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Dark Souls II |OT++| Bearer of...Seek...Seek...Lest

E

ElTopo

Banned
Fume Knight is a great boss but him being a recycled Artorias takes the piss out of it a little bit.

Zocano said:
Second DLC is on par with Sen's and Painted World.
Click to expand...

It's really nothing like Sen's or the Painted World. Neither of those had constant mobs or ambushes. There weren't traps either. So I really don't get the comparison.
 
Z

Zocano

Member
AlexSA2 said:
Fume Knight is a great boss but him being a recycled Artorias takes the piss out of it a little bit.



It's really nothing like Sen's or the Painted World. Neither of those had constant mobs or ambushes. There weren't traps either. So I really don't get the comparison.
Click to expand...

You say that like menial mobs of enemies is a bad thing... and say it like Painted World didn't have mobs of enemies either.

The enemies in Iron Crown are fairly weak (unless you're going there super early) and you fight at most 4 at a time. Plus they give you a way to deal with the mobs.

Ambushes are a good and fun so decrying them is real silly.

Spoilering for level design talk (Iron Crown DLC)
The first half of the DLC is fairly straight forward, yah, but the second half is super cool with how you scale down and up once you've turned the place on. It's not as twisted and winding as Sen's but it's got a lot of exploration goodness in it that most levels don't give you.
 
E

ElTopo

Banned
The 2nd DLC over did it with mobs and ambushes. The mobs in Painted World were pretty easily dispatched and they didn't really ambush you either. The 2nd DLC had its moments and getting the elevators to work was fun. But the gauntlets are just badly done. The one leading to Fume was fine. But the other two were horrible.
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Did all the giant memories. The flame chuckers are assholes. Guess I should do the dragon then Vendrick?
 
2

2AdEPT

Member
chunk3rvd said:
Sorry for the crappy phone pic but how do I get to these 2 items? Also, how do I activate the lift in the room below?



All I have left are Elena and Sinh so worried that I've missed a path somewhere. I've not been to the Cave of the Dead yet so if it's something I'll find along that path then let me know but don't tell me where! Thanks
Click to expand...
How many bonfires you find so far?? Not sure you have done much of anything if you havent been to the Cave, nor elana, nor Sinh. Pretty sure the lift is achieved simply by progressing far enough...you got bigger things to build than the mechanism for that particular lift! ;) keep going
down then up
? You'll get both those items and a few other surprises by then. I didnt get to the bosses you mentioned until after this part was complete....in fact pretty sure you cant meet those bosses until you figure out the preliminary path to get to this part, so yeah you definitely missed a path somewhere if you have completed the whole level except for the bosses. Oh yeah...now I remember....the path you seek is not really hidden, but you cant progress without finding a
key
item....that's all Ill say without spoilers......check your
inventory

Laurentius said:
Oh man, this is brilliant:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9mfbhLySdU&list=UUTJInu-7PDDsWA26xcWW6KA

(There are English subtitles.)

EDIT: Watching some of his other stuff, and holy shit, how have I never seen any of this before?
Click to expand...

LOL...good stuff...lots of love for solaire.....my fav has to be when solaire in the living flesh takes on the Demon's mobs with the intro to Demons music.
 
R

Red Liquorice

Member
Zocano said:
First DLC is on par with Demon's Souls level design (that is, it's better than anything Dark Souls had).

Second DLC is on par with Sen's and Painted World.
Click to expand...
I think I've done almost everything in the first DLC apart from any bosses and whilst I don't agree that the level design is quite that good, it has been fun finding all the switches and triggers, some in the second part are really well hidden. In terms of level design this area has been one of the best in DS2 up there with Lost Bastille for me. I don't like the colour scheme of the whole place it reminds me of Doors of Pharros and whilst the scale is great, pyrmaids great, it's just the drab colour scheme, not dark enough to be gloomy, too washed out to give any impact.

Enemies are a completely different story, there is no change here from the main game to me, I think they stink.
 
Z

Zocano

Member
Red Liquorice said:
I think I've done almost everything in the first DLC apart from any bosses and whilst I don't agree that the level design is quite that good, it has been fun finding all the switches and triggers, some in the second part are really well hidden. In terms of level design this area has been one of the best in DS2 up there with Lost Bastille for me. I don't like the colour scheme of the whole place it reminds me of Doors of Pharros and whilst the scale is great, pyrmaids great, it's just the drab colour scheme, not dark enough to be gloomy, too washed out to give any impact.

Enemies are a completely different story, there is no change here from the main game to me, I think they stink.
Click to expand...

