sword and killing like 6 rats
the rotten: i don't even remember much about this guy except trying not to get burned and unblockable cleaver swings.
dragonrider: super easy, didn't even feel like a boss fight
rat authority: this one is super rng-dependent but feels really good when you get it
snake lady: very boring fight, her story's interesting but eh...
gargoyles: i hate all gargoyle fights in all souls games and this is no difference
chariot: shitty gimmick fight made worse by buggy alcove thingies and a very annoying run-to-the-boss
spider: arachnophobia, maybe she was ok but i just sunbro'd and closed my eyes
ancient dragon: only thing worse than spiders is this guy. nothing fun about him, just pure rng

not final or anything but just some thoughts on all the bosses as i appreciated them. i'm surprised i liked them more than i thought when thinking back, but still pretty disappointed with the overall quality and difficulty of the bosses.

 

[Gr1mLock]

I don't think the number is the problem. Demon's Souls has a few bosses with numbers (Tower Knight, Phalanx, Fool Idol, Man Eater, Storm King) and yet they felt good because the arenas were so well designed, the enemies weren't randomly placed and served for a purpose. The bosses themselves had something special and memorable.
The heavy influence of Lovecraft/Berserk/Michael Moorcock contributes a lot to the general atmosphere making it feel great.
I miss all that in DSII...

There's definitely a clear distinction between multiple enemies in a boss fight that were designed to be a boss fight from ground up vs just stacking strong enemies together. Identity wise included.

 

[zkylon]

btw while the dogs in belfry luna can't be hit with arrows or magic, throwing firebombs at them actually works. you can aggro a couple of them by getting halfway down the ladder then walk up and start throwing bombs at em

i took 3 or 4 down like that then just finished off the rest

and yeah both belfry areas are pretty annoying as the pvp there isn't avoidable in any way (it would be better if you only got invaded if you hit the little blue dwarves or something so you could just maybe run past them)

gargoyles fight is kinda frustrating too but it's the trip there that gets me more than anything, just having to deal with them backstabbing bellbros

 

[Sullichin]

Belfry Luna is easily the worst, most shoddily-designed area in the game. And I'm not even talking about the lame invasions. I mean that the design of it is firmly broken. Dark Souls is not a game about fighting hordes of enemies, and yet that's exactly what they did. 3 enemies simultaneously is not a good boss fight. And then even after you beat that, they put a pit with 7-8 dogs who aggro on you before you're even halfway down the ladder, ignore Alluring Skulls, and can't be shot with ranged weapons? And add in a red phantom with a spear. Thoroughly broken. Shouldn't have made it into the game at all.

ok this is my ranking (mega spoilers):

Spoiler

smelter demon: i love him, requires good dodging and has fun attacks with enough telegraphing to be enjoyable even tho they're mostly 1 hit ko
lost sinner: i like the one on one fight, she's super agile and reminds me a bit of artorias and the lighting the room thing is pretty clever. pyromancers in ng+ kinda ruin it tho
scorpion lady: good variety of attacks and for an arachnophobic she's pretty fucking frightening.
old iron king: he's a cool gimmicky boss fight and i like attacking giant hands
last giant: super scary, his intro cutscene is great and in general a really cool moody fight
guardian dragon: i love fighting dragons, wish there were more
pursuer: fun fight, lots of dodging and the early encounter was pretty cool
throne watcher & defender: a 2v1 fight i do enjoy cos their attacks don't feel too bullshitty and they're both pretty cool designs
darklurker: all dem spells
mirror knight: this might've ranked higher if i've done it without a summon but everything about mirror knight is pretty cool
vestaldt: i liked the design, felt a lot like fighting the blind dude from 4-2 demon's souls. really easy tho
flexile sentry: tight quarters thing is nice but super easy
jabba the hutt: only for the get-naked attack
nashandra: her design is great, gives me the chills like nito but the fight itself is embarrassingly lame
skelly lords: gimmick on this fight is fun, nerfed wheel skellies are kinda sad but much appreciated
ruin sentries: i don't usually like mob boss fights but this one's kinda fun. i killed them all without dropping out of the platform on ng+ so it's not that bad
dragonriders: it's an alright fight, cool arena and fun to sunbro and help people
prowling magus and the congregation: i liked rolling around fighting zombies but again super easy. reminded me of the 3-1 boss from demons
rat vanguard: would be much more frustrating if the bonfire wasn't right next to the fog gate. i kinda like swinging a sword and killing like 6 rats
the rotten: i don't even remember much about this guy except trying not to get burned and unblockable cleaver swings.
dragonrider: super easy, didn't even feel like a boss fight
rat authority: this one is super rng-dependent but feels really good when you get it
snake lady: very boring fight, her story's interesting but eh...
gargoyles: i hate all gargoyle fights in all souls games and this is no difference
chariot: shitty gimmick fight made worse by buggy alcove thingies and a very annoying run-to-the-boss
spider: arachnophobia, maybe she was ok but i just sunbro'd and closed my eyes
ancient dragon: only thing worse than spiders is this guy. nothing fun about him, just pure rng

not final or anything but just some thoughts on all the bosses as i appreciated them. i'm surprised i liked them more than i thought when thinking back, but still pretty disappointed with the overall quality and difficulty of the bosses.