I dunno.

One of the biggest common factors (that I see) for people shitting on Dark Souls 2's level design is how it looks (moreso than how it functions) and... that seems really unfair. Yah, it has a lot of impact on atmosphere, but I felt most of Dark Souls 2's levels succeed in spite of looking drab (where as most seem to like to shit on the levels mostly just to how they look).

Like Earthen Peak and Tseldora are actually really good levels but they also are some of the games drabbest and muddied. So people like to shit on it exactly for those reasons (when the actual level design is quite fun, specifically, Tseldora).


Also, as an aside, I usually try and be on the defensive when arguing level design because, very specifically with the Souls games, level design is just so hard to argue against. I feel nearly all the levels in the Souls games are decent to some extent and rarely shitty (plain maybe, and those are typically the ones I describe as "weak"). I'll slip up and shit on certain levels mostly because I get really fucking frustrated on the massive brigade out to shit on everything Dark Souls 2.

Anyway, I absolutely loved the (enemy spoiler in Sunken Crown DLC)
phantom enemies
and thought they were a super cool little twist on enemies. Yah there are fairly plain enemies aside from the one I named but I felt the level design pulled its weight far more and put the enemies in interesting areas to fight and that ended up making the plain enemies fun to fight because of the environment (and a certain gimmick in Iron Crown made it fun to fight those mobs).

I'll definitely agree the "co-op" areas of both DLCs are the weakest but I have an easy time not letting them hamper my overall enjoyment of the DLCs because they are so apparently optional.
 
Z

Zocano

Member
HK-47 said:
I'm miffed we never actually got to enter the bright stone mines
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure what you enter are the mines... I mean the whole area is a dig site.

Then the spider-infested cave is probably the deepest point (where they found the long dead dragon).
 
I

ilium

Member
Zocano said:
I'm pretty sure what you enter are the mines... I mean the whole area is a dig site.

Then the spider-infested cave is probably the deepest point (where they found the long dead dragon).
Click to expand...

Yep. And if i remember right some enemies at the beginning wield pickaxes. And the tents indicate some sort of expedition. So it makes sense that you enter a dig site. That's how i understood it at least.
 
M

Mistel

Banned
ilium said:
Yep. And if i remember right some enemies at the beginning wield pickaxes. And the tents indicate some sort of expedition. So it makes sense that you enter a dig site. That's how i understood it at least.
Click to expand...
The tents are the royal army encampment. The peasants are just hollows from brightstone which I assume where their tools came from. There's the porcine peasant right near end of the area.
 
C

Coriolanus

Banned
Zocano said:
I dunno.

One of the biggest common factors (that I see) for people shitting on Dark Souls 2's level design is how it looks (moreso than how it functions) and... that seems really unfair. Yah, it has a lot of impact on atmosphere, but I felt most of Dark Souls 2's levels succeed in spite of looking drab (where as most seem to like to shit on the levels mostly just to how they look).

Like Earthen Peak and Tseldora are actually really good levels but they also are some of the games drabbest and muddied. So people like to shit on it exactly for those reasons (when the actual level design is quite fun, specifically, Tseldora).
Click to expand...
Earthen Peak, sure, that place is very well designed. Looks like muddy mud, but very well designed.

Tseldora, sadly, is considerably marred by the fastcasting homing sniper mages, which really shit on pure melee characters. Probably the reason why From gave the player an option to bypass them completely. Add that the spider-zombies aren't particularly fun to fight, and...welp.

I'd say the most disappointing area is Heide's Keep. Looks terrific, has nearly nothing to do in it.
Well, undead wharf is kinda crap too. Seeing that place was really weird, gave a super theme park feel to the game. Has a nice mechanic with the pharros lighthouse, but that's about it.
 
R

Ruuppa

Member
Coriolanus said:
Well, undead wharf is kinda crap too. Seeing that place was really weird, gave a super theme park feel to the game. Has a nice mechanic with the pharros lighthouse, but that's about it.
Click to expand...

The wharf does feel like a theme park, like a Pirates of the Varang set from Siegmeyerland or something. It fits near perfectly now that the idea is in my head.
 
Z

Zocano

Member
Coriolanus said:
Earthen Peak, sure, that place is very well designed. Looks like muddy mud, but very well designed.

Tseldora, sadly, is considerably marred by the fastcasting homing sniper mages, which really shit on pure melee characters. Probably the reason why From gave the player an option to bypass them completely. Add that the spider-zombies aren't particularly fun to fight, and...welp.

I'd say the most disappointing area is Heide's Keep. Looks terrific, has nearly nothing to do in it.
Well, undead wharf is kinda crap too. Seeing that place was really weird, gave a super theme park feel to the game. Has a nice mechanic with the pharros lighthouse, but that's about it.
Click to expand...

I have a hard time being negative of Tseldora because, unless you're coming from the bottom, you can handle the mages quite easily. Or at least I wasn't really annoyed by them (my first playthrough was a super greatsword man).

I really like narrow canyon levels, that we really don't get a lot of, and the level was really intricate to me because of it.

I know the specific area with a loooot of sniper mages but, again, I only thought it was a problem if you're coming from the bottom bonfire and at that point you're probably just running for the boss instead of methodically exploring.

I like No-Man's Wharf but yah it's not suuuper great. I like the light-fearing enemies, though, but they make me wish to see what the game would have been prioring lighting-engine downgrade.

Speaking of which, I actually super love The Gutter because of it. First time you're in it's pitch black but venturing through with a torch and lighting the area makes it way more manageable each successive pass. It's one of my favorite parts to play through (even if it's super short when you know where to go) each time.
 
E

ElTopo

Banned
The only part of Brightstone Cove that sucks is trying to get to Ornifex and dodge the shots by the mages and try not to aggro the spiders and have them follow you in. Everything else about that stage is fair I think.
 
R

Ruuppa

Member
AlexSA2 said:
The only part of Brightstone Cove that sucks is trying to get to Ornifex and dodge the shots by the mages and try not to aggro the spiders and have them follow you in. Everything else about that stage is fair I think.
Click to expand...

Except the inability to backtrack back up without warping.
 
V

v1perz53

Member
Zocano said:
I have a hard time being negative of Tseldora because, unless you're coming from the bottom, you can handle the mages quite easily. Or at least I wasn't really annoyed by them (my first playthrough was a super greatsword man).
Click to expand...

I mentioned before, my least favorite thing in a Souls game is when they punish you for exploring with one way paths. Tseldora is an example of this, there are branching paths followed by zip lines that mean that you cannot go back and go the other way without using a feather/homeward bone or finding a new bonfire at the bottom and respawning all the enemies. I really like in a Souls game knowing that if you kill things they stay dead until you rest at a bonfire, so that you can make areas safe, so I hate when they require you to respawn the areas just to finish exploring, and that you cannot make the area safe again because you were forced to go the other way.

And the mages aren't bad if you are prepared for them. If you are playing a melee only character that does not have any crossbow bolts/arrows (which is perfectly reasonable for someone who hasn't played before to not know how useful it is to keep ranged stuff at hand), the mages can actually homing soulmass you mid zipline and knock you off. And the branching paths thing strikes again, there are some that you cannot get to to fight in melee without being unable to get to others. Then you have perpetually alive mages firing non stop balls at you.

Honestly, I just personally found Tseldora to be about the worst area in the game. A mix of grey, beige and brown colors which was very drab and boring, drop down exploration which didn't allow you to fully explore without respawning enemies, homing soulmass mages everywhere, and a whole bunch of "gotcha!" ambushes with enemies popping out of the sand or spiders coming out of every wall orifice. The web path to Freja also suffers all the same problems and is equally annoying. One way exploration and spider ambushes galore. The place actually gets a lot better on NG+ because I think the
Freja ambush
actually adds a lot, but that additional phantom at the bottom is cheap. The only way Tseldora could be worse is if the whole thing took place in narrow hallways and nothing else.

All that said, I guess it shows how level design in Souls games is above average overall, as my absolute least favorite level in this case still doesn't bother me all that much now when I know the best way through it.
 
R

Ruuppa

Member
miladesn said:
http://www.famitsu.com/news/201409/18061358.html

DLC#3 pics.

looks cool
Click to expand...

Dark Souls meets Frozen crossover?

Looks like Drangleic in the past, during some winter or whatnot. There's the unbroken big bridge/aqueduct, a big castle with a similar architecture.. I'm calling it: Drangleic in the past.

Edit: Active Golems, and you can actually see two of those bridges/aqueducts going through mountains and forests in one of the pictures. If it isn't Drangleic, I'm a lobster.
 
F

Foggy

Member
Drangleic before Vendrick brought back whatever he was supposed to bring back?

Future Drangleic? You must retrieve your future crown after being corrupted :O
 
I

ilium

Member
It sure looks like drangleic castle with the bridge and all. But why would we get the ivory crown here? Maybe castle was build on top another Kings castle? We'll See..
 