Thanks for listing all of the bosses... makes it easier to come up with my own list.
I'm disappointed with the bosses in DSII. I really love the game, but the first one definitely has a better set of bosses. Nothing in this game touches O&S, Four Kings, or Artorias. Some bosses (Mirror Knight and Vesdalt in particular) are awesome but too easy. Vesdalt is a better fight in NG+. Mirror Knight remains a pushover.

Spoiler

Darklurker
Smelter Demon
Vendrick
Lost Sinner
Vesdalt
Old Iron King
Ruin Sentinels
Last Giant
Chariot
Mirror Knight
The Rotten
Gargoyles
Throne Watcher
[every other boss I haven't mentioned except for Ancient Dragon]
Ancient Dragon

 

[Orochinagis]

Even with the broken hit boxes? I'd say that the last giant is good it's a nice fight along with a nice theme.

The squeleton boss theme is amazing but there are really few chorus in this OST so far

 

[Hayabusi]

I have to say, the view in

Spoiler

Aldias Keep

is amazing. I hope next gen Dark Souls will have more of that scale! (I know, the

Spoiler

trees

are disgusting..)

 

[Mistel]

Gargoyles fight is kinda frustrating too but it's the trip there that gets me more than anything, just having to deal with them backstabbing bellbros

A happy trespasser is a backstabbed trespasser...

The squeleton boss theme is amazing but there are really few chorus in this OST so far

Pursuers has to be one of the better chorus themes. Shame we can't get the set it has.

 

[zkylon]

A happy trespasser is a backstabbed trespasser...

just so you know, i joined the bellbros

then immediately after mercilessly whipped the bellguy to death

not so funny now that you're dead eh little man?

 

[Red Liquorice]

I used around 30 amber herbs in total. Mostly because I wanted the Dark Weapon buff on my Santier's Spear. Buying 99 is a good idea, but not really needed I think. Perhaps if you're pure spells. 99 repair powders was a really bad investment, because of the spear :lol Only used 2 or 3 for the other equipments.

I found this too, I did so much prep stocking up on stuff and I barely used any. Which is why I thought that it would be fun and perfectly viable to do a no bonfire/no death run on NG and using simply the items you find along the way, plus the odd purchase (as they're limited at the start). Not that I'm going to do that, but I'd surely watch a video, lol

Congrats on the plats and no bonfire run

 

[Mistel]

just so you know, i joined the bellbros

then immediately after mercilessly whipped the bellguy to death

not so funny now that you're dead eh little man?

I punched both of them to death with my fists seemed fitting. Shame there's not much gore in this really would of made it much more fun.

 

[Xeroblade]

Is the PVP area still the bridge in Iron Keep? I just don't understand why.

 

[zkylon]

Is the PVP area still the bridge in Iron Keep? I just don't understand why.

well if i had to guess it's an arena like place with a nearby bonfire. the two alenne knights are hard to aggro too.

can't think of many other places like that

 

[AngryMoth]

Is the PVP area still the bridge in Iron Keep? I just don't understand why.

Cool location plus right next the dragon bro covenant. I don't go there anymore though cos it's also a very popular spot for gankers

 

[mickcenary]

Best sorceries for PvE/PvP, Gaf? 'Tis the one thing I'm yet to dabble in and I need to change it up from Hexes.

Grazie.

 

[Sullichin]

Is the PVP area still the bridge in Iron Keep? I just don't understand why.

Heide's Tower first bonfire is really active in NG+. Cardinal Tower in FotFG is a PVP spot too but doesn't seem as active.

 

[Xeroblade]

well if i had to guess it's an arena like place with a nearby bonfire. the two alenne knights are hard to aggro too.

can't think of many other places like that

Whats wrong with the open area outside of cardinal tower where the pursuer drops in? You have so much more space to move around. but i guess the bonfire helps out too, didnt think of that.

 

[Mistel]

Best sorceries and spells for PvE/PvP, Gaf? 'Tis the one thing I'm yet to dabble in and I need to change it up from Hexes.

Grazie.

Soul greatsword for one.

well if i had to guess it's an arena like place with a nearby bonfire. the two alenne knights are hard to aggro too.

Imagine if you had undead rapport pyromancy from the first, being flanked by the Alonne knights would make a good screenshot.

 

[AngryMoth]

Best sorceries and spells for PvE/PvP, Gaf? 'Tis the one thing I'm yet to dabble in and I need to change it up from Hexes.

Grazie.

No sorceries are worth using in pvp imo and the only offensive miracle I'd consider is WotG.

Come to think of it it's kind of ridiculous how much better hexes are than the other magic disciplines. GRS, resonant weapon, affinity, dark fog...