B

bodyofanamerican

Member
Don't forget Lost Bastille. I thought that was so wonderfully designed and intricate. I love when Souls games pop you out somewhere familiar when you're just finishing an area that you had no idea even connected to the place you were familiar with.
 
I

Iva Demilcol

Member
I like how the golems are kicking the chosen undead's ass in one of the pictures.

The metaphor didn't go unnoticed :p


I hope that something awesome happens after the end of the third DLC. I want to fight Vendrick again and make him go hollow :p
 
O

Orochinagis

Member
Zocano said:
I'm pretty sure what you enter are the mines... I mean the whole area is a dig site.

Then the spider-infested cave is probably the deepest point (where they found the long dead dragon).
Click to expand...

Its more like a quarry site rather than the mines; I always wanted to climb that area but you never go close to the digging site but go to the duke's house instead


miladesn said:
http://www.famitsu.com/news/201409/18061358.html

DLC#3 pics.

looks cool
Click to expand...

Lets see.....golems statues, DS1 textures, the kitchen from DS1 returns,Iron keep tower and the chariot horses without hair.
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Zocano said:
First DLC is on par with Demon's Souls level design (that is, it's better than anything Dark Souls had).

Second DLC is on par with Sen's and Painted World.
Click to expand...

These are some GREAT compliments... can someone confirm if true or not?
 
G

Guevara

Member
Yoshichan said:
These are some GREAT compliments... can someone confirm if true or not?
Click to expand...

Very memorably areas, probably more interesting than 90% of Dark Souls II level design. Well worth $10/each in my opinion. However I do think these areas have a few annoying gameplay decisions I disagree with:

Sunken King
  • One of the boss fights is annoying
    (Gank Squad)
  • Enemies seem to hit harder than they need to, just to justify this being an end game area
Iron King
  • I'm a very attentive and slow player, but
    there's no clue at all about the enemies hidden in ash. Not a big deal, but bad design.
  • In a way you are penalized for exploring
    prior to fighting the Fume knight, if you use all your Smelter Wedges in other areas
Very minor complaints over all.
 
O

Orochinagis

Member
Yoshichan said:
These are some GREAT compliments... can someone confirm if true or not?
Click to expand...

The first DLC is about exploring, getting into the swtich mechanics to rise or lower buildings to access unreachable areas and get loot so you can forget about goint A to B point mentality and just explore at your will.

Pros

-Returning senses of exploring
-Enemies somewhat placed in strategic places to add pressure
-Good ambientation
-Interconected design returns
-Awareness design returns
-Good gear for medium, heavy armor playes
-Good spells for Hexes and Pyro

Cons

-Not pure class friendly so you have to go hibryd to access some hidden areas
-Some elevators leads to no end areas so you cant go back on foot
-Some of the design dont make sense (rock based mesoamerican empire yet using metal in his medieval knights, a bonfire in a fullcrowed mobs because farm)
-Reskinned bosses
-OP gear for early classes
-Reskinned Hexe
-Retcon Lore
-Enemies have cheap tactics to become "hard"

-------------

Irong King

The second DLC have a bad impression for me, its like you are playing the Heide's area with some narrows corridors filled with enemies yet the mechanic of collecting fragments of the the soul of a boss is somewhat interesting pushing yo to explore to get it but punishing for exploring more than the devs intended to explore so its a HUGE flaw in their design

Pros

-The ambientation is new and refreshing, feels like a new area
-Collecting fragments of a soul is a new mechanic twist
-Enemies reacts to the statue to become even harder if you play passive
-The chorus girls from DS1 returns for an epic boss BGM
-Bosses pushing you to think and changes your tactics

Cons

-Pyromancy and Poison are the king here
-Horrible, horrible design to face enemies aka Iron passage
-Bad punishment for going exploring out of the box dev's intended way of playing the game
-Iron Passage
-No Pure builds allowed in this DLC, forcing you to switch.
-OP gears to make the "harders" areas on its own DLC a laugh
-Lore Retcon
-Invader's Retcon mechanic
-
Smelter Demon 2.0
-Finally understanding the true ending is via DLC.

In the end the DLC are way better than the vanilla game and have a good challenge compared to the difficulty in the normal game yet there are things that makes you feel unneasy about the DLC. Like enemies having sometimes zero poise or using unrealistic moves to kill you and have a insane damage to compensate the mid difficulty of the game (NG) to highly raising the bar with some bosses if you are nor careful enough like the Sunken King bosses.
 
L

Laurentius

Member
What I think I loved most about the first DLC is that you get to explore a fucking pyramid. Pyramids have always fascinated me, especially after I learned when I was a kid that there are passages in the Great Pyramids of Giza that we still haven't explored/gained access to. Great spark to the imagination.

My favorite part about the second DLC is that it has my favorite boss in Dark Souls 2.
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Thanks a lot guys!!
 
O

Orochinagis

Member
Laurentius said:
What I think I loved most about the first DLC is that you get to explore a fucking pyramid. Pyramids have always fascinated me, especially after I learned when I was a kid that there are passages in the Great Pyramids of Giza that we still haven't explored/gained access to. Great spark to the imagination.

My favorite part about the second DLC is that it has my favorite boss in Dark Souls 2.
Click to expand...

I got overexcited to see some maya/aztec murals in the walls of the area and somewhat Incan statues before reaching the first bonfire
 
B

BrokenIcarus

Member
Should I level up ADP? I feel like everyone keeps hitting right through my rolls, to the point where blocking is a million times more effective, which is sad, because it's such a different and more boring style of play :(

I'm also kind of confused how the infusions work, If I have a fire weapon does it still have normal scaling? Because it seems the overall attack rating doesn't really go up all that much. I hit the soft cap on END and VIT and VGR. Do I go for Strength and DEX next on a melee build?
Man I don't know how to feel about all this. Seems like Dark and Demons were much easier in that regard :/
 
L

Laurentius

Member
BrokenIcarus said:
Should I level up ADP? I feel like everyone keeps hitting right through my rolls, to the point where blocking is a million times more effective, which is sad, because it's such a different and more boring style of play :(

I'm also kind of confused how the infusions work, If I have a fire weapon does it still have normal scaling? Because it seems the overall attack rating doesn't really go up all that much. I hit the soft cap on END and VIT and VGR. Do I go for Strength and DEX next on a melee build?
Man I don't know how to feel about all this. Seems like Dark and Demons were much easier in that regard :/
Click to expand...

Yes, Adaptability is very important. Upping your Adaptability increases your Agility which gives you more iframes while rolling. Helps a lot.

I never infuse, so I can't give much help there.
 
O

Orochinagis

Member
Laurentius said:
Oh man, this is brilliant:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9mfbhLySdU&list=UUTJInu-7PDDsWA26xcWW6KA

(There are English subtitles.)

EDIT: Watching some of his other stuff, and holy shit, how have I never seen any of this before?
Click to expand...

Oh lol, Tarkus hahahahaha

BrokenIcarus said:
Should I level up ADP? I feel like everyone keeps hitting right through my rolls, to the point where blocking is a million times more effective, which is sad, because it's such a different and more boring style of play :(

I'm also kind of confused how the infusions work, If I have a fire weapon does it still have normal scaling? Because it seems the overall attack rating doesn't really go up all that much. I hit the soft cap on END and VIT and VGR. Do I go for Strength and DEX next on a melee build?
Man I don't know how to feel about all this. Seems like Dark and Demons were much easier in that regard :/
Click to expand...

Adaptability is for reacting faster and use things faster while Dex and Attunement are more for faster rolling and faster frame in the rolling animation.

Yes, you have to raise INT and Faith to get more elemental damage for the infusion, it also lower the physical damage of the default damage to get the elemental infusion.
 
M

Mistel

Banned
BrokenIcarus said:
Should I level up ADP? I feel like everyone keeps hitting right through my rolls, to the point where blocking is a million times more effective, which is sad, because it's such a different and more boring style of play :(

I'm also kind of confused how the infusions work, If I have a fire weapon does it still have normal scaling? Because it seems the overall attack rating doesn't really go up all that much. I hit the soft cap on END and VIT and VGR. Do I go for Strength and DEX next on a melee build?
Man I don't know how to feel about all this. Seems like Dark and Demons were much easier in that regard :/
Click to expand...
Answers:
  • You should raise ADP till you get 110 agility it will give you more I frames so you don't get hit during rolls. Or you could use a shield as long as you're careful about being guard broken.
  • Infusions in this game still have normal scaling but it is reduced compared to an un infusued weapon.
  • DEX is a waste if you're not going quality or pure DEX STR has better returns for investment.
 
L

Laurentius

Member
Orochinagis said:
Adaptability is for reacting faster and use things faster while Dex and Attunement are more for faster rolling and faster frame in the rolling animation.

Yes, you have to raise INT and Faith to get more elemental damage for the infusion, it also lower the physical damage of the default damage to get the elemental infusion.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure Dex has no affect on Agility. Attunement raises it in a minor way. Adaptability is still the best way to level up Agility.
 
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